Kami-sama's Shenlong, Babidi and Mūri's Porunga

[Somelatinguy]

This is an attempt to achieve the edition of the profiles of three characters of the verse.

KAMI-SAMA'S SHENLONG
Magic/Reality Warping Power: At least Moon level via Wish Granting in its Restoration form (Regardless of whether he or Kami-sama restores the moon, both are the same level as he states he can't grant a wish that exceeds his creator's power (not one that matches it) yet he's more skilled).
Attack Potency & Striking Strength: City Class (Equal to Kami-sama and mightier than Piccolo Daimaō, whose Explosive Demon Wave barely destroys a city (*)).
Lifting Strength: Class K (Equal to Kami-sama, who is stronger than Gokū in the Piccolo Daimaō Saga).
Speed: Relativistic (Equal to Kami-sama).
Durability: City level (Is killed by a blast from Piccolo Daimaō that hits him off-guard as it's fired outside a battle and at point-blank range).
Stamina: High.
Range: At least Interstellar via Wish Granting in its Resurrection form.
(*) Muten Rōshi destroys the moon in his Max Power form, which he can’t use in a battle prior to Super as he can’t control it yet and loses speed and stamina with it.

BABIDI
Magic/Reality Warping Power: At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion).
Attack Potency & Striking Strength: At most Wall Class (Is stated to need to manipulate others because of being weak by Kaiōshin, which includes Supopobitchi and Yamū).
Lifting Strength: At most Class 5 (Weaker than Supopobitchi and Yamū).
Speed: At most Subsonic (Slower than Supopobitchi and Yamū).
Durability: At most Wall level.
Stamina: Fairly high (Can survive for a long while after losing half of his body and even use his Wizard Barrier).
Range: At least Interstellar via Teleportation.

MŪRI'S PORUNGA
Magic/Reality Warping Power: At least Planet level via Wish Granting in its Restoration form (Restores Earth).
Attack Potency & Striking Strength: At most Small Planet Class (Equal to Mūri, who must be comparable to Nappa).
Lifting Strength: At least Class M (Stronger than Kami-sama’s Shenlong).
Speed: At most Relativistic+ (Equal to Mūri).
Durability: At most Small Planet level.
Stamina: Very high.
Range: At least Interstellar via Wish Granting in its Restoration form.

As said almost a year ago, this should help understand other aspects in fiction better.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Bump

 

[Somelatinguy]

Bump

 

[Somelatinguy]

Bump

 

[Somelatinguy]

Half a week and zero objections... Does everybody think these points are accurate?

 

[Planck69]

Nobody bothering to answer doesn't mean that they agree. I'm pretty sure you're well aware of how little regard people put your arguments in after the repeated Nintendo threads. Just wait until someone answers before coming to any conclusions.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

SHENLONG
Attack Potency: At least Moon level via Wish Granting in its Restoration form and possibly others (Either he or Kami-sama restores the moon), but City level via Wish Granting in its Ki Manipulation form (Comparable to Kami-sama and mightier than Piccolo Daimaō, whose Explosive Demon Wave barely destroys a city(*)).
Speed: Relativistic (Comparable to Kami-sama).
Lifting Strength: Class K (Comparable to Kami-sama, who is stronger than Gokū in the Piccolo Daimaō Saga).
Striking Strength: City Class.
Durability: City level (Is killed by Piccolo Daimaō while lowering his guard).
Stamina: High.
Range: At least Interstellar via Wish Granting in its Resurrection form and possibly others.

(*) Muten Rōshi destroys the moon in his Max Power form, which he can’t use in a battle prior to Super as he can’t control it yet and loses speed and stamina with it.

The reason King Piccolo is 5-C is because Roshi believed there was nothing anybody could do against him, which would include the likes of his MAX Power Mode. It makes sense for Roshi to make such a claim and exclude his most powerful ability. There's also scaling from the previous Budokai.

I don't know why we assume Shenron has Ki Manipulation, let alone destructive capacity through it—Never has Shenron granted a wish that involved Ki Manipulation, if I recall correctly. Also, why would be "mightier than King Piccolo" if King Piccolo casually one-shot him after regaining his youth.

