• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Theglassman12

VS Battles
Thread Moderator
20,053
10,831
Last edited:
The essence of hyperion is temporary, but yes the logic does apply. With what's accepted, SoL is not an outlier in any way (as we see fodders using it). Agree.
 
I disagree

Reading the thread he simply confirms that they’re faster then the champions, he never actually elaborates on whether this is or without the Essence of Hyperion ability active

For all we know he’s referring to their base movement and combat speed and this is ignoring how the question is very clearly looking for a certain answer.

I’ve been doing my own research on Ascension Kratos and this seems to be way above the level of speed feats so while it isn’t an outlier in the context of tbe verse I’d argue it is one in the context of early Kratos
 
Balder_god_of_war_4_by_gasa979-dce1m49.png
 
The interview in question explicitly mentions the essence of Hyperion being a factor and the guy said they’re not as fast as the twins. Saying it could only be about base speed is headcanon given we have explicit detail here
 
Also almost forgot
Considering the context
The interview in question explicitly mentions the essence of Hyperion being a factor and the guy said they’re not as fast as the twins. Saying it could only be about base speed is headcanon given we have explicit detail here
except in your very scab he specifically mentions “response time” implying we’re talking about this in terms of combat speed. The Essence of Hyperion amplified movement speed so it likely isn’t what he’s talking about here
 
You do know that he also said "speed" as well in the same sentence as response time right? The essence of Hyperion is used in combat, it being movement speed means jack shit when again, the guy referenced the move in question and the WoG said they’re still not faster, you’re nitpicking the conversation and ignoring the fact the guy asked even if the Essence of Hyperion was there would they still be faster, and he said yes.
 
Also almost forgot
Considering the context

except in your very scab he specifically mentions “response time” implying we’re talking about this in terms of combat speed. The Essence of Hyperion amplified movement speed so it likely isn’t what he’s talking about here
He was talking in general here, about how Kratos was superior to other creatures in physical terms, even mentioning other attributes like speed, strenght in the same sentence. When asking if they were as fast as Castor and Pollux the dude placed heavy emphasis on the hyperion essence making them fast, to which the developer replied they were not as fast as the twins. Its pretty clear he is talking about speed in general, he never mentions reaction time in the first answer and I don't see any reason for him to ignore the hyperion essense at all.

So I think Glass has a point here.
 
You do know that he also said "speed" as well in the same sentence as response time right?
I did; it still doesn’t disprove my point we’re assuming the highest possible interpretation is valid here rather then the idea he’s simply faster the. The Warrior sans Hyperion Essence
The essence of Hyperion is used in combat, it being movement speed means jack shit
It’s really not
It’s an ability that simply allows them to dash at light speed sure, but it doesn’t apply to their overall speed stats and we never see anyone react to it in combat
when again, the guy referenced the move in question and the WoG said they’re still not faster, you’re nitpicking the conversation and ignoring the fact the guy asked even if the Essence of Hyperion was there would they still be faster, and he said yes.
He said Kratos is faster because of “rage”, he says nothing himself about the Essence of Hyperion in this context. The one who does say it is the guy very clearly fishing for an answer

Your also ignoring how this makes no sense in the context of Kratos’ scaling at this point, we never see anything on this level from a demigod Kratos and if he’s been FTL for several years his anti feat of being unable to react to Ares’ thrown boulder is ridiculous

Point is it’s not consistent and I address the issues with Kratos’ speed in the Ascension era in my own upcoming revision
 
He was talking in general here, about how Kratos was superior to other creatures in physical terms, even mentioning other attributes like speed, strenght in the same sentence. When asking if they were as fast as Castor and Pollux the dude placed heavy emphasis on the hyperion essence making them fast, to which the developer replied they were not as fast as the twins. Its pretty clear he is talking about speed in general, he never mentions reaction time in the first answer and I don't see any reason for him to ignore the hyperion essense at all.
That’s my point; the dev never Brings attention to the Essence of Hyperion here and were saying he’s accounting for it thanks to the guy asking the question.

The idea you bring up of Kratos being faster In general terms I get but I’m still very against this based on reasons I’ve brought up
 
That’s my point; the dev never Brings attention to the Essence of Hyperion here and were saying he’s accounting for it thanks to the guy asking the question.

