Kaido gets Hunted

[ThatDarnFish]

The Hunter is tasked with going to Onigashima to confront a dangerous monster that could be an Elder Dragon that has been terrorising a country for 20 years.
Kaido catches word that a weirdly dressed bounty hunter has come looking for a "blue dragon" that needs dealing with, and confronts The Hunter in Dragon Form.

In character
Speed =
Both are 6-B
The Hunter knows the basics about Kaido
Kaido starts in Dragon but can change as needed
Hunter is fully armed/geared up and is starting with Longsword
Who wins?

The Monster Bounty Hunter:2(Zeifyl/noninho)

Elder Dragon Kaido:

Incon:

 

[noninho]

The Hunter is tasked with going to Onigashima to confront a dangerous monster that could be an Elder Dragon that has been terrorising a country for 20 years.
Kaido catches word that a weirdly dressed bounty hunter has come looking for a "blue dragon" that needs dealing with, and confronts The Hunter in Dragon Form.

In character
Speed =
Both are 6-B
The Hunter knows the basics about Kaido
Kaido starts in Dragon but can change as needed
Hunter is fully armed/geared up and is starting with Longsword
Who wins?

The Monster Bounty Hunter:

Elder Dragon Kaido:

Incon:

What itens does MH have in the inventory?

 

[noninho]

from what i got, Dragon Kaido and MH have = speed and AP (since you've limited both of them on that exact level).
Kaido would try Boro Breath, if it doesn't kill MH after some tries, he change to Hybrid form, which is faster and stronger than Dragon form (like every Zoan user).
Then if MH doesn't get blitzed by Kaido's move speed, would probably be in attack speed and outskilled (remember Kenbunshoku, Busoushoku and Haoshoku exist and this dragon-guy has all of them advanced) in short time. Oh, if he doesn't get access to Hybrid Form, how's MH dealing with the limited Danmaku?

voting Kaido, low-diff.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

One for Kaidough

 

[Zeifyl]

from what i got, Dragon Kaido and MH have = speed and AP (since you've limited both of them on that exact level).
Kaido would try Boro Breath, if it doesn't kill MH after some tries, he change to Hybrid form, which is faster and stronger than Dragon form (like every Zoan user).
Then if MH doesn't get blitzed by Kaido's move speed, would probably be in attack speed and outskilled (remember Kenbunshoku, Busoushoku and Haoshoku exist and this dragon-guy has all of them advanced) in short time. Oh, if he doesn't get access to Hybrid Form, how's MH dealing with the limited Danmaku?

voting Kaido, low-diff.

Please, explain to me how this is different from any other Tuesday for the Hunter? Kenbunshoku is the only Haki type that'd be relatively bothersome. And faster? Stronger? More skilled? The Hunter beats faster, stronger opponents that have centuries, and sometimes millenia of experience, daily. Kaido is nothing out of the ordinary, beyond his ability to have a conversation with The Hunter.

Voting Hunter high-diff.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

One for the Homnter

 

[noninho]

Please, explain to me how this is different from any other Tuesday for the Hunter? Kenbunshoku is the only Haki type that'd be relatively bothersome. And faster? Stronger? More skilled? The Hunter beats faster, stronger opponents that have centuries, and sometimes millenia of experience, daily. Kaido is nothing out of the ordinary, beyond his ability to have a conversation with The Hunter.

Voting Hunter high-diff.

being able to deal with high-skilled opponents =/= being outskilled

Kaido being able to change for his Hybrid Form makes MH's life really difficult since all hakis can be combined to make every Kaido move stronger, stats get amped by a ton and precog. How would MH's attacks bypass seeing in the future+hardened skin?
Also, starting equip being a longsword makes harder to hit the limited danmaku-firing,big af dragon in the air...

 

[Zeifyl]

being able to deal with high-skilled opponents =/= being outskilled

Kaido being able to change for his Hybrid Form makes MH's life really difficult since all hakis can be combined to make every Kaido move stronger, stats get amped by a ton and precog. How would MH's attacks bypass seeing in the future+hardened skin?
Also, starting equip being a longsword makes harder to hit the limited danmaku-firing,big af dragon in the air...