Shenron isn't comparable to Kami. Part of Kami's justification states that Shenron is inferior to him due to being his creation.

He already has 5-C AP for restoring the moon, although it should probably be changed to something like "Moon level via various wishes (Recreated the moon. Restored King Piccolo to his former prime)" or just removed entirely since:

1. It is Reality Warping and non-combat applicable Reality Warping at that.
2. Shenron never explicitly restored the moon.

As for everything else, Shenron is better off with his Unknown ratings, since he isn't a combat character, although you could probably give him a Lifting Strength based on his weight, since he is a massive dragon.

Also, Planet Namek is in a star system on the opposite side of the universe from Earth, so his Interstellar range would be upgraded to Intergalactic for resurrecting everyone who Frieza killed on Namek. Besides that, he has several global-scale feats in the Buu Saga.

BABIDI
Attack Potency: At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation and possibly other magic abilities (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion), but at most Wall level via Ki Manipulation (Is stated to need to manipulate others because of being weak by Kaiōshin, which includes Supopobitchi and Yamū).

Babidi's Manipulation Sorcery is explicitly a magical ability.
Anyway, there is nothing to support the idea that his other abilities are 4-B, so that part of his tier should be removed, and his force-field should be moved from Attack Potency to Durability exclusive, leaving him with Unknown AP since, as the Supreme Kai stated, he has literally no destructive capabilities. All of that other stats are fine where they are, too.

 

[Somelatinguy]

The reason King Piccolo is 5-C is because Roshi believed there was nothing anybody could do against him, which would include the likes of his MAX Power Mode. It makes sense for Roshi to make such a claim and exclude his most powerful ability. There's also scaling from the previous Budokai.

King Piccolo is 5-C because Roshi thinks he couldn't defeat him even in his Max power form, which is 5-C too?

I don't know why we assume Shenron has Ki Manipulation, let alone destructive capacity through it—Never has Shenron granted a wish that involved Ki Manipulation, if I recall correctly. Also, why would be "mightier than King Piccolo" if King Piccolo casually one-shot him after regaining his youth.

Shenron clarifies he could defeat the Saiyans if he were mightier.
And I said he's killed by King Piccolo while lowering his guard.

Shenron isn't comparable to Kami. Part of Kami's justification states that Shenron is inferior to him due to being his creation.

Kami states he can't resurrect people, so even if Shenron's combat power were lower than his (*), his non-combat power is higher than his.
(*) Him being his creation doesn't mean he's weaker than him.

He already has 5-C AP for restoring the moon, although it should probably be changed to something like "Moon level via various wishes (Recreated the moon. Restored King Piccolo to his former prime)" or just removed entirely since:

1. It is Reality Warping and non-combat applicable Reality Warping at that.
2. Shenron never explicitly restored the moon.

As for everything else, Shenron is better off with his Unknown ratings, since he isn't a combat character, although you could probably give him a Lifting Strength based on his weight, since he is a massive dragon.

1. It being non-combat power supports City level combat power.
2. If it's Kami who restores the moon, then Shenron still can do so.

Also, Planet Namek is in a star system on the opposite side of the universe from Earth, so his Interstellar range would be upgraded to Intergalactic for resurrecting everyone who Frieza killed on Namek. Besides that, he has several global-scale feats in the Buu Saga.

No problem.

Babidi's Manipulation Sorcery is explicitly a magical ability.
Anyway, there is nothing to support the idea that his other abilities are 4-B, so that part of his tier should be removed, and his force-field should be moved from Attack Potency to Durability exclusive, leaving him with Unknown AP since, as the Supreme Kai stated, he has literally no destructive capabilities. All of that other stats are fine where they are, too.

Durability: At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation and possibly other magic abilities (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion), but at most Wall level physically.
Attack Potency: Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (see above), but at most Wall level via Ki Manipulation (Is stated to need to manipulate others because of being weak by Kaiōshin, which includes Supopobitchi and Yamū).

 

[Somelatinguy]

Sorry for using the Japanese names, it's just that I grew up with the Latin American dub.
Anyway, I edited Babidi's part of the OP, so it's more accurate now.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Shenron clarifies he could defeat the Saiyans if he were mightier.

