Hunter x Hunter - Downgrading Ryu and Ko

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I will delete extra comments that are just spam, guys. This isn't a Fun and Games thread.

Yeah, this is a CRT debating the legitimacy of a 10x multiplier for Ko, Using statements and input from others to figure out the validity of the current scaling.
Input from others that YOU choose to ignore due to seemingly personal bias.

Sad to see a staff member abusing his power like this.

 

[Nierre]

well he's not abusing any power, he's just choosing to ignore it which... is pretty scummy but what can you do

 

[Deceived3596]

I mean, it's not something that you'll get reported over and banned for I believe - but it's really bad practice in my opinion. What is the point of banning someone if you're just going to post all their posts for them on the forum?

So you're actively not arguing against the premise of Nierre's post just because the argument came from a banned user?

That's fine but you're conceding that argument specifically via the burden of rejoinder as you aren't actually contesting the positive claim made by Nierre/Charmander.

 

[Damage3245]

Tio Kill is still completely free to address the posts and respond to the arguments. No abuse of power is here preventing the argument from being responded to at all.

But likewise you can't compel me to respond to a banned user's posts.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

well he's not abusing any power, he's just choosing to ignore it which... is pretty scummy but what can you do

Kinda, we need staff approval on CRT's to apply them. Him ignoring evidence despite the position of Admin supposedly being non-biased seems an abuse to me.

I would like to refute OP's claims some more but I have work so I will respond when I get the chance later today

 

[Damage3245]

Kinda, we need staff approval on CRT's to apply them. Him ignoring evidence despite the position of Admin supposedly being non-biased seems an abuse to me.

I would like to refute OP's claims some more but I have work so I will respond when I get the chance later today

You are also completely free to get more staff input into this CRT. Nobody ever said you only had to go just by my approval or disapproval.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Did you ever see me say I had no issues with anything Weekly has ever done?

I refuse to participate in a debate with someone whose input is no longer permitted on this forum. If Nierre wants to act as a proxy for GodlyCharmander to still influence the wiki, then I will ignore him.

Eh? I see double standards here. Why Weekly issue is fine, and this one is not? His arguments and his “personal issue” with wiki have nothing to do with each other.
You still did not refute any of his counter-arguments, it does not make your disagreement anywhere valid.

 

[Chariot190]

Did you ever see me say I had no issues with anything Weekly has ever done?

I refuse to participate in a debate with someone whose input is no longer permitted on this forum. If Nierre wants to act as a proxy for GodlyCharmander to still influence the wiki, then I will ignore him.

Just because he's banned doesn't mean his arguments are wrong.
Or what, would you prefer for someone to just regurgitate him word for word instead? Because that's basically what's going to happen if you don't just reply to them now instead of later. Don't waste time and just deal with it now if you think it's wrong.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It is like saying “Ya I dislike his family, so I will not refute any of his arguments, and his arguments are invalid due to this, therefore my disagreement is valid”

That's ad hominem and appeal to motive

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Off wiki stuff is off wiki stuff. Keep it to yourselves,please.

Sorry if I sound rude, as that is not my intention.

 

[Nierre]

You're completely missing the point, and your comment doesn't even add anything to the conversation

 

[Damage3245]

Eh? I see double standards here. Why Weekly issue is fine, and this one is not? His arguments and his “personal issue” with wiki have nothing to do with each other.
You still did not refute any of his counter-arguments, it does not make your disagreement anywhere valid.

I will quote myself once again:

Did you ever see me say I had no issues with anything Weekly has ever done?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I refuse to participate in a debate with someone whose input is no longer permitted on this forum. If Nierre wants to act as a proxy for GodlyCharmander to still influence the wiki, then I will ignore him.

And since when does “he is banned in the forum” make his counter-arguments fallacious or should not be refuted?
This is ad hominem and appeal to motive fallacy. I am sorry, but this does not make your disagreement anywhere valid on your side.

