Gildarts downgrade

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Why is Gildarts High 6-C? August was toying with Gildarts for the entire fight, and there's really nothing implying that he's stronger than Erza whenever she's amped by Emotions. And the only time he's damaged August was via Crash, which ignores durability. All his other attacks were useless against August.

 

[Theglassman12]

He should probably be downgraded. The only feat I can recall from him in the last arc is oneshotting God Serena.

 

[1997KD]

You should check the older thread, and he did harm august with his fake arm as well

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

You should check the older thread, and he did harm august with his fake arm as well

I've read the entire fight, the only thing he did was knock August into a wall whenever he got angry and August wasn't even damaged. Gildarts shouldn't scale to August.

 

[1997KD]

after that August was forced to use ars magia.
August can copy and null gil attacl didn't mean gil get weaker, for the same reason jellal get lowball here(but i don't have time for his crt)

 

[1997KD]

"All his other attack were useless against august" this line really makes me laugh, cause if someone read ft for a single time will know why his attack didn't work on August, is this another desperate attempt to lowball ft characters?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Nice Ad Hominem, but how's about you share the scans after that happened? August stood up like it was nothing, meanwhile August was toying around with Gildarts the entire time.

 

[1997KD]

>August stood up like nothing

>then decide to use suicide attack to destroy everything.

Above scan show cleary he took damage, gildarts attack was useless on him can use he null it.

 

[1997KD]

August wasn't toying with him, re-read acno vs dragon slayer fight was a fight where you a say a villain was playing with heroes.

Just saying a villain was playing with other character so he much downgrades it's not a good way to lowball someone

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

August literally clowns on Gildarts. He overpowers Gildarts to such a large degree it's not even funny. It's even casual how much August is above Gildarts.

I can't see how Gildarts scales to August when even in a 2v1 August is still casually beating them. I guess I could see that Gildarts' left arm could potentially scale since it caused August to yell, but it does literally no damage. Everything else about Gildarts is literally not able to scale.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I actually agree with the downgrades after double checking stuffs.

Granted he is probably the strongest FT 6-C in AP.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that Gildarts was clearly weaker than August.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm certain he scales above POF Erza, and he did damage August and make him bleed, when he could damage him with magic, so that's High 6-C AP, nobody is saying he is stronger, just that he has the power to damage him when his attacks don't get nulled

but that's just my opinion

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

August wasn't bleeding from the attack, August stood back up without any damage whatsoever. As for him scaling to Erza the two never directly interacted with each other and there's nothing really to imply he's stronger than Erza going all out. I think it's a bit of an assumption to scale him above PoF Erza, going by that logic characters like Jellal and such would scale above her. I think a better rating for Gildarts would be "At Least 6-C, likely higher."

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

August is bleeding from the nose after Gildarts attack, and has a bunch of scratches on his body that he didn't have before, the only reason Gildarts couldn't hurt him before is because of August's Power Null

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I quite literally can't see any blood on August. Hell Gildarts was even shocked that he didn't damage August once August stood up.

we can clearly see that August wasn't damaged. Power null doesn't matter whenever August was able to man handle Gildarts physically as well.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

August clearly has a nosebleed and visible scratches in this image

, he took damage when he didn't resist magic

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

That's likely due to the fact that he was thrown into solid stones, Gildarts never hit him in the face. His attack landed directly on his chin. At best I can see Gildarts being High 6-C with his left arm and that's still iffy since August was ultimately unfazed by the attack. For the entire match August was man handling Gildarts even in CQC and in a 2v1.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That would imply that the stones AP is higher than gildarts's, also his left arm doesn't have any special properties, it's scales to his normal AP

 

[The_Calaca]

Despite you FT supporters claims that everything is magical in nature ovo

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

That would imply that the stones AP is higher than gildarts's, also his left arm doesn't have any special properties, it's scales to his normal AP

no it doesn't scale to his normal AP. His normal AP was child's play for August and was thrown aside. Not once in the entire fight did Gildarts damage August with his normal punches. Gildarts even called his left arm a tool, implying that it's special. Not to mention the fact that the thing busted, going against Newtons Third Law. It couldn't withstand the force of the attack

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gildarts strikes without magic are weak when compared to August, but with magic they are on that level, when Gildarts found out a way to get around August's Power Null, that's when he did damage, calling his arm a tool is just saying that it isn't natural and it is only a an extension of himself, it's not some super weapon that has an AP far above his own, it's never been implied to be that, not to mention he survived several hits from August, therefore he was taking High 6-C AP, and doing just fine, Also he pushed back August on several occasions, there is nothing really complicated here, he damaged August on his own, so he should scale, not stronger than, but comparable when no Hax is involved

So I can agree with his striking class being downgraded but not AP

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

You just debunked yourself there.


