Higher-Dimensional Physiology and Hax(REDUX )

[DontTalkDT]

To sum it up very basically, does an entity being 5D or the like mean that all it's hax is automatically 5D? Including hax it gains from upscaling or as a species specific trait if they don't have any evidence of working on 5D level.

Such as Arceus gaining every single Pokémon ability because it's the origin of those ability and everything is an aspect of it? Are those abilities automatically assumed to be 5D despite never being used by Arceus or on another 5D entity, or are they just the same level as they are with the 3D/4D Pokémon who they originate from.

To throw my voice in here (although it's the same as in the last thread):
5D size and AP are just that, size and AP. No showings of usage on this level = no hax on that level. Simple as that.

We have never powerscaled hax with power and shouldn't start doing it just because of fancy dimension terms.

 

[PrinceofPein]

False equivalence, we’re not debating if Arceus has these powers, rather the dimensionality of these powers, which this doesn’t answer

Then you should read what I wrote again

 

[Pikaman]

Then you should read what I wrote again

I did, I just particularly was bugged by the last part, which as a metaphor doesn’t work and covers something else

 

[Pikaman]

But a character who just had an increase and was not shown to use the hax to affect something of equal dimensionality to him

I think the important thing here is

Arceus IS THE WHOLE POKEMON REALITY ITSELF.

which means that, uh, yeah, surprise surprise an embodiment of a 5-D realm is in fact capable of affecting 5-D with hax

to argue otherwise would be

I created and embody a 5D ream but let me assure you, my powers don't work here. I'm sure of it.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think the important thing here is



which means that, uh, yeah, surprise surprise an embodiment of a 5-D realm is in fact capable of affecting 5-D with hax

to argue otherwise would be

The 5D realm, that has no 5D mind other than Arceus' own, no 5D souls and no 5D spacetime.

"I have 5D soul hax, because I'm able to be omnipresent in a realm without any souls on 5D level."

Not to mention that embodying stuff guarantees 0 of general influence over all aspects of that thing in the first place.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

So the deal here is that "Arceus is 5D, but because there's no one else on its lvl to affect with with its hax, said hax can't be proven to be 5D"?

 

[Pikaman]

The deal is that people should probably stop jumping to conclusions and wait for more staff input because both sides have made good points ffs

 

[Pikaman]

So the deal here is that "Arceus is 5D, but because there's no one else on its lvl to affect with with its hax, said hax can't be proven to be 5D"?

Oh. Wait that’s an entirely different type of question lol sorry

yeah pretty much, the argument is whether or not Pokémon’s lore/cosmology allows for an exception to this rule off of it’s unique circumstances

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Oh. Wait that’s an entirely different type of question lol sorry

yeah pretty much, the argument is whether or not Pokémon’s lore/cosmology allows for an exception to this rule off of it’s unique circumstances

Lmao Wow. When being the absolute and undisputed god of your verse gets you to move up a tier, but also gimps you to the bottom of that new tier. So how did other verses with an undisputed god type character get upgraded from 4D to 5D or higher? Or are there even any to reference?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Where are people getting the idea that Pokémon powers are just being upscaled to where Arceus is?

That’s not what’s happening at all.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Where are people getting the idea that Pokémon powers are just being upscaled to where Arceus is?

That’s not what’s happening at all.

Does Arcues not possess all the abilities of the other Pokemon?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Does Arcues not possess all the abilities of the other Pokemon?

Yes he does, but he doesn’t get them because he inherits them. He gets them because they all originate from him in the first place.

They aren’t upscaled to him in the way people are making it out to be, as if they come from the Pokémon themselves.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yes he does, but he doesn’t get them because he inherits them. He gets them because they all originate from him in the first place.

They aren’t upscaled to him in the way people are making it out to be, as if they come from the Pokémon themselves.

It's still a version of upscaling. If I gave a portion of my power to someone and they preformed the feat, I the superior one, upscales from it.

