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Harem dragon vs cursed lonely dragon

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I'd like to hear about some of these fights then.

Arturia's Magic Resist is A rank, which was enough to resist, albeit briefly. Siegfreid's is not on that level, but it's very close, essentially being B rank due to how AoF works.

Considering they've both been thrown into the fight with the order to kill each other by R.O.B, I doubt "I wouldn't stand here if I thought I'd lose" is applicable. And Issei doesn't know about Siegfreid's Dragon Slaying abilities.

https://youtu.be/mBBKLYCvF6o?t=272 - Caster freezes the space around Archer

https://youtu.be/mBBKLYCvF6o?t=298 - Archer moves anyway, then casually breaks free by flexing.

https://youtu.be/EjM8DkcRu_Y?t=62 - Gilgamesh (who's magic resist without armour is only E rank BTW) stands within the space-time disloaction effect of Ea's activation with no problems.
 
I think there is not a calc for Issei's 7-A AP, it seems that he is just far more superiour to his lower forms which are 7-B, he also defeat other 7-As whos are baseline.

Let look for.something.
 
Are you implying that Issei doesn't know about Siegfried and his legend even though he was that famous (this is the entire point of why his master didn't want anyone in his side to know the real identity of Siegfried)? Or are you suggesting that even Ddraig a dragon that is older than Siegfried wouldn't know about him? Just by hearing Balmung (the entire point of not using noble phantasm is because people can learn about the servant's real identity) and noticing the tough body are enough for them to know that they're fighting Siegfried and the real Siegfried has a weakness on his back.

If we're using grail war rules then both of them have dragon-slayer weakness and that's it (what are Siegfried going to do with Issei's perversion? There's nothing he can do). In fact Ddraig would be even stronger since he was stronger than Fafnir in real life and it took God to bring him down. We're not using grail war rules but what I wanted to ask was for that do we count Boosted Gear as noble phantasm. If yes then Issei will have to use stronger attack if he wants to beat Siegfried.

You either don't know what's a Gary Stu or have a very specific definition for it but we're not discussing it here. One important note for Gary Stu is that he never loses a fight and always does things right, he also has no flaws as a character and born a special snowflake. Issei wishes he was a Gary Stu.

The barrier is Armor of Fafnir because no matter how you word it it is still a type of defense with limitation. It is not completely invulnerable. Besides Atalanta can stun and pierced through Siegfried and Issei has far more powerful long range attack than hers (Crimson Blaster and Longinus Smasher). Even if his attack cannot kill him directly they will be enough to destroy his sword.

In a melee fight Siegfried could win but in a long range fight Issei has the bigger chance to win.
 
Touhou ranfuku said:
Are you implying that Issei doesn't know about Siegfried and his legend even though he was that famous (this is the entire point of why his master didn't want anyone in his side to know the real identity of Siegfried)? Or are you suggesting that even Ddraig a dragon that is older than Siegfried wouldn't know about him? Just by hearing Balmung (the entire point of not using noble phantasm is because people can learn about the servant's real identity) and noticing the tough body are enough for them to know that they're fighting Siegfried and the real Siegfried has a weakness on his back.
Click to expand...
They don't even come from the same universe. There is no possible way that Issei or Ddraig, or anyone else from DxD would know about Siegfreid's legend, his abilities, his weakspot, etc. See what Zenjutsu already said on that. And you understand that there is already a siegfried in the dxd universe and he possesses none of the weaknesses fate siegfreid does, so even getting his name would just make them think "oh, same name", not immediately know anything about him.

If we're using grail war rules then both of them have dragon-slayer weakness and that's it (what are Siegfried going to do with Issei's perversion? There's nothing he can do). In fact Ddraig would be even stronger since he was stronger than Fafnir in real life and it took God to bring him down. We're not using grail war rules but what I wanted to ask was for that do we count Boosted Gear as noble phantasm. If yes then Issei will have to use stronger attack if he wants to beat Siegfried.

We're not using Grail War rules, we're using verse equalisation. Yes, things like Penetrate and Balance Breaker would count as Noble Phantasms for use against AoF. Balmung would probably count as a Demon Sword or something against Issei.

