OPM additions + scaling revision

[MrTayman616]

It could also just be their word choice for it.

Pressure can also be defined as: "The use of persuasion, influence, or intimidation to make someone do something."

So I interpret it as: "I can tell this guy is strong, so I feel like he's intimidating me into not fighting him."

Orochi didn't understand the reason for the pressure, same for Garou. They were just like "What was that pressure"

Only Carnage Kabuto was aware of it based on feeling a pressure.

 

[FinePoint]

Orochi didn't understand the reason for the pressure, same for Garou. They were just like "What was that pressure"

Only Carnage Kabuto was aware of it based on feeling a pressure.

Because they don't believe he's strong, but their senses are telling them he is.

So they're asking what it is because the obvious answer isn't something they're willing to accept.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Well if Saitama had a supernatural fear aura, you'd think that a vast majority of people he fights, who are far weaker than him, and probably don't have resistance to it, would feel it.

Instead, we only ever hear of it from other powerful people who likely have enhanced senses and some ability to gauge the fact that he is far stronger than he appears.

Like I said, he only exerts that pressure when he's mad/pissed off. Here with Garou is the perfect example. Garou hadn't recognized his strength or felt his pressure until he got mad. Garou mistook him for some fodder. If it was just Garou's enhanced senses, he would've picked up on it immediately. Same goes for the other situations, Saitama was mad that his house got destroyed when he confronted Orochi, and was mad at Flashy Flash for attacking him.

Also what are your thoughts about a Possibly rating for Limited Power Nullification based on this:

For Limited Power Nullification

The proposal is that we give limited power null for the use of Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist(WSRSF) because it nullifies attacks when deflecting/redirecting. Power Null is Nullifying abilities, so if WSRSF nullifies attacks when deflecting, it should be a form of limited power null.

There are statements about the WSRSF being able to nullify attacks; from Tanktop Master and from The Databook

These were the arguments made for WSRSF being able to nullify attacks:
Bang used it to deflect Rover’s extreme heat bombs without getting his hands burned—The counter to this was that Bang simply deflected it by tapping it for a millisecond at high hypersonic speeds, moving so fast that the heat couldn’t transfer in time and burn his hand

Bang used it to deflect The Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist(RASRF), which is a technique that sends shockwaves throughout the body and reduces all the bones to dust upon contact—The counter to this was that Bang never actually touched Garous hand, but instead was deflecting the attacks by touching his arm, like shown in a previous battle(Though he’s also been shown to touch the hand when deflecting).(A misconception I see is that Bang took damage from the RASRF due to this scan, but this scan comes from him talking about the Explosive Heart Release Rist, which was Bang's ultimate technique that pushes the body beyond its limits. Bang never claimed to have taken damage from the RASRF)

Garou gets pierced by golden balls projectiles, leaving him with visible cuts, but can deflect those very same projectiles with the WSRSF and not even get scratched.

Garou, who was affected by hot water, could deflect Showerhead's "unknown chemicals," which included hot water, sulfuric acid & Liquid Glue.

It’s also used to deflect elements like water & lightning without damage

Now, sure there are some counterarguments that could be possible(though I doubt ONE was out here thinking about how fast heat takes to transfer and whatnot), but the arguments for power null can be just as possible

Bang taking damage from the shockwaves of the Explosive Heart Release Fist would simply mean that it resists the WSRSF’s power null, and should be given resistance to limited power null IMO. After all, when a character has statements and feats supporting power nullification, and another character is unaffected by it, we don't see that as a disproval of the power nullification itself—but rather as evidence that the unaffected character has resistance to it.

At least, I believe a possible rating for limited power null should be given.

 

[FinePoint]

Like I said, he only exerts that pressure when he's mad/pissed off. Here with Garou is the perfect example. Garou hadn't recognized his strength or felt his pressure until he got mad. Garou mistook him for some fodder. If it was just Garou's enhanced senses, he would've picked up on it immediately. Same goes for the other situations, Saitama was mad that his house got destroyed when he confronted Orochi, and was mad at Flashy Flash for attacking him.

I mean it makes sense he'd be better at intimidating people while pissed off. I feel like there's not a lot of evidence it's a supernatural aura, but this does sort of answer my biggest complaint about it being inconsistent.

So I'd be fine with a "possibly" I think.