Though I see your point. However, Higher Dimensional stuff is beyond me so I don't have an overall opinion here. But I don't really see an Issue with his stuff being 5-D.

 

[Luckyfun]

I mean if Arceus is 5D, the plates should scales from him because they are part of him.

 

[QuasiYuri]

This CRT is literally just because of True Arceus Vs True enerjak lol

It's more that since the Arceus thread was only made for him to be strong, it would be dumb for him to be inaccurate AND weak
There's the same awfully defensive stance the previous thread had.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then you should read what I wrote again

Ok so, this whole "but True Form Arceus just upscales from the Avatar so all its hax is just 4D" is honestly just stupid and ignores a lot of context.

I'll speak like this because people tend to over-simplify and forget things about Arceus.

"Arceus doesn't have any Low 1-C feat itself besides its existence, so its hax extend to only its 4D multiverse."

This assumes that Arceus just exists in a plane beyond the multiverse and has created just said 4D multiverse, in a similar way Mashymre did. Issue here is that Arceus itself, unlike Mashymre, didn't just create the multiverse and perceives it as insignificant, but exists AS THE WHOLE PLANE WHERE THE MULTIVERSE IS SUCH. Arceus literally exists as a Low 1-C structure where the Multiverse is just a mere fraction of it, and gets the stuff from said realm. This isn't a thing like Mashymre who can use Fairy Tail verse powers just there, as is just the result of his writing, but something like Truth of The Universe, who embodies the whole Real World and can use haxes this powerful because it is the whole cosmology, affecting whatever being is in it like The Player or Dark Dragon. Like any single character that embodies a comsology can use its hax that strong as they are said cosmology, why Arceus shouldn't? It has created its own realm like Creation Trio has created the multiverse, and like they scale to such in hax, True Form Arceus should, given that they can manipulate and sustain the multiverse in the same way Arceus does with its own Low 1-C realm, given that Arceus IS THE WHOLE POKEMON REALITY ITSELF.

"It still has nothing besides upscaling from its avatars."

It's the opposite, given the avatars receive their powers to a limited scale as they are just a piece of the true form. Just like their AP is just 4D as they don't scale to the True Form's AP given the lack of feats on such level, because, again, said their AP is not the full thing, the hax should too for the same reason. This is not Infinite Zamasu who becomes 4D, but all his hax remain 3D because he has nothing suggesting his powers besides AP got upgraded, this is the opposite as IS THE AVATARS WHO GOT THEIR STUFF FROM THE TRUE FORM ON A LIMITED WAY. Like their AP/Hax is limited to 2-A as is not comparable to the True Form in feats, True Form should upscale to 5D in both AP and Hax, given is the avatars who get a limited version of the True Form's power, and not the other way around. Because again, Arceus is not like Mashymre. Is like ToTU here, and has 5D feats of creation/sustenance like Creation Trio does with the 2-A multiverse.

I hope this nonsense ends here ngl.

.

 

[Sniper670]

The thing is that the plates that all Pokémon powers come from, is something it's true form doesn't need.

In PLA, he refers to them as his "blessings", and let's you keep it. Its only ever useful for its avatars

In case you didn't know, his True Form is an abstract who exists within everything and everyome, but his true essence exists beyond the verse.

Anything "physical" like stone plates is just not him bro. The verse doesn't even downscale from Him, they downscale from the plates, which downscale from Him

 

[QuasiYuri]

Why do you people make it all about Pokémon when it's not exactly the subject ? You were against double standard in the previous thread, now you want to install one...?

 

[Pikaman]

Why do you people make it all about Pokémon when it's not exactly the subject ? You were against double standard in the previous thread, now you want to install one...?

Arceus’ situation is in a way unique to the situation we’re dealing with in the question, and that combined with the fact this thread was made after/during an Arceus match means yeah, they are going to be a focus.

Also all you’ve done here is complain about the fact the last CRT passed and accuse people of trying to install a double standard in a situation where there is no standard…?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why do you people make it all about Pokémon when it's not exactly the subject ? You were against double standard in the previous thread, now you want to install one...?

