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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Dragomer said:
Eh, honestly once you reach that kind of rating, it's kind of the same for all intent and purpose.

Same with everything above multiversal, the only real difference between all those tier is a very slight wording difference.
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Actually, infinite just means you can do something in zero time. An immeasurable feat would be arriving to a place before leaving, attacking before actually throwing your punch, etc.
 
p_1870i67240.png

source on the pic
 
Vietthai96 said:
It is considered as outlier because it is one-time feat, just only shown 1 time, so we can interpreting the scene when Hit using his time-skip and Goku intercept him as just for beautiful and cool visual fight rather than an actual logical feat. The second time when Goku out-speed his own Kamehameha and Hit using his time-skip again Goku is frozen in place. So it is outlier
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Let them hope. I think even mods are tired of arguing with them at this point.
 
I think the problem with VBW debates today is that we always try to tear each other down instead of understand each other, especially when it comes to Dragon Ball. DB arguments usually go like this:
DB supporter: You’re biased and hate the verse. Stop downplaying DB.
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DB opponent: Typical DB fan accusing me of bias when in actuality you’re wanking and talking things out of context.
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When people debate like that ^ this is the only thing they’re thinking. When you’re so focused on winning you don’t see why your opponent is saying the things they are. Instead of trying to win, look at your opponent’s argument, analyze it and see why they came to that conclusion. Instead of “your argument is trash” look at it from your opponent’s perspective. We do this too much, that’s why so many threads have so many pages and last so long. It’s one of the reasons I’m loosing interest in this wiki.
 
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Dragomer said:
That's beyond stupid, if anything other than a time stop, it's more similar to Diavolo's own time skip. and Hit time traveling still result in a time stop for Goku, we literaly see it on screen.

Seriously, for people who always go 'DB is simple and basic!!!!' they don't seems to understand shit about it.
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These were my thoughts when I learned of the removal of the resistance. If I get enough time after next week, I intend to make a thread on it.
 
Actually at Universe 6 Tournament Saga, when Hit use time-skip, no one got time-stop, it is just that he skip forward in time so in his perspective everyone is frozen in time, while to the others, he just suddenly disappear in one place and appear in another.

I'm a huge fan of Dragon Ball too, but if something make sense and it "downgrade" DB, i can't just disregard it, it make DB have bad name, and because i'm DB huge fan, make it have bad name is wrong action for a fan like myself, so please if you are DB loyal fan, please don't make it have bad name.
 
The Vegitos largely dominate the fight, and they defeat Broly with a dual Spirit Sword. CC Vegito goes Blue Kaioken for the final blow, and then defuses.
 
Vietthai96 said:
but if something make sense and it "downgrade" DB, i can't just disregard it, it make DB have bad name, and because i'm DB huge fan, make it have bad name is wrong action for a fan like myself, so please if you are DB loyal fan, please don't make it have bad name.
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Except that what we are saying is that it DOESN'T make sense. Rolling over whenever someone say some nonsensical bulshit about the show won't make it have a good name.

Vietthai96 said:
it is just that he skip forward in time so in his perspective everyone is frozen in time, while to the others, he just suddenly disappear in one place and appear in another.
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Hit doesn't skip forward in time, otherwise he'd just end up in the future with everyone still having normaly moved, just him having dissapeared for 5 minutes. And honestly, what you are saying is more of an upgrade because it mean Goku just got so fast, he fought someone during a time frame they skipped and thus didn't even exist in.

Yes, From Hit's perspective, everyone is time stopped and yet Goku moved while said time was stopped, that's still time stop resistance.
 
I just read a summary of the manga chapter, and Fu gets sealed in the Time Labyrinth there too, but he doesn't mind because he's still able to observe his new universe from inside it. Apparently the dual Spirit Sword also cut through the Universe Tree, though too late to stop it.
 
Dragomer said:
Hit doesn't skip forward in time, otherwise he'd just end up in the future with everyone still having normaly moved, just him having dissapeared for 5 minutes. And honestly, what you are saying is more of an upgrade because it mean Goku just got so fast, he fought someone during a time frame they skipped and thus didn't even exist in.

