Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2: Getting to work

[omegabronic]

deoxys black triangle survives the explosion of the meteor, and then deoxys proceeds to destroy it, can we put that in the ap section as well?

 

[Lou_change]

Well that is because of Deoxys having garbage defense stats in its Normal Form, but we don't consider base stats for scaling. That said, it will definitely have the likes of "higher with Attack Form" for AP, "higher with Defense Form" for Durability, and "higher with Speed Form" for Speed

I mean I am concerned because rayquaza is normally able to fight deoxys with in other media so it seems odd is is able to hold its own even briefly against mega rayquaza.

It was shown in the Generations specials that Mega Ray more or less dominates the entire fight, but indeed Deoxys can manage to keep up slightly thanks to form change iirc.

It was able to dodge and briefly block with speed and defense form respectively but it doesn’t look like it even used attack form.

deoxys black triangle survives the explosion of the meteor, and then deoxys proceeds to destroy it, can we put that in the ap section as well?

The generations episode shows it might actually just be the triangle.

 

[omegabronic]

I mean I am concerned because rayquaza is normally able to fight deoxys with in other media so it seems odd is is able to hold its own even briefly against mega rayquaza.

this is what the separation does, it affects mostly legendaries

The generations episode shows it might actually just be the triangle.

wdym?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean I am concerned because rayquaza is normally able to fight deoxys with in other media so it seems odd is is able to hold its own even briefly against mega rayquaza.

Other media is irrelevant. This is a canon split, after all

 

[Lou_change]

Other media is irrelevant. This is a canon split, after all

I assumed that this also exists in the games I referred to other media because I didn’t actually recall the event happening in game. It seems I am simply mistaken.

 

[Sniper670]

Btw here is a sandbox for Meowth's favorite waifu Meowscarada. But i have a few questions to ask

1. The AP, Durability, speed, etc mixes anime and manga. Is there any accepted calcs for the game only versions of these mons
2. How do I handle scans and references. I feel like its redundant when i can just link Bulbapedia at the end.
3. Any suggestions about the sandbox? What do you think of it

 

[Sniper670]

Bump.

What is the statistics of the game version

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump.

What is the statistics of the game version

Currently, it's:

At most Low 7-B | 7-A | High 7-A

The 7-A comes from scaling to 1/10 of the final evos (Girafarig is 1/10 as strong as Farigiraf). Final evos might become 6-C (though it's barely above baseline) if my Abomasnow calc is accepted

 

[omegabronic]

and megas and gigantamax go back to being just 2x instead of 5 not that it ever made sense to scale gigantamax 5x to megas, but this happened before i could question it so, oh well

 

[CloverDragon03]

The 5x came from an anime thing, where some random ass Centiskorch Gigantamaxes and suddenly it takes the combined power of Ash's Pikachu, Dragonite, and Riolu to push back its attack

With the new scaling, yeah that kinda just falls flat, even for the anime canon. Should stick to being 2x via scaling above Thick Club Marowak and Huge Power/Pure Power Pokemon

 

[omegabronic]

didn't play scarlet and violet yet, so without plot spoilers, is terrastalize in the same ballpark as megas and gigantamax(scaling to huge power and thick club)?

 

[CloverDragon03]

didn't play scarlet and violet yet, so without plot spoilers, is terrastalize in the same ballpark as megas and gigantamax(scaling to huge power and thick club)?

Honestly, kinda ambiguous

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

didn't play scarlet and violet yet, so without plot spoilers, is terrastalize in the same ballpark as megas and gigantamax(scaling to huge power and thick club)?

i know it makes moves of the same type stronger but idk how stronger

 

[LordTracer]

Should stick to being 2x via scaling above Thick Club Marowak and Huge Power/Pure Power Pokemon

Not that I disagree, but what was the reasoning for Megas and GMax scaling above that?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Not that I disagree, but what was the reasoning for Megas and GMax scaling above that?