Gildarts strikes without magic are weak when compared to August, but with magic they are on that level, when Gildarts found out a way to get around August's Power Null, that's when he did damage.


False, read the fight again, Gildarts was getting dominated the entire fight even whenever he went for Hand to Hand combat which he should have had the edge in. August caught his punch and threw him aside like a child. Even whenever Gildarts did manage to damage August, August stood up and Gildarts was completely shocked that his attacked barely phased August. It's blatantly clear that Gildarts was getting his ass kicked and couldn't do anything to August, the difference between the two was massive and the only time Gildarts was able to damage August was by using his tool which couldn't even withstand the force of the attack.


calling his arm a tool is just saying that it isn't natural and it is only a an extension of himself, not to mention he survived several hits from August, therefore he was taking High 6-C AP, and doing just fine, Also he pushed back August on several occasions, there is nothing really complicated here, he damaged August on his own, so he should scale.


You're ignoring the context here, Gildarts calling his left arm isn't just him saying it's not natural. It's something that has special properties ( I.E being stronger than his normal attacks. ) and that's made evidently clear that August was way above Gildarts. Even with his tool, it was destroyed by the force of his attack and August stood right back up. Even in a 2v1 along with Gildarts being enraged he still couldn't defeat August. Also pushing August back doesn't equate to AP or durability. I could push someone who's physically much stronger than I am, being able to push someone doesn't mean you're as strong as them in the slightest. As for Gildarts taking hits from August I'd call that an outlier, considering later on August was able to pierce right through Gildarts with an attack that was meant for Cana. Again his Arm was also destroyed by attacking August. It goes against Newtons Third Law and is incredibly inconsistent. Also taking a attack and still fighting doesn't mean anything. For instance, Luffy took a kick from Kizaru and kept fighting, Ace got burnt by Akainu and jumped right back on his feet in the same panel. These things happen often in Manga so it's more of a stamina feat rather than a durability feat since Gildarts was heavily damaged by said attacks.


At best Gildarts would get "At least 6-C, possibly High 6-C with his mechanical arm." and that's still generous considering that the arm was destroyed by the force of the attack.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Mitch seems to make sense.

 

[Wokistan]

Doesn't take all that much to cause a nosebleed tbh. My friend hit me in the face with a basketball once and gave me a bloody nose but the actual hit didn't even hurt that much and I was totally fine beside sthat.

 

[The_Calaca]

I can have my nose bleeding from a sneeze ovo

My two cents here.

Now being serious, I'd like to check the fight to see if what Mitch says is correct or if Rin is.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

First of all, the 2v1 thing doesn't help at all, Gildarts help was from Cana... nough said, 2nd of all, the reason Gildarts was doing so bad and that his attacks were doing nothing is all because August's Power Null was negated all magic power against him, Gikdarts basically had to fight without any magic, and taking multiple hits from August is not an outlier, he blocked and defended against those attacks many times and kept going, the reason the mecahnical arm did damage is because August couldn't null it, not because the arm itself was overpowered, Gildarts damages August with an attack from his AP, that's enough to warrant a tiering, claiming otherwise would be denying scaling in general

Basically AP stays the same, but Striking Class would change

Striking Class: At least Island level normally Large Island level with Crash

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

First of all, the 2v1 thing doesn't help at all, Gildarts help was from Cana... nough said.'


Not really, help is still help regardless of who it's coming from. Cana herself is the main reason Gildarts was able to fight against August without getting rekt since he wanted to protect his daughter. Without her there he would have gotten splattered.


2nd of all, the reason Gildarts was doing so bad and that his attacks were doing nothing is all because August's Power Null was negated all magic power against him, Gikdarts basically had to fight without any magic, and taking multiple hits from August is not an outlier, he blocked and defended against those attacks many times and kept going, the reason the mecahnical arm did damage is because August couldn't null it, not because the arm itself was overpowered.


