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This is not true. Sorcerers who control cursed energy are impossible to create curses
This is literally Geto's cause in killing any "monkey".
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Jujutsu Kaisen Hax & Addition Thread
- Thread starter Arkenis
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This is literally Geto's cause in killing any "monkey".
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That was in reference to sorcs not passively emitting cursed energy that can pool into curses. It's been established a vengeful sorcerer will come back as a cursed spirit. We see this happen real time with Nanami.
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Rereading the chapter it makes sense
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This cannot be considered immortality however. Since it is not the sorcerers themselves that are becoming a curse
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It would be. It'd be similar to what happened with Rika except self-inflicted. And that was stated to be her soul that got cursed.
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I mean, contextually that is wrong. If every sorcerers could become a curse with a conscience it would at least be established more strictly. It is not life itself that becomes a curse
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It is. It's specifically a thing among sorcerers to not die with regrets lest they come back as vengeful spirits.
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These "vengeful spirits" are not the life of the sorcerers, it is another being. Every curse is created by human thought, but none of these curses are directly from human life
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No that's incorrect. See Rika for an example of this as I pointed out.
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Rika is someone who has been cursed by Yuta. Yuta wanted her herself to be with him
Her life became a curse, but there is no proof that in every case this will happen. So much so that most curses are created by several people, which does not mean that the curse is the reincarnation of these several people
Her life became a curse, but there is no proof that in every case this will happen. So much so that most curses are created by several people, which does not mean that the curse is the reincarnation of these several people
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The best-case example we have for a person's life being cursed is Rika. There is no reason to suggest the curse would be different for other jujutsu sorcerers given it's a universal rule for sorcerors to follow and the fact that Rika is a "Vengeful Cursed Spirit" which is the same type of cursed spirit created by a regretful sorcerer.
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Rika is a different case because she was cursed to live eternally, so life and soul existed there, but I don't believe that is applicable to every case. We all know that the basic concept of a curse is negativity, not life. Rika was someone cursed to live by Yuta's negativity, not by herself. If someone curses you may end up "reviving" as a curse, but on your own I don't see how that can happen since this was never contextualized
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So whats the evidence for Conceptual Manipulation, and as Staff I have to state that, regardless of who it is and what's said, we do not use opinions and answers given by users that are not on the site. So no going Ultima said this in Discord or DMs or or whatever, if its not public avaliable in a Wiki Forum thread it doesn't matter.
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Ultima commented here though
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She was not a different case and that point was never made. She was cursed by Yuta and her soul directly manifested as a Vengeful Curse spirit. The same thing is said about sorcerers who die with regret and some being famous for this.
Negativity clearly creates all the time. That's literally the whole idea behind curses. So yes, Negativity can grant "life" to a dying shaman by incarnating their souls as Vengeful cursed spirits. It was contextualized, there is literally a universal rule to sorcerers to prevent this process from happening.
Don't get me wrong, it's clearly not going to be like them just becoming revived. They would just leave behind their vengeful spirit in whatever form that would manifest as. Similar to Rika, but we directly were told her soul did get cursed and she stated that "she enjoyed the past 6 years" with Yuta so her soul was indeed present throughout. I also don't think it is particularly something that can be done actively, it all depends on the mindset and time to dwell upon death. We see that Yuta created her by having intense emotional thoughts about seeing her death which manifested her. So this "immortality" wouldn't really be something one could actively use, and they wouldn't really be coming back as "themselves".
Humans collectively birth curses via shared awareness of "images" "emotions", "concepts" and "thoughts" they are about phenomena. This encompasses things like insect plagues, natural disasters, and even man-made fiction or folklore. The mechanism for this process is cursed energy. Which is used by the shamans to create their techniques, manifest and expand innate domains (barrierless manifestations being called "true sorcery"), and is pretty much is responsible for all superhuman feats and abilities outside of some rare cases. Gojo, someone who could already "bring infinity into reality" [2], discussed learning the core of cursed energy on his deathbed, and states his brain was needed to learn how to construct his "imaginary technique".
A long-running background question of the series was the ontology of the soul and body, and which is a priori. Originally we were lead to believe it was the soul from Mahito, a cursed spirit embodying human hatred but this was challenged by experimentation. We found out later in the manga that information is fundamental to both spirit and matter and gives things their essences in the verse. Ogami, a shaman in the manga, was able to summon the physical information of a character into another human and have them take said person's "form" while keeping his "spiritual information" separate so as to not bring back the "soul" or "personality" of the person she was summoning. However, Toji (the person whose body she summoned) was able to dominate the soul of the person trying to utilize his body with just his physical information, aka retaining his self-concept or personality. Indicating that information is what actually grants "essence" (hence why Toji could manifest his personality from solely his body info) on a level more fundamental than mental, spiritual, or physical levels. Which has also been highlighted in other spots in the manga.
