High 6-C No-Holds Barred Tournament: Rensa vs MetalPhantommon

[Naito-desu]

• Both are High 6-C
• Speeds equalized
• SBA otherwise

Rensa:

MetalPhantomon:

 

[Everything12]

Nonexistent Physiology Type 1 and 5-D Mind Hax goes brrr.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So MetalPhantomon has NEP but isn't incorporeal (at least not more incorporeal than digimon usually are)... so how does that work?
And what's that about 5D mind hax? See no Mind Manip on the profile and which kind of 5D are we even talking here? What specific technique is meant, the Evil Whisper thing?

 

[Naito-desu]

Doesn't Rensa kind of outrange here too since we're operating on SBA

 

[DontTalkDT]

In principle yes. Could give her the opportunity to get some law shenanigans going.

 

[Revaret]

Digimon Physiology

Dark Digimon are in fact "Non-Entities", they have been deleted, erased and removed from the world and are now part of a void of nothingness. Hence NEP

The composition of the given Digimon is a metaphysical substance and its existence is actually equivalent to primordial souls being naturally untouchable by those who exist in lower worlds. Hence incorporeality

Being able to interact with minds and souls, as well as being able to rewrite the data structure, all Digimons are able to directly attack the opponent's mind or soul, and can even rewrite their structure to control their actions through their mind / soul. Hence mind hax

By the level of complexity of the Digital World, even the most basic level of the Digital World transcends the structure of the Human Multiverse, which makes Digimon such as Clockmon minimally Low Complex Multiverse level. Phantommon's mind hax scales to 5-D from here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Digimon Physiology

Dark Digimon are in fact "Non-Entities", they have been deleted, erased and removed from the world and are now part of a void of nothingness. Hence NEP

The composition of the given Digimon is a metaphysical substance and its existence is actually equivalent to primordial souls being naturally untouchable by those who exist in lower worlds. Hence incorporeality

Being able to interact with minds and souls, as well as being able to rewrite the data structure, all Digimons are able to directly attack the opponent's mind or soul, and can even rewrite their structure to control their actions through their mind / soul. Hence mind hax

By the level of complexity of the Digital World, even the most basic level of the Digital World transcends the structure of the Human Multiverse, which makes Digimon such as Clockmon minimally Low Complex Multiverse level. Phantommon's mind hax scales to 5-D from here.

First things first, that sounds nice on paper but I'm pretty sure I have seen plenty didgimon in the anime get physically interacted with in mundane way. So clearly some exception to the incorporeality/NEP stuff exists. Which is it?
And how exactly does the mind hax work? What is most in-character for it to use?
Oh, and how good is its mind hax resistance in comparison to the mind hax?

Also, if everything in the digiworld is 5D how is MetalPhantomon not 5D himself?

 

[Revaret]

In Digimon humans have a composition greater than just the material body, there are souls and minds in humans. For humans the "mind / soul" is something metaphysical of which the material body is not able to interact with. However, the Digimon exist as beings that to us are metaphysical since they are like souls to us. What exists in our physical world as abstract, as minds and souls, are also totally converted into data in the Digital World. Which means that when a human goes to the Digital World it becomes entirely digital. In the same way it is possible for the mind to leave the human body, it will become data that are interacted in a normal way with other beings that have the same digital composition. That is why humans in the Digital World can interact with Digimons.

Grave Scream that is 5-D mind and soul hax is one of his opening moves.

A Digimon's mind and soul is covered by Wireframe, which protects the Digicores (The true form and essence of a Digimon) from outside influence. Digimons are primordial souls native to a world that’s superior to the Physical World transcending conventional reality on many levels of spacetime and have Higher-Dimensional Existence

This is the outer region of a Digimon, and the one we have the closest contact with. A wire-frame model is a visual presentation of a 3-dimensional (3D) or physical object used in 3D computer graphics. It is created by specifying each edge of the physical object where two mathematically continuous smooth surfaces meet, or by connecting an object's constituent vertices using straight lines or curves. What we perceive as a Digimon is merely the Wireframe which receives a texture, a set of 0s and 1s is written through the wireframe that receives an appearance through human eyes. That is, what we see as cyborgs, monsters, animals or whatever, is just an interpretation of the Wireframe's texture. Phantomon's rating is his wire-frame that contains his mind and soul that have Higher-Dimensional Existence

 

[DontTalkDT]

In Digimon humans have a composition greater than just the material body, there are souls and minds in humans. For humans the "mind / soul" is something metaphysical of which the material body is not able to interact with. However, the Digimon exist as beings that to us are metaphysical since they are like souls to us. What exists in our physical world as abstract, as minds and souls, are also totally converted into data in the Digital World. Which means that when a human goes to the Digital World it becomes entirely digital. In the same way it is possible for the mind to leave the human body, it will become data that are interacted in a normal way with other beings that have the same digital composition. That is why humans in the Digital World can interact with Digimons.

But humans can also interact with digimon when in the human world. In fact, pretty sure if you throw a stone at a digimon in the human world the stone won't just fly straight through it and a stone has no soul or mind.
And, if things with mind and soul can interact with digimon, then wouldn't that apply to Rensa too since she also has a mind and soul?

