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Since the Supergirl revisions aren't going to start anytime soon without Greenshifter, I'm bringing this up.
Alright this is going to be painful.
Let's start with the minor stuff first, shall we?
Who the **** even watches the show at this point?
So, like a lot of people I haven't been watching the Flash in ages, so naturally his page is lacking keys for his newer seasons. I read up his wiki page a bit (so tell me if I got stuff wrong) and I also looked into some CRTs other people brought up but got forgotten here. So it looks like he went through a couple of amps ("Oliver Queen as Spectre unlocked his potential", "Speed Force restored", "brought harmony between four Forces of Nature"). The Arrowverse Wiki also claims that Flash outran a blatantly lightspeed character called Eva McCholloch. As I said I haven't been watching the show in a while so do tell me if this is accurate.
A Season 7-8 key should be added with him upscaling from his previous stats.
A few new power additions I'll just credit the original threads that brought these up.
According to ShockingShoes, Barry should have extended Intangibility/Vibration Manipulation, as well as Weapon Creation for the infamous lightsaber scene.
Jayden_Garrison made/posted a nice render for Flash's new suit that can be used, as well as proposed Attack Reflection although I'm not so sure about this one.
GFArrow proposed 5-B via Environmental Destruction for Flash being stated multiple times to be able to potentially destroy the world. Personally I'm fine with this as long as it's obviously not combat applicable.
Barry was also able to remove Reverse-Flash's speed in Season 8 so I guess that's Power Nullification.
Alright that's the easy part done
If you're not convinced go watch Madvocate's series on how inconsistent the Flash is.
The standards of this wiki is to typically take feats over statements, especially when the show has absolutely outrageous statements like "3 gigajoules is a megaton" or "Mach 7 to circle the Earth". Hence, we went with some of Barry's more high-end feats, like we tend to do on this wiki in general, that are far beyond what the show runners claim in the little statements they throw in each season on Barry's speed.
The problem? It's completely arbitrary. We just randomly decided that the speed values we currently use for Barry are the best, and disregard higher feats as outlier and lower feats as PIS. They're not the most consistent values, well nothing is really consistent in this show, so we just decided on these values for absolutely no reason.
According to the wiki's definition of an outlier, it is "an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power". Which is basically every single scene in the Flash lmao. There's really not much of a reasoning to say this feat is an outlier and that feat isn't, because you can bring up massive inconsistencies for every single feat.
Currently, we have a lot of feats especially for the earlier seasons of the Flash that we just completely dismiss as unusable while we use feats that are well above what the show claims Flash to be running at.
Post-Amp Season 1 Flash has a Sub-Relativistic feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U.../CW_Speed_Feats?commentId=4400000000001049901
Season 2 Flash has a Relativistic feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan/CW_Flash_dodges_light (see comment section on the debate on if this is true light)
Season 2 Flash also kept up with Supergirl's Heat Vision, although I don't think we consider that true light for the Arrowverse. Not sure though so just gonna put it out here.
Season 3 Flash has this nuke stopping feat although it will have to be recalculated since our wiki doesn't allow relativity to be used for time dilation calculations.
Season 4 Flash has a Massively FTL+ feat without being amped by electricity: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Unite_My_Rice/Flash_Calcs
If we do accept this solution, his speed will look something like this
High Hypersonic+ (Was able to save all people inside a derailed train), Sub-Relativistic after his amp (Outran Blackout's lightning. Kept up with the Reverse-Flash by the end of the season) | At least Relativistic (Dodged light blasts from Doctor Light), Relativistic+ after his amp (Grew four times faster with the tachyon device. After naturally increasing his speed, he could nearly keep up with Zoom, who had absorbed Barry's speed, later surpassing him) | At least Relativistic+ (Faster than before. Can keep up with Savitar by the end of the season) | Massively FTL+, higher via electricity absorption (Ran through a portal that closes in 3 picoseconds)
Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 and onwards
Anyway this solution would to use and only use numbers explicitly given or heavily implied to us by the writers.
