Giannysmag
He/Him- 3,250
- 5,642
So recently numerous characters in Genshin Impact got upgraded to Sub-Relativistic based on this calc of Kazuha saving Traveler from Raiden and to put it simply, i have a lot of issues.
First and most importantly the calc assumes Raiden's attack that Kazuha intercepts is moving at lightning speed because it is electro. However Raiden isn't actually using any lightning in this scene, she is just swinging her sword. Sure it's infused with electro but that wouldn't inherantly make the attack lightning speed. I say this because during the scene were she is attacking Traveler you can actually see sparks of lightning flying off at normal speed while everything else (including Raiden's attack) is moving in slow motion.
But let's for a moment assume that she is attacking at lightning speed and the calc is valid from a math perspective. Well Raiden and by extension the rest of the verse still wouldn't scale to it, because the calc itself shows Kazuha in this scene is moving 8.5x faster than Raiden is swinging her sword. Why would she scale to a calc that shows she is significantly slower than the person performing the feat? It's not like she was holding back either, she is clearly trying to kill the Traveler and more importantly is using the Musou no Hitotachi, the pinnicle of her sword skill.
Now i wanna go over some of the arguaments @GarrixianXD presented in the previous CRT us to why this feat would scale to Raiden (again this is all assuming the calc actually works from a math perspective, i just wanna be sure and tackle both the calc and the scaling here)
Warning: A lot of yapping ahead
With all that in mind i think it's pretty clear that the calc is not usable for scaling and everyone that is currently listed as Sub-Relativistic should get downgraded back down to MHS+ from this calc
Agree: 2 (@Puppet43, @JirensMom)
Disagree: 0
Neutral: 1 (@Woomica)
First and most importantly the calc assumes Raiden's attack that Kazuha intercepts is moving at lightning speed because it is electro. However Raiden isn't actually using any lightning in this scene, she is just swinging her sword. Sure it's infused with electro but that wouldn't inherantly make the attack lightning speed. I say this because during the scene were she is attacking Traveler you can actually see sparks of lightning flying off at normal speed while everything else (including Raiden's attack) is moving in slow motion.
But let's for a moment assume that she is attacking at lightning speed and the calc is valid from a math perspective. Well Raiden and by extension the rest of the verse still wouldn't scale to it, because the calc itself shows Kazuha in this scene is moving 8.5x faster than Raiden is swinging her sword. Why would she scale to a calc that shows she is significantly slower than the person performing the feat? It's not like she was holding back either, she is clearly trying to kill the Traveler and more importantly is using the Musou no Hitotachi, the pinnicle of her sword skill.
Now i wanna go over some of the arguaments @GarrixianXD presented in the previous CRT us to why this feat would scale to Raiden (again this is all assuming the calc actually works from a math perspective, i just wanna be sure and tackle both the calc and the scaling here)
Warning: A lot of yapping ahead
This is the arguament that Garrixian fell back on the most during our previous discussion. That during the quick moment where Kazuha is moving you can see Raiden is no longer giant, lacks the sigil behind her back and has seemingly moved to face Kazuha, implying that she reacted his movement and tried to counterattack. But I for one don't really think she moved at all, the reason it looks like that is because she appeared gaint when she emerged from the sigil and it was hard to tell her exact position. As for why she is no longer gaint and lacks the sigil, that can simply be explained by the fact that in the first shot she is the main focus while in the second she is in the backround, barely visible and appears for only a fraction the amount of time she did previously so there would be no reason for whoever is making the cutscenes to add the same amount of details as in the first shot.
And since Garri likes to throw out a bunch of debate terms, I'll try the same. Occam's razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one and between "Raiden was about to strike the Traveler, but Kazuha blitzed her and saved them" and "Raiden was about to strike Traveler, Kazuha began moving at which point Raiden stopped mid swing and instead moved slightly to aim for Kazuha" i think the former is the simplest.
Even narrativelly it makes senses that Kazuha simply blocked the strike that was aimed for Traveler, as this scene is a callback to the scene of Kazuha's friend's death. Here Kazuha arrived just too late to save his friend from the Musou no Hitotachi, but in the present when armed with the power of said deceased friend he can save another friend of his from the same fate. I think it's pretty clear that Kazuha straight up intercepted the Musou no Hitotachi mid-swing here and trying to argue otherwise goes against what the entire scene is trying to show us.
And since Garri likes to throw out a bunch of debate terms, I'll try the same. Occam's razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one and between "Raiden was about to strike the Traveler, but Kazuha blitzed her and saved them" and "Raiden was about to strike Traveler, Kazuha began moving at which point Raiden stopped mid swing and instead moved slightly to aim for Kazuha" i think the former is the simplest.
