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Discouraging Ridiculous Verses/Pages

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Sera_EX

Sera_EX

She Who Dabbles in Fiction
VS Battles
Retired
6,104
5,102
Alright. Here we are again. For some reason we still have a problem - one that I'm sure is annoying most of us. We still have characters being created that have something along the lines of 10 keys/4-5 of them being 1-A or High 1-A and at least 1 key that's 0.

Okay...first of all. Are we confused here? You cannot "become" High 1-A and you CERTAINLY cannot become Tier 0.

A virtually "omnipotent" entity can sit comfortably at 1-A, High 1-B/1-B, or High 1-C. Any 10-dimensional being is essentially supreme for example. So why do we have to go full Suggs Lite and make these ridiculous characters? This is one of the reasons why Ven and I are revising our verse. It's messy, incoherent and doesn't make any cosmological sense. Doing it because Lovecraft did it, or I/O did it or whatever the case may be is not a valid reason. You wanna make ridiculous characters? Put them on Joke Battles Wiki. That's where they belong.

"But Sera my character is serious! Not some joke!"

Really? A level 3 Mary Sue or a person that is so perfect they somehow become a questionably omnipotent being is not serious. I can't take that seriously. Wanna make something good? Start off small without making extrenely or overtly hax characters for no reason. Hax is okay (duh) being extremely powerful is ok (duh)...but there's a difference between 7-A|2-B|1-C|1-A and 9-B|High 1-B|1-A|1-A|High 1-A|High 1-A|High 1-A|0...

What is this? SorA's blog? THEOMNIGOD's Penultimate Pataverse and similar nonsense? No. Of course not. This is FC/OC Vs Battles. A place where we primarily develop our characters and occasionally put them up against other's made by other users. We can have fun and have full creative control but my god...please do NOT turn this site into a home for "Suggs Lite" or even worse "Suggs 2.0" verses. Enough is enough.


Please FC/OC community. I know you're there. Tell me your concerns/questions/comments/thoughts below.
 
I agree, some profiles I've seen are laughable. No offence to anyone, but we seriously don't want to make this site suggs 2.0
 
I agree.

I have said it time and time again that we are regretabbly FAR too lenient on Suggs-lite characters and verses.

We need to put more limitations on things such as 1-A, High 1-A and Tier 0, or at the very least have a higher quality control, if we want to improve this website and make it grow. Too much Overpowered Omnipotent Mary Sues turn this place into a laughinstock, and push people away.

FateAlbane used to tell me how he hated the website at large because of how much stupidity it had. He felt that it was a waste of potential. And he was probably the smartest writer among us.
 
I've written fiction before. Been writting for six years. Serious writing at that. This wiki is wasted potential. Most manga/manwha publishers would not accept anything of this caliber. It's trash. I know because I've worked with them before. And I'm not trying to be mean either. We have some golden gems like Starcross but most of everything that's Tier 1 is garbage. I'm sorry, again, not trying to be mean.

Ven also expressed digust that so much effort was put into complaining about his verse but all these Suggs Lites are allowed to exist. And there was nothing wrong with the Kanza Collection in my personal opinion. Don't give a damn what anyone says.

Yes Matt we need quality control. People should be allowed to make a cosmology as they please (as long as it fits with our tier system of course). But Tier 1-A and higher most certainly needs major quality control. No doubt.
 
I absolutely agree here.

We definitely need to have harsher restrictions for our 1-A and up pages. The vast majority of our 1-A and higher pages are awful and built up around a complete lack of understanding of what 1-A truly entails.

We just need to go through the Tier 1 pages, delete the ones that don't comply with our rules, and set up much stricter regulations for Tier 1 pages. Perhaps something that bars people from creating Tier 1 pages before some other pages of quality are approved.
 
Many people are following and getting influenced by some really bad pages in terms of formart, construction, and over all theme and are creating practically carbon copies of the original bad pages to make terrible pages, it seems like this has been steadily rising among the wikia to some degree.
 