Yes, From Hit's perspective, everyone is time stopped and yet Goku moved while said time was stopped, that's still time stop resistance.
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Again your reason is flawed. At first Hit time-skip only allow him to skip time forward 0.1s to the future, which is a very very very very small, it not like he actually forward in time for 5 minutes, make him disappear for 5 mins straight though, only 0.1 to 0.2 and then 0.5s, which doesn't meaning much to the flow of time. But it is very effective for a fight between two MFTL fighters. Time-skip, again fundamentally allow Hit to rather than physically need to move into a place, allow himself to skip into the future where he already stood in the place, effectively remove the progress of him physically moving to that place. For example, when i walk from this place to another i need like 10s to walking by feet, so i time-skip myself 10s to the future where i already finish walking and stood in that place. So Hit, using a Time Manip and apply it to himself to place him in the near future rather than apply Time Manip to Goku or the other, if he doesn't apply it to Goku that mean Goku doesn't experience and resisting it; it is similar to Time Accelerated of Emiya Kiritsugu from Fate, he apply Time Manip on himself to accelerated his own time, so despite he doing thing normally, he still faster to his enemies because his time-flow was faster made his movement faster while he see his enemies is slow in time; Hit rather than accelerate, he skip the time.

The second time when Goku using SSBKK x10 we can argue that he punch someone when he in the middle of a time-skip, so possibly result Goku with Immeasurable Speed, unless Kaioken suddenly give him a Time Manip like time travel which make no sense, resistance, again no cause Hit apply Time Manip on himself. Next, the third time when Goku outpace his own Kamehameha, Hit again using time-skip but this time apply it to Goku and Goku frozen in time. Time Stop Resistance out of the window. Next, the fourth time when Hit using Time Skip, we don't see the crystallize/glassy effect of time-skip on Goku body which mean Hit only using time-skip on himself, and.............Goku frozen in place, Immeasurable Speed out of the window, the second feat contradicted the first feats, so the first feat is outlier, or just cool visual fight for the sake of enjoyment and entertainment.

I would love if i'm being prove wrong though, DB verse being broken is my dream though. i would love i could live the the day Zeno is tier 0 and DBH Xeno cast would go to tier 1
 
Vietthai96 said:
Again your reason is flawed. At first Hit time-skip only allow him to skip time forward 0.1s to the future,
Click to expand...
Except he doesn't skip toward anything, once again, Hit himself doesn't temporaly move, the univers and everyone in it is the one jumping. Which give Hit a free 5 seconds of free reign where time doesn't pass for everyone else cause there's literaly no time there.

Vietthai96 said:
which is a very very very very small,
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Given how fast Hit is, it's actualy absurdly big and he even improve it until it last a whole 5 seconds IIRC, which is 5 time more than what it took for Roshi and Krilling to have a full fight back in OG DB.

Vietthai96 said:
Time-skip, again fundamentally allow Hit to rather than physically need to move into a place, allow himself to skip into the future where he already stood in the place,
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Except that once again, that's not what happens, we literally see it on screen. If Hit did that, he'd just dissapear, everyone would wonder where he went for 5 seconds and then he'd randomly re-appear which is ******* pointless.

The rest of your comment isn't even worth reading cause you've established you've got no idea about what we're talking about in literaly 3 lines.

'The DB univers is broken is my dream' How about you instead look at how the ******* show actualy explicitly is? Cause your nonsense about time travel seems very much more in line with your dreams than anything that actualy happens and it's annoying. Like seriously, even your blurb about how the different 'feats' contradict each other doesn't make sense since you're just seperating a single feat into 4 parts and then add stuff that never happened, like time stop resistance being out the window as if Hit didn't explicitly improve his time skip and time stop resistance didn't have different degree (it would be called 'time stop immunity' otherwise).
 
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Does the amount of time hit skip/travel actually matter? Because either way you are hitting someone that is going further in time
 
Havok said:
Does the amount of time hit skip/travel actually matter? Because either way you are hitting someone that is going further in time
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Not really, wether Hit time stop or time travel is the question here (one who has a very obvious and easy response IMO), how long doesn't change if it give Goku time stop resistance or immuserable speed.
 
Okay so question for all of you, what is a Dragon Ball game that you don't like but everyone else does?
IMO my least favorite DB game is very hard to answer but I'm not the biggest fan of the Budokai games. They're not bad games whatsoever but the style of fighting gameplay isn't my strong suit, that and the game can sometimes be unbelievably cheap with certain capsule items you can equip
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Okay so question for all of you, what is a Dragon Ball game that you don't like but everyone else does?
IMO my least favorite DB game is very hard to answer but I'm not the biggest fan of the Budokai games. They're not bad games whatsoever but the style of fighting gameplay isn't my strong suit, that and the game can sometimes be unbelievably cheap with certain capsule items you can equip
Click to expand...
Legacy of Goku was pretty meh.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Okay so question for all of you, what is a Dragon Ball game that you don't like but everyone else does?
IMO my least favorite DB game is very hard to answer but I'm not the biggest fan of the Budokai games. They're not bad games whatsoever but the style of fighting gameplay isn't my strong suit, that and the game can sometimes be unbelievably cheap with certain capsule items you can equip
Click to expand...
FighterZ
 
Dragomer said:
Except he doesn't skip toward anything, once again, Hit himself doesn't temporaly move, the univers and everyone in it is the one jumping. Which give Hit a free 5 seconds of free reign where time doesn't pass for everyone else cause there's literaly no time there.


