Murder Drones Downgrades

[OrangeFR]

Agree with everything except how 3-A gets changed, it seems like you should just slap on an ED for it instead.

 

[Kirua29]

I never said its not canon, just that its not literal, which i clearly proved as the calendar is literally proven wrong. Also not every single easter egg is going to be a literal canon detail, as they directly said, some are literal memes. the big crunch happening in 87 days is a silly reference to was that the bite of 87. Taking it literally in verse doesnt line up which i explained in OP.

Ok, so it’s just another fallacy then, saying it’s a joke, so it’s false, is a fellacy.

I don't see how this proves anything youre suggesting?

Well, that’s what I said then: Glitch confirms the canonicity of one of the Easter eggs, and encourages people to look for the other Easter eggs, referring to them as ‘extra details.’ So with this statement, he once again confirms the canonicity of the other Easter eggs.

maybe cuz thats their goal and the entire agenda of this scaling is that the solver is eventually going to become universal (which is clearly isnt showing to be).

episode 7 and 8 already prove a single one to destroy the planet is overtime, otherwise they would have just done it and called it a day. theres nothing suggesting they have something bigger then this, these singularities are the biggest means of destruction and they stop her before she completely do it to their planet beyond repair, thats the main point of the series.

Well then no, since Cyn assimilated Proxima Centauri.

Don't know what youre even talking about here, this planet described to be destroyed like the rest of them and the same fate was to come to copper 9 with the planet being torn apart like earth by the singularity which we see the process beginning in episode 7/8.

Episode 6, in the computer that describes the damage caused by Cyn in the universe, it’s listed that she assimilated Proxima Centauri. It’s a stellar system, and it’s marked in the computer as infected exactly like Earth. So if you use semantic logic, infected = assimilated.

It doesn't even say shes destroying the universe, just "reality is breaking apart" which I already explained why this isn't universal in my OP and literally the next line the narrator says "As the planet crumbles and devours itself". whats happening in episode 8 isnt beyond the planet lmao. Even doll who understands their plan directly confirms this.

So he says exactly: 'the world is ending, the reality is breaking apart.'

The two sentences together once again describe a universe-level destruction.

Then it continues: 'as the planet crumbles and devours itself, it is up to two little robots to defend what they have left, this is the tale of Murder Drones.'

And there he’s describing what’s happening in Episode 8, so the logical conclusion is that the beginning of the sentence describes what would have happened if Cyn had won.

its to heavily contrast with the silly plush video I already explained it in the reply. And once again, the stakes of episode 8 is copper 9, a singular planet.

Well no then, as I just explained and given what he says, it’s more logical to think that he’s describing Murder Drones and the lore. Whether it’s linked to the plush or not doesn’t change anything at all.

 

[Kirua29]

its hax via the flash of light, pk flash is of the same manner. the technique itself is still literally the flash of light though. if it was just the gaze why would they have reflective glasses counter it? and its clearly from the light source on the top of their head, not their gaze/look. standardly looking at them doesnt do anything, its when they specifically do the flash of light that even makes a sound akin to a camera flashing.

tldr, its clearly their light causing the effects directly which they very clearly show

Exactly, they’re not reflective glasses, they’re prescription glasses that V uses, so it’s even worse, she should see the flash even more, unless the glasses prevent the command from getting through.

And besides, that’s not an argument, one detail isn’t equivalent to multiple pieces of evidence. That too is a fallacy, the false equivalence fallacy.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Ok, so it’s just another fallacy then, saying it’s a joke, so it’s false, is a fellacy.

you cant just baselessly throw the word fallacy when you cant even debunk the point which i used to explain alongside a shit ton of context why they are absolutely unreliable

Well, that’s what I said then: Glitch confirms the canonicity of one of the Easter eggs, and encourages people to look for the other Easter eggs, referring to them as ‘extra details.’ So with this statement, he once again confirms the canonicity of the other Easter eggs.

once again not every tiny easter egg is going to be literal extra detail to build the canon lore, they literally say some are just sneaky references and memes.

an unstoppable threat can "take over" the universe yes. the series shows how they do it, and it doesnt involve anything near universal tiering.

Well then no, since Cyn assimilated Proxima Centauri.

its described to be destroyed the same way as earth lmao. singularity and overtime destruction is their method.

Episode 6, in the computer that describes the damage caused by Cyn in the universe, it’s listed that she assimilated Proxima Centauri. It’s a stellar system, and it’s marked in the computer as infected exactly like Earth. So if you use semantic logic, infected = assimilated.

cool they can destroy stars with singularities? I don't see why this matters?

So he says exactly: 'the world is ending, the reality is breaking apart.'

The two sentences together once again describe a universe-level destruction.

this is ignoring the context and the world is very obviously refering to planet in context of the episode. I once again explained this hype up statement which you havent addressed. they are breaking down their planet with these things that have capabilities manipulate reality like code. I hope you know reality is just whats real to someone, their entire worldview and species are going to be destroyed by this planet consuming reality warping eltritch entity. this isn't universal, and the fact that this is supposed to describe episode 8 (in a semi dramatic way) further proves this isnt universal.

Then it continues: 'as the planet crumbles and devours itself, it is up to two little robots to defend what they have left, this is the tale of Murder Drones.'
And there he’s describing what’s happening in Episode 8, so the logical conclusion is that the beginning of the sentence describes what would have happened if Cyn had won.

You're contradicting yourself because youre arguing episode 8 is when they are finally doing the universal stuff but they actually arent?

Well no then, as I just explained and given what he says, it’s more logical to think that he’s describing Murder Drones and the lore. Whether it’s linked to the plush or not doesn’t change anything at all.

hes describing it in a marketing dramatic sense and using other examples literally, infinite is also sonics strongest foe yet putting him over solaris. marketing is dramatic and meant to be attention grabbing, thats the entire point of it. context is what matters.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Exactly, they’re not reflective glasses, they’re prescription glasses that V uses, so it’s even worse, she should see the flash even more, unless the glasses prevent the command from getting through.

