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In the original mythos, three from what I've seen (Yog-Sothoth, The Nameless Mist, The Unnamed Darkness), and there are likely many more in the expanded mythos.
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I/O, Shin Megami Tensei, Umineko, Demonbane, Tenchi Muyo vs Marvel, DC, Ben 10, Cthulhu Mythos, The Dark Tower
- Thread starter fandom_420Swagnemite
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Team 2 has a chance with cthulhu mythos on their team I guess
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uhh guys, so are high 1-As still quantifyable in infinite dimensions?
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Cthulhu Mythos from what I know only has 4, High 1-A characters. Who else is there besides Yog-Sothoth, The Nameless Mist, The Unnamed Darkness and Randolph Carter.
@ LivingTribunal1: DarkLK's definition of that
"Infinite dimensional = absolutely weakest 1-A.
Weak dimensionless being = still pretty low 1-A
Low 1-A * infinity^infinity = high 1-A"
@ LivingTribunal1: DarkLK's definition of that
"Infinite dimensional = absolutely weakest 1-A.
Weak dimensionless being = still pretty low 1-A
Low 1-A * infinity^infinity = high 1-A"
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so, then high 1-As are beyond infinite dimension?
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Yep...
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Ah! I forgot about Randolph Carter. Also, there may be more in the expanded mythos, since many of the gods were upgraded. I asked Azathoth about that, but he hasn't responded.
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well then the discussion is over then, being beyond infinite - dimensions = truely unquantifyable, its like conparing uncountable infinity vs uncountable infinity, even if you add 100 of copies of team A to make a new team A, the result is still inconclusive
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Nope... if High 1-A is Infinity to the power Infinity times more powerful than 1-A (dimensionless) Characters . Then that means High 1-A is quantifiable.
I forgot whether or not Dimensionless is one level of Infinity above Infinite Dimensionals....
I forgot whether or not Dimensionless is one level of Infinity above Infinite Dimensionals....
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I would give it a draw. We can hardly classify the power of beings in this level. The only real classification one can do at this point is the Tier and in that respect they are the same. We are not talking about things anymore that can be expressed with numbers.
I would imagine I fight of beings at this level so, that each of them tries to use reality warping to erase the other ones. If there is no difference in speed (which we can not really tell at this level anymore) everyones power activates at the same time. The result should be decided in an instant with one of the powers (which one we couldn´t tell) overwriting the others in order to make the scenario happen that the user of the power wanted. I don´t think there would be something like a half result like just doing some damage or shielding against a power for some time. I think that would be against the absolute nature of the power.
But that is just how I would imagine it. I couldn´t prove that it goes like that.
I would imagine I fight of beings at this level so, that each of them tries to use reality warping to erase the other ones. If there is no difference in speed (which we can not really tell at this level anymore) everyones power activates at the same time. The result should be decided in an instant with one of the powers (which one we couldn´t tell) overwriting the others in order to make the scenario happen that the user of the power wanted. I don´t think there would be something like a half result like just doing some damage or shielding against a power for some time. I think that would be against the absolute nature of the power.
But that is just how I would imagine it. I couldn´t prove that it goes like that.
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dude, beign infinitely times stronger than ifninite dimensions IS unquantifyable,
that is the very definition of being absolutely endless
once again, its like comparing one unedning set to another unending set, where both are uncountable, technically 10 uncountable infinite sets have the same amount of components are one uncountable infinite set, because both of them are endless at the very literal difinition
since when did being immeasurable in ifninite dimensions become quantifiable?
that is the very definition of being absolutely endless
once again, its like comparing one unedning set to another unending set, where both are uncountable, technically 10 uncountable infinite sets have the same amount of components are one uncountable infinite set, because both of them are endless at the very literal difinition
since when did being immeasurable in ifninite dimensions become quantifiable?
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Could someone explain to me, the creator of this thread, what's going on here?
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They're saying this battle can't have a definitive winner, even if one side has more High 1-A beings, given how Tier 1 characters work, as having more characters of one tier does not make you stronger than a character in the same tier. So two High 1-A beings may not be stronger than one other High 1-A being.