And you must understand that DxD's Fafnir is not the same as Fate's Fafnir so comparing the two to say why Ddraig is stronger, is a completely idiotic statement to make. And "God" is a buzzword, that means absolutely nothing on its own. It's not a statement of power. It's a title. So simply saying "it took God to take him down" means nothing on its own. Also, Ddraig's not the one fighting here. Issei is, so Ddraig's strength when he was alive means nothing, and is completely irrelevant to this debate.

You either don't know what's a Gary Stu or have a very specific definition for it but we're not discussing it here. One important note for Gary Stu is that he never loses a fight and always does things right, he also has no flaws as a character and born a special snowflake. Issei wishes he was a Gary Stu.

You say you aren't discussing it, then tell me "an important note". I don't care. I wasn't the one who said that he was a Gary Stue anyway.

The barrier is Armor of Fafnir because no matter how you word it it is still a type of defense with limitation. It is not completely invulnerable. Besides Atalanta can stun and pierced through Siegfried and Issei has far more powerful long range attack than hers (Crimson Blaster and Longinus Smasher). Even if his attack cannot kill him directly they will be enough to destroy his sword.

You're seriously testing my patience here. I have repeatedly explained to you, painstakingly, why Penetrate is not going to bypass AoF, and I have used lines from the very quote that you provided to do so. You are arguing ad naseum, repeating the same thing over and over regardless of my clear explanations. I will not explain anymore. You may continue to live in your delusions, while anyone with an iota of common sense will disagree with you.

In a melee fight Siegfried could win but in a long range fight Issei has the bigger chance to win.

Siegfreid has ranged attacks that will likely one-shot Issei, so retreating out of melee range is the worst thing he can do.
 
Something I hate how wikia format works, you can't just quote each paragraph then write your reply under it with some quick buttons.

"They don't even come from the same universe. There is no possible way that Issei or Ddraig, or anyone else from DxD would know about Siegfreid's legend, his abilities, his weakspot, etc. See what Zenjutsu already said on that. And you understand that there is already a siegfried in the dxd universe and he possesses none of the weaknesses fate siegfreid does, so even getting his name would just make them think "oh, same name", not immediately know anything about him."

The Siegfried in DxD they fought was not the real Siegfried but a clone, the character called himself Siegfried and said that he 'inherited' the name so obviously he wouldn't have the same weakness (and not even the signature invulnerable power). Noted that both DxD and Fate use kitchensink setting which based on real life's myth so they more or less have the same legends. No reason to assume that Issei or Ddraig wouldn't know about Siegfried weakness on the back since he's too famous.

"We're not using Grail War rules, we're using verse equalisation. Yes, things like Penetrate and Balance Breaker would count as Noble Phantasms for use against AoF. Balmung would probably count as a Demon Sword or something against Issei.

And you must understand that DxD's Fafnir is not the same as Fate's Fafnir so comparing the two to say why Ddraig is stronger, is a completely idiotic statement to make. And "God" is a buzzword, that means absolutely nothing on its own. It's not a statement of power. It's a title. So simply saying "it took God to take him down" means nothing on its own. Also, Ddraig's not the one fighting here. Issei is, so Ddraig's strength when he was alive means nothing, and is completely irrelevant to this debate."


The point is if we are using grail war rules then the characters get the power defined by both verses but we're not so I will stop here.

"You say you aren't discussing it, then tell me "an important note". I don't care. I wasn't the one who said that he was a Gary Stue anyway."


That one is not for you but a lot of people don't know what a Gary Stu so I want to remind them.

"You're seriously testing my patience here. I have repeatedly explained to you, painstakingly, why Penetrate is not going to bypass AoF, and I have used lines from the very quote that you provided to do so. You are arguing ad naseum, repeating the same thing over and over regardless of my clear explanations. I will not explain anymore. You may continue to live in your delusions, while anyone with an iota of common sense will disagree with you."


You are the one testing my patience, no matter what AoF is a type of defense which prevents Siegfried from taking damage and Penetrate does what it called aka bypass the defense since AoF blocks damage. We will have to agree to disagree here since both of us know we won't back down from our argument and there's not enough proof (Siegfried hasn't taken a Penetrate type attack and Issei hasn't bypassed Invulnerability). By the way I'm sure I can tell you the same thing about delusions and anyone with an iota of common sense will disagree with you.