The reason this type of shit grows is because we have been far too kind for years, because we never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings. I mean, this is a Fanfiction / OC wiki, and how will you say to an writer that his characters are trash, or wanked, or absurd?

Regretably, if we want to improve the wiki, we will have to act harder upon it.
 
I absolutely agree with Sera here. I got crap for "copying descriptions" (subtle parts, not full details). Yet all this crap flies by and no one gives a flying ****? That hurts. Not bragging but I've been writing since I was 14. Been doing this for ten years. I used to make the same OP Suggs Lite crap back then as a kid but as I matured I learned from those mistakes. FateAlbane is an example of someone who truly aspired to be a writer. He calls me his senpai but he's inspired me far more than I've inspired him.

Now, Sera has transformed our verse into some FAR superior despite being downgraded. All of this "multiple High 1-A" keys and "absolute hax" nonsense needs to stop.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The reason this type of shit grows is because we have been far too kind for years, because we never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings. I mean, this is a Fanfiction / OC wiki, and how will you say to an writer that his characters are trash, or wanked, or absurd?

Regretably, if we want to improve the wiki, we will have to act harder upon it.
Click to expand...
That's what publishers do. If you send Shueisha something that's shit...they will tell you it's shit. That's how you improve the hard way. Or give up entirely.
 
Exactly. I made some crappy student films back in Art School my freshman year. You wanna know what they told me? "This is absolute garbage. Do better next time."

Dead serious.
 
"Best verse" refers to characters and how they are developed. You're right about the revisions, I'm just saying for me it was never about power. I just like Prom's style of characters.
 
This is an example. Now allow me to speak freely, this is horrendous. I mean no disrespect or insults towards the maker of this profile but yes, this page is ridiculous.

Let's go down the list shall we?

1. Too many keys

2. High 1-A with prep (what in the Blue Hell?)

3. Jumps from High 1-A to 0

4. At least High 1-A

5. At least High 1-A with weapons (...excuse me?)

6. This is the MAIN protagonist

7. Four-five 1-A keys. All which said "with weapons or prep"

8. WAY too many powers/abilities

9. "Ultipotence" (let's please not allow nonsense powers....)

10. Pataphysics Manipulation (refer to no. 9)

11. Metapotence (refer to no. 9)

12. Inverse Omnipotence (refer to no 9-oh come on! What the hell is "inverse omnipotence!?)

13. True Infinity speed (that's not even real)

I could go on...trust me.

This is one of the more extreme examples but this is way too much.
 
Yeah, that page is ridiculous.

I'll delete it, and the other pages made by that user. They've been difficult as well, so a block may be in order.
 
To be quite honest? This is kind of one of the reasons i stayed away from here and occupied myself over at VSBW.

Aside from having had a load of writers block (up until now thanks to getting into fanfic writing again and in a much better light and feeling than before when i first did it), another was due to how i keep coming on here to see more and more Tier 1's that end up being too uninteresting for me to read about. Not that they are bad, it's just that i find them being too focused for how powerful they are rather than how interesting they can be. Some or so can be of that, probably. But others i've seen every now and then, not so much.

Anyways, this is the SAME kind of issue that i keep hearing and hearing, seeing and seeing on and having to address it time and time again since i joined for these last two years on the wikia network here. After having to go through some BS and being more busy with life for once along with characters such as this keep being made for whatever reason, i just ******* gave up on dealing with it due to how horrendous people can be on here with this kind of stuff.

Heck if anything, this is another reason why i stay away from these kinds of tiers when it comes to my verse. I want it to be powerful AND interesting for people to read about. Not be some OP, broken AF ***** that people will be disgusted about in seeing.

I mean, this is coming from someone who's not only the head bureaucrat of this place, but also someone whose done SO MUCH WORK for almost 2 straight years to try and make this wikia creative and interesting. And though it still is, i still get stuff like this on here that i'm just so out of it than i was unlike before. Only coming back on here to do things like revising my OC's (again...) and responding to messages that may need my help here or something idek.

