[MCU] Some AP Updates

[NaturalDestroyer]

For Sentry scaling we also have to recognize that Val likely has zero knowledge of Thor's power as of L&T

 

[RoTt35]

Turning things cold, even globally, can last for tens of thousands of years. If its truly never ending, which is a very hyperbolic statement, then it could imply a more total freezing. But the more consistent statements align with long term global winters in my mind.

Multiple sources have the same statement of the never-ending winter, and a guidebook states that the Casket can produce the infinite icy cold of Jotunheim, which persists in an endless winter night

Reading the stuff, the main issue I see with Muspelheim and Nidavellir is that they're dead or dying stars. Nidavellir is so dead they have to restart it after all. It supports a High 6-A to Low 5-B end, but getting it to Tier 4 would require it freezing an active star.

Regarding Muspelheim, doesn't a Sun-like star at the end of its sequence turns into a red giant (which is cooler but also bigger) and then into a white dwarf? Regarding Nidavellir, I calculated the energy required to remove its thermal energy using its stated temperature of 50000 Kelvin and obtained 5-C, although the calc needs to be evaluated first

Maybe the tier of the Casket could be "At least High 6-A/5-C, possibly Low 5-B"?

I disagree with @KLOL506 's logic here. Presumably, they're saying 4-A because of range, but that would only work if the physical space was created and the stars were spawned in at once. With Odin he's just creating a ton of stars at once and then moving them at FTL speeds, which defaults to the GBE of the Stars like with Radahn's calc. In which case it should be High 4-C based on just counting the stars on the panel (4-B requires 5,135 stars to be created).

Well, I guess it depends on how the wiki handles such feats, I don't know if there's any standard regarding that

 

[Hellbeast]

I feel 5-C rather then Low 5-B would work quite well if we dont think the Low 5-B works

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yeah realistically we just need to see Sentry fight Thor or some such

I do know Sentry is likened to Hulk, Thor and Captain Marvel combined so maybe you can back scale that way but it’s very iffy at this point sadly.

Val and Sentry both seem to believe he’s stronger then the Avengers collectively which, he mentions, has to include Thor

The first part is the most important, we need to actually see some stuff happen. Yeah sure, Valentina says he's stronger than the Avengers combined but I don't see her being aware of post-Endgame events and upgrades so we'll have to wait for that.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

For Sentry scaling we also have to recognize that Val likely has zero knowledge of Thor's power as of L&T

Do we even assume she has knowledge about Endgame-level Thor?

 

[Hellbeast]

Do we even assume she has knowledge about Endgame-level Thor?

Battle of Endgame is public knowledge as per Miss Marvel so probably?

 

[RoTt35]

Why are we even talking about Sentry?

 

[Hellbeast]

Because he’s cool

 

[ARCH0207]

I agree that Thor should be High 5-A

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Because he’s cool

But he could be more cool

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

Casket of Ancient Winters
Currently, the Casket of Ancient Winters scales from this common calc at High 6-B+, however that's only for freezing the atmosphere, while freezing the surface/crust is High 6-A and the entire planet (to the core) is Low 5-B. The Casket has the following statements about its power:

• Has the power to send an entire world/planet into an apocalyptic ice age
• Has the power to cause instant and never-ending winters, and could be used to take over the Nine Realms
• According to the script, it would have laid waste to all the Nine Realms. And the novelization states that it would have been used to turn all the realms into frozen ice lands, and had to be locked for the safety of all Nine Realms
• And a variant of Loki threatened to use it to reduce Earth to ash and ice

The Nine Realms includes planets like Earth, but also Muspelheim (a Dyson sphere around a star) and Nidavellir (a neutron star). Freezing a star can range from High 6-A to 5-A+ and up to Low 4-C. And well, if the Casket can freeze a star even minimally, I guess it should have enough range and cold to freeze to the planet's core. Regardless, I don't know which would be the best end to choose, but I think it should definitely be higher than the current one it scales

Usually not a big fan of lowballing but in this case High 6-A seems the most consistent, definitely agree with nuking High 6-B+