Also what are your thoughts about a Possibly rating for Limited Power Nullification based on this:

Well we have to be careful because "nullify" is actually a very vague word in general, but on this wiki we mean something pretty specific by it.
Generally we use it when an ability is completely cancelled out such that it has no effect, but in this case it still has an effect it's just redirected, which fits more with Attack Reflection.

So, by our definition, it doesn't really make sense for him to nullify the attack and then redirect it. In that case the person it was redirected to would feel nothing, since it was nullified.

And that's not me just avoiding an upgrade. I think based on our definitions, Attack Reflection here isn't just more accurate but actually more powerful.

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump
I hope that CRT doesn't end up being abandoned like so many others

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Farfetchedx]

I mean it makes sense he'd be better at intimidating people while pissed off. I feel like there's not a lot of evidence it's a supernatural aura, but this does sort of answer my biggest complaint about it being inconsistent.

So I'd be fine with a "possibly" I think.

Well we have to be careful because "nullify" is actually a very vague word in general, but on this wiki we mean something pretty specific by it.
Generally we use it when an ability is completely cancelled out such that it has no effect, but in this case it still has an effect it's just redirected, which fits more with Attack Reflection.

So, by our definition, it doesn't really make sense for him to nullify the attack and then redirect it. In that case the person it was redirected to would feel nothing, since it was nullified.

And that's not me just avoiding an upgrade. I think based on our definitions, Attack Reflection here isn't just more accurate but actually more powerful.

Are these fine?

Genos
Fusionism (Fused with Drive Knight )
Bang
Information Manipulation (Can transfer his thoughts through his fists. Only those with exceptional talent can hear it)
Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with energy-based attacks. Superior in skill to heroes who could deflect Homeless Emperor’s energy spheres)
Saitama
resistance to:
Pressure Points (Can withstand Garou's Fist Of Flowing Water Crushed Rock which incapacitates by hitting pressure points)
Electricity Manipulation (Unfazed by Garou’s electric attacks)

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Are these fine?

Genos
Fusionism (Fused with Drive Knight )

Wasn't Drive Knight who combined with Genos, though?

Bang
Information Manipulation (Can transfer his thoughts through his fists. Only those with exceptional talent can hear it)

That doesn't fit Information Manipulation, none of the types.

I don't think if it can be put in any ability that isn't Martial Arts tbh

Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with energy-based attacks. Superior in skill to heroes who could deflect Homeless Emperor’s energy spheres)

Idk standards about this. So I cannot say anything

Saitama
resistance to:
Pressure Points (Can withstand Garou's Fist Of Flowing Water Crushed Rock which incapacitates by hitting pressure points)

Imo, the explanation should include when both Garou and Saitama were similar in strength, so it's not discarded as a durability feat and nothing else.

 

[FinePoint]

Fusionism (Fused with Drive Knight )

Yes.

Bang
Information Manipulation (Can transfer his thoughts through his fists. Only those with exceptional talent can hear it)

No.

Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with energy-based attacks. Superior in skill to heroes who could deflect Homeless Emperor’s energy spheres)

Yes.

Saitama
resistance to:
Pressure Points (Can withstand Garou's Fist Of Flowing Water Crushed Rock which incapacitates by hitting pressure points)

Yes.

Electricity Manipulation (Unfazed by Garou’s electric attacks)

I'm not sure this is actually electricity, but hasn't he tanked electricity elsewhere before?

 

[Farfetchedx]

hasn't he tanked electricity elsewhere before?

Not that I'm aware of

 

[FinePoint]

Not that I'm aware of

That's surprising. Well, I'm sure he will at some point.

Otherwise, it's not clear that's actually electricity and not just some special effects of the fight.

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have doubts if Genos "Melting someone from the inside out" would qualify as durability negation, but most of this looks good and otherwise share similar views as FinePoint

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[FinePoint]

Bump

Only one more staff vote is needed, so I'll go ahead and ping my minions.

Also, the Immortality Type 2 threads fell flat, and I don't plan on readdressing the issue until other staff threads are resolved, so I'll approve that too for now.

@KingTempest @Catzlaflame @Duedate8898 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Mr. Bambu @Armorchompy

 

[Damage3245]

Is the current OP the most up to date version as in all of those things there are still being proposed for?

 

[FinePoint]

Is the current OP the most up to date version as in all of those things there are still being proposed for?

Honestly, I don't know.