They are treated as a reflective shield against this light, without them shes helpless. We see its performed via a flash of light, it comes from a light source, it makes a flash sound, we see tessa flinch to their flash attack, what more do you need.

And besides, that’s not an argument, one detail isn’t equivalent to multiple pieces of evidence. That too is a fallacy, the false equivalence fallacy.

multiple pieces of not just evidence but direct SHOWINGS that its light while your claim is a baseless excuse?

 

[Kirua29]

you cant just baselessly throw the word fallacy when you cant even debunk the point which i used to explain alongside a shit ton of context why they are absolutely unreliable

Yes, I'll say it again if you want: saying that something is false because it's a joke is not an argument but a rhetorical device, so there's nothing to respond to since it's neither proof nor argument, just sophistry.

once again not every tiny easter egg is going to be literal extra detail to build the canon lore, they literally say some are just sneaky references and memes.

No, you're wrong. A large part of the lore is found in the Easter eggs.

an unstoppable threat can "take over" the universe yes. the series shows how they do it, and it doesnt involve anything near universal tiering.

Well, since the solver has already said several times that his goal is assimilation, this Easter egg is consistent with that.

its described to be destroyed the same way as earth lmao. singularity and overtime destruction is their method.

Yes, so we agree, but you can't debunk it by saying it's a long process when there's no timeframe.

cool they can destroy stars with singularities? I don't see why this matters?

Destroying stars and destroying a star system are not the same thing. A star system is made up of several planets with one star.

this is ignoring the context and the world is very obviously refering to planet in context of the episode. I once again explained this hype up statement which you havent addressed. they are breaking down their planet with these things that have capabilities manipulate reality like code. I hope you know reality is just whats real to someone, their entire worldview and species are going to be destroyed by this planet consuming reality warping eltritch entity. this isn't universal, and the fact that this is supposed to describe episode 8 (in a semi dramatic way) further proves this isnt universal.

No, Using the term “world” alongside “reality” and putting the two in the same box with semantic logic, he is only talking about the universe.

You're contradicting yourself because youre arguing episode 8 is when they are finally doing the universal stuff but they actually arent?

No, you just didn't understand what I said. In the process of assimilating Cooper9, after that Cyn would have nothing left to do, because she would have killed all living beings, so then she would have created a big crunch with nothingness. At least, that's what we can understand from all the evidence and the author's statement. I'm not saying that in episode 8 she would be content with destroying a planet...

hes describing it in a marketing dramatic sense and using other examples literally, infinite is also sonics strongest foe yet putting him over solaris. marketing is dramatic and meant to be attention grabbing, thats the entire point of it. context is what matters.

Yes, that's what I'm saying again, what you're saying about the dramatic stance may be true or false, but it doesn't prove at all that what he's saying is false.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Anyway regarding speed feats that can go on the profiles:

V can make sonic booms with their flight speed and they can fight while flying at fast speeds

Sentinals and V react to a missile

Sentinals can react and destroy individual bullets fired at them

Cyn and N react to missiles

V catches a bullet with extreme precision

 

[Kirua29]

They are treated as a reflective shield against this light, without them shes helpless. We see its performed via a flash of light, it comes from a light source, it makes a flash sound, we see tessa flinch to their flash attack, what more do you need.

But that's not how eyeglasses work at all. On the contrary, improved vision should make her more sensitive to the sentinel, whereas when she's not wearing them and she's cross-eyed, she's vulnerable to light when it should be the opposite, so no, it's not the light but a command sent.

multiple pieces of not just evidence but direct SHOWINGS that its light while your claim is a baseless excuse?

No, you didn't understand what I meant. I mean, let's imagine that it's true, and that it's the light that does that, okay? So, a single piece of evidence contradicts several calculations and demonstrations in the series. Therefore, a single element cannot be compared to several others. That's what I meant.

 

[Kirua29]

Anyway regarding speed feats that can go on the profiles:

V can make sonic booms with their flight speed and they can fight while flying at fast speeds

Sentinals and V react to a missile

Sentinals can react and destroy individual bullets fired at them

Cyn and N react to missiles

V catches a bullet with extreme precision

When you take the lightest feats, it's easy too.

I imagine you know this proof, which shows the speed of a pod, knowing that a simple worker drone in episode 3 dodges it during the crash.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Yes, I'll say it again if you want: saying that something is false because it's a joke is not an argument but a rhetorical device, so there's nothing to respond to since it's neither proof nor argument, just sophistry.

I already provided proof proving that the calendar is objectively wrong and you didn't adress it at all, I have nothing else to say because you never refuted anything to begin with. My argument was not just that it was a joke but I also backed it up with a ton of context behind it.

No, you're wrong. A large part of the lore is found in the Easter eggs.

A large part of the lore being in easter eggs /=/ every easter egg is 100% literal, i already explained the issue with the calendar and how more of a meme reference rather then legitimate world building details you find about specific things.

Well, since the solver has already said several times that his goal is assimilation, this Easter egg is consistent with that.

Yeah of planets and stars 1 by 1. nothing new in fiction, and still not universal

Yes, so we agree, but you can't debunk it by saying it's a long process when there's no timeframe.

I'm saying there is no universal destruction, the big crunch is a massively made up thing by taking a meme reference hyper literally despite context literally proving it false.

Destroying stars and destroying a star system are not the same thing. A star system is made up of several planets with one star.

It's likely still 1 by 1 as it was spread merely by the humans going to these systems. They also refer to earth and copper 9 as systems as well. at most this is just range.

No, Using the term “world” alongside “reality” and putting the two in the same box with semantic logic, he is only talking about the universe.

Cyn isn't affecting anything besides the planet in episode 8 so no lmao??

