Bleach death hax revisions.

[Shiroiyo]

From our Death Manipulation page

"It is important to note that just causing death via other abilities or indirect means (such as soul destruction, physical damage, deconstruction etc.) in itself does not qualify for Death Manipulation unless it is specified or portrayed to be a direct inducement of death in its targets with these being aftereffects of that."

Basically:

Using some random hax that kills the victim with its effects = does not qualify for this power.

Using death manipulation first and then causing other effects as a result of it = qualifies.

We will see what qualifies and what doesn't in the Bleach verse with these standards.

Hollow Corruption

Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])

Very straightforward, nothing in the scan says anything about inducing direct death, it is simply that hollows are poisonous to quincies and this poison affects their soul and because of that they die of soul poisoning. If I have poison in real life and I use it to kill someone, do I have death hax in real life too!?

As Nodt/The Fear

Passive Fear Manipulation, Perception Manipulation and Limited Death Manipulation (Äs Nödt's "The Fear" can induce a strong sense of fear, even at an instinctive level. The Fear creates true and causeless fear in his opponent. The Fear can manipulate fear on such a level that it causes his victim to die, Hallucinations resulting from Äs Nödt's fear distort his victims' perceptions. While fighting Nödt, Byakuya lost many of his battle senses, but this effect can be negated through sheer willpower alone[2])

This one is a bit tricky as Death Hax is listed as limited. Even so, his targets are being scared to death, something that is rare but possible in real life. Besides, hax that cause death ---> death of the target ≠ death hax on this wiki, and the standards I cited at the beginning of the thread will probably disqualify it anyway.

If this revision gets accepted, the manipulation/resistance of death hax coming from these justifications will be removed from the profiles/pages.

 

[KazuiK]

In fact the point about Hollow refers to soul suicide, Hollows themselves are a poison to Quincy due to their lack of antibodies to prevent soul suicide. It is not a poison that kills.

 

[KazuiK]

Also, wait for the review to be accepted before proposing anything.

 

[Shiroiyo]

In fact the point about Hollow refers to soul suicide, Hollows themselves are a poison to Quincy due to their lack of antibodies to prevent soul suicide. It is not a poison that kills.

Uhmn?

Where did you get that from? I have just re-read the scans and I didn't see anything about suicide there, And even if it did, it probably wouldn't be relevant because the effects would still be attributed to the poison, which would disqualify death hax.

 

[Deidalius]

This seems pretty straight forward, I agree with OP.

 

[Bastolan27]

What

Uhmn?

Where did you get that from? I have just re-read the scans and I didn't see anything about suicide there, And even if it did, it probably wouldn't be relevant because the effects would still be attributed to the poison, which would disqualify death hax.

You are mixing up Soul Suicide and the Quincy weakness to Hollows. Even Shinigami can die via Soul Suicide, but due to Hollows being poisonous to Quincy, the Quincy need an active counteracting force to prevent it. Meanwhile, Shinigami can use Quincy Reishi and human Reiatsu to prevent it. Soul Suicide has nothing to do with poison; it's still a death hax.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Sounds good, but I'm open if a good counterargument comes up.

 

[Bastolan27]

I'll clarify why this is wrong

Hollow Corruption

Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])

Very straightforward, nothing in the scan says anything about inducing direct death, it is simply that hollows are poisonous to quincies and this poison affects their soul and because of that they die of soul poisoning. If I have poison in real life and I use it to kill someone, do I have death hax in real life too!?

Soul Suicide is a Death hax that kills the soul of whoever is afflicted by it, including Shinigami. However, it can be averted through a 'Vaccine' (Quincy and Human Reishi).
Hollows are poisonous to Quincy, rendering the 'Vaccine' ineffective. Quincy require an active counterforce constantly to survive.
Soul Suicide is a process that extinguishes the soul but can be prevented by a counterforce of Reishi, once per occurrence.
Quincy are particularly susceptible to Hollows, necessitating a constant active counterforce of Reishi.
Don't be misled by the term 'vaccine'; it does not refer to a poison, and 'vaccine' is used as an analogy for the counterforce of Reishi.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Soul Suicide is a Death hax that kills the soul of whoever is afflicted by it, including Shinigami. However, it can be averted through a 'Vaccine' (Quincy and Human Reishi).
Hollows are poisonous to Quincy, rendering the 'Vaccine' ineffective. Quincy require an active counterforce constantly to survive.
Soul Suicide is a process that extinguishes the soul but can be prevented by a counterforce of Reishi, once per occurrence.
Quincy are particularly susceptible to Hollows, necessitating a constant active counterforce of Reishi.
Don't be misled by the term 'vaccine'; it does not refer to a poison, and 'vaccine' is used as an analogy for the counterforce of Reishi.

In all fairness, this sounds like soul destruction/corruption/madness manipulation to me. I'm open to hearing more about it though, because Bleach haxes are brutal, and anyone who's followed the subject for years knows the verse has a long history of its haxes being ignored.

Many verses are weird with death hax. Avada Kedavra in Harry Potter is accepted as death hax, but as far as I know its nature is poorly defined, and we don't know if it works by draining life rather than inflicting death. Death hax is generally treated as inflicting death by literally imposing the state/concept of death on its target. The clearest example of death hax I know of is Ainz in Overlord, whose spells can inflict death even on inanimate objects which have no concept of death.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

I agree with op.

 

[Bastolan27]

In all fairness, this sounds like soul destruction/corruption/madness manipulation to me. I'm open to hearing more about it though, because Bleach haxes are brutal, and anyone who's followed the subject for years knows the verse has a long history of its haxes being ignored.

Many verses are weird with death hax. Avada Kedavra in Harry Potter is accepted as death hax, but as far as I know its nature is poorly defined, and we don't know if it works by draining life rather than inflicting death. Death hax is generally treated as inflicting death by literally imposing the state/concept of death on its target. The clearest example of death hax I know of is Ainz in Overlord, whose spells can inflict death even on inanimate objects which have no concept of death.

It's not just Soul Destruction. Remember that in Bleach, Konpaku (Soul bodies) encompass Body, Mind, and Soul. This process causes death, and as a byproduct, the Mind, Soul, and Body cease to exist. If it were solely soul destruction, Masaki's physical body wouldn't have a hollow hole in it. The corruption makes the Konpaku kill itself.

It is important to note that just causing death via other abilities or indirect means (such as soul destruction, physical damage, deconstruction etc.) in itself does not qualify for Death Manipulation unless it is specified or portrayed to be a direct inducement of death in its targets with these being aftereffects of that.

It goes like this: Corruption leads to Death Inducement, destroying Soul, Mind, and Body, not the other way around.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's not just Soul Destruction. Remember that in Bleach, Konpaku (Soul bodies) encompass Body, Mind, and Soul. This process causes death, and as a byproduct, the Mind, Soul, and Body cease to exist. If it were solely soul destruction, Masaki's physical body wouldn't have a hollow hole in it. The corruption makes the Konpaku kill itself.

Okay, the effect on the body is an interesting point. Although Ichigo has turned up injured at school after injuries to his soul form, suggesting that the attacks generally effect the body through the soul.

It goes like this: Corruption leads to Death Inducement, destroying Soul, Mind, and Body, not the other way around.

I'm still not sure how that equates to death hax though. If corruption causes your body, mind and soul to tear themselves apart, that's corruption, soul hax, mind hax, and probably deconstruction via those effects, but can you help me understand how it requires death hax?

Also, if Quincies are only so vulnerable due to being the only souls that lack the natural resistance (obviously a reference to their insistence on breeding only with other Quincies, hence why Ichigo despite being half Quincy has resistance to hollowfication coming out of his ears), wouldn't it follow that that's a unique resistance to most human and Shinigami souls in Bleach rather than something that characters from outside the verse would naturally possess?