I also approved a different CRT adding abilities, I think it had some overlap.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Only one more staff vote is needed

Wait what? I thought 2 was enough. I already applied most of the changes. Guess I'll undo them

Is the current OP the most up to date version as in all of those things there are still being proposed for?

Yes. Anything that I may have suggested that isn't in the OP is out of the proposal

 

[FinePoint]

Wait what? I thought 2 was enough. I already applied most of the changes. Guess I'll undo them

For very popular verses you need three.
Given OPM has the largest discussion thread on the site, I think it definitely qualifies.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes. Anything that I may have suggested that isn't in the OP is out of the proposal

Thanks. I'll give my thoughts on the OP soon.

 

[Damage3245]

Attack Reflection & Limited Damage Boost (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist allows the user to deflect incoming attacks or redirect them with double the force)

This is fine.

Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into their fists)

I don't agree with this. It's Bang mimicking the flow of energy in nature with his martial arts, not Bang actually manipulating energy itself.

Superhuman Precision (Can pierce the smallest vital points with unmatched accuracy)
Aura & Fear Manipulation (Has an aura that can make even Tatsumaki flinch)
Extrasensory Perception (Sensed a foreign evil inside Awakened Garou. Knew that Bomb's fist had no killing intent. Superior to Smile Man, who is able to sense he presence of others)
Accelerated Development (Claimed that he gets stronger while fighting)
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages while fighting Garou)
Social Influencing (Reputation; Is respected by his pairs, and acknowledged as one of greatest Martial Artists in the world)
Supernatural willpower (Through sheer willpower, he survived exposure to Garou's radiation longer than anyone not fully resistant to it, despite being the closest) He should also get OPM's supernatural willpower since he lasted longer than even those with it.
Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with energy-based attacks. Superior in skill to heroes who could deflect Homeless Emperor’s energy spheres)

This is all fine.

Regeneration over an unknown period of time (Low; Regenerated from the scratches of Octopus Claw Man, which left King with permanent scars)

I guess this is fine but it being an unknown period of time makes it dubious.

Social Influencing (Influenced Genos into becoming his disciple. Motivated insecure individuals like Fubuki and Glasses to face their challenges and become better heroes. Convinced Tatsumaki to allow the the Blizzard Group to continue operating. Though initially unwilling, Tatsumaki went through with a hero recruitment commercial after recalling his words.
Immense Pain Tolerance (Endured extreme pain from his intense training regimen, to the point that it nearly killed him. Unfazed by the injuries he suffered from Octopus Claw Man. Withstood strikes from monsters like Crablante and Personification Of A Light Pull Cord)
Limited Attack Reflection with his head (Saitama’s head reflects light-based attacks, thanks to its baldness) There should be a note that says: His baldness makes his head so slippery that it resists sticky and gooey substances, as seen here.
Fear Manipulation (When angered, Saitama exudes an overwhelming pressure that instills fear in others)
resistance to:
Pressure Points (Can withstand Garou's Fist Of Flowing Water Crushed Rock which incapacitates by hitting pressure points, even when Garou matched him in strength)

This is all fine.

Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)

I don't think this really counts. He is targeting a weakness of these individuals by hitting their insides; a persons insides tend to be more vulnerable than their exterior.

Immortality (Type 2; Can keep fighting even with his body cut in half or limbs torn off)
Aura (His Lightning Drill Cannon engulfs him in a dragon-shaped electric aura)
Shockwave Creation (Blew away a swarm of mosquitos that surrounded him)
Limited Data Manipulation & Memory Manipulation (His core is capable of recording events, and the stored memories can be extracted for later use or review)
Martial Arts Master (Able to contend with a martial arts genius like Garou in hand to hand combat)
Statistics Amplification (with boosters) Further with 10s mode
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages with Machine Gun Blow)
Danmaku (Genos has access to more than two dozen individual guns across his body, which he can combine for larger, more powerful Incineration Cannon blasts, or to fire multiple energy beams from his arms at once)
Homing Attack (His beams are capable of homing onto their target)

All 3 should have resistance to Fear Manipulation, since they were unaffected by Garou's aura, which made everyone else besides Blast scared.

This is all fine though you've used a scan for Uryu instead of Genos for the Homing Attacks...

