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Harem dragon vs cursed lonely dragon
- Thread starter Kisaragi_Megumi
- Start date
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Can someone explain to me how Armor of Fafnir works?
Is it like some sort of ability that greatly reduced most incoming attack or what?
Is it like some sort of ability that greatly reduced most incoming attack or what?
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Thats Tharsh armor can nullified anything who i below A rank,and if you hit it with A rank attack,its reduced to E rabk,thats my explanation,anything?
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It's a form of invulnerability that super buffs his durability and magic resist.
With Armour of Fafnir, any attack (physical or magical) that is not equivalent to a A rank attack from the Nasuverse (mountain level) gets outright nullified, and any attacks that are equivalent to an A rank attack get reduced to tiny scratches that can be healed in a couple seconds.
It's also not literally armour, it's a property of his body after he bathed in and drank the blood of the evil dragon Fafnir.
It also gets even stronger defense bonuses in some situations, but those sitations will largely not apply here due to Issei having Ascalon, a weapon with dragon slaying properties that nullifies the bonuses
With Armour of Fafnir, any attack (physical or magical) that is not equivalent to a A rank attack from the Nasuverse (mountain level) gets outright nullified, and any attacks that are equivalent to an A rank attack get reduced to tiny scratches that can be healed in a couple seconds.
It's also not literally armour, it's a property of his body after he bathed in and drank the blood of the evil dragon Fafnir.
It also gets even stronger defense bonuses in some situations, but those sitations will largely not apply here due to Issei having Ascalon, a weapon with dragon slaying properties that nullifies the bonuses
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So, basically, Armor of Fafnir is not an physical armor but rather an abilility that nullify most attack?
Would I be correct if I assume so?
Would I be correct if I assume so?
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Armor of Fafnir: Blood Armor of the Evil Dragon: A Noble Phantasm that embodies the legend in which Siegfried bathed in and swallowed blood of the evil dragon Fafnir, gaining the "invincible body of a dragon" in the process. As a result, Siegfried's skin and organs are tougher than the strongest steel, completely nullifying anything less than an A-Rank physical attack capable of shattering mountains or magecraft from the Age of Gods. Even Achilles, one of the most famous heroes in the world, failed to leave a scratch on Siegfried due to this Noble Phantasm. Attacks that can penetrate the armor's protective effects have their effects greatly reduced, as even the blows of the mighty hero Karna, which are able to easily sunder the bodies of Servants, gouge their vital organs, and dismember their bodies, are unable to leave more than scratches that are easily healed through Siegfried's connection with his Master.
When utilized against abilities on the level of a Noble Phantasm, it effects are further strengthened. However, Noble Phantasm-class abilities used by antiheroes, heroes legendary for their feats of slaying dragons, or wielding dragon slaying weapons or spells will bypass the bonus defense against Noble Phantasm-class abilities.
It's not a physical armour. But it's not exactly an "ability" either. More just a passive property of his body.
When utilized against abilities on the level of a Noble Phantasm, it effects are further strengthened. However, Noble Phantasm-class abilities used by antiheroes, heroes legendary for their feats of slaying dragons, or wielding dragon slaying weapons or spells will bypass the bonus defense against Noble Phantasm-class abilities.
It's not a physical armour. But it's not exactly an "ability" either. More just a passive property of his body.
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Wel, I would argue that Penetrate should be able to bypass Armor of Fafnir due to its feat of bypassing Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceller, which is very similiar with Armor of Fafnir.
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So basically the same case as Rivezim's. Penetrate's penetrate (pun is intentional if that counts as one)
Edit: Ninja'd
Edit: Ninja'd
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Yeah pretty much. Also
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)´╗┐
P.S Obivous pun is obvious
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)´╗┐
P.S Obivous pun is obvious
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Lol XD
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Does Rizevim have a profile here?
Because his DxD wiki page says:
Sacred Gear Canceller (þÑ×ÕÖ¿þäíÕè╣ÕîûÒé╗ÒéñÒé»Òâ¬ÒââÒâëÒâ╗Òé«ÒéóÒâ╗Òé¡ÒâúÒâ│Òé╗Òâ®Òâ╝, Seikuriddo Gia Kyanser─ü): He possessed a unique ability which could nullify almost all Sacred Gear abilities and of Sacred Gear-enchanted powers just by touch. However, it was incapable of nullifying Ddraig's Penetrate ability. Also, as powerful it was, the Sacred Gear Canceller had a limit, albeit a very high limit, to the amount of power it can nullify. This was shown when Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceller was overpowered by Issei's Diabolos Drago.