No, you just didn't understand what I said. In the process of assimilating Cooper9, after that Cyn would have nothing left to do, because she would have killed all living beings, so then she would have created a big crunch with nothingness. At least, that's what we can understand from all the evidence and the author's statement. I'm not saying that in episode 8 she would be content with destroying a planet...

Literally nothing suggests this. This is a massive amount of loose strings and conjecture created by that one calendar thats literally wrong. never ever do they ever talk about a big crunch anywere else outside of that poster, why? because its a simple meme reference to the bite of 87, not a literal event thats is narratively happening which would have very much been mentioned if that were the case. The most you can say was they went to different planets and stars 1 by 1 and will continue creating singularities to bring the end to things throughout the universe, just like buu destroying the galaxy one planet at the time.

Yes, that's what I'm saying again, what you're saying about the dramatic stance may be true or false, but it doesn't prove at all that what he's saying is false.

I explained how it can be used in my first op regarding this, and its still not in a universal sense as the context of episode 7 and 8 point to.

 

[Arceus0x]

Agree. Btw i remember I had a calc somewhere that got decent results for N and Uzi speed back in the day.

 

[OrangeFR]

Wait is there a statement about it being a Big Crunch? Cuz if not than 3-A is def not valid.

 

[AlloyAmi]

When you take the lightest feats, it's easy too.

I imagine you know this proof, which shows the speed of a pod, knowing that a simple worker drone in episode 3 dodges it during the crash.

not only would this just be an outlier assuming that calc is 100% accurate, its filled with a bunch of assumptions that we really dont know like the starting point, and ive also seen recalcs of the actual scene get sub rela off site, though id like to get it recalced and approved before i say anything definitive about it. for now though, clear as day outlier, episode 6 is a massive middle finger to ftl narratively

the fact that lasers also are always aimed dodged is also kinda a no no.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Wait is there a statement about it being a Big Crunch? Cuz if not than 3-A is def not valid.

its a random tiny background poster making whats officially stated to be a sneaky meme reference to whats clearly the bite of 87 with a calendar saying "big crunch" in 87 days, though my reply here goes over why this is entirely unreliable and just outright wrong. I simply just brought up that the big crunch isn't something directly acknowledged by characters at all despite it being painted to be this ultimate end goal for this scaling. Like we have statements of cyns end goals of wanting to consume and collapse the planet from other characters be directly acknowledged, even cyn (disguised as tessa) showing their next target of what they have been doing for nearly decades, but thats as far as the stakes go even at their highest with episode 8.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with the OP proposals.

 

[Kirua29]

I already provided proof proving that the calendar is objectively wrong and you didn't adress it at all, I have nothing else to say because you never refuted anything to begin with. My argument was not just that it was a joke but I also backed it up with a ton of context behind it.

What are you talking about? I answered your other arguments, and the rest is "its just a joke, so it's false" Tell me what I didn't answer so we can see.

A large part of the lore being in easter eggs /=/ every easter egg is 100% literal, i already explained the issue with the calendar and how more of a meme reference rather then legitimate world building details you find about specific things.

A large part of the lore can be found in Easter eggs, and at the same time, 99% of Easter eggs can be something related to the lore. Of course, this isn't the exact figure, it's just an example.

Yeah of planets and stars 1 by 1. nothing new in fiction, and still not universal

False, otherwise it would have been marked proxyma A, B, or C and not proxyma system. Proxyma system refers to the entire system, so if the entire system is targeted by semantic logic, it means that the entire system has been assimilated. Otherwise, once again, there would just be the name of one or more destroyed planets, as with Earth.

I'm saying there is no universal destruction, the big crunch is a massively made up thing by taking a meme reference hyper literally despite context literally proving it false.

So you're telling me it's false, because the big crunch thing is a joke without being able to prove that it's a joke.

It's likely still 1 by 1 as it was spread merely by the humans going to these systems. They also refer to earth and copper 9 as systems as well. at most this is just range.

Except that Earth and Cooper9 are planets, whereas Proxima is not a planet.

Cyn isn't affecting anything besides the planet in episode 8 so no lmao??

Well, no, since she was prevented from doing so.

Literally nothing suggests this. This is a massive amount of loose strings and conjecture created by that one calendar thats literally wrong. never ever do they ever talk about a big crunch anywere else outside of that poster, why? because its a simple meme reference to the bite of 87, not a literal event thats is narratively happening which would have very much been mentioned if that were the case. The most you can say was they went to different planets and stars 1 by 1 and will continue creating singularities to bring the end to things throughout the universe, just like buu destroying the galaxy one planet at the time.

You say the calendar is wrong, but you can't prove it... And besides, that's not true. The poster says “fun time before the big crunch.” Because prove to me that it's just a reference to FNAF? And even if it is a reference to FNAF, prove to me that it's false? Because it could be a reference, but it could also be true in the lore.

I explained how it can be used in my first op regarding this, and its still not in a universal sense as the context of episode 7 and 8 point to.

No, once again, even if it were true, it wouldn't prove anything. Something can be a joke or have a commercial purpose while still being true in the lore. The sentence clearly shows that he is talking about the lore, and yes, if he is talking about the lore, it could be with commercial intent, but once again, even if that were the case, it wouldn't prove anything.

 

[Ebihara]

no one is saying nothing new, just wait for staff evaualtion.

 

[Kirua29]

Wait is there a statement about it being a Big Crunch? Cuz if not than 3-A is def not valid.

Basically, it's an Easter egg, and Easter eggs are confirmed as canon by the animators, but some people try to say that it's just a joke without being able to prove it, of course. And obviously omitting the fact that a large part of the lore is found in Easter eggs.

 

[Kirua29]

For now, I'm ending the discussion. You can reply to me, and I'll respond later.