"I was made by a god. I cannot grant a wish that surpasses the power of God."
His Reality Warping abilities are limited by the strength of his creator. That does not mean Shenron himself possesses combat abilities.

And I said he's killed by King Piccolo while lowering his guard.

Shenron was not off-guard.

Kami states he can't resurrect people, so even if Shenron's combat power were lower than his (*), his non-combat power is higher than his.

I have no idea why Kami being incapable of Resurrection means that Shenron is more powerful than him in terms of magical ability.

1. It being non-combat power supports City level combat power.

Again, there is no evidence of Shenron having any combat ability or destructive capabilities outside of his Reality Warping. He will remain 5-C with his wish granting abilities and nothing else, unless you can provide proof of Shenron possessing Ki Manipulation or literally any combat ability in general.

Durability: At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation and possibly other magic abilities (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion), but at most Wall level physically.
Attack Potency: Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (see above), but at most Wall level via Ki Manipulation (Is stated to need to manipulate others because of being weak by Kaiōshin, which includes Supopobitchi and Yamū).

No Wall level Babidi—stop it.

Shin states that he is physically incapable, and that his Manipulation Sorcery, which is magic not Ki Manipuloation, does not overpower its targets but simply amplifies the evil in their hearts. The Daizenshuu states that he has extremely low power, and the El Manga Legendario outright states he lacks strength. He should be flat-out Below Average Human level. And once again, his Attack Potency should not scale from his defensive spells, not even a possibly.

 

[Somelatinguy]

"I was made by a god. I cannot grant a wish that surpasses the power of God."
His Reality Warping abilities are limited by the strength of his creator. That does not mean Shenron himself possesses combat abilities.

1a) "I cannot grant a wish that surpasses the power of God" (not "that matches the...").
1b) He has a physical body with striking strength and is a living being with ki; otherwise, he wouldn't clarify he could defeat the Saiyans if he were mightier.

Shenron was not off-guard.

2) He wasn't in a fighting stance.

I have no idea why Kami being incapable of Resurrection means that Shenron is more powerful than him in terms of magical ability.

3) Kami can use magic, so he'd be able to resurrect people if his magic power were as high as Shenron's.

Again, there is no evidence of Shenron having any combat ability or destructive capabilities outside of his Reality Warping. He will remain 5-C with his wish granting abilities and nothing else, unless you can provide proof of Shenron possessing Ki Manipulation or literally any combat ability in general.

4) See point 1b.

No Wall level Babidi—stop it.

Shin states that he is physically incapable, and that his Manipulation Sorcery, which is magic not Ki Manipuloation, does not overpower its targets but simply amplifies the evil in their hearts. The Daizenshuu states that he has extremely low power, and the El Manga Legendario outright states he lacks strength. He should be flat-out Below Average Human level. And once again, his Attack Potency should not scale from his defensive spells, not even a possibly.

5) I said at most Wall level.
Those sources don't say how weak he exactly is; and even if they said he's below Average Human level, that'd actually help my point: Magic power ≠ Physical power.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

1b) He has a physical body with striking strength and is a living being with ki

Every living being has a physical body with Striking Strength and Ki—do we make a civilization page for Earthlings?

otherwise, he wouldn't clarify he could defeat the Saiyans if he were mightier.

"I was made by a god. I cannot grant a wish that surpasses the power of God."
His Reality Warping abilities* are limited by the strength of his creator. That does not mean Shenron himself possesses combat abilities.

* Remember, his Reality Warping abilities have shown no sign of being combat applicable nor related to his combat ability, or rather lack thereof.

2) He wasn't in a fighting stance.

Because he does not have one, nor does he have combat ability.

3) Kami can use magic, so he'd be able to resurrect people if his magic power were as high as Shenron's.

I have no idea why Kami being incapable of Resurrection means that Shenron is more powerful than him in terms of magical ability.

One's magic power has nothing to do with the abilities in their arsenal. If that were the case, Shin and Babidi would have the same magical abilities, since they are considered rivals to each other in the field of psychics and magical prowess.

4) See point 1b.

You have yet to show me any evidence of Shenron actually being able to fight anybody. Using his Reality Warping abilities to destroy somebody does not mean he has combat ability or any innate destructive capabilities, it is simply one of his many reality altering abilities. Until you have proven that Shenron does have a battle power worth noting, and the ability to use Ki in a destructive manner, or just the ability to fight anybody with any part of him, this point is nullflower and void.