So three things
1) Assuming that Sacred Gear Canceller and Armour of Fafnir are equivalent, Rizevim needs to be just as strong as Siegfried, otherwise it's simply a matter of Rizevim being weaker than Issei and unable to nullify that much power.
2) We can't assume SGC and AoF to be equivalent so 1) is irrelevant, because from its description, you realise you are talking about power nullification right? Armour of Fafnir isn't Power Nullification, it's Invulnerability.
3) And unlike this Sacrd Gear, having "a high amount of power" can't bypass Armour of Fafnir. It's not God Hand. Regardless of how powerful the attack, it's still going to have an equivalent to 4 ranks of damage taken from it, which is enough to turn A rank attacks into E rank attacks. While there is a limit to how much damage it can stop, it isn't just going to take the full damage of the attack after it passes that limit. It's still going to nullify a good portion of it.
Because his DxD wiki page says:
Sacred Gear Canceller (þÑ×ÕÖ¿þäíÕè╣ÕîûÒé╗ÒéñÒé»Òâ¬ÒââÒâëÒâ╗Òé«ÒéóÒâ╗Òé¡ÒâúÒâ│Òé╗Òâ®Òâ╝, Seikuriddo Gia Kyanser─ü): He possessed a unique ability which could nullify almost all Sacred Gear abilities and of Sacred Gear-enchanted powers just by touch. However, it was incapable of nullifying Ddraig's Penetrate ability. Also, as powerful it was, the Sacred Gear Canceller had a limit, albeit a very high limit, to the amount of power it can nullify. This was shown when Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceller was overpowered by Issei's Diabolos Drago.
So three things
1) Assuming that Sacred Gear Canceller and Armour of Fafnir are equivalent, Rizevim needs to be just as strong as Siegfried, otherwise it's simply a matter of Rizevim being weaker than Issei and unable to nullify that much power.
2) We can't assume SGC and AoF to be equivalent so 1) is irrelevant, because from its description, you realise you are talking about power nullification right? Armour of Fafnir isn't Power Nullification, it's Invulnerability.
3) And unlike this Sacrd Gear, having "a high amount of power" can't bypass Armour of Fafnir. It's not God Hand. Regardless of how powerful the attack, it's still going to have an equivalent to 4 ranks of damage taken from it, which is enough to turn A rank attacks into E rank attacks. While there is a limit to how much damage it can stop, it isn't just going to take the full damage of the attack after it passes that limit. It's still going to nullify a good portion of it.
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Well, whille SGC and AoF is not completely the same, SGC and AoF is similliar at the very least as both of them act as defensive measure for the user and Penetrate is as abiliity that allows Issei to bypass those defensive measure.
Sadly, Penetrate currently doesn't have any feat of bypassing Invulnerability but I would argue that is should have some effect to some extent.
Anyway doesn't Issei still have Ascalon, which would allow Issei to bypass AoF?
Sadly, Penetrate currently doesn't have any feat of bypassing Invulnerability but I would argue that is should have some effect to some extent.
Anyway doesn't Issei still have Ascalon, which would allow Issei to bypass AoF?
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When utilized against abilities on the level of a Noble Phantasm, it effects are further strengthened. However, Noble Phantasm-class abilities used by antiheroes, heroes legendary for their feats of slaying dragons, or wielding dragon slaying weapons or spells will bypass the bonus defense against Noble Phantasm-class abilities.
This is the only part that talks about dragon slaying weapons bypassing it, and it only works against the bonus defense, not the basic "B rank and lower get nulled, A rank gets turned to E"
This is the only part that talks about dragon slaying weapons bypassing it, and it only works against the bonus defense, not the basic "B rank and lower get nulled, A rank gets turned to E"
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1. The first time Issei used Penetrate he was fighting barehand and effectively punched Rizevim away while Rizevim himself could tank at least city block+ attack with little trouble.
