Hunter x Hunter - Downgrading Ryu and Ko

[TioKill]

This is a two-part downgrade thread where I intent to downgrade both the Nen multiplier of Ryu and Ko, as well as the speed of the verse. The first part will be dealing with the multipliers through Ryu and Ko specifically.

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Let's start with the easy part, explaining why we currently believe the Ryu/Ko techniques even multiply one's strength in the first place is based around this statement from Bisky.

Ryu is stated to shift the amount of aura in a portion of your body, so it goes along with this line as welll.

---

I plan on adjusting the Multipliers to take into account the efficiency of each Nen Type, after all, Ryu and Ko are reinforcement techniques, and thus only Enhancers can use the 100% efficiency.

Let's focus on the matter at hand, right?

---

So, as @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson accidentally helped me realize is that, Nen efficiency does play a factor in how efficienct your Ko and Ryu is. Aka, only Enhancers have access to the 10 times multiplier. Funny.

We need to adapt their profiles to this chart:

Emmiters and Transmuters like Knuckle and Killua respectively would only have an efficiency of 80%, aka, a 8 times multiplier with Ko.

Manipulators and Conjurers like Zushi and Kurapika respectively would only have an efficiency of 60%, aka, a 6 times multiplier with Ko.

It says specialists have an efficiency of 40%, but I don't know if it has ever been confirmed to be the case, and Kurapika's ability seems to outright refute that. Pitou is a specialist but they haven't shown the capability of using Ryu or Ko.


Furthermore, the use of Ko leaves the body - originally several dozen times weaker than their nen strength - totally unguarded. So we need to figure out if we should divide their durability by 24, or dowscale them. But either way, they should get "lower in most of their body while using Ryu, drastically lower while using Ko"

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The downgrade can potentially happen, but the argument is incomplete and should be improved first.

For instance, you missed critical evidence which has been pointed out in the HxH overhaul thread (Congrats to everyone on HxH getting out of Hiatus btw, looking forward to the next hiatus in a couple of months),, in which the energy in a Rock punch that hasn't been fully charged is estimated to be 10 times more powerful than Gon's regular punch:

Knuckle says that Gon outputs a bit more power than a regular Ken/Gyo after he says "Jan" (1800 -> 2000), but he outputs double the amount of power after he finishes activating his technique (4000):

But the Chimera Ant was judging the power in Gon's fist before he said "Jan", so that is a strong argument that a regular Gyo punch from a skill Nen user is a 10x boost, and the CRT needs to counter this for it to succeed.

Nen output varies, and it is entirely possible for a character's body to play an important part in their strength/durability alongside Nen (for example, Kurapika with Emperor Time wasn't sure his Nen-enhanced punch would be able to harm Uvogin after his Nen was sealed in Zetsu). But for skilled Nen users with decent physical training like post-Greed Island Gon, a 10x is a fair generalization.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I miss Charma

 

[TioKill]

The downgrade can potentially happen, but the argument is incomplete and should be improved first.

For instance, you missed critical evidence which has been pointed out in the HxH overhaul thread (Congrats to everyone on HxH getting out of Hiatus btw, looking forward to the next hiatus in a couple of months),, in which the energy in a Rock punch that hasn't been fully charged is estimated to be 10 times more powerful than Gon's regular punch:

Knuckle says that Gon outputs a bit more power than a regular Ken/Gyo after he says "Jan" (1800 -> 2000), but he outputs double the amount of power after he finishes activating his technique (4000):

But the Chimera Ant was judging the power in Gon's fist before he said "Jan", so that is a strong argument that a regular Gyo punch from a skill Nen user is a 10x boost, and the CRT needs to counter this for it to succeed.

Nevermind the fact Jajanken is a Hatsu technique, not Gyo, so we shouldn't generalize it at all in the first place.
Gon was actually using Transmutation in this particular panel, not enhancement. After all, he used Jan-ken-chi.