Anyways, and this will be the last time i will even so much as look at this, i agree with doing YET ANOTHER look at our Tier 1's and deleting the ones who break the wikias standards here.

That's all i'm gonna say here. If you guys need anything deleted, Prom here can do it if needed along with Dragonmaster when/if he sees this over here.
 
If you want to make insane profiles with people becoming 0 go do it on joke battles. While this is basically fan fiction, it still should be taken seriously in scaling power.
 
"Reincarnation" is the process of a soul or spirit of sorts being cycled into a new body. Normally after death. Tier 0s don't reincarnate. Tier 0s can "incarnate", "create avatars/shadows" or similar but these are normally not ranked as having the same level of power as the entity they originate from. This includes Tenchi Masaki (avatar of "Kami Tenchi") and Randolph Carter (avatar of Yog Sothoth).
 
Here lies the problem. They do not necessarily die... Rather make an human incarnation and have their power be in inherited fully by said incarnation. Tier 0's obviously can't die. Even if they wanted to. I know what your talking about Venom. My point above still stands. I never intended them to die, rather be incarnated into an human lifeforms, and of course lose their position, but not their power. Does that make sense ? It's an concept not used before, as with all my characters here that are tier 0's ( Hitomi & Matthew ) have concepts not explored in fiction . That is simply just one of them.
 
I suppose. Not saying it's wrong or anything. Tier 0s are actually extremely rare. The second you make a Tier 0 and have it do something, one little mistake and easily disqualify it from being Tier 0. Back in the Kanza Collection I already knew this, but I had a complex problem. I tried to make a character be human and tier 0 at the same time. That just doesn't work, regardless of how I tried to splice it. The question would always arise. Such characters are made to be vague. The Law of Identity is Tier 0 but many still argue for High 1-A and in any case, it's a good example of what I was trying to do, but it just didn't work in the end. This is why I remade it into my new verse, I'm not doing a Tier 0 or High 1-A anymore, they are impossible to write fluently on a professional level. That's why so far, on VSBW, we only have like 9 Tier 0s. And every single one of them are incredibly vague, mysterious beings because they are fully transcendent inside and out and cannot be portrayed otherwise. Sometimes you can't help it, I cannot make a weak verse, I just can't. There has to be a multiverse in anything I do. But I've been writing and making characters for 10 years. I can comfortably look back at myself a few years ago and say "why the hell was I trying to make Suggs lite and pushing it off as being intelligent?" That's exactly what Suggs does. Write shit and tries to claim it's genius.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your ideas Seed. I said it before, and I'll say it again, you at least have interesting ideas. It's just not everyone is like you. That other guy (or gal) that made the page Sera linked? It was god awful. Uses stupid made up powers from Powerlisting and various people who made Tier 1 pages went off the deep end and made terrible content themselves so even our 1-A pages are bad. Now we have to reap what we sow.
 
I agree with this.

Honestly, I have not really been as active as I should here. I have popped in here and there, make a file for one of my works and left. Honestly, I feel as though my verse is kinda to blame when it comes to this tier 1 mess. I don't really know your opinions on my verses tier 1's as a whole(would love some honest opinions), but since my verse is full of them (Yuracion Absolon and Sacred Heir only really) have tons of 1-A's. However, I have been trying to at least make my characters interesting and fun(I have some character who need more added to their summaries). Of course I haven't even made any new tier 1 characters in a while as I've been working on weaker verses. I've also have started a cosmology blog explaining the verse as a whole. But that's enough about me personally. How I feel about the points you guys brought up.

Why are we even getting characters who get so overpowered that they randomly become omnipotent? These characters as Sera said could be in any of the other tier 1 stats. While I really don't care for Seeds pages and honestly they usually end up disobeying the system, he at least tries to make his characters interesting. Doesn't excuse him of the tiering issue, but at least he tries. We shouldn't be getting made up terms for our pages.