 

[Damage3245]

And since when does “he is banned in the forum” make his counter-arguments invalid or should not be refuted?
This is ad hominem and appeal to motive fallacy. I am sorry, but this does not make your disagreement anywhere valid on your side.

I'm not sure why you can't understand me on this issue. He is banned, so I see no point in arguing with him.

Quote all the fallacies you want, you won't get me to compromise on this point. As I said, it is still perfectly fine for other staff input to be called in since CRT's don't depend on just a single staff member. And nothing is stopping Tio Kill from responding to the argument either.

Why don't we wait to see what Tio Kill has to say to it?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm not sure why you can't understand me on this issue. He is banned, so I see no point in arguing with him.

Quote all the fallacies you want, you won't get me to compromise on this point. As I said, it is still perfectly fine for other staff input to be called in since CRT's don't depend on just a single staff member. And nothing is stopping Tio Kill from responding to the argument either.

Why don't we wait to see what Tio Kill has to say to it?

So you are fine that your staff input should not be considered valid since the reasoning behind it has nothing to do with OP, rather only with your own personal issue with the user?

 

[Chariot190]

I'm not sure why you can't understand me on this issue. He is banned, so I see no point in arguing with him.

Perhaps the fact his arguments might have merit and should be probably discussed and failing to do so actively works against us trying to have accurate profiles if potential information and debate is skipped over for trivial reasons such as that
This has less to do with who said it, but rather what is being said, ignoring it doesn't help anyone especially not the indexing we do.

So you are fine that your staff input should not be considered valid since the reasoning behind it has nothing to do with OP, rather only with your own personal issue with the user?

Damage didn't say he was fine when Weekly did, he probably just didn't know, and can't exactly change the past, though I agree Charm's arguments might have merit and should actually be discussed all the same.

 

[Damage3245]

So you are fine that your staff input should not be considered valid since the reasoning behind it has nothing to do with OP, rather only with your own personal issue with the user?

My staff input is based on the OP's arguments & evidence given. Currently I'm waiting to see how Tio Kill responds to this new argument before giving a final vote.

I'm not under any obligation to make the OP's arguments for him.

 

[Reiner04]

The person is banned for a reason, so I can see the reason for not wanting to argue with him as it'll be like he is not banned if he can still take part in these discussions But What's the arguements are “matters” not the“person” making it, so as long as members here use those arguements and evidences as of something that is they agree with rather than quoting it as of “Banned person want to say something”they are fine or else I don't see any point in banning people.

 

[ImmortalDread]

He is banned for a reason, no one is against it. Damage not refuting the “counter-arguments” due to this reason will not make any of his arguments anywhere valid either.
This is my issue. I have no issues with damage not wanting to address the argument, but his “vote” should not be effectual unless he addresses those counter-arguments which are meritoriousness and fundamental in the OP. And why I am saying this because his “vote” overvalues others due to his staff ranking.

Is it hard to split your own personal issues with the work? Refute “the arguments” without involving “who is addressing”.

 

[Reiner04]

He is banned for a reason, no one is against it.

I wasn't really reffering to damage rather was pointing towards quotings that was coming as something that “Godly charmender wants to say this”, he is banned so he cannot take part in discussions for a time being and about damage as I said:-

But What's the arguements are “matters” not the“person” making it, so as long as members here use those arguements and evidences as of something that is they agree with rather than quoting it as of “Banned person want to say something”they are fine

They can use those arguements or evidences if they see it fit but cannot make godly charmander as a part of the discussion.

 

[TioKill]

From @GodlyCharmander:
"Using Tio's own methodology for their debunk should show how that comes into play, Damage. We will say their physical might is x like Tio did. I'll consider the boost to be 24x since Kurapika say several dozens.

• Strength: x ⠀
• Nen Strength: 24x ⠀⠀
• Ko Strength: 240x

Ko is still 10 times the nen strength regardless if we know their flesh strength or not, because we know their nen strength, which has a measurable value via feats. Funny how Tio claims people don't know basic math while missing basic rule of three.