We shouldn't use a totally different aspect of Nen as evidence for either Ryu or Ko. Gon's technique has conditions and risks that increase his power output beyond his natural limits, so it's not the most reliable evidence.

Nen output varies, and it is entirely possible for a character's body to play an important part in their strength/durability alongside Nen (for example, Kurapika with Emperor Time wasn't sure his Nen-enhanced punch would be able to harm Uvogin after his Nen was sealed in Zetsu). But for skilled Nen users with decent physical training like post-Greed Island Gon, a 10x is a fair generalization.

I am not trying to downgrade his Jajanken, just the general hunter capability to multiply their strength by ten by focusing their aura.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The scans render your arguments completely moot. I recommend reading them again.

Nevermind the fact Jajanken is a Hatsu technique, not Gyo, so we shouldn't generalize it at all in the first place.
Gon was actually using Transmutation in this particular panel, not enhancement. After all, he used Jan-ken-chi.

We shouldn't use a totally different aspect of Nen as evidence for either Ryu or Ko. Gon's technique has conditions and risks that increase his power output beyond his natural limits, so it's not the most reliable evidence.

Knuckle was comparing the energy output of Gyo to the energy output from Hatsu. According to him, there is a slight energy boost from the Hatsu after Gon says "Jan", and a large increase after the technique is completed; this doesn't change if Gon uses Paper (or Scissors) instead of Rock. The Chimera Ant only witnessed the Gyo energy before the Hatsu boost kicked in when he made his observation, and it equivalent to 10x of Gon's normal punch.

 

[TioKill]

The scans render your arguments completely moot. I recommend reading them again.

Answer the arguments before acting like you've already defined an answer.

Knuckle was comparing the energy output of Gyo to the energy output from Hatsu.

Not at all. Gyo wasn't a subject on the topic. The idea Gon has to shout the word "Jan" in order to reach 2000 Aura is already ridiculous in the first place, it isn't one of the conditions or risks with the technique (as it would render surprise attacks useless, it'd have definitive been called out by Knuckle). No, surpassing his M.A.O (Maximum Aura Output) is an attribute of the technique itself because of it's lack of defense as a condition, Knuckle even says that himself.

It's very likely Knuckle was referring to the timing, as Gon didn't keep charging indefinitely after saying "Saichoo Guu" like he did with the Ant - instead said "Jan" right away after the first chant, which is what Knuckle noticed. His aura would have reached 2000 regardless of Gon's timing on shouting "Jan", Knuckle just used it as a frame of reference.

So, ultimately, the ant was measuring the aura of Gon's Hatsu, not his Gyo/Ko.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Answer the arguments before acting like you've already defined an answer.

Just pointing out that we don't need to go beyond the scans to respond to your argument.

Not at all. Gyo wasn't a subject on the topic. The idea Gon has to shout the word "Jan" in order to reach 2000 Aura is already ridiculous in the first place, it isn't one of the conditions or risks with the technique (as it would render surprise attacks useless, it'd have definitive been called out by Knuckle). No, surpassing his M.A.O (Maximum Aura Output) is an attribute of the technique itself because of it's lack of defense as a condition, Knuckle even says that himself.

It's very likely Knuckle was referring to the timing, as Gon didn't keep charging indefinitely after saying "Saichoo Guu" like he did with the Ant - instead said "Jan" right away after the first chant, which is what Knuckle noticed. His aura would have reached 2000 regardless of Gon's timing on shouting "Jan", Knuckle just used it as a frame of reference.

So, ultimately, the ant was measuring the aura of Gon's Hatsu, not his Gyo/Ko.

We can call it Ko (an application of Gyo) if you really want to be technical.
Saying Jan to reach 2000 is what knuckle observed, otherwise Gon's output was capped at 1800. Taking a pose and stating a chant is part of the risk. This does not mean that Gon can perpetually increase his Aura output with no limit beyond running out of his potential Aura reserves.
Gon was able to charge indefinitely before he used Paper, but further extending the technique deployment time plays no part in Knuckle's calculation/observation; according to Knuckle, Gon's attempts at Rock would've had the same Aura output as the delayed Paper if the technique was completed, and that there is no difference in output in the variations of Ja Jan Ken.