I have created a thread for reporting bad pages so if you see anything report it there.

I have kinda just skimmed through and honestly this has given me an idea for a thread that would be useful for writers here.
 
@Venom

Wow do I know how you feel. I had to make the Unawareness weakness for Matthew to make sure in my works she did not do anything to contradict her powers. And I had to make an in verse explanation and TWO BLOGS ( One of them is here on fc/oc ) explaining how she works in order to gets so many off my back about it. Jeez... Anyways, I appreciate your kind words. I will say this, you and Sera are my inspiration for The Crying Child , so... Words cannot describe how appreciatice i am. I completely agree about stopping making tier 1's and tier 0's. Matthew & Hitomi are it , I am done. No more confusing ideas. I already have enough as it is. And I agree, making a weak verse is hard ( ESPECIALLY for me. Caulli and Sci-Twi ere suppose to be JUST 2-C, but I got so out of control with it... ;__; ) .

@Dragon

Thanks. If anything, that coming from you is enough to make me want to hug you . However, I do not know how you will take that, so I will leave that alone.
 
I have nothing else to say other than Thank you, I am seriously getting tired of people putting High 1-A characters on here and Literally Jokes of Characters called Tier 0, it's getting ridiculous and needs to be calmed the damn down because this is itself becoming a joke, fast. (Also nice terms like "Level 3 Mary sue" Same terminology I use Much Love, hop you come through in your endeavour.)
 
It's a good thing I try to follow the guidelines as closely as possible when making a page. Who knew my pathological need for guidance would someday prove useful.
 
Wow.

Nice thread, highlighting/tackling one of the single biggest problems of FC/OC VS Battles wiki since its inception (well, the other was Goku/Superman clone characters, which are thankfully lesser nowadays).

Agree with this thread a LOT. I honestly have no idea why people feel this inexplicable need to create horrendously powerful characters, with a rubbish story.

Plot, character development, themes are far more important for a narrative, instead of "winning VS fights" against other characters. Heck, it's far more interesting to see regular Tier 7/8/9 characters duke it out instead of two Tier 1 characters, a fight which ALWAYS has one of two conclusions: (1) God-stomp (2) Inconclusive; -__-

Another good point made in this thread is the MORONIC key system. Sure, characters have differing levels of power throughout the story (maybe a couple of tiers), but if a character's key has enough versions to put combined keys of extremely long-running characters like Goku and Naruto to shame, something's going terribly wrong.

I cannot stress this enough: Tiers are NOT akin to transformations. Transformations which boost more than a couple of Tiers is generally lazy or terrible writing.

In any case, I am glad this problem is finally being addressed. Hope to see strong action by both the staff and the community, in order to improve quality of this wiki.
 
Wow Kav. The only time i see you around here is to point out flaws here in the wikia . This is not to undermine your influence however... I agree about the changes though... and agree with your points.
 
I apologize if it seems that I only seem to want to criticize this wiki, Seed, but quite frankly, I'm not the one who started this thread.

I realize my position here is that of a consultant, which is why I'm not here to "influence" things. I'm content to let this community grow independently, and merely provide input from time to time.

This thread in particular has been created by a fellow member of this community, not by me. The members of this community are the ones tackling the issue, and to be frank, I agree with their suggestions, which is why I agreed with their view-point.

That said, do not, for a second, think that I am blind to the progress of this wiki either. As I mentioned in my previous post, the number of horrendous Goku/Superman amalgamations has decreased significantly, and the quality of articles has improved tremendously. Not to mention, this wiki has developed an active community which is not afraid to take on prevalent issues and improve the wiki further.
 
No it is alright. I did not say you were criticizing. You have done nothing but help this wikia. I am actually happy that you said you like how the wikia has prospered. We hope to live to your expectations, Kav.
 
