Marvel Magic limitation

[Hypertornado099]

The point of this thread in summary is that magic's haxes provide a limited form of dura neg that doesn't instantly one shot anyone without resistance to it. Not that it isn't durability negation, or that it doesn't have 1-A hax

Exactly because Law's attack still allows for the oppnent to live it's why it's a great example of how durability negation doesn't need to instantly one shot a target.

I feel like you're agreeing with the thread now, since you're saying durability negation doesn't one shot anyone without a resistance to the hax, which is exactly what I'm saying

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The point of this thread in summary is that magic's haxes provide a limited form of dura neg that doesn't instantly one shot anyone without resistance to it. Not that it isn't durability negation, or that it doesn't have 1-A hax


I feel like you're agreeing with the thread now, since you're saying durability negation doesn't one shot anyone without a resistance to the hax, which is exactly what I'm saying

I'm not agreeing with you, I'm saying it doesn't need to one shot to be durability negation. You are trying to downgrade magic or ignore it's ability because it's "convenient" in a fight, it doesn't matter if you are directly saying it or not your point is downgrade magic.

 

[Hypertornado099]

I'm saying it doesn't need to one shot to be durability negation

This is literally agreeing with me though because that's what I'm arguing

 

[The_Impress]

If I recall, last time I asked about Hulk’s CM, two knowledgeable members were arguing against one another -_-

Bluename to Bluename Communication

 

[The_Impress]

Like okay, what is the thread objective? I have a difficulty parsing it because you start your OP with multiple lines explaining what the CRT ISN'T.

The examples you give confuse me abit because you're insinuating random magic blasts were... plothax? Duranag? Like, I don't think there was a statement like that telling those attacks were meant to be duraneg unless I am mistaken.

I am not like, against the CRT here, mostly just I am having a really hard time following what it is. It reads like you wanting to do a greater scope revision than what you're proposing right now, but got too intimidated to do an actual downgrade.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Like okay, what is the thread objective? I have a difficulty parsing it because you start your OP with multiple lines explaining what the CRT ISN'T.

The conclusion of the thread explains it

The examples you give confuse me abit because you're insinuating random magic blasts were... plothax? Duranag? Like, I don't think there was a statement like that telling those attacks were meant to be duraneg unless I am mistaken.

They were actually, that's how magic is described as working here

 

[Hypertornado099]

I am not like, against the CRT here, mostly just I am having a really hard time following what it is. It reads like you wanting to do a greater scope revision than what you're proposing right now, but got too intimidated to do an actual downgrade.

I don't think what I'm proposing is that much of a downgrade, since it doesn't really disagree with anything listed in the Magic profile. Its more like adding a clarification on magic's limitations

 

[Luxxy_Ethereal]

very impressive

 

[Qawsedf234]

Your input here would be appreciated

Magic is just a scaling ability. Magic is directly proportional to the caster and the power behind the spell. Certain spells when used by certain people are 1-A. Certain spells when used by certain people are Tier 9.

In my view Magic can go up to 1-A, but not every magical ability is 1-A. For the hax stuff like durability negation, it would be a layer thing. The Luke Cage example would just go: Cage > Magic = Durability Negation (Layer 1).

Anyways those are my thoughts on it. From my standpoint Daredevil resisting one magical mind control power isn't a 1-A resistance feat without showing that the magic power in question has that potency.

 

[Eseseso]

Magic is just a scaling ability. Magic is directly proportional to the caster and the power behind the spell. Certain spells when used by certain people are 1-A. Certain spells when used by certain people are Tier 9.

In my view Magic can go up to 1-A, but not every magical ability is 1-A. For the hax stuff like durability negation, it would be a layer thing. The Luke Cage example would just go: Cage > Magic = Durability Negation (Layer 1).

Anyways those are my thoughts on it. From my standpoint Daredevil resisting one magical mind control power isn't a 1-A resistance feat without showing that the magic power in question has that potency.

Is this in regards to its hax potency?

(As for Daredevil, all minds/souls are 1-A via Astral forms being 1-A).