Then, let me ask a different question... How exactly does Kaido outskill? He is very skilled, sure, but so is the Hunter. Kaido has gotten complacant in his position, having gotten too used to being essentially invulnerable. Meanwhile, Hunter fights monsters at Kaido's level often, keeping his abilities and technique sharp. If anything, Hunter outskills. Danmaku isn't as big a deal as you seem to want to make it. Tier 6 Hunter has fought Kirin, who uses danmaku. Teostra and Lunastra can dish out similar firepower as Kaido. Hardened skin can be beaten with tenderizing attacks, as shown against Safi'Jiiva. Future sight and flight are the only issues here. And since Hunter can deal with opponents many times his own speed like Valstrax and

Spoiler: Sunbreak Spoiler

Malzeno's dash and teleportation

, and observation Haki, even at the advanced level can be overcome with sheer speed, I see no reason he shouldn't be able to tag Kaido as well.

EDIT: Also, while Hunter starts with Longsword, he can always switch to Insect Glaive, Bow, or Bowgun, or use Clutch Claw or Wirebugs to catch a flying dragon.

 

[noninho]

Kaido has gotten complacant in his position, having gotten too used to being essentially invulnerable.

Oh yeah, that reminds me: Despite you being right on that...how can he deal with immortality?

Meanwhile, Hunter fights monsters at Kaido's level often, keeping his abilities and technique sharp. If anything, Hunter outskills.

hm...ok, i concede this point, then.

Hardened skin can be beaten with tenderizing attacks, as shown against Safi'Jiiva

How does this monster's skin compare to 6-B+Hybrid Form amps+Busoushoku?

And since Hunter can deal with opponents many times his own speed

Same as above's argument, only change "skin" with "speed".

and observation Haki, even at the advanced level can be overcome with sheer speed, I see no reason he shouldn't be able to tag Kaido as well.

How does his speed get amped to equalize or surpass Hybrid form's?

EDIT: Also, while Hunter starts with Longsword, he can always switch to Insect Glaive, Bow, or Bowgun, or use Clutch Claw or Wirebugs to catch a flying dragon.

i've asked what itens are in MH's inventory, and the author haven't answered me... How those itens work against a dragon who can see in the future, if they can be used?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

i've asked what itens are in MH's inventory, and the author haven't answered me

Poison that tires Monsters in a matter of minutes

500 types of traps

Potions, a lot of potions

Meat/energy drinks that amp his stamina

Drinks that let´s him survive in a volcano or the contrary, in a frost tundra

Sleep bombs, 500 types of ammo

And to be realistic, if Hunter has prep, he would go full armor with resistance to fire and probably blunt attacks and Kaido would be extremely nerfed in the AP deparment just for that

Also, this match would be outdated when OP gets upgraded to 6-A

Edit: And Hunter has mantles that let him dodge without him thinking or mantles that tanks 6-B+ attacks without him flinching at all, etc etc

 

[Zeifyl]

Oh yeah, that reminds me: Despite you being right on that...how can he deal with immortality?

Spoiler: One Piece Manga spoilers

98% sure Kaido's dead, actually. No immortality. Just too sturdy for much in One Piece to harm him.

How does this monster's skin compare to 6-B+Hybrid Form amps+Busoushoku?

Considering Safi'Jiiva massively upscales from a High 6-A... Quite well. Though, to be fair, Safi has only been fought by the Tier 5 Hunter. It was more of a "Hunter can soften hardened skin" thing. Additionally, Hunter can use Honed Blade, which is basically Armament Haki.

Same as above's argument, only change "skin" with "speed".

Kaido is FTL. Valstrax is FTL+. Valstrax is faster, and actually has been fought by Tier 6 Hunter.

How does his speed get amped to equalize or surpass Hybrid form's?

Considering that he, as a MHS+ can tag a FTL+ consistently, he can definitely tag a FTL with less than 5 seconds of precog, speed equal, especially with his skill advantage.

i've asked what itens are in MH's inventory, and the author haven't answered me... How those itens work against a dragon who can see in the future, if they can be used?

Giving him ranged attacks, pseudo-flight, or both, mostly. These things are for countering the Flight, not the Precog. If he wants a speed amp, he got Mantles for that.

Honestly, this thread has made me realise that Hunter has counters for everything in Kaido's arsenal.