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Ah I get
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Dimensions, science, and things that we can't comprehend but we try to anyways
Stuff like that is going on
Stuff like that is going on
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@everlasting: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes, thats if high 1-As are really unmeasurable even in ifninite dimensions, which seems t be the case, its a paradox
however, if they are measurable ifninfitine dimensional spacetime, then the battle can have a winner
there is nothing about comprehension, mathematicians do not compreghend infinity (either countable or uncountable), but they can still use it in logic, but what heppens when no logic whatsover is applied at all?
however, if they are measurable ifninfitine dimensional spacetime, then the battle can have a winner
there is nothing about comprehension, mathematicians do not compreghend infinity (either countable or uncountable), but they can still use it in logic, but what heppens when no logic whatsover is applied at all?
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When an Infinite Dimensional being can't perceive the existence of another character it simply means that the being is beyond the level of comprehension of the infinite Dimensional.
Logic literally applies to everything since we as beings bounded by logic made the concepts as such some degree of logic would still apply to them.
You can fit any 3-D object inside a 4-D space. Similar to how you can fit any dimensional structure inside a dimensionless space. And thus we can conclude that Dimensionless beings are infinitely stronger than Infinite Dimensional Beings.
And if they were truly (dimensionless and above) unquantifiable then we wouldn't even have the anything beyond Infinite Dimensional Characters...
Logic literally applies to everything since we as beings bounded by logic made the concepts as such some degree of logic would still apply to them.
You can fit any 3-D object inside a 4-D space. Similar to how you can fit any dimensional structure inside a dimensionless space. And thus we can conclude that Dimensionless beings are infinitely stronger than Infinite Dimensional Beings.
And if they were truly (dimensionless and above) unquantifiable then we wouldn't even have the anything beyond Infinite Dimensional Characters...
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I was joking
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Ok who were ya directing this statement to....Darkness552 said:
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@schutzen: once again- being a the peak of infinite dimensions/ beyond is absolutely unquantifiable, saying that there is something incomprehensible to a being beyond infinite dimensions is quite weird, since being above ifninite dimensions is literally being beyond the biggest infinity, how can soe thing be greater, and yes, the very god tiers of fiction would be above ifninite dimensioal being, having something beyond the being who already exceeds inifnite dimensions makes no sense. So, once beyond ifninite dimensions, characters are like uncountable sets of infinity, they are never ending and are like walkign paradoxes (as in 10 such sets would have as such content as one such set- because the content is not limited at all, so its unending)
true infinity + 1 is still true infinity
and true infinity x 10 or 4 is still strue infintity
true infinity + 1 is still true infinity
and true infinity x 10 or 4 is still strue infintity
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TLT
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Don't really like the fact Ben 10 is more powerful then all of DC just because they are more Dimensional and DC also has more multiversal feats more then it as well.The Everlasting said:
Since DC has more dimensions as well
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...hierarchy-thread.313227/page-23#post-17534398
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@ TLT: I never said there is something incomprehensible to a being beyond infinite dimensions.
I simply said that if an Infinite Dimensional being can't perceive the existence of another character it simply means that the being is beyond the level of comprehension of the infinite Dimensional which would make the being a dimensionless character .
I simply said that if an Infinite Dimensional being can't perceive the existence of another character it simply means that the being is beyond the level of comprehension of the infinite Dimensional which would make the being a dimensionless character .
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Well, the Primal Monitor is more powerful than anything in Ben 10, but aside from that, Ben 10 has the 26-Dimensional Naljians, while the strongest DC being is the Great Evil Beast, who's at least 12-Dimensional.
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@schutzen: ok, wait, first of all , how can there be a being that a characyter which is already beyond infinite dimensions cannot percieve
yes, there can be being which are unpercievable to characters who themselves are measurable in infinite dimesions, but please explain how can there be a being beyond a being which is already beyond infinite dimensions
keep in mind that the whole point of debate here is that a few more high 1-As cannot beat a fewer number of high 1-As
yes, there can be being which are unpercievable to characters who themselves are measurable in infinite dimesions, but please explain how can there be a being beyond a being which is already beyond infinite dimensions
keep in mind that the whole point of debate here is that a few more high 1-As cannot beat a fewer number of high 1-As
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Dude when the hell did I say that there can be a being (who is beyond Infinite Dimensional) fail to perceive the existence of another character cuz I don't remember saying that...