100% aura is ten times 10% aura, and results in a 10 times boost proportionally in every occasion."

Oh well.

Let x be 300 joules (human level)
Aura Strength is 7200 (24x)

300+7200 = 7500 joules.
300+7200×10 = 72300 Joules, that's close 9.64x

Well, I guess that's fair.


We should still address the efficiency issues and downgrade the character's durability when they use Ryu and Ko

 

[Nierre]

Oh well.

Let x be 300 joules (human level)
Aura Strength is 7200 (24x)

300+7200 = 7500 joules.
300+7200×10 = 72300 Joules, that's close 9.64x

Well, I guess that's fair.


We should still address the efficiency issues and downgrade the character's durability when they use Ryu and Ko

Thank you for addressing Charmander's response.

 

[KingTempest]

@Nierre; excuse me, but why are you posting arguments from somebody who is perma-banned? If that's what is happening here, then I will not be responding to those posts.

banned users arguments are allowed to be used, there's no rule against it and i've seen other admins allow it, as long as the messages they send break no rules

 

[TRAE_is_arceus]

Glad that that’s settled. Still not sure about the downgrade but glad we got this part cleared up

 

[Damage3245]

banned users arguments are allowed to be used, there's no rule against it and i've seen other admins allow it, as long as the messages they send break no rules

Fair enough, but I still refuse to engage GodlyChamander in debate - though it looks like we've moved past that now.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

perma-banned?

Wait, perma? Wasn't 6 mouths?

 

[Damage3245]

Wait, perma? Wasn't 6 mouths?

It was for 1 year, then extended to a perma-ban at the user's request. Let's not get off-topic here though.

 

[Reiner04]

Fr, man no more this topic or anything related to it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mfs, It was just a question

 

[TioKill]

Let's focus on the matter at hand, right?

---

So, as @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson accidentally helped me realize is that, Nen efficiency does play a factor in how efficienct your Ko and Ryu is. Aka, only Enhancers have access to the 10 times multiplier. Funny.

We need to adapt their profiles to this chart:

Emmiters and Transmuters like Knuckle and Killua respectively would only have an efficiency of 80%, aka, a 8 times multiplier with Ko.

Manipulators and Conjurers like Zushi and Kurapika respectively would only have an efficiency of 60%, aka, a 6 times multiplier with Ko.

It says specialists have an efficiency of 40%, but I don't know if it has ever been confirmed to be the case, and Kurapika's ability seems to outright refute that. Pitou is a specialist but they haven't shown the capability of using Ryu or Ko.


Furthermore, the use of Ko leaves the body - originally several dozen times weaker than their nen strength - totally unguarded. So we need to figure out if we should divide their durability by 24, or dowscale them. But either way, they should get "lower in most of their body while using Ryu, drastically lower while using Ko"

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Oh well.

Let x be 300 joules (human level)
Aura Strength is 7200 (24x)

300+7200 = 7500 joules.
300+7200×10 = 72300 Joules, that's close 9.64x

Well, I guess that's fair.


We should still address the efficiency issues and downgrade the character's durability when they use Ryu and Ko

This is what I'm talking about, once a character reaches a certain tier using there aura their physical might becomes negligible.
In order to prove your point that there physical strength plays a larger part then thought, you would have to find an example in which a Character WITHOUT Nen displays power at least comparable to other Nen users.

Once we reach 8-B (Which is what most of the low tiers scale to) their physical power becomes next to nothing compared to what Nen reinforcement makes up for
Currently the strongest non Nen users in the series is Gon with his pillar breaking feat at 6405794.87 Joules.
Baseline 8-B is 46024000000 Joules
46024000000 - 6405794.87 = 46017594200 Joules the VAST majority comes from Nen reinforcement
Physical Power makes up just 0.0139183793% of the total force

So Yes you are technically right about it not being a 10x Multiplier instead it is a 9.998608162x Multiplier for low tier Nen users.