Given how fast Hit is, it's actualy absurdly big and he even improve it until it last a whole 5 seconds IIRC, which is 5 time more than what it took for Roshi and Krilling to have a full fight back in OG DB.


Except that once again, that's not what happens, we literally see it on screen. If Hit did that, he'd just dissapear, everyone would wonder where he went for 5 seconds and then he'd randomly re-appear which is ******* pointless.

The rest of your comment isn't even worth reading cause you've established you've got no idea about what we're talking about in literaly 3 lines.

'The DB univers is broken is my dream' How about you instead look at how the ******* show actualy explicitly is? Cause your nonsense about time travel seems very much more in line with your dreams than anything that actualy happens and it's annoying. Like seriously, even your blurb about how the different 'feats' contradict each other doesn't make sense since you're just seperating a single feat into 4 parts and then add stuff that never happened, like time stop resistance being out the window as if Hit didn't explicitly improve his time skip and time stop resistance didn't have different degree (it would be called 'time stop immunity' otherwise).
Click to expand...
Bring me the proof he time stop everyone else in U6 Saga, again that just your own headcanon, Hit skip forward in time 0.1s, how the hell he disappear for 5s and like i said before that you don't even bother to read is, we see Hit's time-skip in his own perspective, everyone frozen in time, but to the other perspective he disappear in one place and appear in another, you doesn't even know a thing actually and you gone mad at me, you said that my comment is worthless, so why don't you bring the proof that my comment is worthless rather than just being mad.

It have been established at the beginning of Hit vs Goku fight that Goku predict Hit time-skip movement, unless you want to tell me that Goku predict time-stop which make no sense cause you can't predict time-stop. If time-skip is time-stop and Goku did resist timestop then he won't be hit by Hit so many time like that, could you explain to me that how Base Goku gone from didn't resist time stop to suddenly resist time-stop, and if he did resist the time-skip which is time-stop, why he still bother to predict Hit movement. Now next, to SSB Goku vs Hit, if Goku already resisting a time-stop technique, why Hit even bother to increase his time-skip, time-stop is time-stop, resisting a time-stop mean no matter how long you stop time, the guy who resist will just resist it anyway. After Hit improve himself, Goku plan to to take some of his attack to adapt to the improved time-skip, and Goku failed cause Hit even improve more after he successfully hitting Goku.

Next feat is SSBKKx10 Goku, now you told me that i'm divide the feat into 4 parts, no you are the one who wrong. After Hit improvement, Goku decided to use KK and punch Hit so fast that Hit coundn't even use his Time-skip, now Hit after being punched hard angrily use Time-skip and now we have the feat of SSBKKx10 Goku punch Hit while he in his time-skip, in original japanese Goku said to Hit that: It's no use, i'm currently far beyond the reach of you time-skip , well could be flowery line, hardly indicated anything, the feat is impressive cause Goku punch Hit out of time-skip. Next we goes to Kamehameha which Goku want to finish the fight fast cause KK strain. and Hit continue to improve, and Goku frozen in time............again.

The last feat of the fight is SSBKKx10 vs Hit after the Kamehameha, Hit using time-skip again and Goku with SSBKKx10 got frozen again: skip to 10:30.

Now is the result, if time-skip is time-stop it make no sense if Goku continue to resist and can't resist, unless you assume that Goku first resist 0.1s time-stop then 0.2s then 0.5s. Now for those who want Immeasurable Speed, if Goku in SSB with KKx10 is Immeasurable then no matter how far Hit skip in time he will be punched any way, not Goku who is the one who got punch so many time like that. So result in feats of Goku first punch Hit while he using time-skip being considered as outlier and just for pure cool, badass visual fight.

This is my reason, so now why don't you bring your reason to correct me.
 
"Unless you want to tell me that Goku predict time-stop which make no sense cause you can't predict time-stop."

Honestly predicting a character that can time travel and is faster than you doesn't make sense either but still happened.
 
'Give me proof he stopped time ' We literaly see everyone around him frozen in time. Done. I don't even need to look at the rest of your comment since the entier basis crumble right there.

'Don't tell me Goku does exactly what he said he did' Yet that's what he did and it make a lot more sense than your bulshit about time travel. Also Goku's prediction phase was when Hit was attacking AFTER the end of his time skip, not during it.