L&T Characters
From past threads, we considered than the two Celestials in Omnipotence City shouldn't be comparable to the highest feats performed by those from Eternals (like creating stars and being galaxy-sized), which is fine since the two are featless and we don't know how powerful they are. But at the very least the two Celestials should be High 5-A at bare minimum since that's how they're born, if so I think it would be fair to upscale the L&T characters from their current 5-B+ tier to High 5-A

Sure

Odin's Creation
Currently, Odin creating constellations is tiered as 4-B, which is incorrect since such feats are either 4-C (if the stars were created/moved one by one) or 4-A (if all the stars were created at the same time). Therefore, his Creation tier should be updated accordingly to either end

Not sure which one is better

Some Speed Stuff
I think the speed of Dormammu and Alioth should be changed from Subsonic to Unknown, since it doesn't makes any sense that characters we've never seen in their full might on screen and who can affect/consume infinite-sized universes , with the former essentially having a multiverse as his body and the latter having "Stated to have instantly devoured entire branched realities" as a justification for his current Subsonic speed. Also, it seems that when Alioth was upgraded from "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C" to just Low 1-C, his durability was forgotten to be updated as well, so it should be changed to just Low 1-C too

Sure

• Extra: Vibration Manipulation (Can vibrate her weapons and cause a whole mountain to rumble) for Hela, also her Class M LS should have an "at least" before since she upscales from Thor who already has that

Ok

 

[Legion350]

Casket of Ancient Winters
Currently, the Casket of Ancient Winters scales from this common calc at High 6-B+, however that's only for freezing the atmosphere, while freezing the surface/crust is High 6-A and the entire planet (to the core) is Low 5-B. The Casket has the following statements about its power:

• Has the power to send an entire world/planet into an apocalyptic ice age
• Has the power to cause instant and never-ending winters, and could be used to take over the Nine Realms
• According to the script, it would have laid waste to all the Nine Realms. And the novelization states that it would have been used to turn all the realms into frozen ice lands, and had to be locked for the safety of all Nine Realms
• And a variant of Loki threatened to use it to reduce Earth to ash and ice

The Nine Realms includes planets like Earth, but also Muspelheim (a Dyson sphere around a star) and Nidavellir (a neutron star). Freezing a star can range from High 6-A to 5-A+ and up to Low 4-C. And well, if the Casket can freeze a star even minimally, I guess it should have enough range and cold to freeze to the planet's core. Regardless, I don't know which would be the best end to choose, but I think it should definitely be higher than the current one it scales

L&T Characters
From past threads, we considered than the two Celestials in Omnipotence City shouldn't be comparable to the highest feats performed by those from Eternals (like creating stars and being galaxy-sized), which is fine since the two are featless and we don't know how powerful they are. But at the very least the two Celestials should be High 5-A at bare minimum since that's how they're born, if so I think it would be fair to upscale the L&T characters from their current 5-B+ tier to High 5-A

Odin's Creation
Currently, Odin creating constellations is tiered as 4-B, which is incorrect since such feats are either 4-C (if the stars were created/moved one by one) or 4-A (if all the stars were created at the same time). Therefore, his Creation tier should be updated accordingly to either end

Some Speed Stuff
I think the speed of Dormammu and Alioth should be changed from Subsonic to Unknown, since it doesn't makes any sense that characters we've never seen in their full might on screen and who can affect/consume infinite-sized universes , with the former essentially having a multiverse as his body and the latter having "Stated to have instantly devoured entire branched realities" as a justification for his current Subsonic speed. Also, it seems that when Alioth was upgraded from "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C" to just Low 1-C, his durability was forgotten to be updated as well, so it should be changed to just Low 1-C too

• Extra: Vibration Manipulation (Can vibrate her weapons and cause a whole mountain to rumble) for Hela, also her Class M LS should have an "at least" before since she upscales from Thor who already has that

I'll give my two cents, I guess. I think the Casket has a strong case for High 6-A, but I wouldn't be against a "likely" or "possibly" for Low 5-B. Since the first scan mentions having an effect across an "entire planet" which should include the core. Not definitive enough to give a Low 5-B, but there a little bit supporting that end.

