Saqphire
She/Her- 1,572
- 1,883
Currently, half the cast scales to Massively FTL in reactions (with the Stands themselves scaling there in combat speed) due to Silver Chariot's feat of him intercepting Hanged Man, as well as Kars scaling to FTL+ based on his own feat of blocking ultra-violet light. I believe this line of scaling is extremely wrong for several reasons, both narratively and consistently. While I have problems with the calculation itself, I am trying to tackle the scaling itself which is why it's a CRT, not a calc evaluation thread.
Problem 1: Anti-Statements
It makes absolutely zero sense for Polnareff (Silver Chariot) to be Massively FTL when he himself literally concedes inferiority to Hanged Man in the first place in both combat and reaction speed (again, for Chariot, not his normal form). This matters because Polnareff is literally the one controlling Silver Chariot in the first place which we know is the case because that's how Close Range Stands work in the first place, it isn't an autonomous or posthumous stand like Sheer Heart Attack or Anubis for example. So if Silver Chariot is MFTL, so is Polnareff in reaction and combat speed. Which is wrong according to the man himself.
There was also a moment where Silver Chariot was capable of intercepting Hanged Man from a further distance away, but not only did Polnareff himself get blitzed, that interception was only possible because he knew of it's trajectory. In other words, Silver Chariot needs to aim dodge the light. Even Centerfold, the user of Hanged Man, acknowledges that Polnareff has to aim dodge the attacks and when he becomes unpredictable, Silver Chariot literally cannot do sh*t against him. If Silver Chariot was MFTL, the unpredictability of a SOL attack wouldn't matter here.
In fact, that's literally the whole point of Polnareff defeating Centerfold in the first place, he had to force Hanged Man to move a direction that Polnareff knew he would be going so he could tag him; if Silver Chariot was MFTL, then there would be zero stakes in that fight whatsoever.
To be clear; I am aware that Stands and users aren't accepted to be 1:1 in speed, but Polnareff (and thus I) would be talking about Silver Chariot itself + Polnareff's own reaction has to scale to Silver Chariot for him to control it in the first place
Another anti-statement to mention is that Araki himself was saying that stands can't move faster than the speed of light usually. Obviously, this doesn't count Jotaro and DIO because of the former's FTL statements and the fact that they aren't usual people in the verse, however because of how we index the scaling, most stands are usually MFTL, which isn't even correct here according to Araki lmao
Silver Chariot being MFTL also makes the scenario where he fights the Sun pretty much an illogical fight because that Stand, which is accepted to have lightspeed attacks because of the numerous statements of it using light in general, makes SC struggle to even react, even when the former Stand was firing from a distance further than 100 metres away. Someone with MFTL reactions would easily outpace the Sun's beams here with short movements yet the Sun is clearly going relative to his reaction speed.
Another problem I've seen with this chain scaling is the assumption that Alternate Diego's stand THE WORLD has the same stats as Dio's THE WORLD because they simply look the same and act the same. This is just a clearcut association fallacy where it cherry picks traits to get granted the scaling here because we forget that in Part 7, bullet feats are literally seen as top tier. We know this is the case because:
So are we gonna say the bullets (and also horses) are MFTL now? Brother please
, just because the stands act and look the same, that doesn't mean the stats are the same; this is literally a trope in Part 3 where Star Platinum, which has the same stand as DIO, had differing stats from DIO's Stand
postimg.cc
Problem 3: Anime Usage
The calculation uses the anime to justify the distances that both entities move, but the issue is that the anime itself isn't even accepted to be canon to the main series. From that standard alone, the calc shouldn't even be used.
Problem 4: Calculation Assumptions
The calculation itself pretty much assumes that Silver Chariot did all of that distance when the light moved a miniscule one, which is a very extraordinary assumption. While yes, in the anime those distances were what was happening in the feat, that's not necessarily what happened in the manga because all we see is Silver Chariot react to Kakyoin scream "NOW" and then we see SC appear; there is nothing that speaks against the conservative interpretation that Silver Chariot moved as the light started to move in the manga or even before that. Unless Kakyoin screams "now" at speeds massively faster than light of course
Furthermore, the anime version of the scene blatantly contradicts established statements and feats in the manga itself, which I established in the other sections above.