I think is more that is needed an explanation on why Arceus' hax shouldn't scale which is not one which applies on just beings who become Higher D from a Lower D form.

 

[Vietthai96]

I find it really funny that people defend Arceus, while there is Honkai Energy case which no different from Arceus at all. That energy come from 11D Realm Sea of Quanta, but no one suddenly claim it have 11D potency with everything at all because all of it feat until now was just affecting 3D human and environment on Earth. Only it Spatial and BFR is 11D due to it blatantly cut 11D space from the Earth to the Sea and can throw people to it. And it have 11D resistance due to it protect user from the harmful effect of the Sea.

 

[Sniper670]

Why do you people make it all about Pokémon when it's not exactly the subject ? You were against double standard in the previous thread, now you want to install one...?

Pokémon is a prime example which is why.

I don't believe it's double standards at all. Yes, some characters can be 5D and not low 1C like mister mxy but Arceus is low 1C. And the verse downscales from plates that massively downscales from him.

They're both very different scenarios.

People just scared if Arceus hax carries over he stomps

 

[Sniper670]

I find it really funny that people defend Arceus, while there is Honkai Energy case which no different from Arceus at all. That energy come from 11D Realm Sea of Quanta, but no one suddenly claim it have 11D potency with everything at all because all of it feat until now was just affecting 3D human and environment on Earth. Only it Spatial and BFR is 11D due to it blatantly cut 11D space from the Earth to the Sea and can throw people to it. And it have 11D resistance due to it protect user from the harmful effect of the Sea.

Okay what if the 11D realm was Arceus. And he created it.

 

[Vietthai96]

Okay what if the 11D realm was Arceus. And he created it.

he only has 11D creation, that all. If there is one

 

[Sniper670]

he only has 11D creation, that all. If there is one

So why does Honkai have 11D resistances

 

[Sniper670]

You're implying Arceus creating an 11D realm cannot affect it with his hax but somehow his fodder can gain 11D abilities directly from it

 

[Vietthai96]

So why does Honkai have 11D resistances

And it have 11D resistance due to it protect user from the harmful effect of the Sea.

Did you seriously read all of my comment

You're implying Arceus creating an 11D realm cannot affect it with his hax but somehow his fodder can gain 11D abilities directly from it

At this point i'm seriously doubt you know what you arguing

 

[Sniper670]

Whatever you say boss

 

[Pikaman]

I find it really funny that people defend Arceus, while there is Honkai Energy case which no different from Arceus at all. That energy come from 11D Realm Sea of Quanta, but no one suddenly claim it have 11D potency with everything at all because all of it feat until now was just affecting 3D human and environment on Earth. Only it Spatial and BFR is 11D due to it blatantly cut 11D space from the Earth to the Sea and can throw people to it. And it have 11D resistance due to it protect user from the harmful effect of the Sea.

I know nothing about Honkai, to the point this could be me misunderstanding your point entirely, but surely you can agree there’s a difference between a character drawing power from a higher D construct, and being a higher D construct?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Arceus’ situation is in a way unique to the situation we’re dealing with in the question, and that combined with the fact this thread was made after/during an Arceus match means yeah, they are going to be a focus.

Also all you’ve done here is complain about the fact the last CRT passed and accuse people of trying to install a double standard in a situation where there is no standard…?

His situation is far from being unique tho. There's more than one verse with a single tier 1.

There's already a standard, yes. Unless you somehow imply Pokémon is the only verse with a single tier 1 here, which would be wrong.

Besides, DontalkDT already gave the evidence as to why there's no "special treatment" to give there (which is the standard already in use).

 

[Vietthai96]

I know nothing about Honkai, to the point this could be me misunderstanding your point entirely, but surely you can agree there’s a difference between a character drawing power from a higher D construct, and being a higher D construct?