2. AoF is still a type of defense that prevents attack from damaging Siegfried. Penetrate allows Issei to bypass defense.
3. Atalante could stun Siegfried with pure power, while this won't defeat him it would give Issei enough time to use stronger attack such as Crimson Blaster with Ascalon aura.
2. AoF is still a type of defense that prevents attack from damaging Siegfried. Penetrate allows Issei to bypass defense.
3. Atalante could stun Siegfried with pure power, while this won't defeat him it would give Issei enough time to use stronger attack such as Crimson Blaster with Ascalon aura.
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"Tank city block+ attack without trouble" ... you realise these people are Mountain level right? And that's just dura, not invulnerability.
No, it allows him to bypass defenses that stop him from touching his target directly. The most Penetrate will get through is Siegfreid's conventional armour, not AoF.
Crimson Blaster with Ascalon Aura would still get blocked by AoF. Ascalon just bypasses the bonus damage reduction, not the base.
Meanwhile, Siegfried is throwing out Balmung blasts with Dragon Slayer skill making them extra lethal to Issei
No, it allows him to bypass defenses that stop him from touching his target directly. The most Penetrate will get through is Siegfreid's conventional armour, not AoF.
Crimson Blaster with Ascalon Aura would still get blocked by AoF. Ascalon just bypasses the bonus damage reduction, not the base.
Meanwhile, Siegfried is throwing out Balmung blasts with Dragon Slayer skill making them extra lethal to Issei
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Rizevim would be High 7-A or 6-C if he had a profile.
Issei bypassed his ability and gave him a bloody nose in base. Rizevim is much stronger than CxC Issei in the first place. The fact that base Issei messed his face up should be...impressive, I guess?
Well, the Sacred Gear Canceller situation is still confusing to me. There was nothing conventional to be bypassed. Any Sacred Gear user Rizevim makes contact with just gets their abilities nullified. It's just like Diehauser's Worthless which nullifies and invalidates abilities would have been useless against Penetrate.
Just saying, I'm not going to get into the Penetrate vs Armor of Fafnir argument.
@New
Bro, it's Boosted Gear.
Issei bypassed his ability and gave him a bloody nose in base. Rizevim is much stronger than CxC Issei in the first place. The fact that base Issei messed his face up should be...impressive, I guess?
Well, the Sacred Gear Canceller situation is still confusing to me. There was nothing conventional to be bypassed. Any Sacred Gear user Rizevim makes contact with just gets their abilities nullified. It's just like Diehauser's Worthless which nullifies and invalidates abilities would have been useless against Penetrate.
Just saying, I'm not going to get into the Penetrate vs Armor of Fafnir argument.
@New
Bro, it's Boosted Gear.
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Are you missing the fact that Issei could use Penetrate on his eyes and see through stuffs? He was obviously not touching anything with his eyes and Penetrate still worked so yes Penetrate will get through AoF because AoF prevents Issei from hurting Siegfried.
Crimson Blaster damaged Sairaorg who has mountain+ durability. Also where did you get the B+ attack = mountain buster? Heracles who has A+ strength didn't instantly wipe out anyone during the 5th war.
Anyway from vol 5 Issei already has mountain buster attack in balance breaker, it's not really a problem for him.
Crimson Blaster damaged Sairaorg who has mountain+ durability. Also where did you get the B+ attack = mountain buster? Heracles who has A+ strength didn't instantly wipe out anyone during the 5th war.
Anyway from vol 5 Issei already has mountain buster attack in balance breaker, it's not really a problem for him.
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X ray vision = bypassing invulnerability now does it? Your logic is flawed. AoF does not prevent Issei from touching Siegfreid.
When did I say B+ equals mountain buster? But you are right actually. A B+ attack is stronger than an A rank. On the stat scale they have, B = 40 points, A = 50 points and B+ = 80 points. The + doubles it. Hercules wasn't wiping everyone out because everyone was skilled enough not to get hit directly for the most part.
When did I say B+ equals mountain buster? But you are right actually. A B+ attack is stronger than an A rank. On the stat scale they have, B = 40 points, A = 50 points and B+ = 80 points. The + doubles it. Hercules wasn't wiping everyone out because everyone was skilled enough not to get hit directly for the most part.