So, the output the Chimera Ant was observing was just for Ko, as Gon has yet to further activate or complete his technique for the Hatsu boost.

 

[TioKill]

Saying Jan to reach 2000 is what knuckle observed, otherwise Gon's output was capped at 1800. Taking a pose and stating a chant is part of the risk. This does not mean that Gon can perpetually increase his Aura output with no limit beyond running out of his potential Aura reserves.
Gon was able to charge indefinitely before he used Paper, but further extending the technique deployment time plays no part in Knuckle's calculation/observation; according to Knuckle, Gon's attempts at Rock would've had the same Aura output as the delayed Paper if the technique was completed, and that there is no difference in output in the variations of Ja Jan Ken.

So, the output the Chimera Ant was observing was just for Ko, as Gon has yet to further activate or complete his technique for the Hatsu boost.

I never once said Gon could keep charging more aura than his technique allows, no. I said he may keep charging indefinitely before saying Jan-Ken-Paa/Chi/Guu (although "holding the aura indefinitely" would be a better expression), that doesn't mean it will only jump to "over 2000" once "Jan" is shouted - again this assumes yelling the chant is part of the requirements of the technique.
It is not, his "aiko" or "round 2" already proved as much. He used paper, then immediately used Rock without shouting the chant for the element of surprise. I'm sure you know the moment I'm referring to, so I won't go and look for it unnecessarily.

Yelling the techniques name is just narrative cliche, Gon isn't required to shout "Jan" to increase his power past his MAO - it is never, and was never, a condition for Gon's technique. Again, what Knuckle observed was Gon saying "Show me Rock", and then immediately going "Jan" in his first iteration of the technique. He saw that, when he shouted "Jan", the 1800 from Gyo became +2000.
Thus, his observation associated the increase with "Jan", not due it being a requirement, but due to the timing he's referring to - interpreting was: "Shortly after you say "Show me Rock" - where you usually scream "Jan" - your aura increased past 2000."

I insist that, had Gon not shouted "Jan", it wouldn't delay this increment in power. In the ant example, the timing for his power increase has long passed - thus it's safer to say the ant is gauging the power of Gon's technique, rather than his Ko.

 

[TioKill]

Just pointing out that we don't need to go beyond the scans to respond to your argument.

Fine.

Knuckle's A.A.P/M.A.O evaluation was based solely on Gon's Ken, not his Gyo or Ko, making this comparison worthless.

To further refute this, and prove that Knuckle was just referring to "Jan!!" as a reference for the timing of the increase:

The example used in the very panel he says his aura shoots past 2000, Gon never shouted "Jan!!", Knuckle stopped him - and still made reference to that particular instance.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Knuckle's A.A.P/M.A.O evaluation was based solely on Gon's Ken, not his Gyo or Ko, making this comparison worthless.

The comparison is valid; if you are shifting and gathering the equally distributed Aura of Ken into your fist, you are not doing something that increases the overall amount of Aura. Hence Knuckle used Gon's Actual Aura Power to compare with the energy gathered in his fist.

To further refute this, and prove that Knuckle was just referring to "Jan!!" as a reference for the timing of the increase:

The example used in the very panel he says his aura shoots past 2000, Gon never shouted "Jan!!", Knuckle stopped him - and still made reference to that particular instance.

If he reached the point in the technique where he says Jan twice and he didn't one time, the total Aura output from these three Ja Jan Kens would still be around 5500. There is no contradiction.

 

[TioKill]

If he reached the point in the technique where he says Jan twice and he didn't one time, the total Aura output from these three Ja Jan Kens would still be around 5500. There is no contradiction.

