- 7,920
- 2,876
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Mr. Burns vs a Goomba
- Thread starter JustSomeWeirdo
- Start date
- 11,901
- 5,468
Hunh. Well, let's see.
....Wow.
I'm surprised to say this, but... I don't think Final Destination is a fair location for this fight.
Standard Battle Assumptions says: Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Both have Standard Melee Range , which is 1 to 3 meters, apparently. So they start 3 meters apart. Where on Final Destination, assuming we mean the Smash stage is important because, well....
1. Goomba's profile says: Intelligence: Below average (Occasionally walks off cliffs) 2. Mr. Burns's profile has this animatio in his gallery. The point of it being he's frail enough to be launched into a wall by THE LIGHT FROM A CAMERA FLASH.
Why is that relevant, you might ask?
Well, let's take a look at what happens when you're on Final Destination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgMTsdLqGH4 N64 Final Destination seems static & safe.
https://youtu.be/gR2IhrNPeOU?t=2m22s In Melee, it seems to travel through some dark tube that lights up or changes to bright colours, then emerges in a cloud-filled area.
https://youtu.be/sQ7EzilotMY?t=38s In Brawl, similar happens. Here, the illumination seems more clear & intense, if brief. (Note, the video loops.)
https://youtu.be/ccekDv1EISk?t=1m23s Smash Wii U's features illumination, too.
https://youtu.be/1oikkQJ2fZQ?t=1m5s & so does that of Smash 3DS's.
In the majority of cases, there's an external light source, & if a camera flash can knock Mr. Burns into a wall, I'd be confident these might be able to at least push him somewhat.
Even if they can't, there may also be the possibility of the stage's movement (Not present in N64 Final Destination.) causing momentum that could push him off; This man has failed to crush an ant, as our gallery on his page shows; I doubt he could resist much force from being on a moving object.
Even if all those AREN'T factors however, it's still not fair, IMHO, because Goombas have been known not to notice Mario even at short distances from him in many games; If the Goomba starts out facing the wrong way, it may not even notice Mr. Burns & simply wander, maybe even walk off the edge.
Even with SBA stating they start willing to kill, does that mean "knows of already & wants to kill" or, "willing to kill Mr. Burns as soon as it perceives Mr. Burns", the latter of which may not happen first. There are a number of directions to face on a circular platform that size where you might not be facing the right way to see someone.
And even if it is aware of & hostile to him at 3 meters away, the possibility of it, as seems common in-character for it to do a hop before it charges or such, & Mr. Burns managing to sidestep might mean it would fall to its death, because unlike Mr. Burns, a Goomba is too unintelligent NOT to walk towards the bottomless pit, much less stop itself charging towards it.
TL;DR - If this were on the Fun & Games board, I might vote Final Destination wins via background light sources & edges leading to bottomless pits. Who it takes down first is dependent on which Final Destination & what stage of travel it's at, I suppose.
I think SBA's central park might be more fair... but then again, that might be ant-infested, & we all know hor Mr. Burns fares against those, so who knows?
....Wow.
I'm surprised to say this, but... I don't think Final Destination is a fair location for this fight.
Standard Battle Assumptions says: Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Both have Standard Melee Range , which is 1 to 3 meters, apparently. So they start 3 meters apart. Where on Final Destination, assuming we mean the Smash stage is important because, well....
1. Goomba's profile says: Intelligence: Below average (Occasionally walks off cliffs) 2. Mr. Burns's profile has this animatio in his gallery. The point of it being he's frail enough to be launched into a wall by THE LIGHT FROM A CAMERA FLASH.
Why is that relevant, you might ask?
Well, let's take a look at what happens when you're on Final Destination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgMTsdLqGH4 N64 Final Destination seems static & safe.
https://youtu.be/gR2IhrNPeOU?t=2m22s In Melee, it seems to travel through some dark tube that lights up or changes to bright colours, then emerges in a cloud-filled area.
https://youtu.be/sQ7EzilotMY?t=38s In Brawl, similar happens. Here, the illumination seems more clear & intense, if brief. (Note, the video loops.)
https://youtu.be/ccekDv1EISk?t=1m23s Smash Wii U's features illumination, too.
https://youtu.be/1oikkQJ2fZQ?t=1m5s & so does that of Smash 3DS's.
In the majority of cases, there's an external light source, & if a camera flash can knock Mr. Burns into a wall, I'd be confident these might be able to at least push him somewhat.
Even if they can't, there may also be the possibility of the stage's movement (Not present in N64 Final Destination.) causing momentum that could push him off; This man has failed to crush an ant, as our gallery on his page shows; I doubt he could resist much force from being on a moving object.
