Kazumi Subaru vs. Madara Uchiha

[Duedate8898]

On your first point supporting Kazumi, Madara would have no reason to keep trying to block attacks with Truth Seeking Orbs if one gets destroyed by a beam attack.

On your second point, her regenration is tied directly to her absorbing things with her only ever absorbing clones of herself.

On your 5th point, most of her time manpiulation is only self applicable with it being used to speed herself up and slow down her own body. The one that isn't first exist as eletricity that can be dodged. Though her Reality Warping might actually seal the deal for her, don't really know how it works.

 

[Duedate8898]

And while both are 5-C, Madara is higher within the tier then she is, which means he also holds the physical edge in this battle.

 

[YungManzi]

Being immune to genjutsu via not having a brain isn't a thing.

Obito could use genutsu on Kurama while he was still inside of Kushina.

And I don't think there's any evidence for Juubi having physical brains while they're sealed away.

 

[OptimusLagann]

Ok, I'll admit defeat to some of my earlier points (it's been a while since I read either manga), such as genjutsu being wrong, but I stand by Kazumi's regen being better, because that's a universal ability of magical girls in that universe. Her absorbing clones speeds up the process, but she's not reliant on them. I also stand by time manipulation being an advantage, because if they start w/ equalized speed, then she speeds herself up, then she has the speed advantage.

 

[Randomlamdom]

It's mid healing not regen, but it's basically the same anyway

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I think Limbo and mindhax seal the deal+AP advantage

 

[Padaruyos]

What can Kazumi do with her Time Manipulation? Stopping? Accelerating?

 

[Randomlamdom]

Just speeding herself up or slowing her down

 

[Padaruyos]

So it's basically a stat amp. How far can Kazumi speed herself up, is there a maximum multiplier or something?

 

[Randomlamdom]

I don't know, i think it's just a unquantifiable speed up but i don't remember much about kazumi, somebodydata would know

somebodydata get back here

 

[SomebodyData]

You called?

Saki (Where Kazumi gets her time magic from) can slow herself down to the point that she doesn't have to worry about transforming into a witch, mid-transformation.

She can accelerate herself to the point that in a couple of seconds, a few weeks - months have gone by in her time, as shown when after she used it she had grown long hair despite ordinarily having a bob hair cut.

 

[Jinsye]

long haired Kazumi is the best Kazumi btw

 

[Blahblah9755]

Considering how long her hair got, it would definitely be months or more. So a few million times difference.

 

[SomebodyData]

Edward speakth truth

@Blahblah "a few"? I see.

 

[Slacjow]

She can accelerate herself to the point that in a couple of seconds, a few weeks - months have gone by in her time, as shown when after she used it she had grown long hair despite ordinarily having a bob hair cut.

Unequalize speed and it might be more fair.

 

[Duedate8898]

Isn't that more aging herself then anything else? Maybe citing how she used it in combat would make more sense.

 

[Padaruyos]

You called?
Saki (Where Kazumi gets her time magic from) can slow herself down to the point that she doesn't have to worry about transforming into a witch, mid-transformation.

She can accelerate herself to the point that in a couple of seconds, a few weeks - months have gone by in her time, as shown when after she used it she had grown long hair despite ordinarily having a bob hair cut.

Ah yes, the Made in Heaven strategy.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Duedate she used it to blitz someone.

@Pada oof sad memories

 

[Jinsye]

bump

 

[Randomlamdom]

Bumper

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Gonna have to vote Kazumi for this one.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Kazumi FRA

 

[Blahblah9755]

Kazumi FRA via speed amp to Void manip.

 

[DizzyMW3]

Kazumi FRA

 

[NotCensored]

Madara would still hold the speed advantage even with Kazumi's speed amp for reference Itachi's perception was only calced at 3.3x SoL (the calc is fine i think but it was deemed an outlier) when he stayed in an Illusion for literally 40+ years in the span of a second and the feat for Kazumi brought up so far was only a few months that's not even FTL where Madara comfortably sits, then he's got a 4x AP advantage and mindhax that can 1 shot i fail to see how he doesnt win atm

That being said if she has better feats with her time and reality manip please feel free to let me know

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Speed is equal, so that doesn't matter. The explanation was brought up to detail how drastic the speed amp is, not to say she was gonna get that fast and kick his ass.

