Dragon Ball: KI Manipulation P&A Page

[Greenshifter]

Disagree with Social Influencing, as it is supposed to be changing someone’s mind through non-supernatural methods iirc. Fear and Paralysis Inducement should be used instead.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Disagree with Social Influencing, as it is supposed to be changing someone’s mind through non-supernatural methods iirc. Fear and Paralysis Inducement should be used instead.

I mean, the supernatural part is the lad that senses their power and gets scared, not really their power itself

 

[Greenshifter]

not really their power itself

It's done through ki, which is supernatural.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It's done through ki, which is supernatural.

It wouldn't count as Fear Manip either way

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

 

[Greenshifter]

It wouldn't count as Fear Manip either way

Man they can't even get close to their opponent if their ki is too weak, it's clearly a supernatural thing and not just "wow this guy is strong".

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Man they can't even get close to their opponent if their ki is too weak, it's clearly a supernatural thing and not just "wow this guy is strong".

“It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.”

It’s Social Influencing. It’s just characters sensing a high power level and being on edge because they’re about to get beat up.

 

[omegabronic]

The detonation starts inside their bodies, not outside, recooome, broly and Goku have all shown that their insides are just as protected as their outsides

In real life your insides are aldo more or less comparable to your outsides

 

[Greenshifter]

@Maverick_Zero_X
Then why is Piccolo confused about it?
Krillin also says that he can’t approach him, not that he doesn’t dare approach him
They weren’t even gonna fight Frieza at this moment AFAIK, yet still froze

Toei Cell does it on people who can’t even sense ki AFAIK.

 

[Greenshifter]

Bronic is right, it’s limited dura neg (and resistance)

 

[Vietthai96]

Toei Cell does it on people who can’t even sense ki AFAIK.

Actually, we gonna have Toei continuity feat on the sandbox/page soon

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually, we gonna have Toei continuity feat on the sandbox/page soon

Yeah I saw, hence strikethrough, what's the current consensus on both continuities being alternate timelines?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah I saw, hence strikethrough, what's the current consensus on both continuities being alternate timelines?

ngl, i don't know at this point, the cosmology is eh.......composite, but only it, everything else still is separated

 

[Greenshifter]

the cosmology is eh.......composite, but only it, everything else still is separated

Should probably fix that next

 

[VinnyXD]

In real life your insides are aldo more or less comparable to your outsides

On the wiki tho we give full Durability Negation shit it's the first example on the durability negation page

 

[Jaakor48]

In real life your insides are aldo more or less comparable to your outsides

So your blood vessels and organs will take the same punishment of something hit then directly as opposed to going through the outside?

Detonating a bomb inside your stomach is the same as it blowing up outside it?

 

[ChronoULT]

Would like to see a sandbox with a couple examples from existing profiles showing how this would look when added.

Made some of them here. Piccolo's profile didn't have tabbers, so i added it

ChronoULT/sandbox4

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[omegabronic]

So your blood vessels and organs will take the same punishment of something hit then directly as opposed to going through the outside?

Detonating a bomb inside your stomach is the same as it blowing up outside it?

when someone punches your stomach, does your skin completely blocks the damage and you feel nothing on your inside? No, your insides are still affected by blows and whatever hits you, albeit less, but not to an great degree

 

[ChronoULT]

I removed attack reflection since it was not a ki ability and added a better explanation about the Manipulation section in the first note

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I removed attack reflection since it was not a ki ability and added a better explanation about the Manipulation section in the first note

Cool, but you'll have to tag everyone on the staff who voted before, since you changed things.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

This looks fantastic. Great job.

 

[ChronoULT]

This looks fantastic. Great job.

Thanks for the evaluation. Can you please tag @Damage3245 and @Maverick_Zero_X to see the changes made in the sandbox?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thanks for the evaluation. Can you please tag @Damage3245 and @Maverick_Zero_X to see the changes made in the sandbox?

Sure.
@Maverick_Zero_X @Damage3245
Could you guys please evaluate this again? The OP has revised his proposals since your last evaluation, apparently.

 

[VinnyXD]

when someone punches your stomach, does your skin completely blocks the damage and you feel nothing on your inside? No, your insides are still affected by blows and whatever hits you, albeit less, but not to an great degree

• Attacking internal structures - An attack somehow bypasses the upper layers of the body and attacks the internal organs or an equivalent. This can be done in a wide variety of ways. It is considered a form of negation due to the fact that internal structures and specifically parts whose function isn't to support the structure and stability of the body are much easier to injure or otherwise damage.

Literally what Gogeta is doing

 

[omegabronic]

• Attacking internal structures - An attack somehow bypasses the upper layers of the body and attacks the internal organs or an equivalent. This can be done in a wide variety of ways. It is considered a form of negation due to the fact that internal structures and specifically parts whose function isn't to support the structure and stability of the body are much easier to injure or otherwise damage.