5) I said at most Wall level.
Those sources don't say how weak he exactly is; and even if they said he's below Average Human level, that'd actually help my point: Magic power ≠ Physical power.

"Magic power ≠ Physical power"
Why does this apply only to Babidi but not Shenron?

And, once again:

1. "Don't let his physical weakness fool you." Dragon Ball Z, Ch. 253: The Evil Masters
2. "He has extremely low power ..." Daizenshuu 7, Character Dictionary
3. "Although he lacks strength ..." El Manga Legendario / The Legendary Manga, Vol. 44

These three statements give you a general idea of his overall battle power. Also, I don't know if I mentioned this already, but Babidi has never used Ki Manipulation to my knowledge, although I may be wrong on that one. Either way, no "at most Wall level", there is nothing to back that up. He is stated numerous times to be extremely lacking in the power department, so either he becomes Unknown or flat out Below Average Human level. Given his statements of physical ineptitude going the actual mile to state that he is either extremely weak or just straight up lacks strength in general, the latter is the most reasonable.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Every living being has a physical body with Striking Strength and Ki—do we make a civilization page for Earthlings?

No, we should only understand how Shenron or Kami could defeat the Saiyans if they were mightier.

* Remember, his Reality Warping abilities have shown no sign of being combat applicable nor related to his combat ability, or rather lack thereof.

Neither reality warping nor magic has anything to do with that wish, as as he'd only use his striking strength or ki manipulation to defeat the Saiyans if he were mightier.

Because he does not have one, nor does he have combat ability.

He doesn't even make a surprise expression.

One's magic power has nothing to do with the abilities in their arsenal. If that were the case, Shin and Babidi would have the same magical abilities, since they are considered rivals to each other in the field of psychics and magical prowess.

Magic depends on skill, mental strength and mental stamina, so Kami states he can't resurrect people because his level at these three stats is lower than Shenron's.

You have yet to show me any evidence of Shenron actually being able to fight anybody. Using his Reality Warping abilities to destroy somebody does not mean he has combat ability or any innate destructive capabilities, it is simply one of his many reality altering abilities. Until you have proven that Shenron does have a battle power worth noting, and the ability to use Ki in a destructive manner, or just the ability to fight anybody with any part of him, this point is nullflower and void.

Again, he has a physical body with striking strength and is a living being with ki, and again, neither reality warping nor magic has anything to do with the wish, as...

"Magic power ≠ Physical power"
Why does this apply only to Babidi but not Shenron?

And, once again:

1. "Don't let his physical weakness fool you." Dragon Ball Z, Ch. 253: The Evil Masters
2. "He has extremely low power ..." Daizenshuu 7, Character Dictionary
3. "Although he lacks strength ..." El Manga Legendario / The Legendary Manga, Vol. 44

These three statements give you a general idea of his overall battle power. Also, I don't know if I mentioned this already, but Babidi has never used Ki Manipulation to my knowledge, although I may be wrong on that one. Either way, no "at most Wall level", there is nothing to back that up. He is stated numerous times to be extremely lacking in the power department, so either he becomes Unknown or flat out Below Average Human level. Given his statements of physical ineptitude going the actual mile to state that he is either extremely weak or just straight up lacks strength in general, the latter is the most reasonable.

This applies to both characters.
1. How bad is his physical weakness, exactly? / 2. How low is his power, exactly? / 3. How much strength does he lack, exactly?
And again, him being below Average Human level would actually help my main point, Magic power ≠ Physical power, even more, and for both him and Shenron.

 

[Somelatinguy]

I've been thinking and I was wrong when saying...
"Magic depends on skill, mental strength and mental stamina, so Kami states he can't resurrect people because his level at these three stats is lower than Shenron's"...
as neither Shenlong's mental strength nor mental stamina can be higher than those of his creator Kami, but his skill is still higher.

Anyway, I edited Shenlong's part of the OP, so it's more accurate now.

 

[Somelatinguy]

New title and much-edited OP.