And if you think that Nen itself does not account for all that extra force then by all means PROVE IT.
The burden of proof is on you trying to disprove that Nen reinforcement makes up the majority of a nen attack.
Even ignoring all the evidence against it it all boils down to "I say Nen reinforcement makes up the majority" vs "I say Physical might makes up a significant portion of a nen attack" In which case we turn to Occam's Razor which I believe favors my explanation.

Let's focus on the matter at hand, right?

---

So, as @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson accidentally helped me realize is that, Nen efficiency does play a factor in how efficienct your Ko and Ryu is. Aka, only Enhancers have access to the 10 times multiplier. Funny.

We need to adapt their profiles to this chart:

Emmiters and Transmuters like Knuckle and Killua respectively would only have an efficiency of 80%, aka, a 8 times multiplier with Ko.

Manipulators and Conjurers like Zushi and Kurapika respectively would only have an efficiency of 60%, aka, a 6 times multiplier with Ko.

It says specialists have an efficiency of 40%, but I don't know if it has ever been confirmed to be the case, and Kurapika's ability seems to outright refute that. Pitou is a specialist but they haven't shown the capability of using Ryu or Ko.

Nope, not the case
More Nen=More opportunity to enhance regardless of efficiencies

I will give an example using Nen users who all have the same size Aura
Human has a base power of 10
All these Nen users have an aura pool of 100,000
A master Enhancer can reinforce to 100,000
A master Emitter can reinforce to 80,000
A master Manipulator can Enhance to 60,000
The Aura amount is still increased by 10 using Ko
100,000 becomes 1,000,000
80,000 becomes 800,000
60,000 becomes 600,000
Your type affinity DOES NOT change the fact that Ko still increase said aura by 10x and since these Nen users have massive Aura pools there Physical attacks make up a mere fraction of there total output.
So it still is basically a 10x (9.99x do to their physical might technically playing a part) increase to AP regardless of Aura type or efficiency for all sufficiently strong Nen users.
It not being a 10x multiplier is only True for the weakest Hunters on the HxH page and since most can't even use Ko in their 9-A keys we don't even need to discuss it.

Furthermore, the use of Ko leaves the body - originally several dozen times weaker than their nen strength - totally unguarded. So we need to figure out if we should divide their durability by 24, or dowscale them. But either way, they should get "lower in most of their body while using Ryu, drastically lower while using Ko"

I agree with this there should be a key for a Nen user using Zetsu in which they scale to the 9-B value all Bottom tier hunters scale to

 

[TioKill]

This is what I'm talking about, once a character reaches a certain tier using there aura their physical might becomes negligible.
In order to prove your point that there physical strength plays a larger part then thought, you would have to find an example in which a Character WITHOUT Nen displays power at least comparable to other Nen users.

Once we reach 8-B (Which is what most of the low tiers scale to) this physical power becomes next to nothing compared to what Nen reinforcement makes up for
Currently the strongest non Nen users in the series is Gon with his pillar breaking feat at 6405794.87 Joules.
Baseline 8-B is 46024000000 Joules
46024000000 - 6405794.87 = 46017594200 Joules the VAST majority comes from Nen reinforcement
Physical Power makes up just 0.0139183793% of the total force

So Yes you are technically right about it not being a 10x Multiplier instead it is a 9.998608162x Multiplier for low tier Nen users.

And if you think that Nen itself does not account for all that extra force then by all means PROVE IT.
The burden of proof is on you trying to disprove that Nen reinforcement makes up the majority of a nen attack.
Even ignoring all the evidence against it it all boils down to "I say Nen reinforcement makes up the majority" vs "I say Physical might makes up a significant portion of a nen attack" In which case we turn to Occam's Razor which I believe favors my explanation.