If this is what we go with, the page will look something like this
Supersonic (Punched at Mach 1.1. Stopped a 700 mph tornado), higher after his amp (Ran over Mach 2 to travel back in time) | Supersonic+ (Ran at Mach 3.3 to defeat Trajectory), Hypersonic+ after his amp (Increased his speed 4 times with the tachyon device), higher by the end of the season (Naturally increased his speed to defeat Zoom) | At least Hypersonic+, likely far higher (Comparable to Savitar by the end of the season) | At least High Hypersonic+ (5 times faster than before), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds) | Sub-Relativistic (Ran 1/80 the speed of light), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds) | At least FTL (Blitzed Eva McCulloch), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds)
Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4-5 | Season 6 | Season 7
This still wouldn't be consistent whatsoever, but at least it's what the writers want.
Either way, no matter what we go with in the end, we will have to come up with a note under the Flash's page and maybe a discussion rule or something stating that this is what the community agreed on.
Alright this is going to be painful.
Let's start with the minor stuff first, shall we?
Season 7 and 8 keys
So, like a lot of people I haven't been watching the Flash in ages, so naturally his page is lacking keys for his newer seasons. I read up his wiki page a bit (so tell me if I got stuff wrong) and I also looked into some CRTs other people brought up but got forgotten here. So it looks like he went through a couple of amps ("Oliver Queen as Spectre unlocked his potential", "Speed Force restored", "brought harmony between four Forces of Nature"). The Arrowverse Wiki also claims that Flash outran a blatantly lightspeed character called Eva McCholloch. As I said I haven't been watching the show in a while so do tell me if this is accurate.
A Season 7-8 key should be added with him upscaling from his previous stats.
A few new power additions I'll just credit the original threads that brought these up.
According to ShockingShoes, Barry should have extended Intangibility/Vibration Manipulation, as well as Weapon Creation for the infamous lightsaber scene.
Jayden_Garrison made/posted a nice render for Flash's new suit that can be used, as well as proposed Attack Reflection although I'm not so sure about this one.
GFArrow proposed 5-B via Environmental Destruction for Flash being stated multiple times to be able to potentially destroy the world. Personally I'm fine with this as long as it's obviously not combat applicable.
Barry was also able to remove Reverse-Flash's speed in Season 8 so I guess that's Power Nullification.
Alright that's the easy part done
The Elephant in the Room
Right, the elephant in the room -- Barry's speed.Inconsistency
The Flash's speed, is well, shocker, inconsistent. It's an extremely cliched Internet joke to say that his speed is whatever the writers want it to be, but it's true. In fact, far beyond the level of most fiction. I think this is due to the nature of the show being full of filler that inherently forces the show to give Barry wildly inconsistent speed levels.If you're not convinced go watch Madvocate's series on how inconsistent the Flash is.
What we've done in the past
What we've done in the past is basically, uh, nothing at all.The standards of this wiki is to typically take feats over statements, especially when the show has absolutely outrageous statements like "3 gigajoules is a megaton" or "Mach 7 to circle the Earth". Hence, we went with some of Barry's more high-end feats, like we tend to do on this wiki in general, that are far beyond what the show runners claim in the little statements they throw in each season on Barry's speed.
The problem? It's completely arbitrary. We just randomly decided that the speed values we currently use for Barry are the best, and disregard higher feats as outlier and lower feats as PIS. They're not the most consistent values, well nothing is really consistent in this show, so we just decided on these values for absolutely no reason.
What to do
So I have a couple of proposals. I do have a preference, but i feel like a lot of people are going to call me crazy on this one. Either way, I honestly don't mind because of how inherently inconsistent this show is. As long as the community agrees on consistent standards, I'll go with it.Proposal 1: Let Madness Ensue
My first proposal is to just take Flash's highest speed showings in the show and call it a day. There are no outliers in this verse. Sounds crazy, but honestly? Given how inconsistent CW Flash is inherently anyway, this is the one I prefer, although I will understand if people think this is dumb, since as a calc boi I'm obviously very biased because I enjoy doing some math and calculating the most impressive feats a character have.According to the wiki's definition of an outlier, it is "an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power". Which is basically every single scene in the Flash lmao. There's really not much of a reasoning to say this feat is an outlier and that feat isn't, because you can bring up massive inconsistencies for every single feat.