 

[Somelatinguy]

It's been a week and this CRT's OP received some objections that forced it to improve, but does everybody think it can be used to edit profiles now?

 

[Mageman460]

Okay, to start. Shenron never fights, but King Piccolo is 5-C so scaling to him would make Shenron 5-C. We also have no proof that Shenron has Ki Manipulation. Also, Shenron is not EQUAL to Kami. He just can not grant wishes that exceed Kami's power.

For Babidi, as has been stated MULTIPLE times, Babidi has no attack spells, other than the ones that explode people and ignore durability. Scaling to his shields makes no sense. Babidi has literally ZERO physical feats. Why should he scale above Spopovich and Yamu ... at all? We don't even know if he can use Ki.

Porunga... really the same stuff as Shenron. Except ... why would his creator scale to Nappa? Like at all?

Profiles for these characters don't even really matter because they don't fight ... ever.

 

[Planck69]

It's been a week and this CRT's OP received some objections that forced it to improve, but does everybody think it can be used to edit profiles now?

Nobody is editing anything until some staff members agree.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Thanks, I'll never say that again.

 

[LightReinh12345]

For their Lifting strength we have ti calc the weight of shenron & porunga perhaps

 

[Somelatinguy]

Okay, to start. Shenron never fights,

He can fight, as he has a physical body with striking strength and is a living being with ki.

but King Piccolo is 5-C so scaling to him would make Shenron 5-C.

King Piccolo is only City level; Master Roshi destroys the moon in his Max Power form, which he can’t use in a battle prior to Super as he can’t control it yet and loses speed and stamina with it.

We also have no proof that Shenron has Ki Manipulation.

Ok, he probably doesn't know how to use his ki; I'll edit that part.

Also, Shenron is not EQUAL to Kami. He just can not grant wishes that exceed Kami's power.

He says "that exceeds the...", not "that matches the...".

For Babidi, as has been stated MULTIPLE times, Babidi has no attack spells, other than the ones that explode people and ignore durability.

That means he's not skilled at attack magic.

Scaling to his shields makes no sense.

It can withstand a Solar System level attack.

Babidi has literally ZERO physical feats. Why should he scale above Spopovich and Yamu ... at all? We don't even know if he can use Ki.

He's below Spopovich's and Yamu's levels; but ok, I'll edit his Ki Manipulation part too.

Porunga... really the same stuff as Shenron. Except ... why would his creator scale to Nappa? Like at all?

Moori is a relatively strong Namekian and should be stronger than Raditz.

Profiles for these characters don't even really matter because they don't fight ... ever.

Their profiles matter because they can fight with striking strength, even if they don't have Ki Manipulation.

 

[Mageman460]

King Piccolo is MOON Level, go check his page. If you want to downgrade him make a separate CRT.

King Piccolo

That's the problem with the human race. No respect... for the superior species.King Piccolo King Piccolo (ピッコロ大魔王, Pikkoro Daimaō; lit. "Piccolo the Great Demon King"), sometimes referred to just as the Daimao (大魔王; Great Demon King) is a major antagonist in the Dragon Ball manga and anime...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't even know what you're trying to argue with exceeds vs matches ... Also I said exceeds.

Babidi has no reason to have 4-B via attack spells because he has no attack spells that would rely on AP. The only "Attack" spells are the durability ignoring ones, thus they don't get 4-B.

I wasn't arguing he couldn't withstand 4-B attacks with his barrier ... at all. I'm saying there is no reason to scale THEORETICAL attack spells to his defensive powers. Especially since if he was 4-B then he would be above Dabura, Gohan, AND Supreme Kai.

Yup, he's below Spopovich and Yamu. Thus he doesn't get 9-B. He gets Unknown at best 10-C at worst

 

[Somelatinguy]

King Piccolo is MOON Level, go check his page. If you want to downgrade him make a separate CRT.

King Piccolo

That's the problem with the human race. No respect... for the superior species.King Piccolo King Piccolo (ピッコロ大魔王, Pikkoro Daimaō; lit. "Piccolo the Great Demon King"), sometimes referred to just as the Daimao (大魔王; Great Demon King) is a major antagonist in the Dragon Ball manga and anime...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The only reason for the Moon level is Master Roshi's feat, which I already explained.
King Piccolo's most powerful move, Explosive Demon Wave, barely destroys a city.