"Siegfreid has ranged attacks that will likely one-shot Issei, so retreating out of melee range is the worst thing he can do."


He can't, the wyvern will block his attack or Issei can offset them with Dragon Shot which is spammable and mountain buster. If they engage in a long range attack it will be a matter of time before Issei uses Crimson Blaster or Longinus Smasher which has the AoE the size of a city at least. Noted that Issei can blast homing Dragon Shot.
 
For the last time, Touhou. The last time.

Armor of Fafnir IS SIEGFRIED's BODY. It isn't something that externally blocks damage. It's something that allows him to take hits without ANY negative consequence.

It you took a punch from, say, a baby, it doesn't hurt, right? The baby DID hit you. It just didn't deterr you from what you're trying to do or harm you in any significant way. That is what Armor of Fafnir is, magnified many times over to the point that it can take (or at least blunt) hits like Penetrate and Longinus Smasher. Even for attacks more powerful than it, it takes the brunt of the blow and as a result Siegfried is less affected.

Is that clear? If so, then please can we move on to something else now? Siegfried's armor will work, and it will especially be effective against Issei, who is a Dragon.

Finally, please do NOT get the illusion that either of them--no matter who wins--will come out of this without any real damage.
 
It is a type of defense, being the body or organ or not doesn't matter. What matter is that AoF is a type of defense that prevents Siegfried from taking damage.

If the baby hit you with a knife then he will harm you, Penetrate in this case is the knife that pierces through the skin. That's what Penetrate does. Like I mentioned before we will have to agree to disagree since there's not enough proof regarding Penetrate vs AoF.

We see Atalante's arrows pierced through Siegfried's body and Issei has far more stronger attacks than her. Don't ignore that fact. Both Crimson Blaster and Longinus Smasher are overpowered compares to Atalante's arrows or noble phantasm. With Ascalon on top of it AoF has no bonus defense against Issei's attack.

Since when I mentioned that Issei would come out of this unscathed?
 
Well, I guess we can let that go for now...

The weakest of Servants can lift a car or two under normal circumstances (it's the basic setting for all Servants), and Atalanta is far from weak. And even then, her arrows just exploded in his face and pushed him back. Yes, they didn't pierce him. They DID, however, push him back a few steps.

I'm not that far into Apocrypha, so you might want to give me a link or two if there's a Round 2.

Crimson Blaster and Longinus Smasher would more than qualify as Noble Phantasms. And I'll give you that they're at least Rank B, enough firepower to rival Armor of Fafnir. (I said, AT LEAST.)

You've asserted more than once that Wyvern would reduce Siegfried's attack power and Issei could counter or tank what's left. That's pretty telling of how he wouldn't suffer physical damage. I ask of you to remember that Siegfried's attacks are lethal against Dragons, and Issei is a Dragon.

Also, if we're not going by FGO game rules, his defense would receive a boost against Dragons too. It's his legend.

On the other hand, Issei's legend--and he'll have one from verse equalization (not unlike Kurumi in the other thread)--does he have a famous battle in which he defeated someone whose abilites gave advantages specifically over his person or species?
 
Isse stomps.

Armor of Fafnir (B+ rank) = At least City level (Less than Mountain Level)

Crimson Blaster = Mountain level > bypass Armor of Fafnir

Longinus Smasher = At least Mountain level > bypass Armor of Fafnir

Isse can divide Balmung with Wyverns and can use Ascalon + Crimson Blaster.
 
Quick question. Is Ascalon imbued in all of Issei's attacks? If so, he's bypassing Armor of Fafnir.

If not, Sieg is probably tanking everything Issei's throwing at him since Mountain level attacks are basically mosquito bites to Sieg.

Also, EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD CALM DOWN. There's no need to be insulting each other.
 
@Reppuzan

Definitely. Issei can imbue the powers of Ascalon in all his attacks. He already did it in his punches and also in his cannon shots.
 
It looks like a one-hit kill fight then.

Either Issei blasts Sieg with Anti-Dragon cannons or Sieg uses Balmung to blast Issei with an anti-dragon energy wave.
 
AoF's explanation states that the dragon slaying attribute weapons only bypass the bonus defense provided against Noble Phantasms, not the entirety of the armour
 
@Lucian

You don't bypass Armor of Fafnir with raw power.

They're both the same tier.