They're both boosts that are in-lore stronger than anything a regular version of the same Pokemon can output

 

[LordTracer]

They're both boosts that are in-lore stronger than anything a regular version of the same Pokemon can output

Mkay. We should add that in the justifications of Mega and GMax mons.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Currently, it's:

At most Low 7-B | 7-A | High 7-A

The 7-A comes from scaling to 1/10 of the final evos (Girafarig is 1/10 as strong as Farigiraf). Final evos might become 6-C (though it's barely above baseline) if my Abomasnow calc is accepted

Send me the Abomasnow calc link, i'll harash ask some of the calc members to evaluate it

 

[CloverDragon03]

Send me the Abomasnow calc link, i'll harash ask some of the calc members to evaluate it

Here you go

 

[Sniper670]

Okay.
AP

At most Low 7-B | 7-A | High 7-A

The 7-A comes from scaling to 1/10 of the final evos (Girafarig is 1/10 as strong as Farigiraf). Final evos might become 6-C (though it's barely above baseline) if my Abomasnow calc is accepted

Speed
Lifting Strength
Durability
Stamina
Range
Intelligence

Need calcs and accepted guidelines for the rest.

 

[omegabronic]

for lifting strengh we have this one of meowstic, idk if it is considered a final evo level tho, but we also have this for machamp

inteligence i think it stays the same? like, most of our profiles have the games in mind i guess?

durability would scale to ap

not sure about the rest tho

 

[CloverDragon03]

Speed

Massively Hypersonic+ for the first two stages (scaling to lightning-based attacks), FTL for final stages (scaling from Golem's calc)

Lifting Strength

If it can learn Strength:

Class K | Class K | Class G

If it can't learn Strength:

Class 10 | Class 25 | Class G

These are all based on calcs I put in the superblog. If anyone has any issues with this scaling, please let me know, as it's the one I'm the most iffy on. Machamp's Class T calc would scale to Mega Evolutions and Gigantamaxes

Durability

Same as AP

Stamina
Range
Intelligence

Stamina and Intelligence should be the same as what we have now, but I'm not sure about Range tbh

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Massively Hypersonic+ for the first two stages (scaling to lightning-based attacks)

actually, even baby pokemon can learn solar beam, at least one, i checked and budew can

 

[Sniper670]

Massively Hypersonic+ for the first two stages (scaling to lightning-based attacks), FTL for final stages (scaling from Golem's calc)

If it can learn Strength:

Class K | Class K | Class G

If it can't learn Strength:

Class 10 | Class 25 | Class G

These are all based on calcs I put in the superblog. If anyone has any issues with this scaling, please let me know, as it's the one I'm the most iffy on. Machamp's Class T calc would scale to Mega Evolutions and Gigantamaxes

Same as AP

Stamina and Intelligence should be the same as what we have now, but I'm not sure about Range tbh

Thanks. This is all I needed.

 

[y3p_owo]

actually, even baby pokemon can learn solar beam, at least one, i checked and budew can

While I haven't found where Budew can learn Solar Beam via leveling, Pokémon like Bulbasaur, Oddish, Sunkern, and Cherubi are perfectly capable of learning it via leveling up, so there's that.

 

[omegabronic]

now that i think about it, shouldn't the lighting dodging be calculated like the ftl wass? because i have saw lighting dodging earning massively hypersonic results instead of massively hypersonic+

 

[CloverDragon03]

now that i think about it, shouldn't the lighting dodging be calculated like the ftl wass? because i have saw lighting dodging earning massively hypersonic results instead of massively hypersonic+

If it's just like how the FTL calc went, then it would be slightly above lightning speed

 

[omegabronic]

yeah, maybe it is not worth it

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

No one has commented on Abomasnow feat so far, looks like i should use the "@" command on that blog at this point lel

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

While I haven't found where Budew can learn Solar Beam via leveling, Pokémon like Bulbasaur, Oddish, Sunkern, and Cherubi are perfectly capable of learning it via leveling up, so there's that.