 

[noninho]

Poison that tires Monsters in a matter of minutes

500 types of traps

Potions, a lot of potions

Meat/energy drinks that amp his stamina

Drinks that let´s him survive in a volcano or the contrary, in a frost tundra

Sleep bombs, 500 types of ammo

And to be realistic, if Hunter has prep, he would go full armor with resistance to fire and probably blunt attacks and Kaido would be extremely nerfed in the AP deparment just for that

Also, this match would be outdated when OP gets upgraded to 6-A

Edit: And Hunter has mantles that let him dodge without him thinking or mantles that tanks 6-B+ attacks without him flinching at all, etc etc

how many minutes? what are those traps and how would he set them with Kaido looking at him (you didn't say he has prep, just armor)? what are the poisons' effects? how strong are those sleep bombs and how many of them? what are the weapons that use those ammo? how many ammo of all that types?

he has no prep, you haven't put it.

maybe, but since he can deal with stronger than 6-a enemies and Kaido would also be amped by the usage of hybrid form, i don't think so

"etc etc" meaning he can dodge more efficiently? he has more dodging itens?

you really should have a time to say what equips he has access or just say he has access to all of them (but i think it woundn't be possible since the inventory have a limit, i suppose)

 

[noninho]

Spoiler: op spoiler

98% sure Kaido's dead, actually. No immortality. Just too sturdy for much in One Piece to harm him.

While you can't prove that, it's stated that he's invincible even when he was trying to die, so you can't go against it.

Considering Safi'Jiiva massively upscales from a High 6-A... Quite well. Though, to be fair, Safi has only been fought by the Tier 5 Hunter. It was more of a "Hunter can soften hardened skin" thing. Additionally, Hunter can use Honed Blade, which is basically Armament Haki.

Scan for those two, please? also, we can't say for sure how much the amp goes, since "higher+far higher" means way more than "max 6-B", and i really think he goes on a level above 6-A...

Considering that he, as a MHS+ can tag a FTL+ consistently, he can definitely tag a FTL with less than 5 seconds of precog, speed equal, especially with his skill advantage.

oh, didn't know he has precog. noted.

Giving him ranged attacks, pseudo-flight, or both, mostly. These things are for countering the Flight, not the Precog. If he wants a speed amp, he got Mantles for that.

are those itens included on the confusing item list the author of the post put here?

 

[Zeifyl]

While you can't prove that, it's stated that he's invincible even when he was trying to die, so you can't go against it.

Fair enough.

Scan for those two, please? also, we can't say for sure how much the amp goes, since "higher+far higher" means way more than "max 6-B", and i really think he goes on a level above 6-A...

It's simultaneously gonna be very easy and very hard to provide scans for the former, as it is used in pretty much every hunt in World, but the scan is pretty much purely auditory. But here's the description for Honed Blade. (NOTE: Sharpness is, what in Monster Hunter is most often used to bypass dura). Also, that's not what it means. It just means "Higher into 6-B" or "Far higher into 6-B", if no other tier is mentioned.

oh, didn't know he has precog. noted.

He doesn't. Kaido does. 5 seconds = Katakuri (Best Observation Haki in the series) > Kaido. And since Hunter can tag, and dodge attacks from, something at least 4500 times faster than himself (a speed gap MUCH greater than what it takes to overcome Observation haki, mind), I see no reason he wouldn't be able to tag Kaido, speed equal. If he can tag Valstrax, Kaido should be no issue at all. Especially if he switches to, say, Dual Blades (Dual Blades, especially in Demon Mode, is a HUGE amp to attack speed). And if Hunter needs a speed amp, again, some mantles can do that.

are those itens included on the confusing item list the author of the post put here?

Everything the Hunter can have is included in "Fully armed/geared up". Also, since Hunter has basic knowledge on Kaido, you can assume he is wearing equipment that resists Kaido's attacks, negating any AP advantage (within reason) Kaido may have. Not to mention the Hunter comes with 10 Potions, 10 Megapotions, 2 Max Potions, and an Ancientpotion, and the ingredients to make more during the fight, providing plenty of healing opportunities, as well as Mega Demondrug/Mega Armorskin and other AP/Dura boosting items.

Sure, Kaido can outstat the Hunter, but the Hunter's entire job is to kill opponents with higher stats than himself.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Hunter is fully armed/geared up

he has no prep, you haven't put it.

First: I am not the owner of this thread

Second: I thought that "fully armed/geared up" was prep because being fully armed against a Monster in MH means countering everything

Like, fully armed against a Diablos= having sonic capsules to stun him and electric traps to gets free hits and a weapon that exploits his elemental weakness, things like that

 

[noninho]

It's simultaneously gonna be very easy and very hard to provide scans for the former, as it is used in pretty much every hunt in World, but the scan is pretty much purely auditory. But here's the description for Honed Blade. (NOTE: Sharpness is, what in Monster Hunter is most often used to bypass dura). Also, that's not what it means. It just means "Higher into 6-B" or "Far higher into 6-B", if no other tier is mentioned.

hm...ok, fair enough.