 

[AlloyAmi]

What are you talking about? I answered your other arguments, and the rest is "its just a joke, so it's false" Tell me what I didn't answer so we can see.

you didnt address the the key context proving the calendar is wrong at all, you simply ignored it and moved the goalpost, but the matter of fact is far more then 87 days past since the origin of that poster:

"but those posters at that moment are from the time of when humans were on the planet researching and doing stuff within the cabin fever cathedral, meaning this statement was made before the core of the planet even blew up and before humans on Copper 9 were killed off, with uzi being treated as an infant around this time period. The issue with this? Uzi is currently 18-20 years old based on their classmates, meaning the 87 day big crunch stuff is simply just not true."

This objectively without question should kill any premise of this calendar having any form of reliability and you skipped this entirely. The rest is further context to further kill the idea of this being the end goal that you really didn't address well either.

A large part of the lore can be found in Easter eggs, and at the same time, 99% of Easter eggs can be something related to the lore. Of course, this isn't the exact figure, it's just an example.

Already explained this and i will repeat it yet again. just because they use hidden background details for lore doesnt mean EVERY single one will be. this one is a clear joke, and considering its not even reliable, i have further more reason to say so.

False, otherwise it would have been marked proxyma A, B, or C and not proxyma system. Proxyma system refers to the entire system, so if the entire system is targeted by semantic logic, it means that the entire system has been assimilated. Otherwise, once again, there would just be the name of one or more destroyed planets, as with Earth.

Every single planet is marked as system too, It just means they are grouping them and once again doesn't prove anything beyond range of something thats already overtime for an earth sized planet. it also refers to areas humans went and them spreading it, I have more the reason to assume its still 1 by 1. if a singular planet is overtime and 1 by 1, why wouldnt they be as well.

So you're telling me it's false, because the big crunch thing is a joke without being able to prove that it's a joke.

"fun time to universe big crunch!"

what a serious way to address the supposed big bad goal of the end of the series compared to actual other easter eggs that are actually coherent and have actual foreshadowing and hints that end up actually be rewardingly revealed. notice how literally no one brings this up at all either, but rather just planetary destruction?

Also do you not find it notable that they used big CRUNCH and specifically the number 87? and glitch literally said its a part of a group of memes and references their artists liked to add

Except that Earth and Cooper9 are planets, whereas Proxima is not a planet.

once again it refers to areas humans went and them spreading it, more the reason to assume its still 1 by 1.

Well, no, since she was prevented from doing so.

Nothing suggests her going beyond that, the entire point was saying the planet from the same fate as Earth. Doll directly states thats the main goal and she doesn't want to be used for it, cyn as tessa directly shows the current target. Why didn't it go beyond just copper?

You say the calendar is wrong, but you can't prove it...

already did

And besides, that's not true. The poster says “fun time before the big crunch.” Because prove to me that it's just a reference to FNAF?

crunch, 87. bite of 87. they included that poster in a group of what they consider to be memes and references in a tweet.

And even if it is a reference to FNAF, prove to me that it's false? Because it could be a reference, but it could also be true in the lore.

already showed how the context of the series doesnt point to it and why the calendars wrong and therefore has no basis to be treated as serious considering all the context around this both in verse and in a meta sense

No, once again, even if it were true, it wouldn't prove anything. Something can be a joke or have a commercial purpose while still being true in the lore. The sentence clearly shows that he is talking about the lore, and yes, if he is talking about the lore, it could be with commercial intent, but once again, even if that were the case, it wouldn't prove anything.

doesnt address the point of marketing being dramatic for the sake of hype and appeal at all, and i already explained how it contextually works and how its still not uni. i once again will link my original reply because it still holds up and this argument is just becoming a circular of you repeating yourself.

 

[Monaitama]

I'd also like to say I don't think MFTL ratings make sense at all, the entirety of episode 6 hard debunks this.

the Anti-Drone Sentinels were designed to hunt and destroy any drone, either worker or disassembly drones which we can see by in the start that they were
Obviously these characters should not be too far off as they all fight alongside each other in the finale, but this should make it very clear they are not intended to be faster then light.

That's...a stupid argument.

Do you really think the writers of the show were considering how fast the characters are compared to light when they were making the script?

By that logic, we should downgrade literally every character on this wiki who isn't explicitly stated by the writer to be FTL

 

[AyOgUyS]

So according to you… the big crunch of OUR universe wouldn’t be a universal catastrophe with your logic… No, because it’s a collapse of reality, and therefore of a universe, not a destruction galaxy by galaxy, so it’s nothing alike.



So, you don’t really know if that’s the case and you can’t prove it — that’s basically what you just said.

1. Big Crunch would be universal...just only in terms of Environmental Destruction, not really Attack Potency like a star exploding or smth
2. No, that's not what I said. The Absolute Solver causing the universe to eventually end via causing a Big Crunch isn't Attack Potency in the traditional sense. It would just be 3-A Environmental Destruction over time considering this is the only way the Solver can cause universal destruction in the first place once it causes the Big Crunch there's still like a thousand years until the universe actually collapses in on itself which I doubt is gonna matter in a fight. textbook ED

 

[AyOgUyS]

That's...a stupid argument.

Do you really think the writers of the show were considering how fast the characters are compared to light when they were making the script?

By that logic, we should downgrade literally every character on this wiki who isn't explicitly stated by the writer to be FTL

I mean, don't most of them get blitzed by the robo raptors' light flashes?

 

[AyOgUyS]

"fun time to universe big crunch!"

what a serious way to address the supposed big bad goal of the end of the series compared to actual other easter eggs that are actually coherent and have actual foreshadowing and hints that end up actually be rewardingly revealed. notice how literally no one brings this up at all either, but rather just planetary destruction?


crunch, 87. bite of 87. they included that poster in a group of what they consider to be memes and references in a tweet.

I agree

 

[Monaitama]

I mean, don't most of them get blitzed by the robo raptors' light flashes?

That doesn't disprove my point.

Do you seriously believe the writers considered things like the Drones being FTL and MFTL when they were writing those scenes?

They didn't. They just wrote those scenes without thinking that Powerscalers would watch MD's and make calculations out of them.

It's almost as if they wrote Murder Drones the way they wanted to, and not for powerscaling purposes.