But I did looked anyway and all I saw was a lot of words to say 'I have no idea how DB or even this wiki works'. Time stop resistance isn't inherent, Goku went from having no time stop resistance to having time stop resistance because he gained said resistance, you don't need to be born with a resistance to have it. I have no idea where you smoked that 'They didn't have this resistance before' is a valid argument to new feats, especialy after a powerup.
 
Dragomer said:
'Give me proof he stopped time ' We literaly see everyone around him frozen in time. Done. I don't even need to look at the rest of your comment since the entier basis crumble right there.

'Don't tell me Goku does exactly what he said he did' Yet that's what he did and it make a lot more sense than your bulshit about time travel. Also Goku's prediction phase was when Hit was attacking AFTER the end of his time skip, not during it.

But I did looked anyway and all I saw was a lot of words to say 'I have no idea how DB or even this wiki works'. Time stop resistance isn't inherent, Goku went from having no time stop resistance to having time stop resistance because he gained said resistance, you don't need to be born with a resistance to have it.
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If it is time-stop, how Goku gain resistance and suddenly lost it and then again resist it and again lost it which continuously contradicting each others, unless you assume that Goku first resist 0.1s time-stop then 0.2s then 0.5s, but if that the case, we could still see Goku move slightly before gotten frozen again, but what we see in the fight was Goku completely being frozen, that mean for some reason he gain time-stop resistance in Base and lost it in Blue and then gain it in BlueKKx10 and then again lost it in the same form. Make no sense to me.
Also i never said Goku predicting Hit while Hit in time-skip, Goku predicting where he land his attack after Hit finished skip in time. At first it only 0.1s, so he try to predict 0.1s time-skip, next Hit improve to 0.2s and Goku plan to take a few attack to adapt and predict to 0.2s time skip movement, but Hit goes even further more than 0.2s. Goku especially said that he analyzing Hit movement habit to counter time-skip, rather than a special resistance

Like i said before, you can't predict time-stop, and if you resist it you doesn't need to predict you opponent movement.
 
He didn't do that, he gained resistance and then Hit improve his time stop to overcome said resistance, simple as that.

Once again, lots of words just to say 'I didn't actualy watch the show and don't know how resistance work'.

You said it before and it doesn't make it true. Goku was predicting what Hit would do after his time stop ended because Hit wasn't attacking during his time stop yet, it's explicitly shown on screen, literal 7 years old children understood this and you didn't.
 
The Time-Skip at its core does skip through time, there's a scene in Episode 72 of the anime where Vados clarifies this to Champa and specifically says that it isn't stopping time. The reason why Hit sees everyone else as frozen while performing the move isn't because they can't move, but because Hit can't perceive them moving since it isn't actually happening - and it's such a short amount of time that people who aren't both fast enough to counter it and aware of the technique in the first place can't react fast enough to move. This is explicitly shown the first time Goku successfully counters it in Episode 39, when from Hit's perspective he skips from standing ready to having struck him once the Time-Skip ends.

Later on Hit is able to Time Stop during the Time-Skip, but that was an upgrade to the Time-Skip and not an original aspect of the move.

Now, how Goku is able to move during one of these Time-Skips anyway despite this is beyond my understanding.
 
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Dragomer said:
He didn't do that, he gained resistance and then Hit improve his time stop to overcome said resistance, simple as that.
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Again you don't even know what i'm trying to say, why he gain resistance and then lost it, and then gain it and then lost it, i'm already post the fight with multiple time Goku got frozen in time after Hit improve his time-skip. If Goku truly resist time-stop, then Hit improve his time-skip doesn't mean anything cause Goku already develop resistance to it.
Dragomer said:
Once again, lots of words just to say 'I didn't actualy watch the show and don't know how resistance work'.
Click to expand...
This line is not even an argument, try something new to prove that i'm wrong
Dragomer said:
You said it before and it doesn't make it true. Goku was predicting what Hit would do after his time stop ended because Hit wasn't attacking during his time stop yet, it's explicitly shown on screen, literal 7 years old children understood this and you didn't.
Click to expand...
Again this is what you make-up yourself, he doesn't attacking during his time-stop yet??? why he isn't attack??? or actually he can't attack cause that not time-stop, if time-skip is time-stop, no matter what Goku doing will be pointless, everything including his thought will be stop, and Hit will freeing doing anything. Hit actually time-stop would be in the filler ep when he attacking the gang leader, when he actually attacking someone while time-stop everyone else. You using the argument "literal 7 years old children understood this and you didn't" will not justify your reason, you should bring your own reason. I'm willing to change my thought if the reason is good, but at this rate i will probably waiting for AKM make his CRT regarding this problem
 
I should add that near the end of the fight, once Hit actually starts stopping time during the Time-Skip, Goku is completely unable to defend against it.
 
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