Currently, we have a lot of feats especially for the earlier seasons of the Flash that we just completely dismiss as unusable while we use feats that are well above what the show claims Flash to be running at.
Post-Amp Season 1 Flash has a Sub-Relativistic feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U.../CW_Speed_Feats?commentId=4400000000001049901
Season 2 Flash has a Relativistic feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan/CW_Flash_dodges_light (see comment section on the debate on if this is true light)
Season 2 Flash also kept up with Supergirl's Heat Vision, although I don't think we consider that true light for the Arrowverse. Not sure though so just gonna put it out here.
Season 3 Flash has this nuke stopping feat although it will have to be recalculated since our wiki doesn't allow relativity to be used for time dilation calculations.
Season 4 Flash has a Massively FTL+ feat without being amped by electricity: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Unite_My_Rice/Flash_Calcs
If we do accept this solution, his speed will look something like this
High Hypersonic+ (Was able to save all people inside a derailed train), Sub-Relativistic after his amp (Outran Blackout's lightning. Kept up with the Reverse-Flash by the end of the season) | At least Relativistic (Dodged light blasts from Doctor Light), Relativistic+ after his amp (Grew four times faster with the tachyon device. After naturally increasing his speed, he could nearly keep up with Zoom, who had absorbed Barry's speed, later surpassing him) | At least Relativistic+ (Faster than before. Can keep up with Savitar by the end of the season) | Massively FTL+, higher via electricity absorption (Ran through a portal that closes in 3 picoseconds)
Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 and onwards
Proposal 2: Word of God
For those who think I'm crazy suggesting the first proposal, this is my alternate proposal. Given how inconsistent the Flash's showings are, we should just use whatever shitty numbers the writers throws at us, because well that's what the writers claim him to be at. I have a feeling this will be the most popular one, although I think it's kinda stupid since we don't use handbook numbers for Marvel either.Anyway this solution would to use and only use numbers explicitly given or heavily implied to us by the writers.
If this is what we go with, the page will look something like this
Supersonic (Punched at Mach 1.1. Stopped a 700 mph tornado), higher after his amp (Ran over Mach 2 to travel back in time) | Supersonic+ (Ran at Mach 3.3 to defeat Trajectory), Hypersonic+ after his amp (Increased his speed 4 times with the tachyon device), higher by the end of the season (Naturally increased his speed to defeat Zoom) | At least Hypersonic+, likely far higher (Comparable to Savitar by the end of the season) | At least High Hypersonic+ (5 times faster than before), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds) | Sub-Relativistic (Ran 1/80 the speed of light), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds) | At least FTL (Blitzed Eva McCulloch), Massively FTL+ when amped with electricity (Can run through a breach in 3 picoseconds)
Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4-5 | Season 6 | Season 7
This still wouldn't be consistent whatsoever, but at least it's what the writers want.
Proposal 3: Why not both?
I mean we could make a special case out of this character and have both sets of power levels, the statements and the feats listed, but I don't prefer this option as it makes the page unnecessarily convoluted.Proposal 4: Some compromise between the two
I don't know how you're going to do that, but I'm open to some middle ground between my first two proposals, but there will need to be a consistent standard on what level of feats do we cap him at, not just arbitrary feelings. I'm open to any suggestions. I don't think there's right and wrong in this case because of how inconsistent the nature of this character is, as long as the community agrees with a set of standards I'll go with it.Either way, no matter what we go with in the end, we will have to come up with a note under the Flash's page and maybe a discussion rule or something stating that this is what the community agreed on.
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