High 5-A is solid for the Love & Thunder cast, considering it's done by a baby Celestial. It also doesn't require scaling the L&T to the 3-B Celestials calcs from Eternals, since we don't have much info on the duo of Omnipotence City Celestials.

Fully onboard with the Dormammu & Alioth speed changes.

I asked the same question about Odin's creation feat tier a while ago and got a few different answers. It's a little confusing, because we see the dust which becomes stars, so I'm unsure how we handle this.

 

[ARCH0207]

Not sure which one is better

The best option is 4-A

 

[Legion350]

Also, Alioth being subsonic is hilarious when we also have this note on its page. So its probably best to have Alioth as Unknown

Note: It would take infinite time with zero progress for Alioth to have ended the Multiversal War if we consider he did this over time. Alioth's statements and lore don't work unless Alioth consumed the infinite amount of realities instantly the way it's stated to have the ability eat "entire branched realities instantly".

 

[ARCH0207]

I'll give my two cents, I guess. I think the Casket has a strong case for High 6-A, but I wouldn't be against a "likely" or "possibly" for Low 5-B. Since the first scan mentions having an effect across an "entire planet" which should include the core. Not definitive enough to give a Low 5-B, but there a little bit supporting that end.

I also propose that the base Thor from 2011, currently 6-B, be upgraded to High 6-A because he withstood Loki's attack twice using Gungir, which is superior to the Casket of Ancient Winters. Therefore, if the Casket of Ancient Winters is upgraded, Gungir will be upgraded to High 6-A, meaning the 2011 Thor will be upgraded to at least High 6-A.

 

[ARCH0207]

What do you think, amigos?

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

I also propose that the base Thor from 2011, currently 6-B, be upgraded to High 6-A because he withstood Loki's attack twice using Gungir, which is superior to the Casket of Ancient Winters. Therefore, if the Casket of Ancient Winters is upgraded, Gungir will be upgraded to High 6-A, meaning the 2011 Thor will be upgraded to at least High 6-A.

Where was it ever said or accepted that Gungir was superior to the Casket? Last I remember Gungir's power also varied depending on its user

 

[Legion350]

What do you think, amigos?

I think that's outside the scope of this CRT.

 

[RoTt35]

I also propose that the base Thor from 2011, currently 6-B, be upgraded to High 6-A because he withstood Loki's attack twice using Gungir, which is superior to the Casket of Ancient Winters. Therefore, if the Casket of Ancient Winters is upgraded, Gungir will be upgraded to High 6-A, meaning the 2011 Thor will be upgraded to at least High 6-A.

Gungnir channels Odin's Odinforce, who is weakened/depowered when he falls into the Odinsleep, so Loki wasn't using Gungnir at its full power. And that isn't related to this CRT

 

[ARCH0207]

Gungnir

Gungnir channels Odin's Odinforce, who is weakened/depowered when he falls into the Odinsleep, so Loki wasn't using Gungnir at its full power. And that isn't related to this CRT

OK

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[RoTt35]

snip

So do you have any thoughts about this?

Multiple sources have the same statement of the never-ending winter, and a guidebook states that the Casket can produce the infinite icy cold of Jotunheim, which persists in an endless winter night

Regarding Muspelheim, doesn't a Sun-like star at the end of its sequence turns into a red giant (which is cooler but also bigger) and then into a white dwarf? Regarding Nidavellir, I calculated the energy required to remove its thermal energy using its stated temperature of 50000 Kelvin and obtained 5-C, although the calc needs to be evaluated first

Maybe the tier of the Casket could be "At least High 6-A/5-C, possibly Low 5-B"?

Well, I guess it depends on how the wiki handles such feats, I don't know if there's any standard regarding that

 

[ARCH0207]

I have a question: can the changes be made now? The staff has already agreed to everything, so I don't see any reason not to make the changes now.

 

[ARCH0207]

I have a question: can the changes be made now? The staff has already agreed to everything, so I don't see any reason not to make the changes now.

Bump

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump

I only see one staff to have voted.

 

[ARCH0207]

I only see one staff to have voted.

And how much is needed?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

And how much is needed?

2.

 

[ARCH0207]

2.

ok, thanks you compadre

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump