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[Fairy Tail] It ain't just Neo Eclipse that's Low 2-C, Zeref is too (Admin Vote Required)

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Aside from Ignia, Dragon gods are not > Pre-SBT Acnologia, definitely not the ones suppressed by Dogramag.

Against Mercphobia, Natsu's flames were burning with destructive intent of Ignia's flames, hence why they scared Lucy. (similar to END where he was out for blood)

Otherwise, Natsu's flames burn solely with the intent to protect his guild. Blaze of savage emotions is Natsu burning all of himself, his own soul, and his emotions for the Guild turned to power. His rage is not directed at the world. His guild mark burning is a trademark for that.

And the emotional weight and stakes of these 2 instances (against zeref vs against merc) are not remotely the same. Natsu's fight with Zeref was culmination of 400 years of history and brotherhood.

Pre-SBT Acnologia = Igneel >> full power Dragon Gods not named Ignia.

Natsu with Igneel's recreated power no-diffed a full power Aldoron.

King Flames Natsu = Black Faris = Human Ignia >>> (one-shot Tier above) every other Dragon God at their full power.

It was Igneel power that put Natsu on this level. Faris says Igneel's power will soon run out and relaxes. Ignia started sweating when he got to know Natsu was using Igneel's power.

Faris with pre-SBT Acnologia's left hand is one shot tier above dragon gods except Ignia.

Her entire power and personality are wholly dominated by Acnologia's left arm. She doesn't even brag about "her own" power, her whole shtick is bragging about Acnologia's power.

And Ignia literally makes fun of the same Faris who is far stronger than other dragon gods, for thinking she is really on Acnologia's level lol (and this guy has no idea about the SBT, no one except Anna and Zeref did until the final battle)

And even when you look back, Zeref never took the Dragon Gods seriously in the presence of Acnologia. Recent events like natsu no-diffing aldoron merely justify that.
 
Nerd1435 said:
Aside from Ignia, Dragon gods are not > Pre-SBT Acnologia, definitely not the ones suppressed by Dogramag.

Against Mercphobia, Natsu's flames were burning with destructive intent of Ignia's flames, hence why they scared Lucy. (similar to END where he was out for blood)

Otherwise, Natsu's flames burn solely with the intent to protect his guild. Blaze of savage emotions is Natsu burning all of himself, his own soul, and his emotions for the Guild turned to power. His rage is not directed at the world. His guild mark burning is a trademark for that.

And the emotional weight and stakes of these 2 instances (against zeref vs against merc) are not remotely the same. Natsu's fight with Zeref was culmination of 400 years of history and brotherhood.

Pre-SBT Acnologia = Igneel >> full power Dragon Gods not named Ignia.

Natsu with Igneel's recreated power no-diffed a full power Aldoron.

King Flames Natsu = Black Faris = Human Ignia >>> (one-shot Tier above) every other Dragon God at their full power.

It was Igneel power that put Natsu on this level. Faris says Igneel's power will soon run out and relaxes. Ignia started sweating when he got to know Natsu was using Igneel's power.

Faris with pre-SBT Acnologia's left hand is one shot tier above dragon gods except Ignia.

Her entire power and personality are wholly dominated by Acnologia's left arm. She doesn't even brag about "her own" power, her whole shtick is bragging about Acnologia's power.

And Ignia literally makes fun of the same Faris who is far stronger than other dragon gods, for thinking she is really on Acnologia's level lol (and this guy has no idea about the SBT, no one except Anna and Zeref did until the final battle)

And even when you look back, Zeref never took the Dragon Gods seriously in the presence of Acnologia. Recent events like natsu no-diffing aldoron merely justify that.
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That's fair. You also gotta consider the fact that Neo Eclipse woulda just nuked the Dragon Gods anyway (Except Ignia) so DBI would just do the same here. I'm just being neutral and sharing both sides of the argument; either position is fine
 
Saqphire said:
That's fair. You also gotta consider the fact that Neo Eclipse woulda just nuked the Dragon Gods anyway so DBI would just do the same here. I'm just being neutral and sharing both sides of the argument; either position is fine
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The only person I think would hypothetically resist the Neo Eclipse is SBT Acnologia. (Its just that they'd never happen at once, because neo eclipse also needs the SBT)

Acnologia is pretty much already FH Zeref level with the power of SBT (transcends the realm of "power" entirely and enters concept territory) inside him on top of that.