A Digimon's mind and soul is covered by Wireframe, which protects the Digicores (The true form and essence of a Digimon) from outside influence. Digimons are primordial souls native to a world that’s superior to the Physical World transcending conventional reality on many levels of spacetime and have Higher-Dimensional Existence

What is stronger, MetalPhantomon's mind resistance or its own mind hax?

 

[Revaret]

In the franchise itself there is the process of Realize (Also called Re: Digitize) in which a Digimon manifesting itself in the Real World using pseudo proteins that follow its true form so that it is possible to equate its existence with that of Humans, although still being able to use their powers, although in a more "real" way. They interact with humans in real world thanks to this.

Data can interact with Digimons not just soul or mind

His mind is 5-D hence 5-D resistance and 5-D hax

 

[DontTalkDT]

In the franchise itself there is the process of Realize (Also called Re: Digitize) in which a Digimon manifesting itself in the Real World using pseudo proteins that follow its true form so that it is possible to equate its existence with that of Humans, although still being able to use their powers, although in a more "real" way. They interact with humans in real world thanks to this.

Since the fight takes place in the human world, would the digimon be in that form or can it be in the human world without being in that?

His mind is 5-D hence 5-D resistance and 5-D hax

But could hax on equal in power to its own 5D hax affect it? I assume it could, as it presumably is capable of mind haxing other digimon which also have 5D minds, but I want to make sure.

 

[Revaret]

All Digimon are actually "souls" that exist on a higher plane of reality following an emanationism cosmology. Interactions with the Digimon that occur in the franchise are so because of specific events that either create manifestation bodies for the Digimon or turn humans into digital entities but Digimons can also effect real world in their digital form.

If a charcter have 5-D mind hax they can effect Digimons. Although MetalPhantomon is few layers above the baseline in mind hax.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Since the fight takes place in the human world, would the digimon be in that form or can it be in the human world without being in that?

When in the Human World, Digimon specifically take on a physical body. While their Digicores (Dark Cores for Dark Digimon) are still Higher D. Their bodies can still be harmed. Destroying a Digimon's physical bodies should be enough to secure a win as most Digimon lack immediate regen. In the Digital World, Humans also become data allowing them to interact with Digimon physically. But in essence, MetalPhantomon should be physical here.

But could hax on equal in power to its own 5D hax affect it? I assume it could, as it presumably is capable of mind haxing other digimon which also have 5D minds, but I want to make sure.

MetalPhantomon in particular is a Digimon whose soul and mind based abilities surpass that of other Digimon so it can affect the minds and souls of other Digimon quite easily unlike most other Digimon who tend to not have the means to do so. Darkside Digimon in general tend to have high mind and soul hax potency due to using Darkside power. Digimon resistances in general are also layered in a way that scale to evolutionary stage. The stronger the Digimon, the stronger their wireframe which is what provides the resistance to mental and spiritual attacks. MetalPhantomon as an Ultimate would have a couple layers of resistances above say, a Rookie Digimon. MetalPhantomon's highest feat is ripping the Digicore out of Dorugoramon, a Mega Digimon. However, that's only potency, MetalPhantomon's own resistance would at best be comparable to Ultimates.

TL;DR
MetalPhantomon's Actual Hax > His Resistance.
Hope that cleared things up.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I see, so his hax > his resistance. In that case the physical thing probably doesn't even matter.

If MetalPhantomon leads with Grave Scream, as was suggested above, then that 5D mind hax gets reflected by Rensa's (passive) 11D Attack Reflection. WIth MetalPhantomon's mind hax being above its own resistance to mind hax, it therefore mind haxes itself. As such Rensa wins via incapacitation.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And before someone brings up the whole point of him being a Darkside Digimon. His mind and soul are made of nothingness yes, however Digimon can still effect Dark Cores as if they were regular Digicores so Metal's abilities would still work on itself.

I assume that she reflects sound? Grave Scream isn't exactly a "projectile", but an ability that rips out the souls of those who hear the actual sound. Dunno if that fits under what's reflected.

 

[DontTalkDT]

It's vector manipulation. She can reflect anything that has a direction to it, by inverting the direction. That would include sound, yes.

 

[Revaret]

Everything that exists in the Digital World is formed of data, it is said that this is a world where the totality of existence is reduced in data and all digimon attacks like all digimons also exist as data in Digital World. Rensa have no means to interact with data thanks to not having non-physical interaction.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Everything that exists in the Digital World is formed of data, it is said that this is a world where the totality of existence is reduced in data and all digimon attacks like all digimons also exist as data in Digital World. Rensa have no means to interact with data thanks to not having non-physical interaction.

Aside from there probably being a bunch of problems with that interpretation, vector manipulation can do that. I mean, vectors quite literally are non-physical things or properties if you so want. ( They don't grant NPI for the same reason soul manip also doesn't grant it)
In any case, vector manip can affect non-physical things, so reflection gg it is.

Also, the fight takes place in the human world by SBA, so the soundwaves of that attack would be caused in it.

 

[Naito-desu]

So from the looks of it, Rensa has the advantage here, so I'll move her forward if there's no further debate