The idea you bring up of Kratos being faster In general terms I get but I’m still very against this based on reasons I’ve brought up
Well if you think it is inconsistent I guess its fine, I just personally see not much of a problem with that interpretation of the tweet myself. So I will remain neutral for now and see how the discussion develops.
 
Where's the assumption when we get flat out context that the guy included essence of hyperion and Izzy saying the twins are still faster?

Ares is not an argument when he has infinite speed, stop bringing up Ares when that's a god tier character who's far faster than speed of light. Can you bring up any new arguments cause you're just retreading the same points that are outdated now.
 
Is the debate even needed??
Whether its Hyperion Essence for Champions or Oroborus for Castor&Pollux...Kratos is simply above them...due to his rage which is as natural as breathing to this guy.

Also remember Medusa's gaze is easily dodged by Kratos all the time so its not an outlier.
 
Where's the assumption when we get flat out context that the guy included essence of hyperion and Izzy saying the twins are still faster?
The fact that Izzy never mentions the Essence my dude
Ares is not an argument when he has infinite speed, stop bringing up Ares when that's a god tier character who's far faster than speed of light. Can you bring up any new arguments cause you're just retreading the same points that are outdated now.
Ares is relevant because it was a casual toss and the rock clearly isn’t going at infinite ******* speed because we see in one shot it taking several seconds to reach Kratos

In that case I’d ask you to not use the greater verse to argue consistency and instead focus on other feats in this range Kratos has under his belt or scales to.

Because I haven’t found any and the “old arguments” point is amusing since this is no less then the third time we’re discussing the Essence of Hyperion
 
Also remember Medusa's gaze is easily dodged by Kratos all the time so its not an outlier.
Cool, what light speed traits does Medusa’s gaze have

Do we see it
  • reflect off explicitly non magical sources
  • get stated to be made of light
  • come from a scientifically relevant soirce
  • stated to be made of photons?

It’s a generic energy beam, you may as well argue the Lightning of Zeus from Ascension is light speed
 
The fact that Izzy never mentions the Essence my dude
Entire context of the convo was Oroborus and Essence of Hyperion, and Kratos is superior to them even despite that.
Ares is relevant because it was a casual toss and the rock clearly isn’t going at infinite ******* speed because we see in one shot it taking several seconds to reach Kratos
So you are going to argue screen time now??😐
It’s a generic energy beam, you may as well argue the Lightning of Zeus from Ascension is light speed
I remember some scan about it, gonna search for it.
 
So you are going to argue screen time now??😐
We use screen time to argue timeframes for these kinds of calcs so I’m unsure why it’s a taboo for me to bring this up
I remember some scan about it, gonna search for it.
When you do could you send it to my wall?

I’m planning my own revision and part of it involves upgrading Kratos’ Attack Speed based on the lightning
 
We use screen time to argue timeframes for these kinds of calcs so I’m unsure why it’s a taboo for me to bring this up
I am pretty sure we only use it as last resort when we have no other knowledge of characters speed, especially if all the parties involved are somewhat grounded in speed.
When you do could you send it to my wall?

I’m planning my own revision and part of it involves upgrading Kratos’ Attack Speed based on the
Okay
 
Izzy answering the question by saying the twins are faster when the guy brought up the essence of hyperion is not an assumption, try another argument please.

Ares, who's far faster than Kratos doing something he couldn't react to is not an outlier, again this is the same old argument you tried pulling and tried to back it up with old and outdated feats when we have the verse in a higher speed realm, so stop bringing up Ares and bring an actual outlier for once.
 
Ares, who's far faster than Kratos doing something he couldn't react to is not an outlier, again this is the same old argument you tried pulling and tried to back it up with old and outdated feats when we have the verse in a higher speed realm, so stop bringing up Ares and bring an actual outlier for once.
Bring another FTL feat

You’re arguing we should upgrade 4 keys based on one feat that he scales to even though (to my knowledge at leSt) there’s nothing else on that level
 
First of all, I do not see anything that would be considered an "Outlier" yeah. But where's the reason for the feat being FTL to begin with? I wouldn't consider a random chat much evidence. I'd prefer either in game examples and/or an animation of the "Laser" example of the feat.
 