My point isn't that there is a contradiction, but rather that the point where he shouts "Jan!!" is almost always immediate - and still, even when he doesn't shout it, the increase occurs anyway. As I said, literally shouting "Jan!!" is not a requirement to trigger his Jajanken - thus the comparison made by the ant is about the technique, not just basic Gyo.

 

[KingTempest]

What

 

[TioKill]

What

A Nenless Punch has a strength of x.

A Nen Punch has a strength of x + 10% of your aura power

When you use Ko, that 10% becomes 100%. The boost is increased by 10, but that doesn't mean x is multiplied by 10. Same applies to Ryu.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is a two-part downgrade thread where I intent to downgrade both the Nen multiplier of Ryu and Ko, as well as the speed of the verse. The first part will be dealing with the multipliers through Ryu and Ko specifically.

---

Let's start with the easy part, explaining why we currently believe the Ryu/Ko techniques even multiply one's strength in the first place is based around this statement from Bisky.

Ryu is stated to shift the amount of aura in a portion of your body, so it goes along with this line as welll.

---

Why is this invalid? It's quite simple. While 100% aura is 10 times 10% aura, that doesn't mean it's 10x attack power as well.

"What?", exactly. We just know the boost is 10 times more potent than it was before, but if the boost itself isn't known - or worst yet, if we don't know the capability of their nenless form, measuring how much stronger their attacks will be.


Example: Let's say having 10% aura makes your attacking power 1.5x stronger, or a 50% increase in AP. If so, 100% aura, or 10 times this would be a boost of 5 times, not 10. And would be a boost of 5 times over their Nenless AP which is unknown, so the boost would be unreliable when compared to their base nen AP. (3.33x)

So even if you wanted to use this line from Kurapika (which talks about abilities/Hatsu), we still wouldn't be able to use it for their base nen AP.

It should be removed. This doesn't affect people like Uvogin 20% because that's 20% of his overall aura, not just how much a particular part of his body have, aka, an Uvogin at 20% aura would still use 10% of that 20% on his punches, so it scales normally. Naturally doesn't affect Kurapika as well. It should be changed to "higher with Ryu, much higher with Ko"

This completely ignores an aspect of Nen explained to us all the way back in Yorkshin


It is Additive to your total offensive power explained above.
Also he is referring to reinforcing at 100% in terms of his Nen mastery not Ken or Gyo or anything like that.
This is the same chapter that Nen proficiencies are introduced

 

[TioKill]

This completely ignores an aspect of Nen explained to us all the way back in Yorkshin


It is Additive to your total offensive power explained above.
Also he is referring to reinforcing at 100% in terms of his Nen mastery not Ken or Gyo or anything like that.
This is the same chapter that Nen proficiencies are introduced

Being additive doesn't justify the multiplier, it further contradicts it.

This doesn't take into consideration the volume of the reinforcer's aura. Furthermore, this implies Ko from a Enhancer is barely a 2x increase, making a 10% punch a 10% upgrade.

I'm unsure on how that justifies the 10x multiplier

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Being additive doesn't justify the multiplier, it further contradicts it.

This doesn't take into consideration the volume of the reinforcer's aura. Furthermore, this implies Ko from a Enhancer is barely a 2x increase, making a 10% punch a 10% upgrade.

I'm unsure on how that justifies the 10x multiplier

You didn't listen to what I said. This is in regards to Type efficiency not attack power. As in enhancers can reinforce 40% "better" than say an Emitter. Furthermore all this has to do with the amount of aura you currently have. They made the aura equal to the flesh punch for simple ease of understanding.

Is a master Enhancer only 2 times as strong as he is with absolutely zero Nen? No, that is simply not the case.
This is a comparison that assumes both parties have exactly equal aura so that Efficiencies can come into play,
Showing how a Conjurer (Kurapika) would stand against an Enhancer with exact equal strength as him.

And yes it being additive does justify the 10x multiplier.
10 times whatever the efficiency they use to enhance themselves is still 10 times that of there normal base state.

 

[TioKill]

You didn't listen to what I said. This is in regards to Type efficiency not attack power. As in enhancers can reinforce 40% "better" than say an Emitter. Furthermore all this has to do with the amount of aura you currently have. They made the aura equal to the flesh punch for simple ease of understanding.

Is a master Enhancer only 2 times as strong as he is with absolutely zero Nen? No, that is simply not the case.

While I agree - and I just used your scan against you to showcase how dumb it was - "this is simply not the case" isn't a proper counter.
Why is it not the case? Because you don't feel like it?

Stop engaging in debates if you can't possibly argue for your point.

This is a comparison that assumes both parties have exactly equal aura so that Efficiencies can come into play,
Showing how a Conjurer (Kurapika) would stand against an Enhancer with exact equal strength as him.

And that plays into the conversation how? Because this seems to neither strengthen your point, nor attack mine - aka, worthless.

I understand Ko from a Conjurer is weaker than Ko from an Enhancer. So what?

And yes it being additive does justify the 10x multiplier.
10 times whatever the efficiency they use to enhance themselves is still 10 times that of there normal base state.

Did you stop at third grade, or do you not understand how proportional values work?

If a given value [n] is taken just as an additive to a given denominator (a character's base strength), the change of n will be dependent on the proportion between n and the denominator.

This is basic math.

A Nen Punch is x + y = (1) Force, where X is the flesh strength, and Y is aura strength.

A Ko Punch is x + 10y. It doesn't mean Force is suddenly 10.

Let x be 300 joules and y be 300.

300+300 = 600 joules.

Thus, a Ko Punch is

300+10×300 = 3300 Joules. That's not 10 times the initial strength. That's a little over 5 times the initial value.
Ah, of course, since math isn't your forte - remember order of operations before correcting the value above.

That's assuming Nen doubles your strength, by the way, which we don't know if it's true.

 

[TioKill]

Basically "this unquantifiable boost gets ten times more potent". Which is not a clear statement for the overall strength of the character being exponentially stronger, whiiich triggers our Multipliers clause.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

While I agree - and I just used your scan against you to showcase how dumb it was - "this is simply not the case" isn't a proper counter.
Why is it not the case? Because you don't feel like it?

Stop engaging in debates if you can't possibly argue for your point.

Stop engaging in debates about a series if you haven't even read the source material.
Zero nen is treated as an ABSOLUTE death sentence for even the strongest characters, in fact Knuckle even bases his nen ability on this fact.
People as strong as The KING and Youpi would have lost had Knuckles Hakoware gone off. Youpi already being 10+ times stronger than Knuckle so that already disproves your point

And that plays into the conversation how? Because this seems to neither strengthen your point, nor attack mine - aka, worthless.

I understand Ko from a Conjurer is weaker than Ko from an Enhancer. So what?

I brought this up because you wrongly assumed the graph was using reinforcement with Ko instead of demonstrating efficiencies.
So yeah, not worthless.

Did you stop at third grade, or do you not understand how proportional values work?

If a given value [n] is taken just as an additive to a given denominator (a character's base strength), the change of n will be dependent on the proportion between n and the denominator.

This is basic math.

A Nen Punch is x + y = (1) Force, where X is the flesh strength, and Y is aura strength.

A Ko Punch is x + 10y. It doesn't mean Force is suddenly 10.

Let x be 300 joules and y be 300.

300+300 = 600 joules.

Thus, a Ko Punch is

300+10×300 = 3300 Joules. That's not 10 times the initial strength. That's a little over 5 times the initial value.
Ah, of course, since math isn't your forte - remember order of operations before correcting the value above.

That's assuming Nen doubles your strength, by the way, which we don't know if it's true.

Sure that applies to weak Nen users who do not have very much aura but when we are talking about Master Nen users with mountains of it the difference is negligible. See my above points as for why that is the case.
In fact we have a bunch of evidence that just learning Nen increase your body many times over.
The difference between Nen and no Nen is so massive that even fodder mafia members have statements of taking 10 gunshots to the head without problem.
Are you really gonna say that that random mafia member could block bullets without any Nen if we are to believe that Physical strength comes into play as much as you say it does?

Also throwing insults at your opponent doesn't make me more inclined to believe you by the way.
Though I've seen you argue before and It seems you just can't help it.

 

[TioKill]

Stop engaging in debates about a series if you haven't even read the source material.

Nice accusation. I know the source material better than you do, bucko.

Zero nen is treated as an ABSOLUTE death sentence for even the strongest characters, in fact Knuckle even bases his nen ability on this fact.

That's still not a measurable gap. Fiction has different gaps in strength to classify one shots. One Piece, 2x strength and speed is enough to speedblitz and one shot. This means nothing.

Nenless Rammot can take Gon's Jajanken to the stomach, yet his Nen form isn't nearly that much stronger.

People as strong as The KING and Youpi would have lost had Knuckles Hakoware gone off. Youpi already being 10+ times stronger than Knuckle so that already disproves your point.

Oh yeah, Aura Quantity isn't a factor at all, huh?
Physically, these ants are nothing particularly special. They just have an absurd amount of aura. This doesn't apply to your average human who has normal amounts of aura. You literally cannot use Youpi who has more than 700000 Aura and punches that carry over 6000 Aura (IIRC Knuckle was worried Youpi's punch was going to pay back everything) to regular humans. Meruem's likely in the millions, while Morel, Knuckle are around 70000, with an AAP of 2000. It's literally not comparable.

I brought this up because you wrongly assumed the graph was using reinforcement with Ko instead of demonstrating efficiencies.
So yeah, not worthless.

Absolutely worthless, I didn't assume shit.

Sure that applies to weak Nen users who do not have very much aura but when we are talking about Master Nen users with mountains of it the difference is negligible. See my above points as for why that is the case.
In fact we have a bunch of evidence that just learning Nen increase your body many times over.

Prove it then, stop wasting my time.

The difference between Nen and no Nen is so massive that even fodder mafia members have statements of taking 10 gunshots to the head without problem.

That's not measurable nor does it justify the 10x multiplier.

Are you really gonna say that that random mafia member could block bullets without any Nen if we are to believe that Physical strength comes into play as much as you say it does?

Yes, I will say that. What's your response to that? Just appeal to absurdism? You cannot gauge the gap between their physical strength and their aura strength - unless you want to use calc stacking that is.
The graph you brought up showed it did. But no, no, "it's just to make it easier to understand".

Also throwing insults at your opponent doesn't make me more inclined to believe you by the way.
Though I've seen you argue before and It seems you just can't help it.

Yeah, yeah, bring tangible evidence to justify the multiplier or stop acting like a crybaby.

 

[TioKill]

Nah, we're removing this multiplier. 10x an unknown boost is not a 10x multiplier.

 

[Damage3245]

Nah, we're removing this multiplier. 10x an unknown boost is not a 10x multiplier.

I agree with this. Seems reasonable to remove it.

 

[Nierre]

From @GodlyCharmander:
"You all thought I wouldn't say anything about that huh?

The boost is literally quantifiable. Damage, you brought it up yourself last thread. A Nen User is many times stronger than a Non-Nen User."

 

[Damage3245]

The boost is literally quantifiable. Damage, you brought it up yourself last thread. A Nen User is many times stronger than a Non-Nen User."

That tells us nothing useful for the profiles. Of course a Nen user is many times stronger than a non-Nen user. So what?

 

[TioKill]

From @GodlyCharmander:
"You all thought I wouldn't say anything about that huh?

The boost is literally quantifiable. Damage, you brought it up yourself last thread. A Nen User is many times stronger than a Non-Nen User."

This is a boost over their flesh strength. Currently, we consider the boost over their basic nen strength.

Again, this is still not quantifiable because we have no idea how strong their flesh strength is. 240x an unknown value (several dozen + 100% aura) justifies the 10 times multiplier how exactly?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is a boost over their flesh strength. Currently, we consider the boost over their basic nen strength.

