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Kazumi Subaru vs. Madara Uchiha

Kazumi's go to is void manip.

How does it work?

Limbo one shots for now,she has no answer to them and the AP is enough for it.
 
Slacjow said:
Kazumi's go to is void manip.
How does it work?

Limbo one shots for now,she has no answer to them and the AP is enough for it.
Click to expand...
By shooting laser at her opponents.

Kazumi has combat applicable Type 6 through backup body. She also has pretty broken power mimicry which can copy stuff like Matter manip and time manip.
 
Those are easy to dodge or absorb,considering Madara's absurd senses,he can fight opponents without his eyes and his senses are comparable to SOSP Naruto.He can also nullify it with TSB,although I am not sure how Power Nullification deals with Void Manipulation.

I am not voting or anything.
 
Slacjow said:
Those are easy to dodge or absorb,considering Madara's absurd senses,he can fight opponents without his eyes and his senses are comparable to SOSP Naruto.He can also nullify it with TSB,although I am not sure how Power Nullification deals with Void Manipulation.

I am not voting or anything.
Click to expand...
Madara never absorbed something that erased things out of existence, it won't work. All Magical Girl resists power null on daily basis. TSB is not a problem, one void manip and it's gone. Kazumi can copy his power with power mimicry.
 
Thats not how absorption works.It netralises and absorbs things in general,its a beam,so it gets absorbed,Madara doesn't make contact with a technique that he absorbs.Unless it spawns right on him.

All Magical Girl resists power null on daily basis.

TSB is not a problem, one void manip and it's gone.

TSB's power null is above Subaru's AP.
 
Slacjow said:
Thats not how absorption works.It netralises and absorbs things in general,its a beam,so it gets absorbed,Madara doesn't make contact with a technique that he absorbs.Unless it spawns right on him.

All Magical Girl resists power null on daily basis.

TSB is not a problem, one void manip and it's gone.

TSB's power null is above Subaru's AP.
Click to expand...
Power null has nothing to do with AP.
 
Slacjow said:
It has,unless its NLF.
Click to expand...
No, that is not how it work. you can have ridiculously high ap like 3-A or something, but if the power null is basic, it can be resisted by someone from lower tier who has resistance to power null.

Kazumi also has power mimicry that can copy his powersets.
 
Madara can also copy abilities, so I don't see your point. I also doubt she could copy abilities that need Senjutsu or SOSP chakra, it is too specific to copy. I would like to see some feats tho.

So, she starts with void manipulation? It seems to be with a laser, correct? Madara can dodge it if there isnt something preventing him to do so. He can switch places with Limbo.

And hey, could she even see or sense Limbo? Eeeh, that's something to consider here. Limbo is intangible to someone without Senjutsu. Her void manipulation wouldn't work on him. And Madara has 4 to use.

There are also tons of mindhax to use. I am voting Madara
 
Being "too specific" doesn't grant you resistance to power mimicry, all Magical Girl power specifically tied to their wishes when they made a contract with Kyubey and Kazumi copied them all the same. He doesn't have power mimicry resistance in his profiles so, Kazumi copied his abilities just fine.

I would say his mimicry is inferior to Kazumi since she can copy power like time manipulation and Matter manip. I don't remembers he can copy hax like that.

Seeing invisible things is like one of the requirement of being Magical Girl since every witches are invisible. So no, she can see Limbo just fine.

Kazumi can also creates a witch barrier where she has full control over it and can use it for combat. Madara doesn't resists Reality Warping, so Kazumi can turned him into a cartoonish looking person and tore him apart.

Mindhax shouldn't not be a problem when Kazumi has back up bodies and can jump into them when needed.
 
Just Invisible things and Invisible things that exist in another dimension that can't be touched unless you have SPC is a bit different.
 
Why does the "from another dimension" matter? all magical girls can see witches they're all passively invisible, and given she has access to witch abilities she can reality warp him and retreat into a barrier if things get tough

Duplication lets her do a bunch of things at the same time, age manip / summoning / bfr and seal / make him intangible and unable to do anything

Granted i don't know kazumi that well so i don't know how much of this she would do

Though does madara just not use infinite tsukuyomi? that would give him the win i believe
 
Being "too specific" doesn't grant you resistance to power mimicry, all Magical Girl power specifically tied to their wishes when they made a contract with Kyubey and Kazumi copied them all the same. He doesn't have power mimicry resistance in his profiles so, Kazumi copied his abilities just fine.

You're putting words in my mouth, and I wouldn't want you to do that again.

I never said that "being too specific" would guarantee him resistance to "Power Mimicry". Only that Senjutsu and SOSP chakra is not equalized here, and to copy Madara's abilities, the types of energy mentioned by me, above, would need to be equalized. Also, most of Madara's powers come from his eyes, if you can't prove that she can copy something from a particular artifact (in this case, eye), then I find it hard to work.

I would say his mimicry is inferior to Kazumi since she can copy power like time manipulation and Matter manip. I don't remembers he can copy hax like that

Everything energy-based, he can copy. Considering chakra is equal to the energy that she is using, is equal. But that's not relevant here, since Madara doesn't need her abilities.