So no, I don't think thats a valid argument because by that logic, we should just nerf every character who isn't stated to be FTL below the SOL ranges.

 

[AyOgUyS]

That doesn't disprove my point.

Do you seriously believe the writers considered things like the Drones being FTL and MFTL when they were writing those scenes?

They didn't. They just wrote those scenes without thinking that Powerscalers would watch MD's and make calculations out of them.

It's almost as if they wrote Murder Drones the way they wanted to, and not for powerscaling purposes.

So no, I don't think thats a valid argument because by that logic, we should just nerf every character who isn't stated to be FTL below the SOL ranges.

That's not my point tho. My point is that the robo raptors' consistently blitz drones with flashes of light from their eyes. Shouldn't this be a clear MFTL anti feat?

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's not my point tho. My point is that the robo raptors' consistently blitz drones with flashes of light from their eyes. Shouldn't this be a clear MFTL anti feat?

That's cause it is, considering there's like, 1-2 feats for MTFL at most and anti-feats.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Like, sure, no author other than me while writing my Undertale AU thinks abt this FTL stuff, but that doesn't make these anti-feats invalid or anything.

 

[AyOgUyS]

That's cause it is, considering there's like, 1-2 feats for MTFL at most and anti-feats.

Don't drones also get hit by arrows and bullets or smth? Not a MD fan but I vaguely remember V or J or idk someone getting impaled by an arrow or smth

 

[Lou_change]

"Yes, I know, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying the destruction of a universe wouldn’t necessarily be little by little, but rather a collapse that would take time, like the big crunch of our universe, which would take several thousand years.

And the difference is?

 

[Monaitama]

Don't drones also get hit by arrows and bullets or smth? Not a MD fan but I vaguely remember V or J or idk someone getting impaled by an arrow or smth

I assume you're talking about J being hit by the pen in ep 1. And my thoughts on using that as an antifeat...idt it works, J doesn't even try to react to it, all she does is just raise a brow and then she gets hit.

Its highly likely she thought it wasn't something to worry about as she just looks more confused than anything on why Uzi threw smth at her.

 

[Monaitama]

Also, I do have to point out that was a throwaway moment. I doubt it should actually be taken seriously considering its clearly a comedic scene especially with how J reacts.

 

[Monaitama]

That's not my point tho. My point is that the robo raptors' consistently blitz drones with flashes of light from their eyes. Shouldn't this be a clear MFTL anti feat?

Literally all instances of the lights "blitzing" the Drones were them being caught off guard...

 

[AlloyAmi]

That's...a stupid argument.

Do you really think the writers of the show were considering how fast the characters are compared to light when they were making the script?

By that logic, we should downgrade literally every character on this wiki who isn't explicitly stated by the writer to be FTL

No??? what is this equivalence? ftl isnt even a consistent rating in the verse and is primarily from a flawed calc and whats blatantly aim dodged lasers.

I'm just pointing out a major narrative plot point to go against the rating of a series thats more consistently treated lower then anything.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Literally all instances of the lights "blitzing" the Drones were them being caught off guard...

yeah this is not the case at all lol, lets go over what happens in the episode

• It blitzed N directly staring at it but lets play devils advocate and lets say this is just N being a dumbass

It ALSO:

• Caused V to rely on lookin away and attempt to fight back with their eyes closed
• In a later scene, V can only fight them by wearing reflective glasses, but when they get destroyed she can no longer look at them.
• Causes Uzi N AND V to all be looking away entirely, because they clearly cannot standardly react to this even after being aware of how it works.

So no this is not an off guard thing at all, its simply faster then what they can react to and blitzes them and they are well aware after they all understand how they work.

 

[Monaitama]

yeah this is not the case at all lol, lets go over what happens in the episode

• It blitzed N directly staring at it but lets play devils advocate and lets say this is just N being a dumbass

It ALSO:

• Caused V to rely on lookin away and attempt to fight back with their eyes closed
• In a later scene, V can only fight them by wearing reflective glasses, but when they get destroyed she can no longer look at them.
• Causes Uzi N AND V to all be looking away entirely, because they clearly cannot standardly react to this even after being aware of how it works.

So no this is not an off guard thing at all, its simply faster then what they can react to and blitzes them and they are well aware after they all understand how they work.

Idk about that one, chief. Considering them seeing the flash is what causes the error in their systems, I just think there's something in the flash that just makes their CPU freeze, hence why they just resort to looking away.

The Drones can react to it, but again, the moment they see the flash or the moment their systems percieve the flash, their internal systems just lock up, rendering them incapable of "reacting".

 

[Mythic381]

That's...a stupid argument.

Do you really think the writers of the show were considering how fast the characters are compared to light when they were making the script?

By that logic, we should downgrade literally every character on this wiki who isn't explicitly stated by the writer to be FTL

You do realize that characters who can't actually keep their FTL speed consistent do indeed get it downgraded whether or not it's explicitly stated? Someone like Stolas got his FTL speed removed as he contradicts that feat later into the show, yet he still had it before without any statement.

 

[Soul80]

I would also like to say that I don't think MFTL ratings make sense at all, the entirety of episode 6 completely disproves that.

The Anti-Drone Sentinel systems were designed to hunt and destroy any drones, both worker and dismantler, and from the start they were clearly good at their job .

And here's the thing, their main method of destruction is to immediately suppress them with a flash of light so that they don't have the opportunity to do anything in response .

• This was shown to lead to a blitz N
• Forced V to look away and try to fight back with his eyes closed.
• In a later scene, V can only fight them by wearing reflective goggles , but when they are destroyed, she can no longer look at them.

I disagree with most of these arguments. tbh
Since it has already been shown that WD and DD can react to Sentinel flashes before it reach them , the main explanation I think why they haven't reached them based on that to disable/freeze them, you would Frist target them in their vision area (WDS and DD monitors) for Sentinel flashes to reach them, as we know.
In these screenshots , we can clearly see that the Sentinel flash was on their vision area and was already heading towards Uzi and N, but didn't freeze them , because they blocked the view before it reached them, same example with V, but at point blank blank.