Even narrativelly it makes senses that Kazuha simply blocked the strike that was aimed for Traveler, as this scene is a callback to the scene of Kazuha's friend's death. Here Kazuha arrived just too late to save his friend from the Musou no Hitotachi, but in the present when armed with the power of said deceased friend he can save another friend of his from the same fate. I think it's pretty clear that Kazuha straight up intercepted the Musou no Hitotachi mid-swing here and trying to argue otherwise goes against what the entire scene is trying to show us.
Another piont that's brought up as to why Raiden would scale to Kazuha's speed is that after their little clash Raiden counterattacks, which Kazuha manages to block but only bearly, showing some level of relativity. This isn't entirely correct for two reasons
- Kazuha was distracted looking at his sword the moment Raiden was beginning to attack him
- Kazuha's feat mentioned above is done by using his elemental powers to boost his speed, which is something that numerous characters in the game have been shown to do and is an ability that's listed on basically every character profile. Since this is a boost (and a significant one at that since he is using the power of 2 visions to move) Kazuha's base speed wouldn't fully scale to it, which combined with the above point shows why he was only able to "barely" react to Raiden despite being faster
Here Garri argues that the Traveler after being amped by 99 visions went on to fight evenly against the Raiden Shogun. Since Traveler has the power of 99 visions in this scene instead of the mere 2 Kazuha had, we can infer that he would be a lot faster than Kazuha and since Raiden was able to fight us evenly before losing she would scale to us and by extention Kazuha.
But there are multiple problems here. Firstly Garri assumes that after the vision buff Traveler and Ei still had a relatively even fight before the latter lost based on the fact that she has a fully fledged boss fight. Problem is we can't be sure of that because there are no cutscenes of them actually fighting after the Traveler gained the visions. They simply get the power up, the boss fight happens and the next cutscene shows a defeated Ei. There is nothing to pull from to say how even the fight was. Her being a boss in game also wouldn't be an indicator of scaling, since Signora is also a fully fledged boss with multiple phases, yet we canonically beat her ass.
The second issue I have is the assumption that Traveler obtaining the visions would instantly increase his speed to Kazuha levels. The problem is that as far as I am aware obtaining a vision has never been stated to be a buff to your physical stats, it simply grants you elemental abilities. With that in mind we can assume that the only aspect of the Travelers speed that would have been buffed to Kazuha levels with the visions is their speed when it's being boosted with elements, not their base speed. And guess what, we have absolutely no indication that Traveler used his elements to boost his speed against Raiden, let alone that Raiden was reacting to them when doing that because again we have no cutscenes of them fighting when Traveler has the visions. Infact the Traveler notoriously doesn't really use their elements all that much (check any cutscene of them fighting Raiden, Scaramouche or Arlecchino and you'll be hard pressed to find a single time where they used their elements), so it's really not far fetched to say they never boosted their speed with elements in the fight.
But there are multiple problems here. Firstly Garri assumes that after the vision buff Traveler and Ei still had a relatively even fight before the latter lost based on the fact that she has a fully fledged boss fight. Problem is we can't be sure of that because there are no cutscenes of them actually fighting after the Traveler gained the visions. They simply get the power up, the boss fight happens and the next cutscene shows a defeated Ei. There is nothing to pull from to say how even the fight was. Her being a boss in game also wouldn't be an indicator of scaling, since Signora is also a fully fledged boss with multiple phases, yet we canonically beat her ass.
The second issue I have is the assumption that Traveler obtaining the visions would instantly increase his speed to Kazuha levels. The problem is that as far as I am aware obtaining a vision has never been stated to be a buff to your physical stats, it simply grants you elemental abilities. With that in mind we can assume that the only aspect of the Travelers speed that would have been buffed to Kazuha levels with the visions is their speed when it's being boosted with elements, not their base speed. And guess what, we have absolutely no indication that Traveler used his elements to boost his speed against Raiden, let alone that Raiden was reacting to them when doing that because again we have no cutscenes of them fighting when Traveler has the visions. Infact the Traveler notoriously doesn't really use their elements all that much (check any cutscene of them fighting Raiden, Scaramouche or Arlecchino and you'll be hard pressed to find a single time where they used their elements), so it's really not far fetched to say they never boosted their speed with elements in the fight.
Finally Garri argues that Kazuha being faster than Raiden would be a case of Plot Induced Stupidity since he is just a human vision user compared to one of the Gods of Teyvat. However that would mean that the calc itself is PIS since it clearly shows that Kazuha is much faster than Raiden. You can't have your cake and eat it too, either Kazuha is Sub-Relativistic by outspeeding Raiden's strike or Kazuha outspeeding Raiden (and by extention the cal)c is PIS so no one scale to Sub-Relativistic
With all that in mind i think it's pretty clear that the calc is not usable for scaling and everyone that is currently listed as Sub-Relativistic should get downgraded back down to MHS+ from this calc
Agree: 2 (@Puppet43, @JirensMom)
Disagree: 0
Neutral: 1 (@Woomica)
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(pretend this is struck through)