Social Influencing (Reputation and Instilling Fear; As the Class Rank 2 hero, she is respected by the public and has many fans around the world. Monsters fear her due to her overwhelming power and brutality on the battlefield)
Underground Mobility (Can travel underground)
Camouflage (Invaded Psykos' body unnoticed by camouflaging herself as energy that Psykos was absorbing through her roots)
Immense Pain Tolerance (Shrugged off severe exhaustion, blood loss and injuries to continue fighting. Despite having been knocked unconscious, she woke up moments later and immediately began fighting waves of Black Sperms while still in a critical condition)
Limited Light Manipulation (Illuminated a giant spear with her green aura) I've seen profiles give light manipulation for having light based aura, so this should be fine
Weather Manipulation (Can create thunderstorms)
Limited Power Nullification with barriers (Durability Negation; Despite having both her own psychic output turned against her and Psykos's output added on top of it, she wasn't instantly crushed thanks to her barrier. Her barriers usually negate psychokinesis from weaker espers, which can bypass conventional durability)

This is all fine.

Tatsumaki should get upscaled from mach 7278(Massively Hypersonic+) to mach 8740.3(Sub-Relativistic), which is a 1.2x increase. She effortlessly dodged all of Psykorochi's attacks while holding back significantly—so much so that she believed she could possibly have killed Saitama(who was no selling all of her attacks) with just a touch increased output, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. During the fight, she kept increasing her output until she reached full power, to which she started pushing past her limits and moved him a little. Her Psychic output affects her speed. So, Full powered Tatsumaki>>>Touch increased Tatsumaki>>>The Tatsumaki who effortlessly dodged Psykorochi's beams>Psykorochi's beams(mach 7278).

In this thread, we were going to upscale her to moon level due to her layers of holding back. The only reason we didn't, was because the upscale would've been a 1.6x increase, which exceeded the wiki's 1.5x limit for upscaling(and even then, we were still considering it due to how far above Psykos Tatsumaki is). So considering that psychic output affects speed, a 1.2x upscale should be fine.

10s mode Genos(with boosters) should probably be upscaled as well, since he was able to intercept a more powerful beam just right before it reached Tatsumaki, and fired a beam of his own.

I don't agree with a speed upscale. I think it is better just to say she is "At least MHS+".

Tatsumaki's AP justification is outdated, as it doesn't include anything after The MA arc. Her new scaling should be something like this:

Agreed.

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

Agreed.

 

[Farfetchedx]

I don't agree with this. It's Bang mimicking the flow of energy in nature with his martial arts, not Bang actually manipulating energy itself.

Energy manipulation can improve performance by manipulating energy internally. Bang utilizes the the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist by manipulating energy internally. The scan states that Garou's ability to copy other techniques comes from the same flow that Bang recreates in his body to utilize the the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist. Some of the techniques Garou copies project energy, which would've come from him manipulating internal energy, which utilizes the same flow as. Also, this scan of the water rotating around his foot might help support it

I don't think this really counts. He is targeting a weakness of these individuals by hitting their insides; a persons insides tend to be more vulnerable than their exterior.

Makes sense

This is all fine though you've used a scan for Uryu instead of Genos for the Homing Attacks...

fixed it

I don't agree with a speed upscale. I think it is better just to say she is "At least MHS+".

Is there any reason you disagree with it? We've already acknowledged that she was holding back immensely, and that would apply to speed as well due to how her power works. Wouldn't it be like how we upscale Carnage Kabuto?

 

[Arkansalter2]

I'm against the rescale/removal of Saitamas High 6-A scale.
But everything else seems fine.

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[Raiden38]

Bump

 

[MrTayman616]

Oh btw, you can find "aura" for Bang and Atomic Samurai from season 2 OVA episode 2.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

• Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into their fists)
• Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)
  • Disagree with the two above.

No comment on the scaling, everything else seems fine, though.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

Silver Fang
Attack Reflection & Limited Damage Boost (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist allows the user to deflect incoming attacks or

Perhaps this is an issue not affecting others, but I am not able to access the Imgur-hosted scan linked by the quoted part of the justification; It takes me to the home page, despite the link being formatted as if directing to an album.

redirect them with double the force)

Regarding this part of the scan, it does support Attack Reflection & Damage Boost, though it doesn't sound like anything non-physical was being deflected.

Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into their fists)

I might call this Limited Energy Manipulation, based on this quote from the EM page:

Possible Uses​

• Manipulation of different types of energies (spiritual, magical, thermal, kinetic, etc.)
• Manipulation of the energy of an opponent
• Energy conversion from one form to another (such as thermal to electrical, spiritual into kinetic, etc.)

Energy Manipulation

The ability to manipulate energy. One of the most ubiquitous and versatile abilities found throughout fiction. It allows use of energy for various purposes, particularly for attack, defense, or improvement of performance. Includes manipulation of both internal and external energy. Obtaining...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Assuming that what was Reflected/Deflected being things like Fire or Electricity does not disqualify it, at least.

If there are scans of it reflecting things like Fire or Electricity, that would put be more on board with Energy Manipulation, at least in a Limited sense, on the basis of the Attack Reflection manipulating energy through an application/technique of the WSRSF.
Being able to manipulate some types of energy through a technique, especially ones that are conventionally too non-physical for the user to interact with (Does SF lack NPI?) would seem to support that the WSRSF style does indeed manipulate energy, as indicated by the description of it taking knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents & tidal surges & recreating these within one's body, putting this into their fist.
For that matter, there is no water visible in the techniques, AFAIK, so while it could be only recreating the motions, the notion of it manipulating energy in a Limited fashion may be implausible, I'd say.

Fear Manipulation (When angered, Saitama exudes an overwhelming pressure that instills fear in others)

What FinePoint says makes sense.
I would say this only comes up when Saitama is angry, yet that it causes an evident pressure, & Saitama may not entirely be aware of his doing it, such as with Flashy Flash, who had a mental image of Saitama saying "I'll beat you up" & that there's something abnormal with him indicates Saitama does this involuntarily & FF calling it abnormal suggests it isn't him merely looking scary, but actually exerting some kind of pressure.

I would thus call it a Likely Limited Fear Manipulation; It's ambiguous if it certainly happened, but it seems to be unnatural & only happen when Saitama's angry.

Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)

For convenience & reference, I'm transcribing from the scans what seems like it could be pertinent text:
Genos: "After I let you aim for my hard head... ...and create an opening. NOW DIE!" (Was this part of the action taken for the justification? If so, it seemed to happen while Genos was in direct contact. If this wasn't relevant, I assume this was in the scan for some other revision's justification or something?)
"Only one monster is left... Genos cleaned up City C in no time!"
"Class-S Genos is incredibly powerful."
"Go two kilometers northwest... to join the other heroes... ...presently engaged in battle."
Crash "!?" "GWOH..."
Genos: "INCINERATE!!!"
"WAH" "HOT"
Genos: "I've melted him from the inside. He should not be able to move again. His gigantic body was his downfall..."

I don't think this really counts. He is targeting a weakness of these individuals by hitting their insides; a persons insides tend to be more vulnerable than their exterior.

Contrary to your opposition based on that he is hitting the presumable weakness & more vulnerable area that is their insides, the Durability Negation page says:

Possible Mechanisms​

Characters might negate durability in many ways, including, but not limited to, the following:

• Attacking internal structures - An attack that somehow bypasses the upper layers of the body and attacks the internal organs or an equivalent. This can be done in a wide variety of ways. It is considered a limited form of negation due to the fact that internal structures and specifically parts whose function isn't to support the structure and stability of the body are much easier to injure or otherwise damage.
• Energy Manipulation - Unconventional use of energy attacks may be able to bypass the body's natural defenses.
• Temperature Manipulation - Heat and its manipulation, whether making things extremely cold or extremely hot often ignores durability.

This may qualify for Durability Negation precisely BECAUSE it attacks the insides, no?

Upscaling Tatsumaki
Tatsumaki should get upscaled from mach 7278(Massively Hypersonic+) to mach 8740.3(Sub-Relativistic), which is a 1.2x increase. She effortlessly dodged all of Psykorochi's attacks while holding back significantly—so much so that she believed she could possibly have killed Saitama(who was no selling all of her attacks) with just a touch increased output, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. During the fight, she kept increasing her output until she reached full power, to which she started pushing past her limits and moved him a little. Her Psychic output affects her speed. So, Full powered Tatsumaki>>>Touch increased Tatsumaki>>>The Tatsumaki who effortlessly dodged Psykorochi's beams>Psykorochi's beams(mach 7278).