Thusly, this information (and by extension cursed energy which is directly tied to it and can interact with it) is responsible for the curses being manifested, even by humans who can't actively use or are aware of their cursed energy. So I made the thread to get clarification on the boundary between something like this and concept manip since our info pages don't really cover this, and Yuri said it should count for type 3.
As for the second part of your post, I did talk to Ultima on Discord, but I also invited him to post in the thread so that others could see his opinion which he did.
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Very busy this week. I won't be able to help much until Friday. However, the sandbox can be edited by any user
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Since they're not coming back to life but reemerging as cursed spirits I don't think that would qualify. Especially since I think we have a few actual sorcerer's that were resurrected in the series, but this was through some deals with Kenjaku and not through their own means.
I don't think Curtain's manipulate space, that's more a feature of domains. Probably better to just have it down as Forcefield Creation, though limited law manipulation can stick.
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does RCT count? since they can use it when their brains are already unfunctional
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Gojo is the only instance of this in the series, so if anyone got it it would be him. However, I wouldn't give it to him because it isn't automatic, it's more something he has to do right before he dies.
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Don't really see anything that indicates pain manipulation, or corruption. Curse Manipulation is fine with that, but Disease Manipulation is a no go since its not really a disease, it's a curse.
And I'm not sure if the people should be considered automatically cursed. We don't really have too many examples in the series of non-sorcerer's surviving cursed energy, but Maki doesn't seem to have this problem when she battles with Dagon or Hananami from the hits they landed on her. I think what we see with that cursed spirit in the Volume 0 is more due to continued exposure to cursed energy.
And I'm not sure if the people should be considered automatically cursed. We don't really have too many examples in the series of non-sorcerer's surviving cursed energy, but Maki doesn't seem to have this problem when she battles with Dagon or Hananami from the hits they landed on her. I think what we see with that cursed spirit in the Volume 0 is more due to continued exposure to cursed energy.
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Maki was suffering effects from a small scratch as soon as she entered.
Stronger pt .2 Maki was specifically stated to only have survived due to her physical toughness from the vow and again noted to have zero curse resistance from the narrator.
Corruption is fine, I disagree with disease manip and pain manip. I don’t recall seeing those powers for curses.
Stronger pt .2 Maki was specifically stated to only have survived due to her physical toughness from the vow and again noted to have zero curse resistance from the narrator.
Corruption is fine, I disagree with disease manip and pain manip. I don’t recall seeing those powers for curses.
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I thought disease manipulation because it really seemed like some kind of high fever
But Pain Manipulation is fine. Maki is lying on the ground in the anguish of pain
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Yeah but that's a direct effect from the consequence of the corruption. It's be like giving someone pain manip for them being able to inject others with deadly diseases.
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Lying on the ground in pain doesn't mean pain manipulation on its own. It could also be due to the damage being suffered. And she survived Jogo's near fatal attacks thanks to her stamina. And that wouldn't stop her from getting cursed as she herself states she has no tolerance for it. I think it would make more sense to assume that was happening with Maki and the kid is either unique to this cursed spirit's usage of cursed energy or the result of being inside of the cursed spirit after being wounded. Afterwards, when battling with even stronger cursed spirits and getting wounded Maki doesn't seem to suffer the effects of a curse.
And I don't agree with corruption because the curse isn't changing them, they die once its done its course.
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It was a universal thing as it promoted the scan talking about curse resistance as a concept and yuta just asks of she was cursed. Based on feats it seems that direct contact with the bloodstream and being inside a cursed spirit both elicit this effect.
Also it was clearly transforming the physiology of the elder kid and maki. Them dying before a full transformation shouldn't really disbar it from being corruption type 1.
Also it was clearly transforming the physiology of the elder kid and maki. Them dying before a full transformation shouldn't really disbar it from being corruption type 1.
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Should Gojo gain Information Analysis with his Six Eyes?
He was able to discover the exact Cursed Technique an opponent possesses due to the perception of his Six Eyes if I recall correctly.
He was able to discover the exact Cursed Technique an opponent possesses due to the perception of his Six Eyes if I recall correctly.
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Yes
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Im pretty sure HR works differently from just amping the body. Toji cant get drunk and has sharpened 5 senses, Maki has heat resistance etc.
