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Hellboy (Franchise) Revision Thread #1 | 8-C Hellboy, further calculations, and more!

Omnificence

Joe, Joey, Jojo, Joseph
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So, let's delve deeper into the narrative of Hellboy. For now, I want to see if we can aggrandize his stats from his Attack Potency to Durability.
  • First off, let's take a look at Hellboy's durability. From this calculation here, we can see Hellboy briefly contending with a large colossus, who in turn is apparently Roger the Homunculus. After throwing a tree trunk into his neck, Hellboy gets crushed with the giant's grip and pounded by his fist, yet he's still back on his feet sometime later. Even though the calculation right here places the giant's striking strength at a theoretical Wall level, we also know that Roger is only tiered at 8-C having Building level+ attack potency and Building Class+ striking strength. If we were to highball it, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that it's only fair to give Hellboy Building level+ durability.
    • Also, we already understand that the Frog Monsters possess Building Class+ striking strength at their best, so if we look back at the cases where Hellboy bucked their attacks, I think this is more evidence that Hellboy should have Building level+ durability.
  • Second of all, I want to peruse Hellboy's attack potency and striking strength. In Seed of Destruction, Hellboy battles a couple of frog monsters. Here are a few exemplars of him trading blows with them and withstanding some of their attacks. Looking at the Frog Monsters' profile we know that these creature possess Building level+ durability at their best. Using this tack, Hellboy would possess Building level+ attack potency and Building Class+ striking strength.
    • Looking back at Roger the Homunculus' profile, we also see that he has Building level+ durability. With the calculation of Hellboy hurling the tree trunk into the giant's neck, I would assume that this would also give Hellboy Building level+ attack potency.
  • Third and finally, let's cover Hellboy's speed. As we already know, characters such as Abe Sapien, Ben Daimio, Karl Kroenen, Roger the Homunculus, The Black Flame (Raimund Diestel), and The Lobster all possess Supersonic speed inasmuch as they can easily dodge and react to bullets. In Hellboy's case using this speed calculation, he only possesses Transonic speed at best. Howbeit, there is another exemplification of Hellboy reacting to bullets; right here we can see him reacting to and tanking machine gun fire. Seeing as how the typical speed of reacting to a machine gun would be 890 to 1219 m/s based on this page, this should give Hellboy Supersonic to Supersonic+ reaction speed. Also, knowing that Karl Kroenen already battled Hellboy, we should be able to scale Hellboy to Kroenen, which in turn should give Hellboy Supersonic speed.
With all of this finished, I would like to propose what I think Hellboy's new stats should look like.

Tier: At least 9-B to 9-A, likely 8-C to High 8-C, 8-B with Vasilisa's Comb | At least High 7-C, likely far higher

Name:
Hellboy | Real name is Anung Un Rama

Origin: Hellboy

Gender: Male

Age: 441, physically 70

Classification: Cambion (Half-Demon, Half-Human)



Attack Potency: At least Wall level (Stated to be stronger and tougher than a human; can crush a human skull) to Small Building level, likely Building level to Large Building level (His fight with a rat monster caused an earthquake of this magnitude), City Block level with Vasilisa's Comb (Created a forest during his fight with Koshchei which would require this much energy) | At least Large Town level (Generated an explosion of hellfire, which yields this much potential energy), likely far higher

Speed:
At least Subsonic to Transonic (Fast enough to dodge bullets and a shot from an electric gun), likely higher | At least High Hypersonic (Can move at these speeds), likely far higher

Lifting Strength:
At least Class 5 (Can throw a tree into a giant's neck) to Class 25 (Some sources hint he possess a strength level of Class 25, but the true extent of Hellboy's strength is unknown), likely higher | At least Class G (Is able to lift his own weight in his gigantic form), likely far higher

Striking Strength:
At least Wall Class (Can tackle people through walls and smash through masonry) to Small Building Class (Strong enough to punch a large tree monster), likely Building Class to Large Building Class | At lest Large Town Class (His punches can deal this much damage), likely far higher

Durability:
At least Wall level (Survived getting pounded in a palm by an oversized Roger the Homunculus) to Small Building level, likely Building level to Large Building level (Survived the destruction of a castle). Regeneration and Immortality make him difficult to kill | At least Large Town level (Was unfazed by his own explosion of hellfire), likely far higher

Stamina:
Very High (Withstood multiple shots of electricity, for which each shock had the power to light up a city) | Likely higher than before

Range: Extended melee range with swords and spears, tens of meters with guns and other firearms. Kilometers with Size Shifting

Standard Equipment: The Right Hand of Doom, 1941 US Army-Issue M1911A1 .45 Caliber Pistol, Excalibur, concussion and gas grenades, knives, spears, horns (via Prince of Hell), Vulcan 50 and 65, an iron horseshoe, Mohlomi's Bell, Resurrection Amulet & several other magical artifacts

Intelligence: At least Gifted, likely Genius. Despite his brutish and rude personality, Hellboy possesses considerable knowledge and experience as both a paranormal investigator and detective. after he was taken in by the US government and became a part of the BPRD in 1952. He's able to rig up Nazi munitions to a timed explosion and speak Old Lemurian which was the language of the first race of men in the golden age. He's displayed skill with swords and other improvised weapons, and, inside of combat, Hellboy can figure out a way destroy an enemy after learning the weakness and use the environment to his advantage such as when he used a damaged sign to skewer his enemy

Weaknesses: Hellboy is rather short-tempered, and he has a soft spot for cats and Baby Ruth bars. Some of his weapons can malfunction and there are a few times when he's admitted to not being a great shot. Due to his half-demonic nature, Hellboy can be damaged by certain types of holy spells and magic (this might not be the case, however, as he is no "simple creature of Hell").

Feats: Respect threads

Key: Base | Demon Form


Do these edits seem acceptable?
 
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No to the "Building level+" bit based on averaging high-end vs low-end. That is very simply not how we do things. I agree with Hellboy scaling to the Colossus, DT's blog of my old concept of "AP from Size" may be useful to you in getting the Colossus' AP from size alone. Scaling Hellboy to the Frog Monsters is fine, but it seems they ultimately scale to a "building-sized monster", so again I suggest checking DT's blog to see if their height actually merits an 8-C rating.

I would really like a calc of these "dodging bullets" ratings. Reacting to machine gun fire after it has been shot does not imply moving at the same speed as it- in fact, the simple fact that Hellboy tanked the shots rather than dodge them seems to imply he isn't faster at all, and that instead it was better to use his arm to block the shots, no? In no way does that imply Supersonic speed in any case.
 
No to the "Building level+" bit based on averaging high-end vs low-end. That is very simply not how we do things. I agree with Hellboy scaling to the Colossus, DT's blog of my old concept of "AP from Size" may be useful to you in getting the Colossus' AP from size alone. Scaling Hellboy to the Frog Monsters is fine, but it seems they ultimately scale to a "building-sized monster", so again I suggest checking DT's blog to see if their height actually merits an 8-C rating.

I would really like a calc of these "dodging bullets" ratings. Reacting to machine gun fire after it has been shot does not imply moving at the same speed as it- in fact, the simple fact that Hellboy tanked the shots rather than dodge them seems to imply he isn't faster at all, and that instead it was better to use his arm to block the shots, no? In no way does that imply Supersonic speed in any case.
Alright, so we won't be able to utilize the high-end vs low-end tack, but just as long as we can at least scale Hellboy to other characters of the franchise who are 8-C, we're on the right track here. Now, let's see if I can dredge up some more pages of Hellboy going up against creatures who are at least building-sized.
 
See here for our official information page about this subject:

 
Okay, so some of these frog monsters aren't particularly "building-sized", but we already know that they were able to fight on par with Roger the Homunculus, making them Building level+. And just by assaying this panel, it should easily make Roger "building-sized".
 
For large sized characters, we usually use the gravitational potential energy formula. That's 0.5 * h in meters * mass in kg * gravity of Earth (9.807 m/s^2). Might be a good idea to pixel scale to something to get the height, but mass might be harder to calculate.
 
For large sized characters, we usually use the gravitational potential energy formula. That's 0.5 * h in meters * mass in kg * gravity of Earth (9.807 m/s^2). Might be a good idea to pixel scale to something to get the height, but mass might be harder to calculate.
In that case, would anyone mind to measure the Homunculus' height in this scan?
 
Here:

 
Okay, so some of these frog monsters aren't particularly "building-sized", but we already know that they were able to fight on par with Roger the Homunculus, making them Building level+. And just by assaying this panel, it should easily make Roger "building-sized".
So you calculated his height, and he is 93 meters tall, yes?
 
Well...he is "building-sized"...unfortunately, I could only get Roger with his size tiered at 9-A.

I only used Clip Studio for this, so I could be wrong.
 
is there any creature larger than Roger? any feat that may be more impressive than 9-A?
 
Well actually, I did wanna scale Hellboy to the Ogdru Jahad's physicality from The Storm and the Fury after I got DemonGod to calc the Storm one of them created over Great Britain, but everyone said it's just Wall level. Still think it's worth a shot to try and find the Ogdru Jahad's size. Let me give it a try.
 
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That seems fine, as long as the Supersonic speed comes from an accepted calculation.
 
That seems fine, as long as the Supersonic speed comes from an accepted calculation.
Here is my final proposal for the edits:

Powers and Stats

Tier:
At least 9-B to 9-A, likely 8-C | High 7-C | At least High 7-C, likely higher


Attack Potency:
At least Wall level (Stated to be stronger and tougher than a human) to Small Building level (Scaling from his striking strength), likely Building level (Scaling from his durability; contended with several frog monsters) | Large Town level (Generated an explosion of hellfire, which yields this much potential energy) | At least Large Town level, likely higher

Speed:
At least Subsonic to Transonic (Fast enough to dodge bullets and a shot from an electric gun), likely Supersonic (Comparable to Karl Kroenen; evaded a punch from Roger the Homunculus) | High Hypersonic (Can move at these speeds) | At least High Hypersonic, likely higher

Lifting Strength:
At least Class 1 (Can easily crush a skull) to Class 5 (Can throw a tree into a giant's neck but the true extent of Hellboy's strength is unknown), likely Class 25 (Some sources hint he possess a strength level of Class 25) | Class G (Is able to lift his own weight in his demon form) | At least Class G, likely higher

Striking Strength:
At least Wall Class (Can smash through masonry and tackle people through walls) to Small Building Class (Strong enough to punch a large tree monster), likely Building Class (Scaling from his durability; traded blows with several frog monsters) | Large Town Class (His punches can deal this much damage) | At least Large Town Class, likely higher

Durability:
At least Wall level (Withstood getting pounded by a large Roger the Homunculus) to Small Building level (Scaling from his striking strength), likely Building level (Survived a castle exploding and took in hits from frog monsters) Regeneration and Immortality make him difficult to kill | Large Town level (Was unaffected by his own blast of hellfire) Regeneration and Immortality make him difficult to kill | At least Large Town level, likely higher

Stamina:
Very High (Withstood multiple shots of electricity, for which each shock had the power to light up a city)

Range: Extended melee range with swords and spears, tens of meters with guns and other firearms. Kilometers with Size Shifting

Standard Equipment: The Right Hand of Doom, 1941 US Army-Issue M1911A1 .45 Caliber Pistol, Excalibur, concussion and gas grenades, knives, spears, horns (via Prince of Hell), Vulcan 50 and 65, an iron horseshoe, Mohlomi's Bell, Resurrection Amulet & several other magical artifacts

Intelligence: At least Gifted, likely Genius. Despite his brutish and rude personality, Hellboy possesses considerable knowledge and experience as both a paranormal investigator and detective after he was taken in by the US government and became a part of the BPRD in 1952. He's able to rig up Nazi munitions to a timed explosion and speak Old Lemurian which was the language of the first race of men in the golden age. He's displayed skill with swords and other improvised weapons, and, inside of combat, Hellboy can figure out a way destroy an enemy after learning the weakness and use the environment to his advantage such as when he used a damaged sign to skewer his enemy

Weaknesses: Hellboy is rather short-tempered, and he has a soft spot for cats and Baby Ruth bars. Some of his weapons can malfunction and there are a few times when he's admitted to not being a great shot. Due to his half-demonic nature, Hellboy can be damaged by certain types of holy spells and magic

Feats: Respect threads

Key: Base | Demon Form | Prince of Hell

Do these pending edits seem acceptable now? Hopefully, they can be used.
 
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Oh dear.

We absolutely need proof of monsters being 8-C in size.

This is not negotiable. It is a must. Currently 8-C comes from the monsters Abe Sapien fought. Scale their size. If it is 8-C, I accept 8-C. If it is not, I do not accept 8-C. The purpose of a CRT is not to just keep remaking proposals- get proof. I need proof.
 
Oh dear.

We absolutely need proof of monsters being 8-C in size.

This is not negotiable. It is a must. Currently 8-C comes from the monsters Abe Sapien fought. Scale their size. If it is 8-C, I accept 8-C. If it is not, I do not accept 8-C. The purpose of a CRT is not to just keep remaking proposals- get proof. I need proof.
Alright, it looks like we won't be able to put Hellboy at 8-C right now, but I don't want to close this thread yet, and I do want to give his profile some edits. I'll try to obtain some calculations that'll emplace him at said tier. In the meantime, does anyone else think these edits are acceptable now?

Powers and Stats

Tier: At least 9-B, likely 9-A | At least High 7-C, likely higher

Name:
Hellboy, but his real name is Anung Un Rama

Origin: Hellboy

Gender: Male

Age: 441, physically 70

Classification: Cambion (Half-Demon, Half-Human)



Attack Potency: At least Wall level (Stated to be stronger and tougher than a human), likely Small Building level | At least Large Town level (Generated an explosion of hellfire, which yields this much potential energy), likely higher

Speed: At least Subsonic, likely Transonic (Fast enough to dodge bullets and a shot from an electric gun) | At least High Hypersonic (Can move at these speeds), likely higher

Lifting Strength: At least Class 5 (Can throw a tree into a giant's neck but the true extent of Hellboy's strength is unknown), likely Class 25 (Some sources hint he possess a strength level of Class 25) | At least Class G (Is able to lift his own weight in his demon form), likely higher

Striking Strength: At least Wall Class (Can smash through masonry and tackle people through walls), likely Small Building Class (Strong enough to punch a large tree monster) | At least Large Town Class (His punches can deal this much damage), likely higher

Durability: At least Wall level (Withstood getting pounded by a large Roger the Homunculus), likely Small Building level. Regeneration and Immortality make him difficult to kill | At least Large Town level (Was unaffected by his own blast of hellfire), likely higher

Stamina: Very High (Withstood multiple shots of electricity, for which each shock had the power to light up a city)

Range: Extended melee range with swords and spears, tens of meters with guns and other firearms. Kilometers with Size Shifting

Standard Equipment: The Right Hand of Doom, 1941 US Army-Issue M1911A1 .45 Caliber Pistol, Excalibur, concussion and gas grenades, knives, spears, horns (via Prince of Hell), Vulcan 50 and 65, an iron horseshoe, Mohlomi's Bell, Resurrection Amulet & several other magical artifacts

Intelligence: At least Gifted, likely Genius. Despite his brutish and rude personality, Hellboy possesses considerable knowledge and experience as both a paranormal investigator and detective after he was taken in by the US government and became a part of the BPRD in 1952. He's able to rig up Nazi munitions to a timed explosion and speak Old Lemurian which was the language of the first race of men in the golden age. He's displayed skill with swords and other improvised weapons, and, inside of combat, Hellboy can figure out a way destroy an enemy after learning the weakness and use the environment to his advantage such as when he used a damaged sign to skewer his enemy

Weaknesses: Hellboy is rather short-tempered, and he has a soft spot for cats and Baby Ruth bars. Some of his weapons can malfunction and there are a few times when he's admitted to not being a great shot. Due to his half-demonic nature, Hellboy can be damaged by certain types of holy spells and magic

Feats: Respect threads



Key: Base | Demon Form
 
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Would the chart in the following page be useful for determining the statistics here?

 
Would the chart in the following page be useful for determining the statistics here?

Well, to be fair, I did wanna get rid of the Prince of Hell key since not enough research has been done on it yet. I kinda forgot to add that revision throughout this thread.
 
Okay. I meant that I wonder if the large-sized character that Hellboy scales from can have his attack potency determined by the linked energy chart.
 
Okay. As long as the calculation has been accepted by other calc group members, it can probably be used to scale Roger and Hellboy from then.
 
However, if that calculation gives a lower result than the size chart, perhaps the size chart can be used instead. What do you think Bambu?
 
However, if that calculation gives a lower result than the size chart, perhaps the size chart can be used instead. What do you think Bambu?
Do these statistics really have to be solely based on size if I were to get Hellboy to 8-C?
 
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