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wait, hold on, the whole arguement was a greater number of High 1-As cannot beat a fewer number of high 1-As, because both are already beyond infinite dimensions rite?
since they are already beyond ifninite dimensions, they are truely unquantifiable
but you then said that becuz high 1-A = infinite*infinite dimesnions, they are still quantifiale, but that didnt make sense, sinc being above literally the biggest kind of infinity masn that the character is absolutely unquantifiable
so, hence they are like sets of uncountable infinity, and hence pitting 4 high 1-As against 2 high 1-As will still be a stalemtate wont it?
thats my whole point (idk how it got so convoluted)
regular infinite dimensional beings arent even in the question here, here we are talking about being beyond infinite dimensions, and because all of these kinds of beings are truely endless, fighting a slightly larger team of these chaarcters against a slightly smaller team of these characters will still be a stalemate, which is exactly what this battle is like
I/O, Umineko and demonbane high 1-As will end up stalemating cthulhu's high 1-As becasue all of them are truely endless
thats what i am trying to say
since they are already beyond ifninite dimensions, they are truely unquantifiable
but you then said that becuz high 1-A = infinite*infinite dimesnions, they are still quantifiale, but that didnt make sense, sinc being above literally the biggest kind of infinity masn that the character is absolutely unquantifiable
so, hence they are like sets of uncountable infinity, and hence pitting 4 high 1-As against 2 high 1-As will still be a stalemtate wont it?
thats my whole point (idk how it got so convoluted)
regular infinite dimensional beings arent even in the question here, here we are talking about being beyond infinite dimensions, and because all of these kinds of beings are truely endless, fighting a slightly larger team of these chaarcters against a slightly smaller team of these characters will still be a stalemate, which is exactly what this battle is like
I/O, Umineko and demonbane high 1-As will end up stalemating cthulhu's high 1-As becasue all of them are truely endless
thats what i am trying to say
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Sigh, you agree that there is a difference in power between Dimensionless characters right. Since The Choushin are weaker than Demonbane right...
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yes
i agree
thats what i was saying
but what i am really saying about this battle is that having 5 high 1-As in team 1 and 4 high 1-As in team 2 will still yield in a stalmate
i agree
thats what i was saying
but what i am really saying about this battle is that having 5 high 1-As in team 1 and 4 high 1-As in team 2 will still yield in a stalmate
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No it won't. Both the The Choushin and Elder God Demonbane are dimensionless characters yet there is a difference in power.
High 1-A characters are simply characters which are stronger than normal 1-A (dimensionless) characters as such their powers can be quantified and are not infinite on their scale.
If their powers are not infinite on their scale then that means that a 2 vs 1 battle between High 1-A Characters (whose individual powers are equal to each other) would result in the two High 1-A characters winning...
This is what I'm talking about...
High 1-A characters are simply characters which are stronger than normal 1-A (dimensionless) characters as such their powers can be quantified and are not infinite on their scale.
If their powers are not infinite on their scale then that means that a 2 vs 1 battle between High 1-A Characters (whose individual powers are equal to each other) would result in the two High 1-A characters winning...
This is what I'm talking about...