So her having some resistance to curses isnt that far fetched.
After all Toji is stated to have curse resistance (assuming this translation is correct)
He also has a cursed spirit in his stomach so...
So her having some resistance to curses isnt that far fetched.
After all Toji is stated to have curse resistance (assuming this translation is correct)
He also has a cursed spirit in his stomach so...
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The fact that zenin boy’s body was breaking down from choso’s cursed blood is also supplementary evidence.
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Yeah if I remember correctly it was because Naoyas body rejected his blood (because he was a Death painting).
Its also stated to be poisonous right ?
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It is actually said not to be poison
This is more biological than cursed
This is more biological than cursed
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It wasn’t poisonous, his cursed blood caused his body to reject it, and fight it off as if it were an infection or disease.
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I mean, I interpreted it to be more like a chain reaction in biological terms. I don't see why this would help with the Corruption justification, since sorcerers have resistance to this naturally, but in the case of the blood Naoya was completely affected
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It's pretty clearly just his body rejecting the foreign blood. Resistance doesn't = immunity. And mixing blood is much more intimate a thing than just getting slashed by a curse (referencing Maki) so it stands to reason it be much more potent.
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I agree that what we're seeing is them being cursed but I don't think we should consider cursed energy to automatically curse those that run into contact with it. It'd be better to just attribute this to some unnamed cursed technique possessed by that cursed spirit than say that all cursed energy does that. Because, Maki fought cursed spirits much stronger than that one, and when they damaged her she just got regularly hurt, nothing about getting cursed.
And I can't really say it was clearly transforming their biology. Black stuff spreading up Maki's leg and the kid's eye blackening isn't enough to just call it corruption without something more being said or occurring. Sure the kid's eye is looking weird but it's called a curse and its said to kill them. We have nothing that says they're being changed to something else, only something that says they're cursed. It would make more sense to just call it a curse and leave it at that, something we should already attribute to cursed spirits and users.
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I think it's less about coming into contact with it vs prolonged exposure/direct exposure into the body itself. I mean human bodies do produce cursed energy. But clearly, foreign curse energy mixing with the body is not good for humans who lack control of their flow.
Yuta recognized the effect on Maki and simply attributed it to her being cursed, the same as the kid highlighting the fact that Maki was fighting with sorcerers despite being as exposed as regular humans. It being an unnamed specific technique that would need evidence in of itself, and the scene seems to point to the opposite.
Yeah but to my knowledge, I don't recall her getting directly pierced, and her surviving Jogo's burns was accredited to her stamina.
I don't see why this would be the case. Maki's leg was producing foreign cells where the cut was, and the kid's whole physiology in his eyes changed. That isn't possible without altering the person. There is also the fact that whatever effect the curse energy was having on the body was very quickly breaking down the body and leading to death. I don't really see another power that describes it as well given we had the start of a change, interrupted by death due to the process itself.
I mean we'll have to disagree. The fact that the concept of "resistance to curses" exists implies that curses will have a negative effect on humans who don't. We saw this effect and it clearly "cursed" maki and the kids which lead to biological effects leading to death. If we want to lump all of those effects into curse manipulation we can, so long as it's specific to the existent which it affects those without it.
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The fact that the other cursed spirits, all special grade for that matter, we saw that hit Maki had no effect like this I think is proof enough that this isn't just something that all curses do passively. Even when Itadori's friends were hurt by those cursed spirits they never showed any effects that suggest corruption. They were just physically hurt. All other evidence points to this being a unique effect of this cursed spirit.
Hanami stabbed her through the shoulder while Dagon tore straight through her side. Never shows any sign of this stuff. or it being a problem for her.
We don't know what that stuff growing up her leg was. It could've been similar to what happened when Itadori and Nobara fought with the Blood brothers. Those weren't cells, what covered them was just the sign of their bodies being cursed. We don't need to describe this as any other power, its just the effect of the curse being placed upon them. No need to make it anything extra.
I agree wholeheartedly that its curse manipulation, but I don't agree with adding something like corruption to it. Most curses that we see from cursed spirits just cause their victims to die in different ways. All of it ties back to a curse. And I would also like to say we don't know exactly how the curses are killing them, they're just dying. We can't really extrapolate too much from it
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Yeah but I am not arguing that making contact with someone is going to cause said effects.
Hmm that's fair.
Scans? I don't recall that scene and would like to look at it if you have them.
Eh at this point I can agree it's ambiguous enough to be dropped.
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