If only he didn't need the dragon slayers to stabilize his own power and hence had to keep them alive, they'd have gotten blinked out of existence in an instant.
 
Nerd1435 said:
The only person I think would hypothetically resist the Neo Eclipse is SBT Acnologia. (Its just that they'd never happen at once, because neo eclipse also needs the SBT)

Acnologia is pretty much already FH Zeref level with the power of SBT (transcends the realm of "power" entirely and enters concept territory) inside him on top of that.

If only he didn't need the dragon slayers to stabilize his own power and hence had to keep them alive, they'd have gotten blinked out of existence in an instant.
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I mean if we grant the fact that Ignia is above SDFF then Ignia woulda just done the same thing Natsu did so he's also an example. SBT Acno is obviously above FH Zeref, like there's no discussion about that lmao
 
Saqphire said:
As Zackra and I have mentioned, pretty much all of the Low 2-C feats in the Eclipse Celestial Spirit King arc, as well as Acnologia using space-time magic (and part of Zeref's Neo Eclipse plan) to destroy the world (when he previously was tryna destroy the planet without it)
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Aside from the God tiers, who scales to the CSK feats?
 
Saqphire said:
I mean if we grant the fact that Ignia is above SDFF then Ignia woulda just done the same thing Natsu did so he's also an example. SBT Acno is obviously above FH Zeref, like there's no discussion about that lmao
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Ignia would probably burn the Fairy Heart entirely but I don't think he'd resist the Neo Eclipse. Because Neo Eclipse is both fairy heart and the space between time. Zeref has been reserving the magic of the space between time for Neo Eclipse, so he sealed it away. Natsu didn't burn away the SBT (obv, since it existed just fine after the fight and even "erased" Acnologia) during the fight, just the FH and Zeref's own power.

With the current state of the wiki, I agree with SBT Acnologia at Low 2C, Seven flames Natsu at low 2C (since there was an explicit statement that all their bonds and emotions gave birth to the strongest power of all), Fairy Sphere at low 2C (basically Acnologia and the power of bonds/emotions lol). SBT>>Pre-SBT Acnologia's own power, although not infinitely above, so I'm neutral on the rest of their "Standard AP" scaling to low 2C at least until the 100yq comes to an end
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
Aside from the God tiers, who scales to the CSK feats?
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The most valid feat here (other than Neo Eclipse) would only scale to the ECSK and the God Tiers becaue that specific feat is in a vacuum (which was explained here) which only gets surpassed by the God Tiers' own statements of being the pinnacle of magic or top 1 in the verse etc.

People may argue that the Spriggans would also scale based on these statements, however I'm not tryna get into Spriggan debates right now because the Spriggans' DC feats are garbage in comparison to the ECSK/Tenrou Island arc feats from Natsu, Ultear and the CSK himself; I wanna get the God Tier scaling passed first before I try to add anything for the Spriggans

Nerd1435 said:
With the current state of the wiki, I agree with SBT Acnologia at Low 2C, Seven flames Natsu at low 2C (since there was an explicit statement that all their bonds and emotions gave birth to the strongest power of all), Fairy Sphere at low 2C (basically Acnologia and the power of bonds/emotions lol). SBT>>Pre-SBT Acnologia's own power, although not infinitely above, so I'm neutral on the rest of their "Standard AP" scaling to low 2C at least until the 100yq comes to an end
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Alright, I'll note it in the OP
Zeinx1 said:
I agree, I don't think there's a mistake, and I'd like to add something: I think Jellal should scale like Erza because, in the same way, Jellal scales from Pre-SBT Acnologia in his vsb profile.
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Yeah but that's human Acnologia tho, someone who I don't scale to Low 2-C since it's the dragon version that was comparable to Zeref here
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Ok, I first wanna say it's wild that Zeref is actually going to become Low 2-C. I mean I can absolutely believe it in the current landscape of power scaling, but still, it's wild to see. I still have my personal doubts... But those doubts apply to like the majority of verses that have reached universal levels via means like this, so that's not exactly a comment about specifically Zeref, but the landscape as a whole. So if we actually do fully accept this.