 

[YungManzi]

You can't use a speed amp in speed equal to blitz someone who's faster than you normally

That's literally the main reason people are voting for her. Which is against the rules..

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I was actually voting for all the other stuff, on top of the fact that Madara won't be copying her powers.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

But it isn't actually a "speed amp", it is time acceleration.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It would still count as a speed amp due to the end result, which is that she can move way faster.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

It would still count as a speed amp due to the end result, which is that she can move way faster.

That is weird considering we have a guy whose main gist is speedblizting his opponent with time manip. Heck, even the thread where he won has speedblizting his opponent as the main reason he won.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Speed blitzing is not an issue, is speed blitzing being the main wincon when the character is way slower outside of speed equal.

We equalize to make the issue of speed more manageable, but "this slower guy won by speed blitzing" is... hardly something that makes much sense, and is counted as rigging things for one side by letting a buff that would normally not happen let one side stomp the other.

It was something decided when discussing speed equal before.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Well, when put it like that, it does makes no sense at all.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Though is not very important to me. Like I said, all the other stuff is why I am voting.

Plus the fact that she can mimic his powers but he can't hers. And as for why I say that, the Sharingan power mimic more or less mimics how to use a technique... that relies on chakra.

Not only is chakra not similar at all to the PMMM magic, there's no energy to equalize. And even said mimicry has limits, as abilities like kekkei genkai which can only be gained genetically or implanted with enough medical knowledge can't be copied. Not even magical girls can even attempt to replicate each other's magic, since is the result of more or less their individual wishes.And despite that she copied those.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

True.

Not to mention that every Magical Girls can see things from other dimension means Kazumi can clearly see Madara Limbo clones.

 

[YungManzi]

Even if she can sense them, she still can't interact with them without literal interdimensional range via her attacks.

In addition to that, she's going against 5+ opponents. All stronger than her and all far more skilled than her.

Her likely win-con is EE which is a laser beam, which means easily dodgable unless it has homing effects (Especially against someone like Madara).

Her other partial win-con is illegal.

So yeah, Madara for those reasons. I would also question Lancelot on him saying chakra and magic are too dissimilar to be equalized.

Because we almost never unequalize power systems based on that alone. Unless they're like One Piece's Haki vs. Nen, two completely incomparable power systems.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

1. Every Witches including the fodder one have Interdimensional range for being able to affect people outside of their Labyrinth which located in another dimension. Kazumi has all the abilities of her previous keys which includes Witches abilities. (Referring to her Third key). So yeah, she has no problem interracting with Limbo.

2. Kazumi has her own clones, 13 of them at least, all having the same abilities as the originals. She can fires EE laser from multiplies directions so he cannot dodge.

3. There is nothing wrong with dodging attack with time manip.

4. Can't really say anything about chakra, but Magic is PMMM is a bit different than your run mile Magic due to 1) It wasn't contained within their body but within their soul gem instead. 2) The Magic will got contaminated the more negative emotions the user has and it will no longer become Magic anymore. 3) "The Nature of wishes" comes in pay in deciding which Magic the Magical Girl has.

 

[YungManzi]

1) Her profile says she only has interdimensional range with extrasensory perception, and nobody's argued anything going against it until you just now. Make a CRT revising it.

2) Are her clones in-character?

3) There is if it makes her so much faster that she can speed blitz comparable opponents, which as other supporters have argued, it does.

4) Equalization accounts for even special properties a certain energy may have. Which is why, despite the addition of soul crush, we don't say Reiatsu isn't equalized to chakra.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Equalization is still only a thing when there's a close enough resemblance. An energy source used to fuel particular abilities and that you can run short on and need to replenish is equalizable enough, born from your own energy (soul in bleach, physical and mental in naruto) as well so that's something else in common.

But PMMM Magic has no energy source, they literally just do the thing and if they do it enough without using a Witch Seed to suck the blackness out, they become witches.

Is the same reason why you won't just equalize magic and ESP. There needs to be at least some level of resemblance.

 

[Randomlamdom]

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