Problem 5: Outlier
Even without all of the problems in general, the feat is not even close to being consistent in the first place because this is the only feat in the verse that gets this high in speed. The only other feat in the verse that's even close would be Kars' blocking Ultraviolet light (which is around 5.6x slower than SC's feat), which not only is wrong because not only is that not how ang sizing works, the feat blatantly contradicts the point blank feat standards that we have on here which say this:
And if Kars was actually 40 times the speed of light, he wouldn't even get tagged or hurt by the UV light in the first place, bro woulda outpaced it super easily.
I am also aware that Kars was off-guarded by Stroheim here, but that doesn't handwave the fact that a 40x disparity in speed wouldn't allow an off-guard to even happen in the first place unless explicitly stated.
EDIT: Some new info was brought to my attention that Kars can actually sense heat to a super precise degree, which means it was extremely likely that he was aim dodging that feat too because UV lights emit heat.
postimg.cc
Kars also has the plane anti-feat, but it's not that important to adress as that's pretty much just PIS, honestly.
Solution
1. Remove both feats. Silver Chariot is narratively intended to aim dodge the feat here and according to the aim dodging standards, that doesn't fly here. Kars' feat is a point blank feat that makes no sense here either.
2. Re-scale everyone in the original JoJos to Joseph and Ceasar's feat which is at 0.82c. Or nuke that too, it's also problematic but it's not contradictory at least.
3. Nerf everyone in the new timeline to like Subsonic or something. These bullet and horse speed timers are not even close to lightspeed, let alone MFTL bro.
4. Nerf Jotaro and DIO to merely FTL because of Jotaro and Star Platinum's statements of them being FTL. As well as Kars being Speed of Light cuz of his own feat of reacting to UV light
5. Pucci's scaling is fine btw, no one scales to him regardless, although he does have an anti feat of getting hit by an MFTL spear lol
Staff Votes
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Problem 1: Anti-Statements
It makes absolutely zero sense for Polnareff (Silver Chariot) to be Massively FTL when he himself literally concedes inferiority to Hanged Man in the first place in both combat and reaction speed (again, for Chariot, not his normal form). This matters because Polnareff is literally the one controlling Silver Chariot in the first place which we know is the case because that's how Close Range Stands work in the first place, it isn't an autonomous or posthumous stand like Sheer Heart Attack or Anubis for example. So if Silver Chariot is MFTL, so is Polnareff in reaction and combat speed. Which is wrong according to the man himself.
There was also a moment where Silver Chariot was capable of intercepting Hanged Man from a further distance away, but not only did Polnareff himself get blitzed, that interception was only possible because he knew of it's trajectory. In other words, Silver Chariot needs to aim dodge the light. Even Centerfold, the user of Hanged Man, acknowledges that Polnareff has to aim dodge the attacks and when he becomes unpredictable, Silver Chariot literally cannot do sh*t against him. If Silver Chariot was MFTL, the unpredictability of a SOL attack wouldn't matter here.
In fact, that's literally the whole point of Polnareff defeating Centerfold in the first place, he had to force Hanged Man to move a direction that Polnareff knew he would be going so he could tag him; if Silver Chariot was MFTL, then there would be zero stakes in that fight whatsoever.
To be clear; I am aware that Stands and users aren't accepted to be 1:1 in speed, but Polnareff (and thus I) would be talking about Silver Chariot itself + Polnareff's own reaction has to scale to Silver Chariot for him to control it in the first place
Problem 2: Anti-Feats
Silver Chariot being MFTL also makes the scenario where he fights the Sun pretty much an illogical fight because that Stand, which is accepted to have lightspeed attacks because of the numerous statements of it using light in general, makes SC struggle to even react, even when the former Stand was firing from a distance further than 100 metres away. Someone with MFTL reactions would easily outpace the Sun's beams here with short movements yet the Sun is clearly going relative to his reaction speed.