I also want to say that N and WD blitzes by flashes that we we saw in the series are not actually anti-feats".
N simply didn't know the flash could freeze him or harm him, he simply had no knowledge on Sentinels and their abilities, so trying to claim that N didn't block the flash is actually a counter-feat because he didn't even know about them is false.
Here's an example of N not dodging Uzi's Ruilgun because he didn't know about it, while J already dodged her Ruilgun beam ( did I remind that the same Ruilgun is a magnetic photon convergent?)

Another example is that WD can also be blitzed by flashes, but this is also not true.
She was too scared to think straight when another WD was year apart in front of her (not to mentionWDs aren't immune to fear, it has been shown twice that WDs didn't try to do anything when they were on the verge of death).

 

[Kirua29]

Full Debunk​

I'm going to make several long posts that will debunk absolutely everything I saw wrong in this thread.​

Of course, you can reply, I’ll read, but I won’t answer in return, I no longer feel like getting into a never-ending debate like there was a few days ago, so I'm sending out a big group message. Respond if you agree or disagree, or don't respond at all, I don't care either way. I’ll wait for the admins' decision on whether or not the downgrade should go through.​

I’ll start with the OP.​

---

SUMMARY OF ACTUALLYSPACEMAN’S INITIAL ARGUMENTS​

• You can’t evaluate a gravitational wave without precise numbers.​

• The "87" calendar doesn’t prove they’re days.​

• If the universe is destroyed over time, it’s not Universe Level.​

• The world's disintegration isn’t necessarily AP.​

• No one dodges the tendrils, so no scaling.​

• The characters dodge the missile, not the explosion.​

• Uzi sees the laser’s light first → anticipation → not a real feat.​

• We don’t know the timeframe → the planetary durability feat in episode 7 is invalid.​

As for the gravitational waves feat, it’s far too vague and unclear to be included in AP.

The Null Point is 4× farther than Proxima Centauri, which makes it 18.05 light-years away.​

Gravitational waves detectable over such a distance can only be generated by massive events.​

​

This proof is used by the Murder Drones scalers as additional evidence that the Null is a singularity, not as direct proof of destructive power. But logically, it's normal for this to be in AP, because gravitational waves accompany Null, and Null is an AP and DC.​

I’m not sure how this was accepted, when it’s clearly a feat that would occur over time rather than instantly. The number 87 is presented as a time frame, but it’s never clarified whether that refers to days, years, or something else entirely. On top of that, the numbers are faded, suggesting they haven’t been updated or corrected recently. Overall, the feat is far too vague to justify a Universe-level statistic and should simply be removed.

It’s a calandar countdown meant to warn about an event. In this case, the end of the world.​

​

And this kind of calendar (as shown in the visual proof) counts in days, not months and certainly not years. This means that Cyn can create a Big Crunch in 87 days, a detail hidden for the viewer that makes us understand how long it would take Cyn to assimilate the universe.​

​

If a Character can destroy a galaxy in a second, versus someone who can destroy it in 100 years, one of them is clearly stronger than the other.

Also causing the big crunch would be environmental destruction, which again, she can't do whenever she wants, so it's really irrelevant.

There is no official time limit standard to qualify a Universe Level attack.​

Even if it takes 87 days, the nature of the threat remains universal, so the AP is still valid.​

​

Cyn won’t destroy the universe “little by little” in the literal sense.​

Yes, she starts by destroying the human colonies for fun in the first part, but then her goal becomes universal assimillation, after she has finished playing with her food, she will assimilate the universe as desired by the absolute solver, and the assimilation will take 87 days.​

​

The calendar marked with 87 days is clearly not there to tell us how many days until the collapse begins, but it is clearly there to tell us how long it would take for Solver to destroy the universe ONCE IT BEGINS. It has not yet begun.​

​

Liam Vicker confirmed that the Absolute Solver would destroy the universe if she won, confirming that Cyn intended to destroy the universe and reality in order to assimilate it.​

​

(The world is ending, reality is breaking apart as the planet crumbles and devours itself. It is up to two little robots to defend what they have left. This is the tale of Murder Drones. "liam vicker")​

​

“The world is ending, reality is breaking apart” = absolute destruction of the universe.​

It’s semantic logic: the sentence is framed as the end of the world.​

​

To those who say “it’s just an ad, don’t take it seriously”:​

The beginning of the quote is actually Liam/Glitch describing what happens in episode 8, and in that same sentence “the world is ending, reality is breaking apart,” he explains what would have happened if Cyn had won.​

​

So this video should be taken as confirmation:​

The intent was to show that the Absolute Solver is a universal threat and that the statements surrounding it are meant to be taken literally.​

​

So how can we be sure that she can really do it? Well, first of all thanks to all this evidence, but above all thanks to the most important proof: the fact that we know the Absolute Solver is linked to Albert Einstein’s equations, it’s the fundamental form of general relativity, used to describe the curvature of space-time. If this equation is solved under certain conditions, such as negative energy density or a reversal of expansion, it leads to models of a Big Crunch or cosmic collapse.​

So, this is clearly a reference to extreme gravitational or universal-scale destruction.​

This is confirmed by all the other easter eggs, which, as a reminder, are canon.​

• What the Solver says​

• What Cyn says​

• The calendar and the poster​

• Albert Einstein's field equations are linked to the solver.​

• The hidden message in the Null from episode 8​

• The quote from the creator​

Characters have been ranked Universe Level for far less than this.​

The Solver erases reality, time, the world.​

It’s a complete disintegration of the universe.​

​

To those who say it’s just environmental destruction, I’ll remind you of the VSBW definition:​

“Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying a universe or space-time continuum, or affecting universal-scale structures such as the space-time continuum of a universe, are placed at 3-A.”