Simply not true. Again you need to look at the scans above, August literally caught a physical punch from Gildarts and threw him away like a child. The Arm Cleary had to have something special to it otherwise he wouldn't have been able to damage August, if you can even call that Damage. All he did was give August a nose bleed while trying his hardest. Jozu was able to make Kuzan bleed yet we don't scale him because there's a clear difference between the two of them. And the arm itself wasn't even able to withstand the force of the attack. And Gildarts taking attacks from August shouldn't even be a factor whenever he was heavily damaged by all of them and August stabbed into him with a basic attack.


Gildarts damages August with an attack from his AP, that's enough to warrant a tiering, claiming otherwise would be denying scaling in general


Again, at best this scales to his strongest attack. Without them he was getting man handled even when using his pure strength. No scaling is being denied, the scaling itself is wrong. Crash ignores durability, I'll suggest this. "At least 6-C normally, High 6-C with his strongest attack."

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

AP scales to your best, Striking Class would be the only thing to change, since only Gildarts's physical abilities would be descreased

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Hence why I suggested "At least 6-C normally, High 6-C with his strongest attack."


August himself isn't High 6-C, but he can be with his strongest attack.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

No, you don't need to separate his strongest attack from his normal AP, because the only reason Gildarts was doing so poorly is because he couldn't use his magic, all his crash imbued punches and range attacks couldn't work, but when he did land an attack he damaged August, so only striking class would change, as Gildarts Physical abilities aren't up to par, but his magic is

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Everything you said is false. Again Gildarts approached August with his physical strength and still got overwhelmed.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's what I'm saying, Gildarts could only do Physical attacks and did poorly, but with Magic he damaged August, so Striking Class would be the only thing to change for gildarts as that applies to physical attacks

 

[The_Calaca]

But Gil's attacks ignore durability. How is he scaling to High 6-C from that?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gildarts Crash Imbued Punches and Explosions don't ignore durability, but his disassembly magic does, so when he damages August with a crash explosion, that would scale to AP

 

[The_Calaca]

Okay, I'm gonna ask again for the official manga chapter. I want to read the fight for myself to reach a conclusion.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Chapters 521 to 527

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The only outcome I can see is that Gildarts does not scale to August in AP, striking nor durability except for that sole attack he used with his fake arm.

 

[The_Calaca]

This is what I found from the full fight:

Gil shows himself and the fight starts. They clash and nothing more (521-14).

Gust is surprised but unharmed (521-15).

Gil uses a parry showing that he can react to Gust (521-16).

Gil tries to blitz and he eventually manages to do it (522-09).

Then he dissassembles Gust (522-10)...

... with no effect (522-11).

Then Gust punches Gil (522-12)...

... and just with that he understand the difference and yell Cana to run instead of stay there to fight (522-014).

Then Cana goes Fairy Glitter on Gust (524-17)...

... achieving nothing as always (524-19).

Gil tries again and as always he achieves nothing (525-03)...

... getting rag-dolled in the process (525-04).

Gust blows some dirt with Gil (525-05).

They clash agai but Gust barely seems like trying while Gildarts is putting much more effort (526-02).

Gil uses something that isn't Dissassembly Magic (unless this is the official translation for the Dissassembly) (526-03)...

... and achieves nothing to get rekted once again (526-04).

Then he gets stabbed by an attack meant for Cana (526-05).

But of course, he's fine (527-06).

Gildarts reveals Gust's magic trick (526-14).

Revealing that he can't copy Holder Type Magic such as Cana's cards (525-15).

Then Gil calls his arm a tool like he named Cana's cards (526-17)...

... to imbue it with Explosion Magic (526-18).

Gildarts' left arm was destroyed from that one attack that barely damaged Gust (527-07).

He's even surprised that Gust is okay (527-08).

Then he uses Ars Magia and attempts to vaporizes Fiore (which I think we should be a bit more strict about), gaining no damage at all during the fight.

So no, at most Gildarts should scale to Likely High 6-C with his strongest attack because Gust was fodderizing him during all the fight.

I could say that Cana is more of a High 6-C because he forced Gust to dodge her cards when he can just tank or deflect them but that's a massive outlier.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Alright then, I'm ok with just At least 6-C for gildarts then, maybe High 6-C with his strongest attack