Seeing invisible things is like one of the requirement of being Magical Girl since every witches are invisible. So no, she can see Limbo just fine.

Cool, she just got a method to see them, but a method is still missing to affect them. Both Madara and Limbos can only be affected by Senjutsu (check Madara's profile for his Limited Invulnerability). She will not be able to interact with them as well, even Sasuke couldn't hit Limbo with his sword, because they are present in another dimension. She would need "Cross dimensional" range to affect them. (And hey, Madara actually massively outrange her)

Kazumi can also creates a witch barrier where she has full control over it and can use it for combat. Madara doesn't resists Reality Warping, so Kazumi can turned him into a cartoonish looking person and tore him apart.

I would like to know if she starts with this abilitie, please. And how high is her Reality Warp? Because... depending of what she can do (i.e what she already did, only that), Madara can resist. He also has Izanagi that can be used if he dies.

Mindhax shouldn't not be a problem when Kazumi has back up bodies and can jump into them when needed

What stops Madara from mindhaxing all body minds? I mean, she doesn't have any resistance to mind manipuation, and Madara has inumerous ways to mindhax.

And hey, Madara scales above 300 Exatons of TNT, she scales to 61.66 Exatons, that's 4.8 times difference in AP. And she would need deal with 5 Madaras (all of them with 300 Exatons AP each), and she can't touch, affect or damage 4 of them. Madara can still use IT to finish the fight.
 
Well, to give an idea. A regular sharingan or byakugan can see pure chakra. Which is invisible, but can't see limbo clones (Or touch them, for that matter). So... Being able to see invisible stuff /= being able to see limbo clones. They exist in an invisible parallel world which overlaps the physical one.

They are stated to be undetectable, unpercievable, and iirc untraceable as well.

Also What M3X likely means by "Too Specific" is that she probably couldn't copy his SPC and Senjutsu abilities because of the leaps and unreasonable assumptions that would need to be made.

If we say she can copy his abilities because Magic=Chakra, well, that's fine as far as pure ninjutsu goes. But it's a very tough argument to apply that to Senjutsu, SPC, or Kekkei Genkai (Bloodline trait)
 
Madara FRA, the Limbo clones are not invisible they exist in another dimension all together which makes them seem to be invisible to the average person, to be able to fight them you need cross-diemsnsional senses or sight and cross-dimensional range with your attacks. She doest resist matter manip or deconsruction so she gets oneshot. If she gets hit by TSBs, her EE is a ray apparently so his tsbs can definitely block it as long as it has a medium of a sort.
 
"Can she see invisible things from another dimension or not? And feats would be great."

Coincidently, Kazumi's event story in Magia Record shows that magical girls' extrasensory perception can in fact, see beings in other dimensions.

Feat 1: Kazumi's mind is split between the 8 directions and a ninth direction which is implied to be a geometric one. Umika and Karou, two ordinary magical girls who Kazumi also coincidently has her powers from, is able to see and interact with her.

Feat 2: Touka (Or Nemu, don't quite remember) mention its possible to sense Walpurgisnacht cross universes.

So it should be okay.

As for Power mimicry, should also be okay. If you can tell me why it shouldn't I'll be glad to discuss, but nothing mentioned yet really is beyond the scope of a magical girl.

Magical Girls's general portal creation also includes the ability to affect pocket universes (barriers) to a limited degree.

Feat 1: Yachiyo and Mifuyu moving the Mirror Witch's barrier to neutral territory in the Breakpoint event story, despite the barrier being implied to be a small multiverse in itself.

Feat 2: Kazumi literally having pocket reality manip.
 
Oh and as for AP, she one shot the witch she scales from and Scala A Paradiso made several tier 7 magical girls evolve into tier 5, needless to say, AP won't be a problem at all.
 
Quick question, why is her Void Manipulation for this key considered, possibly?
 
Ok, so just comparing hax, right? Since tier and speed are equalized?

Advantages for Madara:

1, many more years of experience

2, Limbo clones might possibly be outside the reach of magical girls (unsure).

3, Edit: whoops, forgot how Genjutsu worked. Gonna add this to Madara's advantages

Advantages for Kazumi:

1, EE outclasses TSB: TSB cannot be replaced, and their power null only works on chakra, which Kazumi doesn't use, so they wouldn't counter Kazumi's EE, and Madara would lose one evey time he tries

2, presumably smaller weak point: Madara can presumably be taken down by head shot, while Kazumi can only be taken down by soul gem shot

3, immune to Infinite Tsukuyomi: doesn't affect the undead, Kazumi is undead

4,Edit: whoops, forgot how Genjutsu worked. Ignore this one.

5, reality manipulation and time manipulation

6, experience with witches might possibly counter Limbo clones (unsure)

Neutral: I don't think either can copy the other's abilities. The magic systems feel too different for them to be compatable like that.

Gonna vote Kazumi: time manip + EE = GG
 
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