Nope, not the case
More Nen=More opportunity to enhance regardless of efficiencies

I will give an example using Nen users who all have the same size Aura
Human has a base power of 10
All these Nen users have an aura pool of 100,000
A master Enhancer can reinforce to 100,000
A master Emitter can reinforce to 80,000
A master Manipulator can Enhance to 60,000
The Aura amount is still increased by 10 using Ko
100,000 becomes 1,000,000
80,000 becomes 800,000
60,000 becomes 600,000
Your type affinity DOES NOT change the fact that Ko still increase said aura by 10x and since these Nen users have massive Aura pools there Physical attacks make up a mere fraction of there total output.
So it still is basically a 10x (9.99x do to their physical might technically playing a part) increase to AP regardless of Aura type or efficiency for all sufficiently strong Nen users.
It not being a 10x multiplier is only True for the weakest Hunters on the HxH page and since most can't even use Ko in their 9-A keys we don't even need to discuss it.


I agree with this there should be a key for a Nen user using Zetsu in which they scale to the 9-B value all Bottom tier hunters scale to

A lot of headcanon numbers and calc stacking being thrown around, huh? I'm not wasting my time on any of them - just because we've already changed the course of the thread. except this:

"No, no, aura quantity is regardless of effi-"

Stop contradicting the very panel you brought up. If an enhancer reinforces their first with 100% of their aura, it will be stronger than conjurer doing the same.
This is a fact. End of story.

Also, no, we're not downscaling them to 9-B, their physical might is just several dozen times weaker, not 1 million

 

[TioKill]

All these Nen users have an aura pool of 100,000
A master Enhancer can reinforce to 100,000
A master Emitter can reinforce to 80,000
A master Manipulator can Enhance to 60,000
The Aura amount is still increased by 10 using Ko
100,000 becomes 1,000,000
80,000 becomes 800,000
60,000 becomes 600,000

Not to point out the obvious here, smart genius, but all three have 100,000 at their disposal (AAP), yet only the enhancer can make Ko 1,000,000. Regardless of the reason, the end result still is 80% and 60% what they should've been.
Your example literally debunks your own point what the heck.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

A lot of headcanon numbers and calc stacking being thrown around, huh? I'm not wasting my time on any of them - just because we've already changed the course of the thread. except this:

Stop contradicting the very panel you brought up. If an enhancer reinforces their first with 100% of their aura, it will be stronger than conjurer doing the same.
This is a fact. End of story.

Id like for you explain how this is in any way calc stacking.
All these Are straight from the HxH verse page

Also, no, we're not downscaling them to 9-B, their physical might is just several dozen times weaker, not 1 million

Calling my shit Headcannon huh.
Back this up with even a single instance in which this is the case, then I will be inclined to believe you

Not to point out the obvious here, smart genius, but all three have 100,000 at their disposal (AAP), yet only the enhancer can make Ko 1,000,000. Regardless of the reason, the end result still is 80% and 60% what they should've been.
Your example literally debunks your own point what the heck.

You sure you understand this correctly?
Ko is a 10x increase in aura regardless of Type, all the numbers up there are correct.
Sure they can only enhance with 60% of their aura but it doesn't change the fact that there 60% enhanced fist is gathering 10x the normal aura amount and as a result is 10x as strong as it would be normally.

 

[TioKill]

Id like for you explain how this is in any way calc stacking.
All these Are straight from the HxH verse page.

So just because you used calculations from the verse page, you are not calc stacking, huh?
No. You're using the result of two calculations and using them in a new one, that's textbook calc stacking.

Calling my shit Headcannon huh.
Back this up with even a single instance in which this is the case, then I will be inclined to believe you

Use your eyes, and head.

Nen > ~24x > Flesh

You sure you understand this correctly?

Understand what? Ko is reinforcement. Their aura is multiplied by 10, but their power/efficiency is 80% and 60%. It's literally not that hard.
Same thing happened to Gon's paper, which used 4000 Aura, but had a power of 500, or 1/8th

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So just because you used calculations from the verse page, you are not calc stacking, huh?
No. You're using the result of two calculations and using them in a new one, that's textbook calc stacking.