Obviously Fairy Heart Zeref becomes Low 2-C because he's the one who performed the feat

Savage Dragon Fire Natsu becomes Low 2-C because he literally overpowered Fairy Heart Zeref and destroyed the very power that was able to perform the feat

Pre-Space Between Time Dragon Form Acnologia also becomes Low 2-C because Fairy Heart Zeref is only implied to perhaps be a match or a threat to this version of Acnologia, signifying that it isn't guaranteed if this power will surpass the good ole Acnologia. Obviously the Post-Space Between Time Acnologia scales above all of this as well because absorbing the Space Between Time made him a gazillion times stronger and verbatim stated to be Top 1 in the verse.

Igneel in both his Half-Dead and Prime states become Low 2-C because he can fight and knock out this Acnologia and he's still getting hype to this very day

Seven Flames Natsu scaels to Low 2-C as well because he can hurt and kill Post-Space Between Time Acnologia

Now here's where things get weird

The Dragon Gods do not really scale to Pre-Space Between Time Acnologia anymore based on the reveals of the current arc. As we know, Earthland Faris has stolen the power of Pre-Space Between Time Dragon Form Acnologia's right arm and she is relative to the Natsu who DOG-WALKED an Unsealed Black Magic Amped Dragon Form Aldoron. Ignia goes on to say that she's kidding if she thinks she's Acnologia level with just this right arm. This means Pre-Space Between Time Acnologia>>>All versions of the Non-Ignia Dragon Gods, meaning there's no reason they scale directly to Low 2-C just by the statement Elefseria made. Additionally, Elefseria's statement is actually in hindsight not reliable Took me a long time to accept that one. Elefseria only states that these Dragon Gods are "SAID" to be relative to Acnologia, meaning it's just rumors and baseless rando opinions, not Elefseria stating facts or his own personal knowledge, making these comparisons dubious.

HOWEVER, there is a chance we could maybe grant "Possibly Low 2-C" to them off of one specific individual. Natsu. We see that Ignia's Flame Natsu was so strong that it overcame his own fire resistance and severely burned his arms the same way that Savage Dragon Fire Natsu did, implying that the forms strengths are at the very least similar, so this should make Ignia's Flame Natsu "At least 5-A, possibly Low 2-C", with this Natsu verbatim saying that he cannot beat a Full Power Sealed Ignia by himself, so if accepted, we would scale the Sealed and Unsealed Dragon Gods to "At least 5-A, possibly Low 2-C". As for Unsealed Ignia, Black Faris, and more... Well that's new scaling, so it'd have to be discussed

Man I forgot how tiring it was typing all this...
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@Reiner04 @KingTempest

You two kinda need to confirm you agree with those conclusions so this can be finished. To me at least, seems acceptable but I basically know nothing of this verse.
 
Burning_Full_Fingers said:
Aside from the God tiers, who scales to the CSK feats?
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No one directly, as no one tanks the light attacks that turn you into constellations, they oneshot everyone hit by them, and the low 2-C stuff would only happen if the ECSK would have reached full power, something he never got to do.

Only the god tiers would actually scale and Fairy Heart Zeref would be the start of those who do by his statement of possessing the pinnacle of magic.
 
Damage3245 said:
Or maybe it's because he was only able to beat Zeref because he had a wild emotional super-amp and he can't necessarily replicate that level of power in a whim?
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That’s a valid point, but Natsu was already referring to himself as inferior to Dragon Gods in a state where he was also super amped and couldn’t use the power on a whim with Ignia’s Flames, which portray a similar level of power to Savage Dragon Fire Natsu, who does scale to Low 2-C

But nevertheless, I was very much waiting for 100YQ to end before I fully determined where the Dragon Gods scale in relation to Fairy Heart Zeref and Acnologia
 
I think we can all agree that the early statements of the Dragon Gods being equal to Acnologia has fallen apart… For a long time I wanted to believe it was true, but we have so much evidence debunking that as true, Black Wizard Faris being the main reason it falls completely apart

But Natsu consistently seeing himself as below the Full Power Sealed Dragon Gods even when in possession of Ignia’s Flames, does suggest to me that we can scale the Sealed Dragon Gods to Fairy Heart Zeref, who is the source of Low 2-C. If Zeref is accepted as such in this thread and that is actually applied… That does open us up to literally everyone being Low 2-C tho because a lot of characters scale to 40-50% of the Sealed Dragon Gods power and 40%-50% of Low 2-C is still… Well Low 2-C