First of all, I do not see anything that would be considered an "Outlier" yeah. But where's the reason for the feat being FTL to begin with? I wouldn't consider a random chat much evidence. I'd prefer either in game examples and/or an animation of the "Laser" example of the feat.
The reason is the Essence of Hyperion is accepted as Light Speed so the WOG is to justify Kratos being FTL based off that
 
"Advancing your enemy at the speed of light" doesn't sound like something enough to qualify as accepted at light speed; that's a common hyperbole. Kratos being able it is fine, but why was this even accepted at speed of light to begin with?
 
"Advancing your enemy at the speed of light" doesn't sound like something enough to qualify as accepted at light speed; that's a common hyperbole. Kratos being able it is fine, but why was this even accepted at speed of light to begin with?
Mostly from the statement and the fact Hyperion was a solar deity (I think it's only in terms of movement we use it)
 
If it's made literal that he moves as fast as the sun's light, then I suppose it's fine and I can support this.
 
If it's made literal that he moves as fast as the sun's light, then I suppose it's fine and I can support this.
Yeah Essence is fine, that said I am going to poke a hole in it for you (mainly since I'm actually back home now lol)

If it helps either side of the discussion; here are the feats I've got
  1. In the GOW comics a weaker Kratos makes some airburst by moving
  2. Dodges Arrow
  3. This Platform Feat
  4. Kratos dodges Boat
  5. Kratos reacts to spear
  6. The absolute best feat; Persephone is able to block (with difficulty) the Light of Dawn's blasts (I'm unsure if she was hit by this or blocked in time)
  7. Kratos somewhat reacts to Persephone's death (which you could argue is him reacting to the light)
In fairness these are just the ones I dug up and most are casual but if we want to say the FTL is consistent I suggest calcing the Persephone feat if applicable
 
About Chains of Olympus stuff.....Persephone and Kratos with Gauntlet of Zeus should be straight up infinite speed.
Kratos blitzed and chained Atlas into holding the Heaven who is infinite speed, same Kratos was given hardtime by Charon and Persephone,these guys able to stomp Kratos if he did not have Gauntlet of Zeus. So these guys all scale to each other in speed.
 
About Chains of Olympus stuff.....Persephone and Kratos with Gauntlet of Zeus should be straight up infinite speed.
Kratos blitzed and chained Atlas into holding the Heaven who is infinite speed, same Kratos was given hardtime by Charon and Persephone,these guys able to stomp Kratos if he did not have Gauntlet of Zeus. So these guys all scale to each other in speed.
I'm unsure
Persephone seems like a minor deity and Atlas likely isn't at his prime considering Hades devoured his soul
 
He may not be in prime but he is still performing 2C/low2C/High3A feat by sustaining the macrocosm in place of World Pillar, I mean this guy braught down Helios iirc. I doubt his speed is so low compared to his prime when his AP is not.

And lets not forget in GoW2, Kratos was struggling under fingers of Atlas, couldn't escape him. Kratos being 2C and infinite speed here.

So Atlas still forms the Benchmark from which Kratos with Zeus Gauntlets, Persephone and Charon scale.

Man am I derailing......but it is GoW speed Upgrades so kek.
 
Do we have a timevframe for that?
This mostly comes under my own planned revisions but this would give Ascension Kratos MHS+ Attack Speed at the very least (which would apply tothe Warriors)

You could argue Infinite based on it seemingly being the same as Zeus but that's just me
We could calc this based off gameplay but idk
I can't make out what it says can you summarize?
 
I can't make out what it says can you summarize?
Basically says she can petrify with simple gaze, I am paraphrasing. Nothing about speed of light sadly. ~~Besides Staring which should be speed of light~~

Also I edited my comment and Added a new feat for Cestus of Zeus from Multiplayer.
 
Persephone does actually block it, I have the scan saved in my PC so I'll post that later.

I brought the Persephone's death feat up in the Norse Kratos abilities addition thread. That is most likely Kratos reacting to light since the actual physical explosion happens way after Kratos' reaction feat.

Also I don't mind these being calculated as just normal reaction to light feats but I feel like they should be Infinite speed feats tbh since Kratos utilizes the Primordial Fire to actually do these attacks which is the source of Helios' power. There's also him dodging that attack from Atlas but even if this isn't accepted, it should still be an upgrade over his current ratings.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top