Just a minor user here who's procrastinated from making profiles in a while, but I agree with most of whats been said here. From the examples I've seen of frankly absurd tier 1 and above profiles, I think something should be done about them.
 
I will say what I said from the last time we had this conversation.

You can make as many 1-A's or other Tier 1's as you want. Heck, regardless of what others say I have lots of them and will continue to have them. Now sad part is I haven't posted a story here. So, my characters at the moment have very short descriptions, shorter than what I like. (Actually working on fixing that now, it's just that editing a ton of stuff at once is kinda tiresome).

Regardless, the point is that you have creative freedom. However, when every character you make is a Tier 1, there's a problem. I have 2 verses out of like 9 filled with tier 1's. Everything else is tier 2 and below. I've reserved 2 verses that I can just go balls to the wall nuts when it came to power. However, I also value characters when it comes to my works. Good characters can carry a story. Great characters can make everything irrelevant. I don't hear verses like SMT, Digimon or Masadaverse being called "Overpowered Pieces of Shit" for 2 very good reasons.

1) The characters are engaging and fun. They also tie you in and make you want. You could say "But this personality trope has been used to death". We it's not the trope you are looking for, it is how you use said trope and how you build upon it. No character is original contrary to popular believe. Nothing's original under the sun. Make the readers or players(in my case) want to see how the characters end up and interact. Personally, this is the most important thing to a series. Even moreso than plot.

2) The plot is engaging. The plot is still very important. However, you don't have to make the plot super complex. Even for a story with 1-A's the plot does not have to be the most complex of plots. For me a simple "Protect Existence" plot is enough. It's what happens in between the beginning and end that details a good plot.

What I'm saying is, you can make whatever you want. But this is not the way to go. Build up your characters. As I will be doing the same.
 
Thank you Kavpeny and Dragon. I also agree with your points. When Ven told me Cross and Prom have a wiki for building your characters I was impressed. This place can help aspiring creators actually become something if they so choose and come together with other amatuer fanfiction or original writers. Yes it's still a vs wiki, but just like VSBW is about indexing first and vs matches second, thus should be the same for FC/OC. And again, if you want to make absurd characters, we have a sister wiki called Joke Battles (JBW) which uses the same system (mostly).

Obviously you can make as many Tier 1s as you want. But why? You want to make horrendously overpowered characters so no one can beat your verse? That's Lionel Suggs mentality. I couldn't give a damn if my characters can be beaten by anyone else's, that's the engaging part of vs debating. The debates/arguments.

The creators of the Cthulhu Mythos, Demonbane, Dies Irae, I/O, Seinarukana, Super Robot Wars, Golovachev, Soushin Shoujo, etc. do not care about power. The concepts they explore in their series are what boosts them to the highest tier of power and they (most of them) are valued for their stories and/or characters. So that needs to be understood - most (not all) professional high tier verse creators don't care if their characters are the strongest things in fiction. Jin Haganeya said so on Twitter to Antvasima during a little VSBW incident.
 
Agreed. My character actually have a reason to be where they are at. (I have a cosmology and everything) However, people worry to much about having their characters defeated. People have characters with an ungodly amount of abilities that basically turns said characters into Gary/Mary Sues. This is on top of giving them no character. When it comes to abilities, give them something that makes them unique. It is okay for characters to share some powers. But at the same time, for EVERY character to be filled to the brim with every single ability in the is too much. It makes it seem as though I'm looking at the exact same character all over again...
 
'Premnios . I believe this can serve as a REAAALY good example'

Where exactly do i begin with this ?

- Lack of organization.

- There is creativity here , but not that much of it.

- Having so many omnipotents in one verse.

- Unless i am mistaken, the lack of detail required to be even tier 1 is missing here.

- 0, definitely FAR HIGHER ?! ...! NONE of my characters here have joke-tiers this ridiculous here .

Don't get me wrong. The idea is good, but is executed not so well. I recommend we let this person know that the profile is in the need of tidying up.
 
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