Power scaling dilemmas 101, but hey… I see people scaling to Low 2-C via being remotely comparable to a Low 2-C literally everywhere on this site, so… Guess Fairy Tail gets that honor too
 
Frankly, I think the reason Zeref lost that battle (with Natsu) was plot. Logically speaking, Zeref has 100% control over SBT and Fairy Heart. Frankly, no matter how much Mashima tries to elevate Acnologia or claims the Dragon Gods are on the same level as Acnologia, I absolutely disagree with that. Logically speaking, Zeref has the most hacks in Fairy Tail and, as clearly stated, the most powerful magic. So, frankly, I think we should consider Natsu's situation at that moment to be Low 2-C, and Zeref, Natsu, Acnologia, Mavis being at Low 2-C scale. In this scenario where we consider Zeref superior, all the contradictions disappear. I find it more logical that Natsu is only Low 2-C when he truly uses the power of friendship (linking the infinite power of friendship, guild power, camaraderie, etc., solely to that moment seems more reasonable). This way, 50% of Fairy Tail wouldn't be Low 2-C, and the contradiction would be resolved). We shouldn't agree that the Sealed Forms in Five Dragon God are definitely Low 2-C; it makes sense that their true forms are Low 2-C based on the statement.
 
Alright, after four approvals, I've applied the changes based on Mitch's words here, with everyone relevant in X792 getting the full upscale, and everyone from X793 onwards getting a "possibly" rating alongside their previous one. I'd imagine those would be changed once the arc is done and we can revise 100YQ based on that. This thread can be closed fr this time now, thank you very much for your participation.

Zeinx1 said:
Frankly, I think the reason Zeref lost that battle (with Natsu) was plot. Logically speaking, Zeref has 100% control over SBT and Fairy Heart. Frankly, no matter how much Mashima tries to elevate Acnologia or claims the Dragon Gods are on the same level as Acnologia, I absolutely disagree with that. Logically speaking, Zeref has the most hacks in Fairy Tail and, as clearly stated, the most powerful magic. So, frankly, I think we should consider Natsu's situation at that moment to be Low 2-C, and Zeref, Natsu, Acnologia, Mavis being at Low 2-C scale. In this scenario where we consider Zeref superior, all the contradictions disappear. I find it more logical that Natsu is only Low 2-C when he truly uses the power of friendship (linking the infinite power of friendship, guild power, camaraderie, etc., solely to that moment seems more reasonable). This way, 50% of Fairy Tail wouldn't be Low 2-C, and the contradiction would be resolved). We shouldn't agree that the Sealed Forms in Five Dragon God are definitely Low 2-C; it makes sense that their true forms are Low 2-C based on the statement.
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Yeah, that's kinda how I applied it; just having a possibly rating for 100YQ people and so on. The bigger CRT should cover the inverse though when it eventually drops
 
Saqphire said:
Alright, after four approvals, I've applied the changes based on Mitch's words here, with everyone relevant in X792 getting the full upscale, and everyone from X793 onwards getting a "possibly" rating alongside their previous one. I'd imagine those would be changed once the arc is done and we can revise 100YQ based on that. This thread can be closed fr this time now, thank you very much for your participation.


Yeah, that's kinda how I applied it; just having a possibly rating for 100YQ people and so on. The bigger CRT should cover the inverse though when it eventually drops
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You made a few errors, but I can fix them when I get home from work
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Once again, most of the OG’s were waiting for the present arc to be concluded first since game changing stuff is happening every chapter, but we have a bunch of fresh new users who are eager to make change
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This upgrade is the reason why I joined the wiki like 3 years ago ian gl 😭
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
You made a few errors, but I can fix them when I get home from work
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Do what u gotta do. I upscaled Dragon Force cuz of Aldoron scaling for the record
 
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I just wanna say, my final take was that Sealed Full Power Dragon Gods get the full Low 2-C treatment based on present scaling, but I did not entirely make that clear

I do believe there is enough justification to suggest Full Power Sealed Ignia>Savage Dragon Fire Natsu

But once again, I’ll do the proper revisions when I get home
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I just wanna say, my final take was that Sealed Full Power Dragon Gods get the full Low 2-C treatment based on present scaling, but I did not entirely make that clear

I do believe there is enough justification to suggest Full Power Sealed Ignia>Savage Dragon Fire Natsu

But once again, I’ll do the proper revisions when I get home
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Yeah that's fine tbh
 
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