Again, this is still not quantifiable because we have no idea how strong their flesh strength is. 240x an unknown value (several dozen + 100% aura) justifies the 10 times multiplier how exactly?

Boosting flesh strength is literally a property of Nen Reinforcement.
Enhancers are a thing

 

[TioKill]

Boosting flesh strength is literally a property of Nen Reinforcement.
Enhancers are a thing

And? I'm looking for justification on why Ko is 10 times a regular nen punch. I've seen zero.

 

[Nierre]

That tells us nothing useful for the profiles. Of course a Nen user is many times stronger than a non-Nen user. So what?

From @GodlyCharmander:
"Using Tio's own methodology for their debunk should show how that comes into play, Damage. We will say their physical might is x like Tio did. I'll consider the boost to be 24x since Kurapika say several dozens.

• Strength: x ⠀
• Nen Strength: 24x ⠀⠀
• Ko Strength: 240x

Ko is still 10 times the nen strength regardless if we know their flesh strength or not, because we know their nen strength, which has a measurable value via feats. Funny how Tio claims people don't know basic math while missing basic rule of three.

100% aura is ten times 10% aura, and results in a 10 times boost proportionally in every occasion."

 

[Damage3245]

@Nierre; excuse me, but why are you posting arguments from somebody who is perma-banned? If that's what is happening here, then I will not be responding to those posts.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

@Nierre; excuse me, but why are you posting arguments from somebody who is perma-banned? If that's what is happening here, then I will not be responding to those posts.

Wait, why are the arguments bad just because the person who came up with them is banned? Weekly was giving people arguments to use during his ban and no one had any big issues with that.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

And? I'm looking for justification on why Ko is 10 times a regular nen punch. I've seen zero.

Your the one thats arguing a 10x multiplier is not a 10x multiplier

 

[Nierre]

Yeah I thought that was allowed?

 

[Damage3245]

Wait, why are the arguments bad just because the person who came up with them is banned? Weekly was giving people arguments to use during his ban and no one had any big issues with that.

Did you ever see me say I had no issues with anything Weekly has ever done?

I refuse to participate in a debate with someone whose input is no longer permitted on this forum. If Nierre wants to act as a proxy for GodlyCharmander to still influence the wiki, then I will ignore him.

 

[Nierre]

So it is allowed, but you'll just ignore the arguments? Am I understanding you correctly.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Did you ever see me say I had no issues with anything Weekly has ever done?

I refuse to participate in a debate with someone whose input is no longer permitted on this forum. If Nierre wants to act as a proxy for GodlyCharmander to still influence the wiki, then I will ignore him.

Okay, in that case
Using Tio's own methodology for their debunk should show how that comes into play, Damage. We will say their physical might is x like Tio did. I'll consider the boost to be 24x since Kurapika say several dozens.

• Strength: x ⠀
• Nen Strength: 24x ⠀⠀
• Ko Strength: 240x

Ko is still 10 times the nen strength regardless if we know their flesh strength or not, because we know their nen strength, which has a measurable value via feats. Funny how Tio claims people don't know basic math while missing basic rule of three.

100% aura is ten times 10% aura, and results in a 10 times boost proportionally in every occasion.

 

[Nierre]

LOOOL

 

[Damage3245]

@Shmeatywerbenmanjenson Nice try. I appreciate the humor.

 

[Damage3245]

So it is allowed, but you'll just ignore the arguments? Am I understanding you correctly.

I mean, it's not something that you'll get reported over and banned for I believe - but it's really bad practice in my opinion. What is the point of banning someone if you're just going to post all their posts for them on the forum?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

@Shmeatywerbenmanjenson Nice try. I appreciate the humor.

And I appreciate you ignoring evidence against OP's case just because a banned person said it

 

[Damage3245]

I will delete extra comments that are just spam, guys. This isn't a Fun and Games thread.