He doesn't. Kaido does.

oh, i got it wrong, my bad.

I see no reason he wouldn't be able to tag Kaido, speed equal.

Kaido has speed advantage when changing to hybrid form

Everything the Hunter can have is included in "Fully armed/geared up".

there's no limit on the MH's inventory size? :V

Not to mention the Hunter comes with 10 Potions, 10 Megapotions, 2 Max Potions, and an Ancientpotion, and the ingredients to make more during the fight, providing plenty of healing opportunities, as well as Mega Demondrug/Mega Armorskin and other AP/Dura boosting items.

where did you get those statistics?

Like, fully armed against a Diablos= having sonic capsules to stun him and electric traps to gets free hits and a weapon that exploits his elemental weakness, things like that

yeah, it sounds fair enough when MH also has prior knowledge.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Sorry. Been busy and distracted. Being fully geared means that he's effectively prepped rather than just going with the basics. Hunter also has the option of swapping weapons as they see fit, they're just starting with Longsword.

 

[noninho]

yeah, then he has a huge advantage
changing vote for MH lol

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Always figured any Hunter battle assumes the Hunter is going in fully stocked. The same way Pokémon have all their abilities from all games, not just the single ability they usually have from the main game. Though the idea of specifying what gear a hunter has exactly for a particular hunt is interesting, it's a lot more work

 

[Eminiteable]

Kaidou is no longer going to be 6-B, his tier is changing to 6-A.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Kaidou is no longer going to be 6-B, his tier is changing to 6-A.

Maaan. I can never keep track of what verses are getting buffed or nerfed. Did they accept the 6-A already, or is it in progress?

 

[Eminiteable]

Maaan. I can never keep track of what verses are getting buffed or nerfed. Did they accept the 6-A already, or is it in progress?

It's being applied now

 

[ThatDarnFish]

It's being applied now

Well 1) forget this matchup.

2) Yeeeah booooi 6-A Koifish

 

[noninho]

with those equips MH can still beat him lul

Well 1) forget this matchup.

2) Yeeeah booooi 6-A Koifish

 

[ThatDarnFish]

with those equips MH can still beat him lul

But then the question is "Can the Hunter incap Kaido before getting smeared" And the chances are slim on that front. I guess the Hunter will have to wait in High 6-A for Kaido to get up to that point

 

[noninho]

But then the question is "Can the Hunter incap Kaido before getting smeared" And the chances are slim on that front. I guess the Hunter will have to wait in High 6-A for Kaido to get up to that point

all the sudden his equips and prior knowledge are nothing?
one tier lower and he would smash kaido's ass...goes up 1 tier and now he sh*ts his pants?

 

[ThatDarnFish]

all the sudden his equips and prior knowledge are nothing?
one tier lower and he would smash kaido's ass...goes up 1 tier and now he sh*ts his pants?

Pretty much. A whole tier between characters typically makes it a stomp in the higher tier's favor due to overwhelming power difference. There are cases where the lower Tier can pull a win, but that's usually if they have a very potent ability that the higher tier doesn't resist, and they can pull it off faster than the higher tier can react. Like thought-based abilities

 

[noninho]

Pretty much. A whole tier between characters typically makes it a stomp in the higher tier's favor due to overwhelming power difference. There are cases where the lower Tier can pull a win, but that's usually if they have a very potent ability that the higher tier doesn't resist, and they can pull it off faster than the higher tier can react. Like thought-based abilities

ahm...no, still can't believe it.
if MH could easily get to deal with 6-B and 6-B+ (hybrid form) while being 6-B with his itens
how can't he do anything now with 6-A?????

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

being 6-B

Hunter is also 6-B+

And wait, I will see the AP difference

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Hunter: 70.6 Teratons

Kaido: 284 Petatons

Hunter would need to play perfectly and use all his durability negation attacks, tricks, etc to harm Kaido

Meanwhile, Kaido taps once and wins,

 

[Zeifyl]

ahm...no, still can't believe it.
if MH could easily get to deal with 6-B and 6-B+ (hybrid form) while being 6-B with his itens
how can't he do anything now with 6-A?????

Hunter can deal with thousands of times faster opponents. Not thousands of times stronger. Before, the difference in stats was at most 3x, and thus, well within what The Hunter can handle. Kaido AP-stomps.