Even if all those AREN'T factors however, it's still not fair, IMHO, because Goombas have been known not to notice Mario even at short distances from him in many games; If the Goomba starts out facing the wrong way, it may not even notice Mr. Burns & simply wander, maybe even walk off the edge.
Even with SBA stating they start willing to kill, does that mean "knows of already & wants to kill" or, "willing to kill Mr. Burns as soon as it perceives Mr. Burns", the latter of which may not happen first. There are a number of directions to face on a circular platform that size where you might not be facing the right way to see someone.
And even if it is aware of & hostile to him at 3 meters away, the possibility of it, as seems common in-character for it to do a hop before it charges or such, & Mr. Burns managing to sidestep might mean it would fall to its death, because unlike Mr. Burns, a Goomba is too unintelligent NOT to walk towards the bottomless pit, much less stop itself charging towards it.
TL;DR - If this were on the Fun & Games board, I might vote Final Destination wins via background light sources & edges leading to bottomless pits. Who it takes down first is dependent on which Final Destination & what stage of travel it's at, I suppose.
I think SBA's central park might be more fair... but then again, that might be ant-infested, & we all know hor Mr. Burns fares against those, so who knows?
- 7,920
- 2,876
- Thread starter
- #3
Well then
Final Destination stomps without even trying ovo
changing it back to SBA
Final Destination stomps without even trying ovo
changing it back to SBA
- 40,476
- 12,956
Final Deatination FRA.
- 11,901
- 5,468
(Sorry about all the words. Hope this helps!)
So yeah. Obviously, we can't say the stage wins the match -can we?- much less one removed from the thread, so I'm going to try & evaluate how the fight between the combatants would go.
SBA states that default starting location is Central Park, New York City. As mentioned above, they seemingly start 3 meters apart. So, let's go back to an earlier question:
Goombas have shown themselves to not be too intelligent or aware. I believe if its back were to Mr. Burns, it might briefly neglect to be hostile to him until it notices him( again). So does the Goomba start:
A. Willing to kill Mr. Burns, but not aware of him?
Or B. Willing to kill, & aware?
It may also be worthwhile to know if it's facing towards him.
Now, let's briefly consider the location. I'd assume Central Park has rocks & trees & water. I doubt Mr. Burns can swim, but can a Goomba? I'm honestly not clear on that. Anyway, to my surprise, frail old man Mr. Burns MIGHT be faster here:
Goomba is "Below Average" in Speed or 0-5 m/s, & Mr. Burns is "Normal Human", or 5-7.7 m/s.
So they're anywhere between equal to Mr. Burns being 7.7 m/s vs Goomba's 0 m/s, depending on how far into which end of their level speed they are.
Best case scenario is (For Montgomery, anyway.) & without going too fractional in numbers (Otherwise I could just put as many 0s as I want & say he's infinitely faster than the Goomba.), Mr. Burns is 7.7 m/s to Goomba's 0.1 m/s, & is thus 77 times faster. Is that a speedblitz? (I can't believe I just said & asked that.)
Is being 7.7 times faster a speedblitz?
In any case, the fact is, Mr. Burns is AT LEAST equal in speed to the Goomba. Apparently.
This is important because he hardly stands a chance unless he abuses his speed & the Goomba's stupidity; IMHO & AFAIK, Goombas often do unidirectional charges, & take some time to stop.
Ergo, Mr. Burns might stand a chance if he can trick the Goomba into running into rocks, trees, bodies of water, bushes, etc. You know, like a Tactical Suicide Boss! ....But with a Goomba.
Unfortunately, there are 2 problems with this:
1. Mr. Burns has been known to try more direct approaches to assault, despite his embarassing feebleness; He has TRIED to take candy from a baby before, very deliberately, & he was the one who tried to crush an ant, which our profile states, both of which he fails to do; Dodging & tricking the Goomba? I'm unsure how in-character it is for him. Then again, maybe his business-y, scheme-y side would support it. Could an expert weigh in on this, please?
2. Mr. Burns barely stands a chance at doing even that. As our profile says for him, his stamina is so low he tires out after running a few meters -say, how far are they starting apart again?- & that he can die of dehydration from sweating a single drop. I think he might collapse before the aforementioned plan works.
Best case scenario, he sidesteps, the Goomba's charge misses, it becomes stunned, & he proceeds to kick it while it's down. But given Mr. Burns's LAUGHABLE offenses, I doubt he would succeed even then.
There is ONE way I could see him getting the kill, though:
Fall on the Goomba.