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look, if things are alreasy beyond infinite dimensions, then they are endless in its absolute sense
and if there is stil something beyond them then its a paradox, i mean being immeasurable/ beyond infinite dimesnions is the biggest of all scales, in fact its so big, that its absolutely inquantifiable, like an uncountable infinity, logic dicatates, that even iff you were to multiply this 'power' by an amount it will still be the same- a boundless uncountable infinity
so, even if such a being were to face something like 2 other beings which are of the same power, it will be a stalemate
saying that 2 such beng can defeat one such being would imply that these beiings are not unlimited, and hence are not beyond infinite dimensions/ immesurable in infinite dimensions to begin with, but instead, are vast, but measurable within infinite dimensions, and appear to be immeasurable in infinite dimensions
now, in the case of high 1-A, all high 1-A being are truely immeasurable in infinite dimensions, so there can be nothing truely above them, and if there is, these high1-A being are not truely immeasruable in infinite dimensions to begin with. Because they are truely immeasurable in ifninite dimensions, a fight with a similar being will be a stalemate, and a fight with 2 or more similar being will still be a stalemate, it it isnt, the losing party wasnt beyond infinite dimensions to begin, and was instead just a vast quantity in the infinith dimension
and if there is stil something beyond them then its a paradox, i mean being immeasurable/ beyond infinite dimesnions is the biggest of all scales, in fact its so big, that its absolutely inquantifiable, like an uncountable infinity, logic dicatates, that even iff you were to multiply this 'power' by an amount it will still be the same- a boundless uncountable infinity
so, even if such a being were to face something like 2 other beings which are of the same power, it will be a stalemate
saying that 2 such beng can defeat one such being would imply that these beiings are not unlimited, and hence are not beyond infinite dimensions/ immesurable in infinite dimensions to begin with, but instead, are vast, but measurable within infinite dimensions, and appear to be immeasurable in infinite dimensions
now, in the case of high 1-A, all high 1-A being are truely immeasurable in infinite dimensions, so there can be nothing truely above them, and if there is, these high1-A being are not truely immeasruable in infinite dimensions to begin with. Because they are truely immeasurable in ifninite dimensions, a fight with a similar being will be a stalemate, and a fight with 2 or more similar being will still be a stalemate, it it isnt, the losing party wasnt beyond infinite dimensions to begin, and was instead just a vast quantity in the infinith dimension
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Anyhow this debate doesn't seem to be going anywhere and I need to go so lets see what others think...
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ok, lets agree to disagee
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One thing thou. Considering that The Choushin are weaker than Elder God Demonbane while both are dimensionless means that they do not posses infinite.unlimited power in terms of dimensionless space
I'll ask another person who's more knowledgeable on these type of things....
I'll ask another person who's more knowledgeable on these type of things....
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well then that simply means that the weaker being isnt truely dimensionless, and is instead very vast within the infinite dimension space such that it appears they are beyond infinite dimensions
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Everyone accepts The Choushin as dimensionless.
Anyhow I've asked a few people so lets wait for their input. But I'll still stand by my opinion that if the difference in power between dimensionless characters can be measured then 2 High 1-A characters should be capable of defeating 1 High 1-A Character.
Anyhow lets wait for more input on this...
Anyhow I've asked a few people so lets wait for their input. But I'll still stand by my opinion that if the difference in power between dimensionless characters can be measured then 2 High 1-A characters should be capable of defeating 1 High 1-A Character.
Anyhow lets wait for more input on this...
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if 2 immeasurable beings can defeat one supposedly immeasurable being, then, that one being wasnt immeasurable to begin with
thats all i am saying
thats all i am saying
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Since I was asked regarding the topic, if I am being biased, I would vote for I/O strictly on the basis that I hate cosmic horror stories and eldritch abominations. However, logically, I technically agree with that High 1-A are unquantifiable in relation to each other, and we do not really know for certain which of them that are stronger if they are part of different settings. So the thread is probably inconclusive regarding which of the franchises that are stronger.
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Dimensions is the only one of the possible perspectives. You can create a different perspective. You can say that the dimensionless being is like a character of fiction for a possible far stronger being. This is an alternative perspective. And you can construct an infinite hierarchy among dimensionless beings and it still will not be "truly infinite".
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Don't really like the fact Ben 10 is more powerful then all of DC just because they are more Dimensional and DC also has more multiversal feats more then it as well.
Since DC has more dimensions as well
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...hierarchy-thread.313227/page-23#post-17534398
It doesnt matter. A multiverse is only 5-11 spatial dimensions. 26 dimensional beings are bigger than the multiverse. Any character who can destroy 26 dimensional structures has more impressive feats than beings who can destroy multiverses.
Since DC has more dimensions as well
https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...hierarchy-thread.313227/page-23#post-17534398
It doesnt matter. A multiverse is only 5-11 spatial dimensions. 26 dimensional beings are bigger than the multiverse. Any character who can destroy 26 dimensional structures has more impressive feats than beings who can destroy multiverses.
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