I don't even know what you're trying to argue with exceeds vs matches ... Also I said exceeds.

That's the point; if Shenron were weaker than Kami, he'd say "I cannot grant a wish that matches the power of God."

Babidi has no reason to have 4-B via attack spells because he has no attack spells that would rely on AP. The only "Attack" spells are the durability ignoring ones, thus they don't get 4-B.

That's why I said "Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (See Durability)."

I wasn't arguing he couldn't withstand 4-B attacks with his barrier ... at all. I'm saying there is no reason to scale THEORETICAL attack spells to his defensive powers. Especially since if he was 4-B then he would be above Dabura, Gohan, AND Supreme Kai.

That's why I said "At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation and possibly other magic abilities (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion), but at most Wall level physically."

Yup, he's below Spopovich and Yamu. Thus he doesn't get 9-B. He gets Unknown at best 10-C at worst

Spopovich and Yamu are Wall level, so Babidi is Wall level at best.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The only reason for the Moon level is Master Roshi's feat, which I already explained.
King Piccolo's most powerful move, Explosive Demon Wave, barely destroys a city.

Roshi considered an old Piccolo to be so powerful that not even the combined efforts of himself and Tien could put a dent in him. Of course, this would include his Max Power Mode, because Roshi had to resort to the Mafuba to defeat him.

That's the point; if Shenron were weaker than Kami, he'd say "I cannot grant a wish that matches the power of God."

What's the point you're trying to make again? That Shenron kills his targets with Ki Manipulation? You still have not proved anything.

That's why I said "Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (See Durability)."

You cannot scale Attack Potency from Durability, especially when Babidi has little to no offensive abilities.

That's why I said "At least Solar System level via Force Field Creation and possibly other magic abilities (His Wizard Barrier withstands Majin Bū's Angry Explosion), but at most Wall level physically."

Spopovich and Yamu are Wall level, so Babidi is Wall level at best.

Why does Babidi scale to Spopovich and Yamu physically again? Is it because he can amplify the evil in their hearts and control their minds through that, which is hax and thus, does not scale to AP, or because he pointed towards them and blew up their heads, which is hax?

Stop trying to scale Babidi's other magical powers to 4-B through the barrier.
What, is his Reality Warping also 4-B? Is his Teleportation?

 

[Mageman460]

Once again, if you want to downgrade King Piccolo, make a different CRT.

Okay, was just confused on your phrasing there.

Babidi has NO attack spells. If he used a spell to attack at all, then he might qualify for the 4-B. However he doesn't attack, so he doesn't get 4-B.

Again, not arguing the Durability. His AP doesn't scale to his Durability.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Roshi considered an old Piccolo to be so powerful that not even the combined efforts of himself and Tien could put a dent in him. Of course, this would include his Max Power Mode, because Roshi had to resort to the Mafuba to defeat him.

I said he can't use his Max Power form in a battle prior to Super as he can't control it yet and loses speed and stamina with it.

What's the point you're trying to make again? That Shenron kills his targets with Ki Manipulation? You still have not proved anything.

My point is that Shenron can grant wishes that match Kami's power.

You cannot scale Attack Potency from Durability, especially when Babidi has little to no offensive abilities.

That's why I said "Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (that he doesn't show but may have).

Why does Babidi scale to Spopovich and Yamu physically again? Is it because he can amplify the evil in their hearts and control their minds through that, which is hax and thus, does not scale to AP, or because he pointed towards them and blew up their heads, which is hax?

It's because the beings he possesses are stronger than him.

Stop trying to scale Babidi's other magical powers to 4-B through the barrier.
What, is his Reality Warping also 4-B? Is his Teleportation?

Since his Wizard Barried is Solar System level, other magic abilities (that he doesn't show but may have) may be that level too.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I said he can't use his Max Power form in a battle prior to Super as he can't control it yet and loses speed and stamina with it.

A decrease in speed does not mean he cannot use the form in a battle. Also, how do we know he loses speed? Unless I'm missing something, which I probably am, it was never stated that his Max Power state actually hindered him.