I didn't even make a calculation,I was just demonstrating how insignificant Physical power becomes once you become a strong Nen user.
Once again I use Gon as a basis for Physical power because we don't know how much physicals come into play. No Nen-less person in the series has demonstrated even a fraction of what the Mid and High tiers can do with Nen reinforcement so it hard to believe the Physical might even makes up a small percentage of the total power of a Nen attack.

Use your eyes, and head.

Nen > ~24x > Flesh

This literally disproves what your trying to state. Kurapika says that even learning "JUST THE BASICS" increases your power 24x over, so just imagine how much higher a master Nen user with mountains of Aura can achieve. Even if we use this as an absolute lowball the VAST MAJORITY of power still comes from Nen reinforcement.

Understand what? Ko is reinforcement. Their aura is multiplied by 10, but their power/efficiency is 80% and 60%. It's literally not that hard.
Same thing happened to Gon's paper, which used 4000 Aura, but had a power of 500, or 1/8th

Knuckle himself said this was because Gon hadn't trained enough in Emission.
To prove this if Gon really did use it to it's max potential then it would be 80% of Gon's 1800 aura with Rock which is not the case.
Just being close to Emission doesn't mean he can Automatically use emission attacks at 80% efficiency. He has to train to reach that maximum potential of 80%.
We literally see this in Greed island where he has to train in order to even emit anything, he doesn't start out immediately a master of emission

 

[TioKill]

I didn't even make a calculation,I was just demonstrating how insignificant Physical power becomes once you become a strong Nen user.
Once again I use Gon as a basis for Physical power because we don't know how much physicals come into play. No Nen-less person in the series has demonstrated even a fraction of what the Mid and High tiers can do with Nen reinforcement so it hard to believe the Physical might even makes up a small percentage of the total power of a Nen attack.

What is this then?

Currently the strongest non Nen users in the series is Gon with his pillar breaking feat at 6405794.87 Joules.
Baseline 8-B is 46024000000 Joules
46024000000 - 6405794.87 = 46017594200 Joules the VAST majority comes from Nen reinforcement
Physical Power makes up just 0.0139183793% of the total force

Is this the latest poetry? Latest album by Mozart? This is a calculation using calculated values - plain and simple. Your point is stacking.

This literally disproves what your trying to state. Kurapika says that even learning "JUST THE BASICS" increases your power 24x over, so just imagine how much higher a master Nen user with mountains of Aura can achieve. Even if we use this as an absolute lowball the VAST MAJORITY of power still comes from Nen reinforcement.

It literally doesn't. The basics is Ten, Zetsu and Ren, basic uses. Just having Nen makes you 24x stronger. Advanced techniques doesn't strengthen your Nen. It is stated that you can't change your total aura, just how much Nen you release at once with techniques or Ko.

Knuckle himself said this was because Gon hadn't trained enough in Emission.

This proves cost doesn't equal power output, I don't care about anything else in this argument.

To prove this if Gon really did use it to it's max potential then it would be 80% of Gon's 1800 aura with Rock which is not the case.

He can only use it to 80% if he trained, didn't you say that yourself? Stop contradicting yourself. And the Aura he uses with Jajanken is 4000.

Just being close to Emission doesn't mean he can Automatically use emission attacks at 80% efficiency. He has to train to reach that maximum potential of 80%.

Yes. I don't care about any of that.

We literally see this in Greed island where he has to train in order to even emit anything, he doesn't start out immediately a master of emission

Literally what does that have to do with the argument.

My point is, Ko is reinforcement/enhancement. A Conjurer uses 10x his aura, but his fist is only reinforced up to 80% efficiency. Thus he doesn't get the full power of the multiplier. Literally when did you even address this argument? Never.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Is this the latest poetry? Latest album by Mozart? This is a calculation using calculated values - plain and simple. Your point is stacking.