 

[Qawsedf234]

this in regards to its hax potency?

It's in regards to the effects of powers and the lethal nature of them. Not every fireball spell is treated as an instant kill for Law and Plot Manipulation, but there are spells that do go that far.

 

[Entity]

Not everyone is able to control magic at the same level of others, so their manipulating the plot, the timeline, the laws of the universe and concepts translates in them firing lightings from their hands

 

[GeneralSol16]

Not everyone is able to control magic at the same level of others, so their manipulating the plot, the timeline, the laws of the universe and concepts translates in them firing lightings from their hands

The problem is most people think that same lighting has all of those types of Haxes, which I think is what the OP is trying to classify as "what it needs to be clear on"

 

[Entity]

The problem is most people think that same lighting has all of those types of Haxes, which I think is what the OP is trying to classify as "what it needs to be clear on"

We just need a simple note, but I think that the note presented in the thread is not enough

 

[Entity]

I would suggest dividing in a more visible way what magic users can actually do and what is the nature of magic, because it is often lost and reading the profile I have some difficulties at finding the areas where basic magic user stops and sorcerer suprem or demon lord starts

And for the note I will read the profile again, then maybe I'll come up with something

 

[Entity]

• These are the powers that come from using any magic, regardless of what type or spell, and should thus be attributed to any and all magic users, however it should be specified in each profile the pratical use they do of these powers (ex. Thor shooting lightings)

Or something similiar in the section dedicated to basic magic users, I'm not good with english, so someone could improve this
And then a note about magic not granting 1-A AP to all magic attacks should noted too

 

[GeneralSol16]

• These are the powers that come from using any magic, regardless of what type or spell, and should thus be attributed to any and all magic users, however it should be specified in each profile the pratical use they do of these powers (ex. Thor shooting lightings)

Or something similiar in the section dedicated to basic magic users, I'm not good with english, so someone could improve this
And then a note about magic not granting 1-A AP to all magic attacks should noted too

All that metaphysics is practically non combat applicable unless you're a Sorcerer Supreme or a high level demon, so, it should be noted as clear as possible in that regard.

 

[Ezaru]

I'm a bit confused, you bring up points showing that durability doesn't protect you, like Doom saying that anyone without Magic isn't able to defend against Magic, but also examples like Iron Man resisting it with armor

Really it seems like Marvel is just inconsistent, sometimes they portray magic as bypassing durability, and sometimes they don't.

But I don't really see why we can't just say durability in Marvel gives Magic resistance, depending on the character defending and the spell being used

 

[ArgentDragonPluto]

As a small side note, this sounds really terrible as an outsider:

Despite Magic's 1-A potency and durability negating traits, it is still affected by conventional durability. Depending on the potency, some spells may be resisted through conventional means by characters without a resistance to magic or its effects

To me, this seems like the OP is saying "Yeah, Marvel has 1-A contradiction, but it's Marvel so it's resistance with conventional durability." Literally no other verse would have this part and remain as 1-A. downgrade time?

So, as someone who isn't familiar with Marvel's cosmology, I think it should just be keept simple with this interpretation:

But yeah basically, not every spell is 1-A. Simple as. There are 1-A spells and there are 10-C spells in the verse. I don't see what the thread objective is. There are FAR WORSE things about the Marvel Magic page that are worth downgrading, I don't think this is one of them.

¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[MrKerf]

I would prefer for metaphysics not being combat applicable and us having separate abilities listed for each time a character has actually used magic in any way. For Basic Magic users at least.

 

[Entity]

• These are the powers that come from using any magic, regardless of what type or spell, and should thus be attributed to any and all magic users, however it should be specified in each profile the pratical use they do of these powers (ex. Thor shooting lightings)

Or something similiar in the section dedicated to basic magic users, I'm not good with english, so someone could improve this
And then a note about magic not granting 1-A AP to all magic attacks should noted too

All that metaphysics is practically non combat applicable unless you're a Sorcerer Supreme or a high level demon, so, it should be noted as clear as possible in that regard.

