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Characters/verses you hated to debate the most?

RinneItachi said:
It was stated many times in the same battle by several different characters that their clashes would destroy the universe, with Elder Kai elaborating that literally nothing would remain, and that both Goku and even Beerus would inevitably die from the aftermath. A much more toned down version of this was also seen in the manga, of course. Even after that we get other universe level statements, characters affecting the World of Void (although it being infinite is a controversial topic still), as well as the Gods of Destruction being consistently, repeatedly stated as capable of destroying entire universes.

And to top it all off, while it could still be said even then that the amount of evidence for a universal Goku or higher is limited, that doesn't change the fact that there is no relevant counter evidence against it, let alone enough to actually say that it's untrue.
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Yet he'll die by a planet explosion, it's kinda hard for me to believe goku's a universe buster because he's basically a character filled with so many hollow statements. He never does that universal level feat ever again and heck against his fight against broly he didn't even seem like a universe buster same against hit and goku black.
 
Animegod12345 said:
Yet he'll die by a planet explosion, it's kinda hard for me to believe goku's a universe buster because he's basically a character filled with so many hollow statements. He never does that universal level feat ever again and heck against his fight against broly he didn't even seem like a universe buster same against hit and goku black.
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Because fiction ignores AOE a lot?
 
Animegod12345 said:
Yet he'll die by a planet explosion, it's kinda hard for me to believe goku's a universe buster because he's basically a character filled with so many hollow statements. He never does that universal level feat ever again and heck against his fight against broly he didn't even seem like a universe buster same against hit and goku black.
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If I’m gonna be honest while I do think Goku is a universe buster
Tune someone in to watch the entire Universe 6 Tournament arc up till the TOP without knowledge of the prior feats they’ll probably think Goku is like Multi City Block level at best until the TOP.
But this can be applied to a lot of fiction anyway (Most building level characters probably just do like 9-A feats), its just that since DB characters are universe level them only busting buildings inspite of Ki Control feels wack.
 
Animegod12345 said:
Yet he'll die by a planet explosion, it's kinda hard for me to believe goku's a universe buster because he's basically a character filled with so many hollow statements. He never does that universal level feat ever again and heck against his fight against broly he didn't even seem like a universe buster same against hit and goku black.
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Goku dies to a planet bust because he can't survive in Space, not because he's too weak
 
Animegod12345 said:
I know that but were was it said they can tank the planet explosion? That what was I talking about.
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DB cast are able to destroy Planets since the days of Saiyan Saga Vegeta, as his Galick Gun would've destroyed the planet had it not being stopped

First form Frieza casually destroyed Planet Vegeta with a finger

Cell would've obliterated the Solar System if he wasn't stopped by Gohan

Majin Buu casually destroys planets and stars for fun

And this is just a few examples
 
sanicspood said:
also i hate debating one punch man. I'm tired of saitama suckers saying "oh he's a gag" "oh he's unbeatable" smh
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That comes from individuals who've never once read OPM in full and fail to grasp that OPM tries to tell a genuine story with moments of comedic fluff.
If they want an actual gag manga, something like Dr Slump or BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBoBo
 
I don't find any trouble debating verses like One Punch Man, because most of the people I hang around are above the beliefs that "Saitama is a gag character and thus, is all-powerful", ignoring the fact that Saitama does not make up 100% of One Punch Man debates. My Hero Academia, while a bit convoluted in regards to the god-tiers, isn't too much of a bore to powerscale and debate. And, the other verses I care about are relatively clean.

And then there are Dragon Ball and Naruto.
 
You know wasn't it explicitly stated by Frieza during his fight with Ssj Goku that while he can breath in space, Saiyans like Goku couldn't? So it's not like Goku can't tank planet level attacks, he's been doing so since after the Saiyan Saga, it's just that he relies on oxygen
 
its also verbatim stated by goku that to freeza that "u can destroy an entire planet, but u cant destroy little ol me" as he tanks a laser to the face or sum like that
 
The Super manga also has Vegeta point out to Goku that Saiyans cannot survive in space when he tries to chase Moro outside the planet.
 
Animegod12345 said:
People always use the lack of oxygen thing when if anything that's never stated.
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It's literally directly mentioned that Frieza will live and not Vegeta specifically because Frieza can live in space, not because he's durable enough to tank a planet exploding and Vegeta isn't. Furthermore, Frieza was so exhausted and beaten that Vegeta would likely be able to beat him in just his base form by the end of their fight, yet Frieza can not only survive the planet being destroyed, but he was the one who destroyed it to begin with even in such a weakened state, and he did so in nearly an instant with no visible effort. Yet you're arguing that Vegeta died to the planet exploding? That's completely illogical.
 
@Animegod12345 And about your argument overall, basically you're saying that because they don't "look" like universe busters that means they aren't? Rather, saying that because they don't have outwardly consistent, repeated, and direct evidence that they're universe level means they aren't? Because that's not how it works. If you want to debunk something, you have to actually show counter evidence. No evidence doesn't debunk a relatively small but still existent amount of actual evidence.

And if you're gonna try to argue about how Ki blasts aren't destroying galaxies left and right, 1. It's been established both in and out of series that characters in Dragon Ball can control the AoE of their attacks to limit the destruction they would cause to a certain point. 2. It wouldn't make sense narratively speaking for Toriyama to have Goku destroy half the universe on accident with a Kamehameha, that doesn't mean Goku isn't at those levels of power. Hell, it's not common at all for universe level characters to actually show consistent feats on that level, anyways. It's not just a Dragon Ball thing.
 
I'm actually pretty sure Vegeta himself said something about that way back in the Android Saga. I remember a manga panel where he says that if he wasn't limiting the destruction of his own power, the planet would already be gone or something.
 
RinneItachi said:
It's literally directly mentioned that Frieza will live and not Vegeta specifically because Frieza can live in space, not because he's durable enough to tank a planet exploding and Vegeta isn't. Furthermore, Frieza was so exhausted and beaten that Vegeta would likely be able to beat him in just his base form by the end of their fight, yet Frieza can not only survive the planet being destroyed, but he was the one who destroyed it to begin with even in such a weakened state, and he did so in nearly an instant with no visible effort. Yet you're arguing that Vegeta died to the planet exploding? That's completely illogical.
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You cannot compared vegeta to freiza because they are not of the same race.
RinneItachi said:
@Animegod12345 And about your argument overall, basically you're saying that because they don't "look" like universe busters that means they aren't? Rather, saying that because they don't have outwardly consistent, repeated, and direct evidence that they're universe level means they aren't? Because that's not how it works. If you want to debunk something, you have to actually show counter evidence. No evidence doesn't debunk a relatively small but still existent amount of actual evidence.

And if you're gonna try to argue about how Ki blasts aren't destroying galaxies left and right, 1. It's been established both in and out of series that characters in Dragon Ball can control the AoE of their attacks to limit the destruction they would cause to a certain point. 2. It wouldn't make sense narratively speaking for Toriyama to have Goku destroy half the universe on accident with a Kamehameha, that doesn't mean Goku isn't at those levels of power. Hell, it's not common at all for universe level characters to actually show consistent feats on that level, anyways. It's not just a Dragon Ball thing.
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Toriyama doesn't do it because he doesn't care enough to bother. And saying they aren't universe buster because I don't believe they are(mainly goku and vegeta) and people keep saying oh they can cantrol there AoE is a poor argument in my opinion
 
Animegod12345 said:
You cannot compared vegeta to freiza because they are not of the same race.

Toriyama doesn't do it because he doesn't care enough to bother. And saying they aren't universe buster because I don't believe they are(mainly goku and vegeta) and people keep saying oh they can cantrol there AoE is a poor argument in my opinion
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Vegeta literally has a Quote about controlling his AoE, saying that if he didn't then the Erath would've been obliterated long ago.
 
Animegod12345 said:
You cannot compared vegeta to freiza because they are not of the same race.

Toriyama doesn't do it because he doesn't care enough to bother. And saying they aren't universe buster because I don't believe they are(mainly goku and vegeta) and people keep saying oh they can cantrol there AoE is a poor argument in my opinion
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Toriyama doesn't care enough about his own extremely popular series to go ahead and make Goku do something completely random, OOC, and stupid? How is it a poor argument when it's the most logical conclusion to reach? Even Saiyan Saga characters were definitively, irrefutably, objectively planet level. Absolutely no debate. Yet later on when the characters aren't destroying planets on accident, that somehow means they're not planet level, rather than meaning they can control the AoE of their attacks? There's countless instances of above planetary characters not planet busting, but apparently, even though there's so much evidence that they're above planetary levels of power by a massive degree, you'd rather assume that it is literally all inconsistencies and won't even consider the possibility that they can simply control the AoE of their attacks instead? There's literally a mountain of planetary or above that feats and statements scattered throughout the franchise. It's clear as day. But I guess literally all of it is the biggest outlier in possibly general fiction because "xd they don't destroy planet with yellow ki blast1!"

One time, Thanos blasted Galactus and it blew him back a considerable distance. But the blast itself barely looked impressive and didn't do anything relevant to the surrounding environment. Thanos and Galactus small building level confirmed according to you?
 
Animegod12345 said:
I know about that quote I wanted to see the vegeta quote they were talking about.
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main-qimg-3ede51bb3d47eef87d5ce7fdc46de7b2_1.png


this?
 
Oh I just noticed "You cannot compared vegeta to freiza because they are not of the same race."

What? Frieza is able to survive normally fatal or at least debilitating wounds because that's how his body is structured, that doesn't mean he's more durable than someone who's tanking everything he can throw out and could one shot him at any point. Frieza also survived Namek exploding when he was cut in half, had basically no energy left whatsoever, and was blasted by Goku with so much power that Goku was fully confident he had already killed Frieza (meaning he couldn't have sensed Frieza's energy, showing how little he would've had), but despite all of that, he tanked the planet exploding. That doesn't mean Frieza has the specific superpower of surviving planetary explosions, it means planetary explosions are ******* nothing to these characters.
 
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