TMs only teach a pokemon a move, they dont make them any faster, a budew that someone caught and then didnt train at all other than giving it solar beam is still as slow as normal baby pokemon, also, just looked and cleffa, igglybuff, and togepi can also learn it via TM

 

[CloverDragon03]

TMs only teach a pokemon a move, they dont make them any faster, a budew that someone caught and then didnt train at all other than giving it solar beam is still as slow as normal baby pokemon, also, just looked and cleffa, igglybuff, and togepi can also learn it via TM

These are wild Pokemon profiles, which only allow for level up and egg moves. Including TMs would require you to change the standard with a CRT

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/pokemon-protag-profiles.147887/

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

These are wild Pokemon profiles, which only allow for level up and egg moves. Including TMs would require you to change the standard with a CRT

they dont need to have solar beam on their profiles, im just saying baby pokemon should scale to the speed, TMs dont increase stats, baby pokemon can react to solar beams from other untrained baby pokemon

 

[CloverDragon03]

I got some additional things I wanna say about the legendary scaling

they just scaling without any reason doesn't make sense, being a legendary just means that there is myths and legends about them, it doesn't mean that they are comparable to one another just because

These Pokemon are so strong that they have such legends about them, making them significantly superior to final stage Pokemon

I think that because "minor legendaries" are a collective status for the likes of legendary trios such as the birds, the beasts, the genies, etc., they should be a similar rating. I propose that this rating is a downscale to baseline 6-B (7 teratons).

This is because of the legendary birds being portrayed as somewhat comparable to, albeit weaker than, Lugia.

 

[CloverDragon03]

they dont need to have solar beam on their profiles, im just saying baby pokemon should scale to the speed, TMs dont increase stats, baby pokemon can react to solar beams from other untrained baby pokemon

You keep repeating these same few things, and again I say, if baby Pokemon can't learn Solar Beam via level up, it's ineligible. Wild Pokemon don't have access to TMs. It's that simple. Doesn't matter if it doesn't increase stats

 

[omegabronic]

These Pokemon are so strong that they have such legends about them, making them significantly superior to final stage Pokemon

i mean, having legends just means that they are rare or have special abilities or did important things, some are about strength sure, but i don't see why, say, celebi would have because of strength when none of the entries talks about strength

I think that because "minor legendaries" are a collective status for the likes of legendary trios such as the birds, the beasts, the genies, etc., they should be a similar rating. I propose that this rating is a downscale to baseline 6-B (7 teratons).

This is because of the legendary birds being portrayed as somewhat comparable to, albeit weaker than, Lugia.

some contentions:
1 why would any legendarie scale to the birds?
2 i am pretty sure the birds and lugia have absolutely no conections in the games, it is kind of funny how the anime made us associate them so much lol

 

[Sniper670]

Btw I want to start making profiles for Mystery Dungeon Pokémon. Is it allowed?

 

[CloverDragon03]

i mean, having legends just means that they are rare or have special abilities or did important things, some are about strength sure, but i don't see why, say, celebi would have because of strength when none of the entries talks about strength

They're also just very frequently shown as being above any normal Pokemon in power, this really shouldn't be controversial

some contentions:
1 why would any legendarie scale to the birds?
2 i am pretty sure the birds and lugia have absolutely no conections in the games, it is kind of funny how the anime made us associate them so much lol

1. It's pretty much a baseline for legendaries, especially since they're all significantly above final evos
2. Lugia is still considered the master of the bird trio in the games

 

[omegabronic]

They're also just very frequently shown as being above any normal Pokemon in power, this really shouldn't be controversial

it is just that i don't remember most of them showing power? i just want to make sure that it has an explanation listed, maybe just adding some examples and then putting a note on the verse page? just to be safe

1. It's pretty much a baseline for legendaries, especially since they're all significantly above final evos
2. Lugia is still considered the master of the bird trio in the games

1 i don't think i got the point? the legendaries being superior to wild final evos would make the birds baseline because?
2 wait really? huh, can you send a scan? because i can't remember a moment where they where even referred in the same sentence, was it in go?

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

You keep repeating these same few things,

yeah? cause thats my argument? so do you

Doesn't matter if it doesn't increase stats

how

 

[omegabronic]

solar beam needs a trainer to give a tm, therefore training, therefore does not apply to a wild pokemon