Literally what Gogeta is doing

hence why is said Limited instead of "it isn't"

Only limited dura neg tho, your insides are less rigid than your outsides, but they also have to take the recoil of when you move or attack, so having a strong body already gives you a "resistance" to attacking internal organs

As while it is easier to damage the inside, it isn't completely negating durability as your insides, while weaker, still somewhat scale to your outsides, else everyone would be hurting themselves by simply moving

 

[VinnyXD]

hence why is said Limited instead of "it isn't"

As while it is easier to damage the inside, it isn't completely negating durability as your insides, while weaker, still somewhat scale to your outsides, else everyone would be hurting themselves by simply moving

"It isn't completely negating durablility"

But somehow the first example on the Durability Negation page.



Like do see a limited mention for attacking internal? On the page or even for a character that has it?

 

[DivineAura44]

hence why is said Limited instead of "it isn't"

As while it is easier to damage the inside, it isn't completely negating durability as your insides, while weaker, still somewhat scale to your outsides, else everyone would be hurting themselves by simply moving

But it's not limited? It is full on the main example of dura neg. I don't understand why that's limited. Your insides are pretty weak in comparison to your outsides but you have muscle and bone protecting you. That's why it's so much easier to hit someone in the throat and affect them, it contains little muscle.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

hence why is said Limited instead of "it isn't"

"It isn't completely negating durablility"

But somehow the first example on the Durability Negation page.



Like do see a limited mention for attacking internal? On the page or even for a character that has it?

I don't know what gogeta has to do with this ki page, but he's right.

Reaching internal organs is just Dura Neg, nothing limited.

This isn't even on the page.

 

[Vietthai96]

Don't like whataboutism, but isn't Garou get full Dura Neg cause he generate shockwave that attack inside the body??

 

[Padaruyos]

Rob Lucci also has Dura Neg with Rokuogan since it fires shockwaves that harms the inside, although that's listed as minor.

 

[omegabronic]

Don't like whataboutism, but isn't Garou get full Dura Neg cause he generate shockwave that attack inside the body??

I mean, yeah but, Saitama had its resistance to it removed because he already being so far above garou at the time would make his organs also much stronger as they also take recoil from what he does

 

[omegabronic]

Rob Lucci also has Dura Neg with Rokuogan since it fires shockwaves that harms the inside, although that's listed as minor.

That is the exact type of thing i have been talking about

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let's not derail with talk of other verses, thanks. And like... Yeah, it is kinda textbook whataboutism

 

[DivineAura44]

Regardless if something fills out the FULL requirements of a type of ability, they should get the ability unrestricted. If you wanna get it changed to a lower level of dura neg than a Staff Thread (it would be a sitewide revision) should be done to change the requirements of dura neg or prove the move doesn't meet the full ability.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Snip

48 hours have passed can the blog be converted into a verse explanation page now?

 

[Vietthai96]

48 hours have passed can the blog be converted into a verse explanation page now?

Isn't two staffs is pinged to get a re-evaluation???, and why it is always me???

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah after thinking about it more, should be full on dura neg (literally a semantics debate smh), imagine a knight with a magical armor with very high durability. Said character’s durability gets completely bypassed by this ki technique.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Looks pretty good, but I have one small issue;

4-B and higher:

• Sound Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation & Portal Creation: At this level of power[6] ki users can create dimensional rifts and destroy space-time and pocket dimensions[26] with their energy[26]

I would change this a bit since being 4-B doesn't automatically mean you get these abilities, only being 4-B on the level of Super Buu / SS3 Gotenks or higher should do that, weaker 4-B dudes like Cell or Cell Games SS2 Gohan shouldn't be able to replicate this since they're much weaker than even SS1 Gotenks who needed to transform to create his dimensional rift. Maybe adding a bracket next to 4-B saying how far into 4-B they need to be could work (Dunno if adding the exact value we scale Super Buu / Gotenks to or just listing those 2 as the bare minimum for the ability)

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean, yeah but, Saitama had its resistance to it removed because he already being so far above garou at the time would make his organs also much stronger as they also take recoil from what he does

Yeah I don't think DB characters would get resistance. Though they do have the advantage of being able to focus on certain parts of the body to make them even more durable.

 

[VinnyXD]

Yeah I don't think DB characters would get resistance. Though they do have the advantage of being able to focus on certain parts of the body to make them even more durable.

I don't really care if Broly gets resistance just want Gogeta to get full Durability Negation.

But I will say the big difference is that Broly is weaker than Gogeta and still survived while Saitama was just plain stronger than Garou.

He's case is better than Saitama for resistance

 

[Greenshifter]

But I will say the big difference is that Broly is weaker than Gogeta and still survived

Immortality type 2

He's case is better than Saitama for resistance

True