I would prefer for metaphysics not being combat applicable and us having separate abilities listed for each time a character has actually used magic in any way. For Basic Magic users at least.

@Hypertornado099

 

[The_Impress]

They were actually, that's how magic is described as working here

I ******* hate this page

Okay that's not legit, all outliers on the OP are valid, this is why you don't do general pages like this, you are expecting that writers care enough to get continuity to random ass statements consistently.

I'd suggest just straight up removing the plothax and wild shit like that.

 

[Entity]

I ******* hate this page

Okay that's not legit, all outliers on the OP are valid, this is why you don't do general pages like this, you are expecting that writers care enough to get continuity to random ass statements consistently.

I'd suggest just straight up removing the plothax and wild shit like that.

Maybe just saying that the plot hax translates into characters casting a fireball would be enough, the only thing is to do is to describe how it is used in combat, because just saying that everyone with magic conceptually destroys an enemy is wrong

 

[The_Impress]

Maybe just saying that the plot hax translates into characters casting a fireball would be enough, the only thing is to do is to describe how it is used in combat, because just saying that everyone with magic conceptually destroys an enemy is wrong

No it's just not good enough, lmao

The argument that every spell ever is through some 1-A dynamics backing it is ass, we are approaching like, the ******* "Every Marvel character has 1-A plothax resist through that one issue of No Road Home".

Like, genuinely, who yes'd this? It would require either such overwhelming number of scans validating it, and would be applicable to upwards of HUNDREDS OF PAGES, NOW OR EVER MADE, if they use magic they all get plothax.

Can someone provide me the thread that agreed to this?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I ******* hate this page

Okay that's not legit, all outliers on the OP are valid, this is why you don't do general pages like this, you are expecting that writers care enough to get continuity to random ass statements consistently.

I'd suggest just straight up removing the plothax and wild shit like that.

The magic page has over 400 referenced comics and handbooks, the explanation for plot hax has 7 of them including handbook.
You throw a few examples while calling the magic page "random ass statements".

 

[The_Impress]

The magic page has over 400 referenced comics and handbooks, the explanation for plot hax has 7 of them including handbook.

Let's take the example of one of the abilities, listed in Basic Magic:

• Plot Manipulation ("Magic is taking a thought and making it real. Taking a lie and making it the truth. Telling a story to the universe so utterly, cosmically perfect that for a single, shining moment... the world believes a man can fly ",<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:5-55"><span>[</span>55<span>]</span></a> and those stories mix with the All-That-Was and creating new things, becoming so big and mad and brilliant that they go back in time and change other stories.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-LAA17-56"><span>[</span>56<span>]</span></a> Doctor Doom tells Loki that magic is essentially a higher narrative into the flow of events, imposing a narrative upon reality, imposing a story, a fiction into reality and willing it to become true. To be a creature of magic is to be a creature of story. Right after this, he states that he himself is a creature of magic, which makes him a creature of story.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:10-59"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a> Magic is symbol and metaphor, and can be contained within metaphorical stories while in itself contain possible questions, such as "What if the future was unwritten, the present uncontained? What if we could go anywhere, do anything, be anyone? What if we were free? What couldn't we do, on the day all our cages open? What does the bridge to anywhere look like?". Stories turn moments into power--moments like this--and a teller of tales can harness that power, even in the moment.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-The_Immortal_Thor_#1-119"><span>[</span>119<span>]</span></a> The nature of magic being tightly connected to that of stories is also greatly explored here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-IT6-60"><span>[</span>60<span>]</span></a> One of the many mystical dimensions in the mystical universe, all of which are governed by magical energies, is the Astral Plane,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-HandbookAZ-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> which among other things is the realm of Narrative.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:0-101"><span>[</span>101<span>]</span></a>)

Total number of references: 7, between 4 runs total, 2 of which are Thor runs

Total number of characters that get plothax from this: 2086 at the bare minimum.

So no, you only need 7 instances of magic not doing plothax to overpower it.

Marvel Handbooks give Mojo Low 1-C Environmental Destruction through sheer existence, in a mechanic never shown onscreen and Mojo barely crossing 9-A, they are not reliable and we don't consider them reliable.

If you list 400 unrelated abilities you can get 400 references. Big whoop. That is a matter of quantity, not quality.

You throw a few examples while calling the magic page "random ass statements".

Do you register that this is not my thread before coming around to complain at me?

 

[YmTheSuper]

Can someone provide me the thread that agreed to this?

I believe it was this

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Let's take the example of one of the abilities, listed in Basic Magic:

• Plot Manipulation ("Magic is taking a thought and making it real. Taking a lie and making it the truth. Telling a story to the universe so utterly, cosmically perfect that for a single, shining moment... the world believes a man can fly ",<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:5-55"><span>[</span>55<span>]</span></a> and those stories mix with the All-That-Was and creating new things, becoming so big and mad and brilliant that they go back in time and change other stories.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-LAA17-56"><span>[</span>56<span>]</span></a> Doctor Doom tells Loki that magic is essentially a higher narrative into the flow of events, imposing a narrative upon reality, imposing a story, a fiction into reality and willing it to become true. To be a creature of magic is to be a creature of story. Right after this, he states that he himself is a creature of magic, which makes him a creature of story.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:10-59"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a> Magic is symbol and metaphor, and can be contained within metaphorical stories while in itself contain possible questions, such as "What if the future was unwritten, the present uncontained? What if we could go anywhere, do anything, be anyone? What if we were free? What couldn't we do, on the day all our cages open? What does the bridge to anywhere look like?". Stories turn moments into power--moments like this--and a teller of tales can harness that power, even in the moment.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-The_Immortal_Thor_#1-119"><span>[</span>119<span>]</span></a> The nature of magic being tightly connected to that of stories is also greatly explored here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-IT6-60"><span>[</span>60<span>]</span></a> One of the many mystical dimensions in the mystical universe, all of which are governed by magical energies, is the Astral Plane,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-HandbookAZ-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> which among other things is the realm of Narrative.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:0-101"><span>[</span>101<span>]</span></a>)

Total number of references: 7, between 4 runs total, 2 of which are Thor runs

Total number of characters that get plothax from this: 2086 at the bare minimum.

What?? I don't believe this, you really linked a marvel fandom category? That same link includes Peter Parker, MCU characters and many other universes that none of this scale to.

So no, you only need 7 instances of magic not doing plothax to overpower it.

Marvel Handbooks give Mojo Low 1-C Environmental Destruction through sheer existence, in a mechanic never shown onscreen and Mojo barely crossing 9-A, they are not reliable and we don't consider them reliable.

If you list 400 unrelated abilities you can get 400 references. Big whoop. That is a matter of quantity, not quality.

Marvel handbooks are not 1 writer who decided to do it on his own, and handbooks while still need further support they are evidence and and are reliable to some extent.
Most of the abilities listed on marvel magic page have huge walls of text and scans supporting it, others are just "enchanced" or "further" abilities that they already have normally.

Do you register that this is not my thread before coming around to complain at me?

It was you who said that not the OP, and you agreed with the OP so why complain?

 

[Eseseso]

Let's take the example of one of the abilities, listed in Basic Magic:

• Plot Manipulation ("Magic is taking a thought and making it real. Taking a lie and making it the truth. Telling a story to the universe so utterly, cosmically perfect that for a single, shining moment... the world believes a man can fly ",<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:5-55"><span>[</span>55<span>]</span></a> and those stories mix with the All-That-Was and creating new things, becoming so big and mad and brilliant that they go back in time and change other stories.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-LAA17-56"><span>[</span>56<span>]</span></a> Doctor Doom tells Loki that magic is essentially a higher narrative into the flow of events, imposing a narrative upon reality, imposing a story, a fiction into reality and willing it to become true. To be a creature of magic is to be a creature of story. Right after this, he states that he himself is a creature of magic, which makes him a creature of story.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:10-59"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a> Magic is symbol and metaphor, and can be contained within metaphorical stories while in itself contain possible questions, such as "What if the future was unwritten, the present uncontained? What if we could go anywhere, do anything, be anyone? What if we were free? What couldn't we do, on the day all our cages open? What does the bridge to anywhere look like?". Stories turn moments into power--moments like this--and a teller of tales can harness that power, even in the moment.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-The_Immortal_Thor_#1-119"><span>[</span>119<span>]</span></a> The nature of magic being tightly connected to that of stories is also greatly explored here.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-IT6-60"><span>[</span>60<span>]</span></a> One of the many mystical dimensions in the mystical universe, all of which are governed by magical energies, is the Astral Plane,<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-HandbookAZ-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> which among other things is the realm of Narrative.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:0-101"><span>[</span>101<span>]</span></a>)

Total number of references: 7, between 4 runs total, 2 of which are Thor runs

Total number of characters that get plothax from this: 2086 at the bare minimum.

So no, you only need 7 instances of magic not doing plothax to overpower it.

Marvel Handbooks give Mojo Low 1-C Environmental Destruction through sheer existence, in a mechanic never shown onscreen and Mojo barely crossing 9-A, they are not reliable and we don't consider them reliable.

If you list 400 unrelated abilities you can get 400 references. Big whoop. That is a matter of quantity, not quality.

Do you register that this is not my thread before coming around to complain at me?

While I personally wouldn't be too upset if plot hax was yeeted, the summary at the top goes into detail about the constant and consistent connection between magic and stories, including stuff outside of those 7 scans.

Magic is also thoroughly connected to the Gods who are abstract stories given form.

So while I would be personally happy if it left because it's a boringly OP ability, the connection between magic and stories is too consistent IMO to be deemed invalid.

 

[Eseseso]

• These are the powers that come from using any magic, regardless of what type or spell, and should thus be attributed to any and all magic users, however it should be specified in each profile the pratical use they do of these powers (ex. Thor shooting lightings)

Or something similiar in the section dedicated to basic magic users, I'm not good with english, so someone could improve this
And then a note about magic not granting 1-A AP to all magic attacks should noted too

Maybe just saying that the plot hax translates into characters casting a fireball would be enough, the only thing is to do is to describe how it is used in combat, because just saying that everyone with magic conceptually destroys an enemy is wrong

Something like this could work, though it's not 1-A AP as much as it is 1-A Smurf hax

 

[Entity]

Something like this could work, though it's not 1-A AP as much as it is 1-A Smurf hax

both

 

[The_Impress]

What?? I don't believe this, you really linked a marvel fandom category? That same link includes Peter Parker, MCU characters and many other universes that none of this scale to.

?

Marvel handbooks are not 1 writer who decided to do it on his own,

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

?

Link Marvel fandom wiki on category is a really awful argument.

Spoiler: So...

They do their research before making the handbooks

 

[The_Impress]

Link Marvel fandom wiki on category is a really awful argument.

I don't think you understand what an argument is?

When it is 1-A, it doesn't really matter if characters are a different universe, it all verges into cross-scaling because cosmologically they are at a high enough scale that it bleeds over to altcon. And wow, big shock. Even if you toss out alt canon, they are STILL hundreds of potential pages scaled off of 6 issues.

Spoiler: So...

They do their research before making the handbooks

They do their research of shoulder-shrugs and plot summations, the guidebooks AREN'T made for power-scalers, they aren't reflective of the greater canon, and they recycle past summations anyways.

When they say "researcher", please actually register these guys are the folks who read Golden Age and Silver Age Captain America comics and give you summaries of every arc. They don't and more importantly, don't HAVE to read or make a cohesive tiering system for you, and the one they have given us, is the Power Grid.

Suig. Why don't you just propose we scale by the Power Grid, if they're this amazing at powerscaling, a niche annoying hobby every writer dreads of?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I don't think you understand what an argument is?

When it is 1-A, it doesn't really matter if characters are a different universe, it all verges into cross-scaling because cosmologically they are at a high enough scale that it bleeds over to altcon. And wow, big shock. Even if you toss out alt canon, they are STILL hundreds of potential pages scaled off of 6 issues.

So great, let's bring the good news MCU is now comics cannon, mangaverse is also scalable, marvel future fight game also cannon, and all the animations made by marvel. For god's sake MCU Scott is probably on the list of magicians. That list is completely bonkers.

They do their research of shoulder-shrugs and plot summations, the guidebooks AREN'T made for power-scalers, they aren't reflective of the greater canon, and they recycle past summations anyways.

Pretty much no author makes their universe for power scalers, they give us the information and see how it fits into the standards we made up.

When they say "researcher", please actually register these guys are the folks who read Golden Age and Silver Age Captain America comics and give you summaries of every arc. They don't and more importantly, don't HAVE to read or make a cohesive tiering system for you, and the one they have given us, is the Power Grid.

Suig. Why don't you just propose we scale by the Power Grid, if they're this amazing at powerscaling, a niche annoying hobby every writer dreads of?

I never said anything about them being power scalers or whatever you are pretending I said, Handbooks are informative, they gather a lot of information and intent that might not have been made clear in the primary material. The wiki has rules for comics scaling and they require more evidence than other normal verses, Handbooks by themselves count as much as a single issue which is very little which is why the magic page uses both primary cannon and handbooks has support. Handbooks usually only show the most important information put together to give the readers the information needed to keep reading without having to read every comics the character shows up, if something appears there is because is important and relevant. The power grid is whatever standards the writers made up, the wiki judges by different standards, it's why being capable of destroying a planet doesn't mean the character will actually be accepted as planet level in this wiki

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly, I understand some of the concerns but I do feel like Marvel is being held to a standard that other verses with similar hax aren't being held to despite many of those verses also not showing their hax with each attack or ability.

As for abilities that don't appear in every issue, if that were true it would mean removing abilities from many series with many episodes or issues where an ability or power is not displayed in every single appearance.

 

[Muteki616]

But I don't really see why we can't just say durability in Marvel gives Magic resistance, depending on the character defending and the spell being used

This makes sense.
I mean the hax that come with base magic are 1-A smurf and still bypass durability even in OP's scans.

So I'm not really following what the point is

I would prefer for metaphysics not being combat applicable

Nothing so far has proved this to be the case, tho..
Magic is still bypassing durability with the scans OP presented

Downgrading the actual "Attack Potency" of the magic smurf is what's being argued here no? not the "hax potency" that comes with it.

though it's not 1-A AP as much as it is 1-A Smurf hax

I thought this was how it was regularly.

Honestly, I understand some of the concerns but I do feel like Marvel is being held to a standard that other verses with similar hax aren't being held to despite many of those verses also not showing their hax with each attack or ability.

As for abilities that don't appear in every issue, if that were true it would mean removing abilities from many series with many episodes or issues where an ability or power is not displayed in every single appearance.

I agree with this.
Everything in this thread seems pretty nitpicky.

The magic page shouldn't be changed, but there should be a note explaining that the hax range, potency, or whatever, is 1-A and not the actual magic AP itself.
which again I was under the impression that's how it was normally.

 

[Tomfer]

The thread is too nitpicky.

Honestly, I understand some of the concerns but I do feel like Marvel is being held to a standard that other verses with similar hax aren't being held to despite many of those verses also not showing their hax with each attack or ability.

As for abilities that don't appear in every issue, if that were true it would mean removing abilities from many series with many episodes or issues where an ability or power is not displayed in every single appearance.

Everything in this thread seems pretty nitpicky.

I share the same sentiment.

 

[OrangeFR]

From my limited knowledge it seems like the point of this is just to make sure that not every single ******* spell has 1-A conceptual manipulation dura neg shit. I lowkey agree with that.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Downgrading the actual "Attack Potency" of the magic smurf is what's being argued here no? not the "hax potency" that comes with it.

Tuats literally not what's being argued at all

The OP purpose is to clarify that not every single freaking magic blast, as basic as it can be, doesn't have 1-A Meta Hax tand won't one shot any character that doesn't scale to this level.