This only uses 1 Established calc and the other value is the baseline for 8-B which a large portion of the HxH verse scales to.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by using the strongest feat performed without Nen in the verse to demonstrate how negligible it becomes at higher tiers.
However since you consider that calc stacking we could just use normal human level as baseline for every Nen users physical might which would be an even smaller percentage of the total force of a Nen attack.

It literally doesn't. The basics is Ten, Zetsu and Ren, basic uses. Just having Nen makes you 24x stronger. Advanced techniques doesn't strengthen your Nen. It is stated that you can't change your total aura, just how much Nen you release at once with techniques or Ko.

That's not the case tho



Where is it stated that you can't increase your total aura amount?
There are multiple other statements besides the one above that say the exact opposite is the case

He can only use it to 80% if he trained, didn't you say that yourself? Stop contradicting yourself. And the Aura he uses with Jajanken is 4000.

Once sentence later I explain why that is not the case. I was just giving an example and showing that it was wrong

Literally what does that have to do with the argument.
My point is, Ko is reinforcement/enhancement. A Conjurer uses 10x his aura, but his fist is only reinforced up to 80% efficiency. Thus he doesn't get the full power of the multiplier. Literally when did you even address this argument? Never.

What I addressed was that it is a 10x increase in aura amount regardless of efficiency, Thus disproving your point

 

[TioKill]

This only uses 1 Established calc and the other value is the baseline for 8-B which a large portion of the HxH verse scales to.

That is calc stacking, you literally can't do that.

However since you consider that calc stacking we could just use normal human level as baseline for every Nen users physical might which would be an even smaller percentage of the total force of a Nen attack.

Can't do that either, Hunters are superhuman characters.

That's not the case tho



Where is it stated that you can't increase your total aura amount?
There are multiple other statements besides the one above that say the exact opposite is the case.

Fair enough.

Once sentence later I explain why that is not the case. I was just giving an example and showing that it was wrong.

You are confused with what I'm arguing.
My only point is that aura cost is not equivalent to aura power, Gon proved that already.

What I addressed was that it is a 10x increase in aura amount regardless of efficiency, Thus disproving your point

How? I say "Yes, aura is increased tenfold, but it has only 80% efficiency, thus only 8/10th of the power".
You literally admitted to that, stop running in circles.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

That is calc stacking, you literally can't do that.

Can't do that either, Hunters are superhuman characters.

Then what do you propose I do?
I'm only doing this to show how small physical might plays in a Nen attack.
After 8-B and above it becomes such a small difference to the multipliers, so instead of a 10x we get a 9.99x multiplier for most characters which doesn't really affect anything.

I agree that we shouldn't apply the multiplier to weak Nen users as It would somewhat affect them if the 24x increase is to be believed but that is all it would apply to. The 9-A's who know Ko (Barely anyone) would be the only profiles affected

Fair enough.

Glad we can agree on this

You are confused with what I'm arguing.
My only point is that aura cost is not equivalent to aura power, Gon proved that already.

How? I say "Yes, aura is increased tenfold, but it has only 80% efficiency, thus only 8/10th of the power".
You literally admitted to that, stop running in circles.

I really don't know how to explain this any other way to you man but I will try my best
2 Nen users have 100 aura
1 Enhancer and 1 Emitter and both our sufficiently trained to use there type to it's max potential (100% and 80% respectively)
The Enhancer user Ko and his power becomes 1000
The Emitter user Ko and his power becomes 800
The Emitter is indeed 20% weaker but the amount that he can Enhance, 80 power (80% of the Enhancers) is still increased by 10x to 800 (10x it's original amount).
Ko is purely Aura based increase and there is zero evidence it is not a 10x increase for all types. Biscuit treats it as a universal constant for all types.
She explains it as a 10x increase regardless of type. If it was affected by type she would have said something.
Because she doesn't we have no reason to believe it doesn't apply to all types.