Either way, there's other scaling. Roshi stated that Tien could have ended up defeating him had their fight continued in the 22nd Budokai and stated that Tien's Tri-Beam surpassed the power of the Kamehameha, implying that Tien scales to Roshi's Max Power, and Goku ends up scaling as a result.

If you really want to change this, create a separate CRT and suffer.

My point is that Shenron can grant wishes that match Kami's power.

Great! Shenron is already 5-C.

That's why I said "Possibly at least Solar System level via certain magic abilities (that he doesn't show but may have).
Since his Wizard Barried is Solar System level, other magic abilities (that he doesn't show but may have) may be that level too.

You can't create a possibly out of an unknown unknown.

Possibly​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

It's because the beings he possesses are stronger than him.

Oooh, so hax. Again, Manipulation Sorcery does not scale to his Attack Potency.

 

[Somelatinguy]

A decrease in speed does not mean he cannot use the form in a battle. Also, how do we know he loses speed? Unless I'm missing something, which I probably am, it was never stated that his Max Power state actually hindered him.

He doesn't use it against 21 Budokai Goku or 22 Budokai Tien.
Before using it to destroy the moon, he states there's no choice, and after using it, he loses most of his power.

Either way, there's other scaling. Roshi stated that Tien could have ended up defeating him had their fight continued in the 22nd Budokai and stated that Tien's Tri-Beam surpassed the power of the Kamehameha, implying that Tien scales to Roshi's Max Power, and Goku ends up scaling as a result.

That Kikōhō is weaker than the first Max Power form Kamehameha, which barely destroys a mountain, so a Kikōhō only surpasses a regular Kamehameha.

If you really want to change this, create a separate CRT and suffer.

I hope the staff members take this into account and I don't have to do that.

Great! Shenron is already 5-C.

Yes, via Restoration magic/reality warping, bot only City level at striking strength and, if he can use his ki, at Ki Manipulation.

You can't create a possibly out of an unknown unknown.

The "may have" part leads to the "possibly" part."

Oooh, so hax. Again, Manipulation Sorcery does not scale to his Attack Potency.

It's not hax or the manipulation sorcery itself, but the fact that he needs Wall level beings to protect him.

 

[Mageman460]

Staff has discussed it actually and they came to the conclusion that we have been saying.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/addressing-roshis-feat.109030/

Babidi has no attack spells, therefore he can not attack with magic. Unless we want to make various assumptions and head cannon. However, it makes no sense for him to have 4-B attack spells that scale to Majin Buu because, again, then he could have stomped all of the cast with ease and wouldn't have needed bodyguards.

 

[Somelatinguy]

He lacks attack spells, but his Wizard Barrier uses magic power, so I moved it back to Attack Potency prior to posting my last reply.
Force Field Creation isn't attack magic, but Restoration isn't attack magic, either.

 

[Mageman460]

What? His forcefield isn't an attack though. It's Durability. There is no reason to scale his AP to Durability.

 

[Vietthai96]

What? His forcefield isn't an attack though. It's Durability. There is no reason to scale his AP to Durability.

He messed up and swap Dura with AP

 

[Somelatinguy]

His Wizard Barrier doesn't let him withstand attacks but avoid them, so it doesn't count for Durability.
It may even let him attack opponents by charging at them while using as the energy construct it is.
Also, Restoration of a moon or a planet isn't attack magic either, yet it counts for Attack Potency.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It's a creation feat, hence why Shenron is "5-C via Wish Granting" and not straight up 5-C.

And once again, you're trying to give him a rating out of an unknown unknown. He has not displayed the ability to use the barrier offensively, no databook has stated he could do as such, and even if he could, it would not be 4-B. Just drop the point. You're getting nowhere.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Restoration is a magic spell, and Wizard Barrier is another magic spell, so it doesn't need to be used offensively in order to count for Attack Potency.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

There is a difference between having an AP rating for a creation feat and having an AP rating for literally nothing.

 

[Axxtentacle]

If Babidi isn't shown to have offensive magic he can attack with, the "universal energy system" part doesn't apply. You can technically apply it to all of his other spells nonetheless.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

4-B teleportation, lesss go

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, sure lmao, why not?

 

[Somelatinguy]

Teleportation level would be difficult to calculate.
Restoration and Barrier Creation are another matter.