Another problem I've seen with this chain scaling is the assumption that Alternate Diego's stand THE WORLD has the same stats as Dio's THE WORLD because they simply look the same and act the same. This is just a clearcut association fallacy where it cherry picks traits to get granted the scaling here because we forget that in Part 7, bullet feats are literally seen as top tier. We know this is the case because:
- Johnny, Diego, Funny Valentine and many others struggle against bullet feats all the time
- Which is relevant because The World was getting tagged by Johnny's nails, the same nails that went relative to bullets here.
- D4C's combat speed got outpaced by a horse
- There are no SOL feats in Steel Ball Run whatsoever, the scaling solely depends on extrapolating from old timeline stuff, so it's not even narratively consistent
So are we gonna say the bullets (and also horses) are MFTL now? Brother please
, just because the stands act and look the same, that doesn't mean the stats are the same; this is literally a trope in Part 3 where Star Platinum, which has the same stand as DIO, had differing stats from DIO's Stand
My Gallery — Postimages
Problem 3: Anime Usage
The calculation uses the anime to justify the distances that both entities move, but the issue is that the anime itself isn't even accepted to be canon to the main series. From that standard alone, the calc shouldn't even be used.
Problem 4: Calculation Assumptions
The calculation itself pretty much assumes that Silver Chariot did all of that distance when the light moved a miniscule one, which is a very extraordinary assumption. While yes, in the anime those distances were what was happening in the feat, that's not necessarily what happened in the manga because all we see is Silver Chariot react to Kakyoin scream "NOW" and then we see SC appear; there is nothing that speaks against the conservative interpretation that Silver Chariot moved as the light started to move in the manga or even before that. Unless Kakyoin screams "now" at speeds massively faster than light of course
Furthermore, the anime version of the scene blatantly contradicts established statements and feats in the manga itself, which I established in the other sections above.
Problem 5: Outlier
Even without all of the problems in general, the feat is not even close to being consistent in the first place because this is the only feat in the verse that gets this high in speed. The only other feat in the verse that's even close would be Kars' blocking Ultraviolet light (which is around 5.6x slower than SC's feat), which not only is wrong because not only is that not how ang sizing works, the feat blatantly contradicts the point blank feat standards that we have on here which say this:
And if Kars was actually 40 times the speed of light, he wouldn't even get tagged or hurt by the UV light in the first place, bro woulda outpaced it super easily.
I am also aware that Kars was off-guarded by Stroheim here, but that doesn't handwave the fact that a 40x disparity in speed wouldn't allow an off-guard to even happen in the first place unless explicitly stated.
EDIT: Some new info was brought to my attention that Kars can actually sense heat to a super precise degree, which means it was extremely likely that he was aim dodging that feat too because UV lights emit heat.
My Gallery — Postimages
Kars also has the plane anti-feat, but it's not that important to adress as that's pretty much just PIS, honestly.
Solution
1. Remove both feats. Silver Chariot is narratively intended to aim dodge the feat here and according to the aim dodging standards, that doesn't fly here. Kars' feat is a point blank feat that makes no sense here either.
2. Re-scale everyone in the original JoJos to Joseph and Ceasar's feat which is at 0.82c. Or nuke that too, it's also problematic but it's not contradictory at least.
3. Nerf everyone in the new timeline to like Subsonic or something. These bullet and horse speed timers are not even close to lightspeed, let alone MFTL bro.
4. Nerf Jotaro and DIO to merely FTL because of Jotaro and Star Platinum's statements of them being FTL. As well as Kars being Speed of Light cuz of his own feat of reacting to UV light
5. Pucci's scaling is fine btw, no one scales to him regardless, although he does have an anti feat of getting hit by an MFTL spear lol
Staff Votes
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
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