 

[Bastolan27]

Okay, the effect on the body is an interesting point. Although Ichigo has turned up injured at school after injuries to his soul form, suggesting that the attacks generally effect the body through the soul.

I'm still not sure how that equates to death hax though. If corruption causes your body, mind and soul to tear themselves apart, that's corruption, soul hax, mind hax, and probably deconstruction via those effects, but can you help me understand how it requires death hax?

Death Manipulation is the ability to directly induce death in beings, objects or even concepts via supernatural means. This can manifest as the inexplicable death of an individual, the direct cessation of biological functions, dispersal of life force and more, being able to affect anything from plant and animal life to possibly even abstract forces and concepts.

When the Sternritter were hit with Hollow reiatsu, their biological functions started to cease (BG9), and their spiritual pressure/life force diminished. It literally has all the same symptoms as what Death Hax is stated to have in the wiki.

 

[Random-Helper323]

When the Sternritter were hit with Hollow reiatsu, their biological functions started to cease (BG9), and their spiritual pressure/life force diminished. It literally has all the same symptoms as what Death Hax is stated to have in the wiki.

Ah, I see they've expanded it to include removal of life force, even though that's kind of life manipulation rather than strictly being death hax.

Sadly, I think that definition is weird. I think I'll stand as undecided on this one.

 

[Bastolan27]

Ah, I see they've expanded it to include removal of life force, even though that's kind of life manipulation rather than strictly being death hax.

Sadly, I think that definition is weird. I think I'll stand as undecided on this one.

It's both; just look at Yhwach's profile.

• Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Resurrection, Energy Projection, Power Bestowal, Power Absorption (Type 3 and 8), Immortality and Regeneration Negation (Up to Mid-Godly; The Auswählen is an ability that redistributes the lives and powers of Quincy Yhwach deems useless to himself or other Quincy who need it, enhancing their powers. Yhwach creates several beams of energy from his hands and these beams are shot towards the targeted Quincy, stripping them of their life force. Those who lose their life force and powers at the hands of this ability instantly die. Yhwach can even use this power to bring dead Quincy back to life.[20] The Auswälen could even kill Quincy such as Gerard Valkyrie[21])

Life manipulation involves manipulating life force, and this ability can be employed to cause death. If life manipulation is used to induce death, it would also fall under the category of death manipulation, as the act of inducing death is achieved through the removal or manipulation of life force.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree with Bastolan.
Op arguments are pretty ridiculous

 

[PrinceofPein]

Agree with the OP

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Neutral with Hollow Corruption
Agree with As Nodt/The Fear

I mean
from the Fear Manipulation page itself

Moreover, the ability can also be used to force a target to cause great harm to themselves, by making them to scared to live, or even scarring them to death.

potent enough fear hax can kill someone
so yeah, limited death manipulation would be redundant
and ig the same thing can be said with perception manipulation but this thread is just about death manip, so eh

 

[Bastolan27]

By the way, I agree regarding As Nodt, but I don't agree about Hollow corruption/Soul Suicide.

Hollow Corruption

Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])

Very straightforward, nothing in the scan says anything about inducing direct death, it is simply that hollows are poisonous to quincies and this poison affects their soul and because of that they die of soul poisoning. If I have poison in real life and I use it to kill someone, do I have death hax in real life too!?

This claim is simply not accurate and reflects a misunderstanding of the story. Soul suicide is not the same as poison, and it doesn't exclusively affect Quincy. As I mentioned earlier, any type of soul can succumb to soul suicide.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Neutral with Hollow Corruption
Agree with As Nodt/The Fear

I mean
from the Fear Manipulation page itself

potent enough fear hax can kill someone
so yeah, limited death manipulation would be redundant
and ig the same thing can be said with perception manipulation but this thread is just about death manip, so eh

Scaring someone to death is not death manipulation. It is me saying X should "die" and X dies.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

and that is something I agree with...
you know
removal for death hax