Also, is this Traina Issei or Juggernaut Drive Issei? I don't think Juggernaut Drive Issei is clear-headed enough to use Ascalon.
 
Crom Cruach took a direct hit from Tathlum, a magical weapon that Azazel and Crom Cruach himself stated to be lethal to the Evil Dragon and was completely unaffected. But, Crimson Blaster + Ascalon eliminated the wing and skin of Crom with only one of the cannons.

Is not this Issei CxC?
 
@Lucian

No... it reduces A-Rank attacks to mosquito bites. Vasavi Shakti was just an overwhelmingly powerful Noble Phantasm powerful enough to one-shot a shield that projected the concept of a "World", but was stopped in the process. It's also powerful enough to one-shot a potentially 5-A to 4-B being under certain circumstances.
 
@Lucian

And the damage was reduced to a tiny scratch that healed in seconds. Your point?
 
I think the point is, Repp, that because Karna pierced Armor of Fafnir, Issei can most definitely to it--better, in fact, to the point where it becomes a one-hit kill.

Also, Haou, that was a demon slayer. I think we can agree that Issei is more Dragon than he is a Demon.

Did Light's abilities give him any edge or advantage specifically against Issei or Dragons?
 
In fights involving Servants, the Overseer (that is, whatever drags them into the fight) provides a steady flow of Mana to allow the Servant to fight effectively.

Might not be enough to spam his Noble Phantasm, but most definitely enough to support his healing.

Well, either that or there is no Master, and Sieg fades immediately, making the fight void.

I say that because I used the 'no Master' fact against Nobu at one point in another thread, and I think both situations should be allowed.
 
Well,i guess using Siegfried for me is mistake here.......

Calm down guys,no need to circlying each other.

@Zen

Well,you can justified my hate for Siegfried as BS,i hate him because he's too knightly,his lore is realy bland,and his AoF is really bland,and ih FGO his fans is really whinning af.

You can longinus me
 
@Zen

Issei is more vulnerable to dragon slayer, but he is a devil.

"Clad in lightning, Barakiel-san charged directly towards me! Even if I was able to / dodge his fist, the shock of the lightning would be transmitted to me through my armor. My entire body would be paralyzed by it! It would be bad if I was hit by a direct attack! After all, light is a deadly poison for Devils! Barakiel-san's power of light combined with lightning - it would be dangerous if I was hit by that lightning! I began to retort as I countered his attacks."
 
According to this page:

A + = Mountain level

A ++ = higher than Mountain Level

Where is country level?
I said Brahmastra (A +), not Brahmastra Kundala
 
That's for Servant Strentgh ranks. Noble Phantasms are measured differently, and NP ranks are not always an accurate representation of their strentgh to begin with.
 
Excalibur really should be higher, tbh. But that's something to be discussed in a content revision thread, not a VS match.
 
@Lucian

Again, ranks are only a general guideline. They're not absolute.

King Hassa can instantly kill anyone with his sword. It's only a C-Rank Noble Phantasm.

Atalanta's Tauropoios doesn't even have a rank, but when fully drawn it can pierce the Armor of Fafnir enough to stick an arrow in Sieg's chest (not that it hurts him much).
 
Okay, because of the above is way to much to read for me, I will make a more short argument for myself.

Both character have several abilities in common which cancel each other:

Both have dragonic traits and dragon slayer weaponary, so let's say its a tie.

Sieg has Balmung, Issei has Dragon Blaster and Longinus Smasher.

Both have Regen (Sieg's is lower while Issei is only for his armor).

Issei has Boosted Gear, and Sieg has Prana Burts (Does all Servants have that thing?).

Sieg has better AoE, Issei has better range and flight.

Skill wise, I think its irrelevant (Issei fights people like Sieg that way more skilled all the time).

The reason why I lean more to Issei its because of his Divine Wyverns, allowing him to halve Sieg power, reflect incoming attacks, and increase his parameters more efficiently with Red Wyvern which can boost themselves and transfer the power to Issei.

Sieg might have better AP and Invulnerability with AoF, but Issei can eventually overwhelm him with time.
 
@Newendigo

Sieg doesn't have Mana Burst. And no, not all Servants have this.

Is it in character for Issei to sit back and blast away?

Also, is this Traina Issei?
 
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