So this is AP.​

​

Firstly, why is anyone scaling to Cyn’s tendrils? Only Cyn has ever been shown to possess them, and she never actually uses them offensively against another character. That means no one else should be scaling to their speed.

As for the tendrils, it's a calculation of the tendrils’ speed, which confirms the tendrils can strike at that speed, just like the Worker Drones since they dodged the arrival of that ship, and just like the Murder Drones who can pilot that ship.​

​

Then there’s the supposed “outrunning missile explosions” feat, which is absolutely not what’s happening in this video. The characters are simply running away from something exploding behind them. They aren’t outrunning the explosion at all in fact, they’re practically stationary compared to how quickly the blast spreads.

I concede this point, after reviewing the scene properly, it’s true that it’s not clear, if he dodges the explosion or the missile.​

​

There's also this laser dodging feat, which should be invalid. Uzi clearly notices the laser coming before it’s even fired, thanks to the visible light buildup. That means it’s a reaction to a visual cue, not an actual speed feat against a laser beam.

After watching the scene in slow motion, I confirm that Uzi ducks before the laser strike.​

But I also thought: we don’t know what happened on J’s side, she could’ve fired earlier, and it just wasn’t shown.​

​

Then I had an idea. Listen in slow motion the scene carefully, you can try it yourself.​

At the beginning, there’s a yellow light, and Uzi realizes J is about to fire, so far so good.​

​

​

And then a sound can be heard, the laser sound, which you can hear from this point. We can clearly hear the attack at 23:03:10. Yes, I used editing software to analyze the scene in depth.​

​

But I can already see the nitpickers saying, “Yeah, but what we hear could very well be the sound of the weapon charging,” except that in the first image we see, there is no sound, even though we can already see the light, and then we hear the sound of the laser, except that usually we hear it from the start. so it seems that the animation team decided that if they put the sound in from the start, people wouldn't understand that Uzi dodged the attack at the last second.​

​

​

So the shot happens before Uzi moves, we can hear it, and then she ducks to dodge the laser. In the image above, this is where we hear the sound of the shot.​

​

​

So yes, this is indeed an FTL feat.​

​

Lastly, covering durability, we have the feat of Uzi surviving the destruction of a planet. I’m not sure why or how this calc was accepted when the timeframe being used is based entirely on a fade-to-black jump cut. Without any direct indication, the event could have taken seconds, minutes, or even longer we simply don’t know. Assuming a timeframe based solely on a jump cut is unreasonable.

Yes, here I agree with the OP, the calculation is clearly incorrect.​

​

But again, even if the calculation tied to the feat is wrong, the feat itself is still valid, since we can see when Uzi falls, we see yellow lightning behind her.​

​

​

And a white fade, which in cinematography is used to symbolize an explosion.​

​

​

So yes, the calc is wrong, but the feat is real.​

Not everything needs a calculation.​

​

​

---

Now, it’s AlloyAmi’s turn.​

---

SUMMARY OF ALLOYAMI’S ARGUMENTS:​

• Characters can’t dodge the Sentinel’s flash.​

• The Big Crunch is just a joke, a meme referencing the Bite of 87.​

• The "Proxyma system" just refers to a planet in Proxima Centauri.​

• Cyn is just going to destroy planets one at a time, not a universal destruction.​

• Drones react to missiles, produce sonic booms, and V catches a bullet, so they’re not MFTL.​

• Liam’s statement is just a commercial phrase.​

​

​

the Anti-Drone Sentinels were designed to hunt and destroy any drone, either worker or disassembly drones which we can see by in the start that they were very clearly good at their job.

And here's the thing, their main lead method in their method to destroy them is by immediately bootlooping them with a flash of light so they have no chance to do anything back.

• This is shown to have blitzed N
• Caused V to rely on lookin away and attempt to fight back with their eyes closed
• In a later scene, V can only fight them by wearing reflective glasses, but when they get destroyed she can no longer look at them.

Obviously these characters should not be too far off as they all fight alongside each other in the finale, but this should make it very clear they are not intended to be faster then light.

​

I'm changing my angle of attack. Even though I still think what I said makes sense, I can contradict it even more simply.​

The scene where N doesn't dodge the flash is logical; he wasn't expecting it, he didn't think a simple flash would do that, which is the same reason he didn't dodge the Uzi weapon; he probably thought he was untouchable. So it's not an anti-feat, then.​

​

The fact that V closes her eyes is only logical. Her eyes are of little use to her anyway, given that she has serious vision problems, so closing them doesn't really put her at a disadvantage since she can't see anything to begin with. Closing her eyes is therefore more advantageous than leaving them open, so no matter how fast she is, it proves nothing.​

​

Now I'm going to do the opposite and prove to you that she can dodge them. They've already done it plenty of times. In fact, in the scene you're talking about, where she closes her eyes after her glasses are broken, well, no, she keeps them open cautiously and closes them when she's flashed to avoid the flash, even though she can't see much to begin with.​

​

The evidence that he dodges them without any problem is in this link.​

​

The first scan comes from a poster that says time to universe big crunch that is seen in the background here. Not only was it officially stated to be part of a series of subtly added memes/sneaky references (clearly being a joke on "WAS THAT THE BITE OF 87!??", crunch, 87), but those posters at that moment are from the time of when humans were on the planet researching and doing stuff within the cabin fever cathedral, meaning this statement was made before the core of the planet even blew up and before humans on Copper 9 were killed off, with uzi being treated as an infant around this time period. The issue with this? Uzi is currently 18-20 years old based on their classmates, meaning the 87 day big crunch stuff is simply just not true.