1. Honkai don't drawing power from Higher D place, it directly originate from that place. No one gonna claim it potency without feat or at least good statement
2. You trying to claim that all Plate power must be 5D. The problem is, True Form Arceus never show feat using those plate powers, and those power best feats is 4D feat, so that you guy trying to upscale Plate potency to 5D because all these Plate happen because of him. No one deny 5D for his true form tab's abilities

 

[Sniper670]

To throw my voice in here (although it's the same as in the last thread):
5D size and AP are just that, size and AP. No showings of usage on this level = no hax on that level. Simple as that.

Yes. But we're under the assumption that Arceus cannot affect a 5D construct when it's been mentioned gazzilion times he embodies and controls the Pokéverse reality. Why the heck can he create a 5D construct but can't affect it with his powers. It's not just limited to Ap bro. Unless you can prove the 5D realm transcends Arceus somehow

We have never powerscaled hax with power and shouldn't start doing it just because of fancy dimension terms.

We don't, sure. But my point above sums it up. Pokémon downscale from the plates that downscale massively from his true form. It's a R-F difference plus HDE for arceus

 

[Sniper670]

1. Honkai don't drawing power from Higher D place, it directly originate from that place. No one gonna claim it potency without feat or at least good statement

Arceus embodies a 5D realm. What feats. Is it not from extracting power from the realm? You can correct me if I'm wrong there

2. You trying to claim that all Plate power must be 5D. The problem is, True Form Arceus never show feat using those plate powers, and those power best feats is 4D feat, so that you guy trying to upscale Plate potency to 5D because all these Plate happen because of him. No one deny 5D for his true form tab's abilities

The Plates aren't 5D. His True Form does not need the plates at all. It's only for its manifestation. True form is an abstract entity and has no use for rocks with powers imbued into them

Let me repeat myself. The Plates, downscale massively from his true form. And all Pokémon powers come from the plates. The plates are irrelevant. That's not what is 5D, His True Form is

 

[QuasiYuri]

Yes. But we're under the assumption that Arceus cannot affect a 5D construct when it's been mentioned gazzilion times he embodies and controls the Pokéverse reality. Why the heck can he create a 5D construct but can't affect it with his powers. It's not just limited to Ap bro. Unless you can prove the 5D realm transcends Arceus somehow

It is limited to AP. In fact your last sentence is literaly "unless you can prove the realm has a higher AP" which is unrelated to hax.

 

[Sniper670]

If you think limiting his True Form's hax to his Avatars and limiting his powers to plates that are irrelevant to his True Form is the best way to go, that's you. I'm out of here

 

[Vietthai96]

Arceus embodies a 5D realm. What feats. Is it not from extracting power from the realm? You can correct me if I'm wrong there

......his feats of using his power of course. You don't just assume that because he is 5D being so everything is 5D without showing

Let me repeat myself. The Plates, downscale massively from his true form. And all Pokémon powers come from the plates. The plates are irrelevant. That's not what is 5D, His True Form is

Downscale or upscale in this case is depend on perspective. From Arceus it is downscale, from Plate's perspective it is upscale so no different, it is just you who choose the different perspective. The Plate which is the manifest of his power show 4D feats, and he as a 5D guy has no feat at all. Anyway i already make my point so.........

 

[Sniper670]

Yes. His plates are related to and for the 4D multiverse. He transcends the 4D multiverse and has no use for the plates

The case for WOH. Otherwise everyone in the Honkai verse would all be 11D by now

 

[QuasiYuri]

Yes. His plates are related to and for the 4D multiverse. He transcends the 4D multiverse and has no use for the plates

The case for WOH. Otherwise everyone in the Honkai verse would all be 11D by now

And his hax have no "5D" feats.
Hell, there's literaly 0 "5D" souls in the verse but since Arceus has big AP his hax suddenly become able to affect them?

 

[Delta333]

Mfw the only 5-D things on Arceus profile are probably HDE and Omnipresence yea no 5-D AP cuz since when he creates or destroys 5-D durability/structure

 

[Pikaman]

You are arguing that Arceus’ hax don’t work in his own 5D construct. Come on.