Frail & weak or not, he is still a man. That much weight with gravity may just be enough to exploit a Goomba's weakness of being flattened to death.
The bad news for Mr. Burns is gravitational forces, & the impact -maybe lessened by the fungi-like body of a Goomba being semi-slowly being crushed- is that this will probably damage him, too. Severely, I might think.
With the "anti-feats" his profile lists, I think Mr. Burns would be left at least temporarily unable to get up, unconscious, injured, &/or dead. I'm unsure if he could lift himself back up. Could he get back up if he fell stomach down? What about backside down?
In the best case scenario -for him-, Mr. Burns falls on the Goomba with little other stamina loss, it is flattened to death, & maybe the bounce helps him back up, & the force of him being bounced back up doesn't hurt him, & he's able to steady himself onto his feet. Then he walks away, astonishingly, victorious.
But otherwise, he's left on the ground, with doubtful ability to get back up. Does that count as incapacitation? Would killing the Goomba with such consequences be a win, a draw, or inconclusive?
Supposedly, Mr. Burns's hate has contributed to his long lifespan, but I'm not sure how to factor that in here.
ON THE GOOMBA'S SIDE OF THINGS:
First off, I don't know if it can see over Central Park's grass, but let's suppose it can.
It charges Mr. Burns, this knocks him over, damages him, it rams him even more, Mr. Burns dies shortly after.
This assumes it succeeds in hitting him, given Mr. Burns is faster, but Mr. Burns is almost certainly crippled (further) if it does, & I'd -incredulously- say the Goomba has more comeback potential here.
At best, he might be able to roll or crawl. Although I'd question how safe -for Mr. Burns- rolling on the ground is, as well as if he wouldn't be in danger from "assault" from local insects in Central Park. He is at least equal or better in speed, but I'm unsure what he can do from a retreat & his stamina's too low anyway.
Basically, in the majority of cases, Mr. Burns either foolishly tries to assault the Goomba in any way but falling on it, or exhausts his pitiable stamina trying to dodge or trick the Goomba into hitting things. Most of which won't really work in the end; In the 1st case because Mr. Burns's offenses are just too low, & in the 2nd case because his STAMINA is too low. Shortly after, in those majorities, the Goomba charges him, this knocks him over, & he's almost certainly doomed from there.
The only hindrances to the Goomba seem to be: Its own stupidity, risk of unidirectional charging into nearby Central Park scenery if Mr. Burns manages to dodge, & the possibility of Mr. Burns falling on it, which he might resort to if he's smart, or do by accident, as the Goomba's probably smaller, & a frail old man might trip over it or scenery, falling onto it anyway.
But again, falling onto the Goomba likely leaves Mr. Burns unable to get up, if not injured -& of questionable ability to get aid- if not dead, given his frailty.
I could definitely see it winning in spite of the chance of those mattering.
I vote Goomba, Low-Medium Difficulty.
So yeah. Obviously, we can't say the stage wins the match -can we?- much less one removed from the thread, so I'm going to try & evaluate how the fight between the combatants would go.
SBA states that default starting location is Central Park, New York City. As mentioned above, they seemingly start 3 meters apart. So, let's go back to an earlier question:
Goombas have shown themselves to not be too intelligent or aware. I believe if its back were to Mr. Burns, it might briefly neglect to be hostile to him until it notices him( again). So does the Goomba start:
A. Willing to kill Mr. Burns, but not aware of him?
Or B. Willing to kill, & aware?
It may also be worthwhile to know if it's facing towards him.
Now, let's briefly consider the location. I'd assume Central Park has rocks & trees & water. I doubt Mr. Burns can swim, but can a Goomba? I'm honestly not clear on that. Anyway, to my surprise, frail old man Mr. Burns MIGHT be faster here:
Goomba is "Below Average" in Speed or 0-5 m/s, & Mr. Burns is "Normal Human", or 5-7.7 m/s.
So they're anywhere between equal to Mr. Burns being 7.7 m/s vs Goomba's 0 m/s, depending on how far into which end of their level speed they are.
Best case scenario is (For Montgomery, anyway.) & without going too fractional in numbers (Otherwise I could just put as many 0s as I want & say he's infinitely faster than the Goomba.), Mr. Burns is 7.7 m/s to Goomba's 0.1 m/s, & is thus 77 times faster. Is that a speedblitz? (I can't believe I just said & asked that.)
Is being 7.7 times faster a speedblitz?
In any case, the fact is, Mr. Burns is AT LEAST equal in speed to the Goomba. Apparently.
This is important because he hardly stands a chance unless he abuses his speed & the Goomba's stupidity; IMHO & AFAIK, Goombas often do unidirectional charges, & take some time to stop.
Ergo, Mr. Burns might stand a chance if he can trick the Goomba into running into rocks, trees, bodies of water, bushes, etc. You know, like a Tactical Suicide Boss! ....But with a Goomba.
Unfortunately, there are 2 problems with this:
1. Mr. Burns has been known to try more direct approaches to assault, despite his embarassing feebleness; He has TRIED to take candy from a baby before, very deliberately, & he was the one who tried to crush an ant, which our profile states, both of which he fails to do; Dodging & tricking the Goomba? I'm unsure how in-character it is for him. Then again, maybe his business-y, scheme-y side would support it. Could an expert weigh in on this, please?
2. Mr. Burns barely stands a chance at doing even that. As our profile says for him, his stamina is so low he tires out after running a few meters -say, how far are they starting apart again?- & that he can die of dehydration from sweating a single drop. I think he might collapse before the aforementioned plan works.
Best case scenario, he sidesteps, the Goomba's charge misses, it becomes stunned, & he proceeds to kick it while it's down. But given Mr. Burns's LAUGHABLE offenses, I doubt he would succeed even then.
There is ONE way I could see him getting the kill, though:
Fall on the Goomba.
Frail & weak or not, he is still a man. That much weight with gravity may just be enough to exploit a Goomba's weakness of being flattened to death.
The bad news for Mr. Burns is gravitational forces, & the impact -maybe lessened by the fungi-like body of a Goomba being semi-slowly being crushed- is that this will probably damage him, too. Severely, I might think.
With the "anti-feats" his profile lists, I think Mr. Burns would be left at least temporarily unable to get up, unconscious, injured, &/or dead. I'm unsure if he could lift himself back up. Could he get back up if he fell stomach down? What about backside down?
In the best case scenario -for him-, Mr. Burns falls on the Goomba with little other stamina loss, it is flattened to death, & maybe the bounce helps him back up, & the force of him being bounced back up doesn't hurt him, & he's able to steady himself onto his feet. Then he walks away, astonishingly, victorious.
But otherwise, he's left on the ground, with doubtful ability to get back up. Does that count as incapacitation? Would killing the Goomba with such consequences be a win, a draw, or inconclusive?
Supposedly, Mr. Burns's hate has contributed to his long lifespan, but I'm not sure how to factor that in here.
ON THE GOOMBA'S SIDE OF THINGS:
First off, I don't know if it can see over Central Park's grass, but let's suppose it can.
It charges Mr. Burns, this knocks him over, damages him, it rams him even more, Mr. Burns dies shortly after.
This assumes it succeeds in hitting him, given Mr. Burns is faster, but Mr. Burns is almost certainly crippled (further) if it does, & I'd -incredulously- say the Goomba has more comeback potential here.
At best, he might be able to roll or crawl. Although I'd question how safe -for Mr. Burns- rolling on the ground is, as well as if he wouldn't be in danger from "assault" from local insects in Central Park. He is at least equal or better in speed, but I'm unsure what he can do from a retreat & his stamina's too low anyway.
Basically, in the majority of cases, Mr. Burns either foolishly tries to assault the Goomba in any way but falling on it, or exhausts his pitiable stamina trying to dodge or trick the Goomba into hitting things. Most of which won't really work in the end; In the 1st case because Mr. Burns's offenses are just too low, & in the 2nd case because his STAMINA is too low. Shortly after, in those majorities, the Goomba charges him, this knocks him over, & he's almost certainly doomed from there.
The only hindrances to the Goomba seem to be: Its own stupidity, risk of unidirectional charging into nearby Central Park scenery if Mr. Burns manages to dodge, & the possibility of Mr. Burns falling on it, which he might resort to if he's smart, or do by accident, as the Goomba's probably smaller, & a frail old man might trip over it or scenery, falling onto it anyway.
But again, falling onto the Goomba likely leaves Mr. Burns unable to get up, if not injured -& of questionable ability to get aid- if not dead, given his frailty.
I could definitely see it winning in spite of the chance of those mattering.
I vote Goomba, Low-Medium Difficulty.
- 186
- 4
Goomba For Reasons Above
EMagoIorSouI
They/Them- 2,170
- 321
Gotta go with the Goomba. Mr. Burns has trouble stepping on a bug enough as it is, a Goomba won't really do him good.
- 7,149
- 1,055
Goomba fra
Dinobot1996
He/Him- 2,438
- 4,399
Goomba for reasons above.