​

Glitch confirmed the canonicity of the Easter Eggs., and encourages people to look for the other Easter eggs, referring to them as ‘extra details.’ So with this sentence he once again confirms the canonicity of the other Easter eggs.​

And just because it’s humorous doesn’t mean it’s not canon. Furthermore, in a cryptic work, certain details of the lore are hidden in Easter eggs, such as the fact that the cathedral was already there when the scientists arrived, or that dogs have become immortal and sent to another planet. So the fact that this is a reference to the meme, the bite of '87, does not invalidate anything.​

​

​

The calendar marked with 87 days is clearly not there to tell us how many days until the collapse begins, but it is clearly there to tell us how long it would take for the solver to destroy the universe ONCE IT STARTS. It hasn't started yet, and the second poster is clearly there to confirm the canonical nature of the big crunch, because the second poster, you can't tell me it's a joke or a meme, there's no reference to the second poster, so when you take the two together it shows that even if it's a meme, well, it's canon. And the poster is not there to be a logical element, but an element to inform the viewer how long assimilation would take.​

​

All this to say that the calendar is not linked to a chronology, but to showing us what would happen if she won. Because Liam's goal is not to have a bad ending, so he still wants people to understand that the solver will destroy the universe if he wins, but he will never show it, because that's not the ending he wants.​

​

Every single planet is marked as system too, It just means they are grouping them and once again doesn't prove anything beyond range of something thats already overtime for an earth sized planet. it also refers to areas humans went and them spreading it, I have more the reason to assume its still 1 by 1. if a singular planet is overtime and 1 by 1, why wouldnt they be as well.

Earth is referred to as a "system", just like Proxyma and Cooper9.​

So there are two logical explanations:​

​

First explanation: Earth and Cooper9 are planets, but Proxyma isn’t exactly a planet.​

The planets of the Proxima system are called Proxima A, B, C, but here, it's just written “Proxyma”​

So logically, “Proxyma system” refers not to a planet, but to Proxima Centauri itself.​

​

And yes, it destroyed the entire system at once, not one by one. Why do I say that? Well, it's simple: otherwise, it would be the names of the planets that would be written Proxima A, B and C not “proxima system.”​

Second explanation: You conveniently ignore the calculation that already exists, the one proving that the Null that destroyed Earth (a Big Crunch, by the way) also destroys the entire Solar System.​

​

Because unlike a black hole, a Big Crunch doesn’t "pull", it collapses.​

So the solar system collapsed afterward, logically.​

​

But probably a little later, because it's a process that can take a while, everything will collapse at once, but with time, and to tell me that it's not a solar system level, it would be like telling me that a bomb in a building is not building level because it doesn't explode immediately or that the bomb will destroy all the offices one by one and therefore not building level.​

​

Thus, in the computer, when it says "Earth system", it's referring to the Solar System, which makes perfect sense.​

And therefore, once again, "Proxyma system" refers to the Proxima Centauri system, and Cooper9, in some images, clearly has a star and a sun, so that’s a system too.​

​

All this follows simple semantic logic.​

​

once again it refers to areas humans went and them spreading it, more the reason to assume its still 1 by 1.

Let’s clarify Cyn’s objective:​

First, it’s to personally kill all the human colonies for fun, that’s why she only destroys “small places” at first instead of nuking everything.​

Then, to kill Uzi, also for fun.​

​

Then, once she’s done and has nothing entertaining left, what would be left to do?​

As the Absolute Solver, she would’ve likely assimilated the universe, because that’s all that’s left.​

I’m simply describing what Cyn has been doing since the beginning, and what she’s expected to do as the Solver. ​

​

Based on the information we have, it's clear that the destruction would have occurred after Cyn was done playing cat and mouse with the others. At that point, she would begin assimilating the universe by destroying it and collapsing its reality, which is exactly what a Big Crunch does: a total breakdown of reality itself.​

​

not only would this just be an outlier assuming that calc is 100% accurate, its filled with a bunch of assumptions that we really dont know like the starting point, and ive also seen recalcs of the actual scene get sub rela off site, though id like to get it recalced and approved before i say anything definitive about it. for now though, clear as day outlier, episode 6 is a massive middle finger to ftl narratively

the fact that lasers also are always aimed dodged is also kinda a no no.

Yes, the travel duration is speculative, but whether it took a day, a week, a month, or even a year, it remains an MFTL feat.​

​

And like with all the other points, if it’s consistent with the series, it’s not an outlier and not just for narative.​

And obviously, the speed doesn’t match what’s shown in the animation, because it’s impossible to animate something moving faster than light.​

​

But even in the lore, you don’t even need a calc:​

​

We know Cyn left Earth to reach Cooper9 (18 light-years away) at the end of episode 2 (after J’s death), and she arrives at the end of episode 3.​

​

So you don’t need to be a genius to see that it didn’t take a year.​

​

And if you say: “But we see the pods arrive in episode 1”​

That’s an easy-to-prove retcon: there are three pods, yet only two characters.​

So clearly, they originally planned a third character and changed the script between episodes 1 and 2 (which came out a year apart).​

​

So that scene can’t be taken into account.​

​

​

hes describing it in a marketing dramatic sense and using other examples literally, infinite is also sonics strongest foe yet putting him over solaris. marketing is dramatic and meant to be attention grabbing, thats the entire point of it. context is what matters.

​

In this sentence, this person is referring to Liam Vicker's phrase “destroy the world and tear reality apart.”​

Even if that sentence has marketing intent, it proves nothing, because it can still be true and have a commercial purpose.​

​

And since other pieces of evidence support Liam Vickers' statement, such as:​

• What the Solver says​

• What Cyn says​

• The calendar and the poster​

• Albert Einstein's field equations are linked to the solver.​

• The hidden message in the Null from episode 8​

• The quote from the creator​

All of this has been pointing in one direction from the very beginning. But you just choose not to see it.​

​

​

Conclusion: Almost all feats are still valid, I have debunked all anti-feats regarding speed, and I believe I have explained with surgical precision why cyn is uni level. Now I will eagerly await the decision of an admin, hoping that my message will be read. Best regards to you all.​

 

[Kirua29]

Agree with the OP on all fronts.

Please, before making any decision, could you read my debunk?

The one just above this message, thank you.