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AoF prevents Issei from hurting Siegfried which is exactly what Penetrate can bypass since AoF is a type of defense. Penetrate goes through defense and obstacles as shown.
Here is your quote:
"With Armour of Fafnir, any attack (physical or magical) that is not equivalent to a A rank attack from the Nasuverse (mountain level) gets outright nullified, and any attacks that are equivalent to an A rank attack get reduced to tiny scratches that can be healed in a couple seconds."
You mean Heracles didn't instantly turn Kojiro into mud or the graveyard into dust the moment he swung around.
Here is your quote:
"With Armour of Fafnir, any attack (physical or magical) that is not equivalent to a A rank attack from the Nasuverse (mountain level) gets outright nullified, and any attacks that are equivalent to an A rank attack get reduced to tiny scratches that can be healed in a couple seconds."
You mean Heracles didn't instantly turn Kojiro into mud or the graveyard into dust the moment he swung around.
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No, penetrate goes through defences that prevent him from touching the target. That's what the ability says. AoF is not armour preventing him from touching the target, it's an inherent property of his body. AoF is the target. It's not "lets issei bypass anything that would stop him doing full damage", it's "bypass defences that stops him from hitting the target".
AoE doesn't equal AP. And scaling servants by stats is probably getting removed soon, there's revisions being done for it
AoE doesn't equal AP. And scaling servants by stats is probably getting removed soon, there's revisions being done for it
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How Penetrate works in the story:
"
He said with a tone of disbelief, rubbing his face while lying down. It looks like blood from his nose had been sprayed all over his face. I slowly approached him as he lay on the ground, pulled him up by his hair, then punched his face again. He tumbled onto the ground again, still in disbelief. As I walked over to him I said
"—This is one of Ddraig's abilities when he was alive, 'Penetrate'. The power of my attack was transmitted directly to your body."
"
Word of God:
"Issei gained the power to hit Rizevim! One of Ddraig's abilities when he was alive was discovered [Penetrate]. By penetrating through, his power is directly transmitted. When using it, it can ignore barriers, and directly send the power through, but, because it was recently discovered, it can only do so much."
"
He said with a tone of disbelief, rubbing his face while lying down. It looks like blood from his nose had been sprayed all over his face. I slowly approached him as he lay on the ground, pulled him up by his hair, then punched his face again. He tumbled onto the ground again, still in disbelief. As I walked over to him I said
"—This is one of Ddraig's abilities when he was alive, 'Penetrate'. The power of my attack was transmitted directly to your body."
"
Word of God:
"Issei gained the power to hit Rizevim! One of Ddraig's abilities when he was alive was discovered [Penetrate]. By penetrating through, his power is directly transmitted. When using it, it can ignore barriers, and directly send the power through, but, because it was recently discovered, it can only do so much."
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Yes, I see your point, @Touhou.
Basically, you're saying that Armor of Fafnir would not block Penetrate because the attack strikes Siegfried's body.
The point is, Armor of Fafnir IS Siegfried's body. It's just a name given to the combination of all the muscles and bones and nerves and whatever else is in his body.
Armor of Fafnir, in this case, allows Siegfried to tank a flat amount of damage with no negative consequences whatsoever; that number goes up when he's faced with NP-class attacks. I daresay Penetrate isn't strong enough to overwhelm Armor of Fafnir, or, in other words, Siegfried's innate durability.
And I'm pretty sure Siegfried can tag Issei. Do I have to explain how Issei being a Dragon and Siegfried's attacks being especially lethal to Dragons would mean bad news for Issei? Remember, it's something that specifically counters a species that Issei is a categorically stated member of.
Basically, you're saying that Armor of Fafnir would not block Penetrate because the attack strikes Siegfried's body.
The point is, Armor of Fafnir IS Siegfried's body. It's just a name given to the combination of all the muscles and bones and nerves and whatever else is in his body.
Armor of Fafnir, in this case, allows Siegfried to tank a flat amount of damage with no negative consequences whatsoever; that number goes up when he's faced with NP-class attacks. I daresay Penetrate isn't strong enough to overwhelm Armor of Fafnir, or, in other words, Siegfried's innate durability.
And I'm pretty sure Siegfried can tag Issei. Do I have to explain how Issei being a Dragon and Siegfried's attacks being especially lethal to Dragons would mean bad news for Issei? Remember, it's something that specifically counters a species that Issei is a categorically stated member of.
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Armor of Fafnir is still a type of defense and count as one as it prevents Siegfried from taking damage. When it is in effect it tanks any attack that isn't higher than its rank so Siegfried himself receives no damage. What Penetrate does is goes through AoF (the defense) and deals damage to Siegfried's body.
The wyvern can tank Balmung and reduce its attack or Issei can offset it with Dragon Shot. Siegfried really has no answer to someone with really good long range attack, the moment Issei learns that he's Siegfried he will try to go for his back which he actually can with his wyvern.
Does Boosted Gear and its variants count as Noble Phantasm?
The wyvern can tank Balmung and reduce its attack or Issei can offset it with Dragon Shot. Siegfried really has no answer to someone with really good long range attack, the moment Issei learns that he's Siegfried he will try to go for his back which he actually can with his wyvern.
Does Boosted Gear and its variants count as Noble Phantasm?
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Again, in this case (we're not talking FGO-Siegfried here, we're talking Siegfried-Siegfried), Armor of Fafnir IS HIS BODY.
Sure, Penetrate can and will hit Siegfried's body. But it won't damage him to any significant degree. That's the point.
Same goes for Issei's defesive. Siegfried attacking will damage Issei, and it would hurt more than what that attack would do to another non-Dragon combatant. How MUCH it will damage Issei and consequently deterr him is another question.
Please do not get the illusion that either of them will win this fight unscathed or without taking hits. Regardless of who wins.
Grail War rules do not apply here. Issei knowing that his enemy is Siegfried will not ring any bells, except maybe a comparison to the Siegfried in his verse. He will not innately understand Siegfried's weakess because:
1) He has not studied and does not know anything about Siegfried's legend;
2) Verse equalization does not cover Grail War rules. If it does, Siegfried knowing Issei's True Name would give knowledge of Issei's weaknesses, which would be pretty bad. Sure, he'd know Siegfried's weaknesses as well, but remember, Siegfried is the natural enemy of anything Dragon. Which Issei is.
A Noble Phantasm is defined as a signature of the Servant. In Issei's case, as a Stu Protagonist*, most Big Moves he's pulled would count as Noble Phantasms, especially ones completely unique to his person. For ANY NP, Offensive, Defensive or Supportive, how powerful they are is defined by how well-known it is**.
Sure, Penetrate can and will hit Siegfried's body. But it won't damage him to any significant degree. That's the point.
Same goes for Issei's defesive. Siegfried attacking will damage Issei, and it would hurt more than what that attack would do to another non-Dragon combatant. How MUCH it will damage Issei and consequently deterr him is another question.
Please do not get the illusion that either of them will win this fight unscathed or without taking hits. Regardless of who wins.
Grail War rules do not apply here. Issei knowing that his enemy is Siegfried will not ring any bells, except maybe a comparison to the Siegfried in his verse. He will not innately understand Siegfried's weakess because:
1) He has not studied and does not know anything about Siegfried's legend;
2) Verse equalization does not cover Grail War rules. If it does, Siegfried knowing Issei's True Name would give knowledge of Issei's weaknesses, which would be pretty bad. Sure, he'd know Siegfried's weaknesses as well, but remember, Siegfried is the natural enemy of anything Dragon. Which Issei is.
A Noble Phantasm is defined as a signature of the Servant. In Issei's case, as a Stu Protagonist*, most Big Moves he's pulled would count as Noble Phantasms, especially ones completely unique to his person. For ANY NP, Offensive, Defensive or Supportive, how powerful they are is defined by how well-known it is**.
- Yes, I'm calling Issei a Gary Stu, at least to a larger extent. Do you really want to defend him on that one?
- Example: If Guy Fawkes became a Servant, his innate abilites would be weak due to him having been a normal person in life and largely unknown apart from his mask. However, his Noble Phantasm--which I imagine would involve explosions--would be extremely powerful, just from how well-known and legendary it is.
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You realise that proves what I've been saying?Touhou ranfuku said:
There is no barrier to be ignored, and the power of his attack being transmitted directly to his body doesn't mean much when it's his body that has invulnerability
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I haven't actually voted yet. Siegfried probably outskills him by a significant margin, but I'm waiting for a calc to see what their respective AP values are.
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Armor of Fafnir is the trash armor and overrated armor.
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Trash armor is trash.
BTW,counted.
-Issei : 1 (New)
-Sieg : 0
BTW,counted.
-Issei : 1 (New)
-Sieg : 0
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Hey, Velox.
If you're going to blatantly favor one side, namely Issei, you should close this. I mean it.
I enjoyed your Kurumi vs Nobu thread, which is why I came here at all, but you're obviously biased in this case, if not against Seigfried then against Sieg.
Trust me, I sympathize with Sieg (not just because of the hate directed at him instead of the writer), but I don't love him either.You're going a little overboard with this one. Just because it was the main argument favoring Siegfried doesn't automatically make it 'trash' and 'overrated'.
Well, you could provide solid evidence of Armor of Fafnir being overrated. I'm waiting.
If you're going to blatantly favor one side, namely Issei, you should close this. I mean it.
I enjoyed your Kurumi vs Nobu thread, which is why I came here at all, but you're obviously biased in this case, if not against Seigfried then against Sieg.
Trust me, I sympathize with Sieg (not just because of the hate directed at him instead of the writer), but I don't love him either.You're going a little overboard with this one. Just because it was the main argument favoring Siegfried doesn't automatically make it 'trash' and 'overrated'.
Well, you could provide solid evidence of Armor of Fafnir being overrated. I'm waiting.
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Did I?
I don't remember that.
I've been waiting for the calc.
And what hax advantage is this? Penetrate is useless, spatial manipulation is useless
I don't remember that.
I've been waiting for the calc.
And what hax advantage is this? Penetrate is useless, spatial manipulation is useless
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Oh, come on.
How are we supposed to make a good case for Siegfried if you're going to play 'I can do it too'?
Neither of those would be useless in any sense of the word.
Penetrate might not be able to damage him, but if Issei plays psychology and pretends it can hurt him, he can keep Siegfried somewhat at bay out of concern of Penetrate's supposed properties.
How are we supposed to make a good case for Siegfried if you're going to play 'I can do it too'?
Neither of those would be useless in any sense of the word.
Penetrate might not be able to damage him, but if Issei plays psychology and pretends it can hurt him, he can keep Siegfried somewhat at bay out of concern of Penetrate's supposed properties.
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Penetrate won't do anything, and Siegfreid's no fool. Not to mention he appears to be wearing armour, and Issei would most likely attempt to use it on him before realising it doesn't work. At which point Siegfreid knows it doesn't work. And AoF lets him resist spatial manipulation, so yes, it's useless.
Siegfreid is not only scalable in skill to people who are so good at fighting that they can dodge undodgeable attacks and effectively see the future, people who skilled enough to battle people far stronger and faster than they are, think 10 steps ahead of their opponent, get a comeback as long as they have a 1% chance of doing so, and accurately block attacks they can't even see, and people who are so good that they can use literally anything that enters their hands as a weapon on par with a Noble Phantasm, he's also good enough to fight with Karna and Mordred, both of whom are skilled warriors in their own rights. What's Issei's best display of skill?
Siegfreid is not only scalable in skill to people who are so good at fighting that they can dodge undodgeable attacks and effectively see the future, people who skilled enough to battle people far stronger and faster than they are, think 10 steps ahead of their opponent, get a comeback as long as they have a 1% chance of doing so, and accurately block attacks they can't even see, and people who are so good that they can use literally anything that enters their hands as a weapon on par with a Noble Phantasm, he's also good enough to fight with Karna and Mordred, both of whom are skilled warriors in their own rights. What's Issei's best display of skill?
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Pretty sure Siegfried lacks feats for that claim. Though yes, I'd agree on how he'd be able to stand his ground against people like that. Maybe even win, but hey, E-Rank Luck.
Issei's best claim over Siegfried is his outrageous luck as a Stu Protag. He's similar to Sieg in that regard, but he's more likable for...reasons. Which I will never understand nor accept. Sieg at least had a good concept. Issei's probably started out as 'I groped, I seduced, I made kids.'
I want some proof on Armor of Fafnir resisting spatial manip. Give me links.
Issei can bluff, if nothing else. Under SBA, they know fck all about each other except that the other has to die for reasons, and Siegfried doesn't wear much visible armament, so Issei would probably not flash Penetrate so early on.
Issei's best claim over Siegfried is his outrageous luck as a Stu Protag. He's similar to Sieg in that regard, but he's more likable for...reasons. Which I will never understand nor accept. Sieg at least had a good concept. Issei's probably started out as 'I groped, I seduced, I made kids.'
I want some proof on Armor of Fafnir resisting spatial manip. Give me links.
Issei can bluff, if nothing else. Under SBA, they know fck all about each other except that the other has to die for reasons, and Siegfried doesn't wear much visible armament, so Issei would probably not flash Penetrate so early on.
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Well I'm afraid that "outrageous luck as a Stu Protag" , AKA PIS and bad writing, is not an argument in a vs debate. So if that's all you got, it's nothing and Sieg seriously outskills him. And yes, he is scalable. He, or at least Sieg with all of Siegfreid's skills, battles evenly with Karna and Mordred, Mordred very nearly beats Arturia (and does fatally wound her), Arturia beats Lancelot and Archer. And E rank luck is still probably better luck than most humans would have, considering even a servant with E rank strength is still completely superior to the average human.
Armour of Fafnir protects against both physical and magical attacks, having given him "the invincible body of a dragon" and replaced his magic resistance. In Fate, Dragons are extremely high class monsters with extremely high magical power and magical resistance. Hence why Arturia with her dragon blood has such ridiculously high Magic Resist. And Magic Resistance includes resistance to spatial manipulation, the showing of which I'm sure I've linked already.
What, so he's going to say "I have an ability called Penetrate that will do a ton of damage to you so you better stay back", and then Siegfreid is just going to stay back? Yeah no. Not a chance of that happening. Bluffing would not stop Siegfreid.
Armour of Fafnir protects against both physical and magical attacks, having given him "the invincible body of a dragon" and replaced his magic resistance. In Fate, Dragons are extremely high class monsters with extremely high magical power and magical resistance. Hence why Arturia with her dragon blood has such ridiculously high Magic Resist. And Magic Resistance includes resistance to spatial manipulation, the showing of which I'm sure I've linked already.
What, so he's going to say "I have an ability called Penetrate that will do a ton of damage to you so you better stay back", and then Siegfreid is just going to stay back? Yeah no. Not a chance of that happening. Bluffing would not stop Siegfreid.
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Hey, hey! I'm on your side in this one! I just want solid, concrete proof so nobody can say 'trash', 'overrated' and other vitriol.
And more importantly, I support facts, like how Kurumi is stronger than Fate Nobunaga.
Issei, even as a Stu (I even outright said he's a Stu, why did you not get the message I'm on your side?), has had his share of legit fights due to how long his franchise has been going on. He doesn't really lose that much ground in terms of experience and skill.
Arturia resisted Medea's Command Seal, and that's a serious argument because they're supposed to be an inviolable order from Master to Servant. Siegfried is at that level?
Ah, no. I was thinking more along the lines of Issei daring to fight Siegfried even while he's a Dragon, and he says something like 'Of course I got tricks, I wouldn't stand here if I thought I'd lose.'
If Siegfried is in character, that would give him some pause. Not much, but he'd definitely be looking out and on guard, which consequently gives Issei a little more space. Not exactly Bluffing, but you get my point, right?
Link it again, I couldn't find it.
And more importantly, I support facts, like how Kurumi is stronger than Fate Nobunaga.
Issei, even as a Stu (I even outright said he's a Stu, why did you not get the message I'm on your side?), has had his share of legit fights due to how long his franchise has been going on. He doesn't really lose that much ground in terms of experience and skill.
Arturia resisted Medea's Command Seal, and that's a serious argument because they're supposed to be an inviolable order from Master to Servant. Siegfried is at that level?
Ah, no. I was thinking more along the lines of Issei daring to fight Siegfried even while he's a Dragon, and he says something like 'Of course I got tricks, I wouldn't stand here if I thought I'd lose.'
If Siegfried is in character, that would give him some pause. Not much, but he'd definitely be looking out and on guard, which consequently gives Issei a little more space. Not exactly Bluffing, but you get my point, right?
Link it again, I couldn't find it.
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