In this thread, we were going to upscale her to moon level due to her layers of holding back. The only reason we didn't, was because the upscale would've been a 1.6x increase, which exceeded the wiki's 1.5x limit for upscaling(and even then, we were still considering it due to how far above Psykos Tatsumaki is). So considering that psychic output affects speed, a 1.2x upscale should be fine.

10s mode Genos(with boosters) should probably be upscaled as well, since he was able to intercept a more powerful beam just right before it reached Tatsumaki, and fired a beam of his own.

What indicates she's pushing past her limits? Saitama often acts oblivious, & his dialogue of "Don't push yourself" because he saw Tatsumaki staggering seemed to be the only indicator. To her credit, she is leaning over & "staggering", & then manages to surprise him by moving him, but on the other hand, she's visibly straining more & is her comparison suggests both that this is a lot for her but also she's aware of how much it is; It'd be more likely she'd know how much it is so soon after outputting at that level if she had output at that level before.

Also, what is the basis that her Psychic output affects her speed? Perhaps I overlooked something, but I failed to find a basis for it in this thread & on her current profile.

Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki
His scaling is as follows:

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

I'll tentatively say that this quoted part seems reasonable.

 

[Kachon123]

What indicates she's pushing past her limits? Saitama often acts oblivious, & his dialogue of "Don't push yourself" because he saw Tatsumaki staggering seemed to be the only indicator. To her credit, she is leaning over & "staggering", & then manages to surprise him by moving, but on the other hand, she's visibly straining more & is her comparison suggests both that this is a lot for her but also she's aware of how much it is; It'd be more likely she'd know how much it is so soon after outputting at that level if she had output at that level before.

Tatsumaki's own words, as well as the narrator.

Also, what is the basis that her Psychic output affects her speed? Perhaps I overlooked something, but I failed to find a basis for it in this thread & on her current profile.

The higher psychic output, the higher speed. This interview is linked on Tatsumaki's profile for her attack speed.

 

[Imaginym]

Tatsumaki's own words, as well as the narrator.

Tatsumaki: "I got too wrapped up in things and overshot my limits! How could I have been so careless, even though I need to test this guy?!"
The narrator seems to contradict her by saying "Outside of life-or-death struggles, Terrible Tornado has never hit an opponent with her full might..."
This suggests she didn't push past her limits, she just isn't aware of her limits, & outside of "life-or-death struggles", she doesn't use her full powers, & this was an exception where, similar to a life-or-death struggle, she did use her full power.

Simply put, she was using her full power, & due to how uncommon it is for her to use that level of power, she misinterpreted it & mistakenly thought she was breaking her limits, which the narrator stated she was not doing so.
That is my assessment of that page.

The higher psychic output, the higher speed. This interview is linked on Tatsumaki's profile for her attack speed.

"Q: Murata sensei, here's a question from overseas, can Geryuganshoop actually create black holes by manipulating gravity? It seems like they care about this a lot.

A: hm~, I'm not sure. Black holes seem too powerful. I won't know for sure without asking ONE. But his ability to control flying objects should be above Tatsumaki, because he can eliminate the friction between rocks and air. If Tatsumaki throws rocks like he does, her output will be too powerful, the temperature increase due to friction and pressure, and evaporate the rocks in an instant. Geryuganshoop's psychokinesis can eliminate the friction between objects and air, the rocks will fly at sub-light speed*, that's the setting I based my drawing on. Tatsumaki can throw very large objects, but there's a limit to how fast she can throw them. Geryuganshoop is the greatest psychic in the universe after all. That's what I think. (he repeats this several times)

Murata: Saitama still beat him with a casual stone throw though. In Saitama's eyes rocks at sub-light speed is nothing, it's like a bad joke.

T/N: The Japanese used here is 亜光速, can mean sub-light or near lightspeed. Murata says Geryuganshoop being the greatest psychic in the universe in a joking manner."



Hm. So Murata is saying that if Tatsumaki threw a rock with the force Geryuganshoop does, the rock would be instantly evaporated due to friction & pressure because Tatsumaki lacks the ability Geryuganshoop does to eliminate the friction between rocks & air, allow the rocks to tly at sub-light speed?

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki: "I got too wrapped up in things and overshot my limits! How could I have been so careless, even though I need to test this guy?!"
The narrator seems to contradict her by saying "Outside of life-or-death struggles, Terrible Tornado has never hit an opponent with her full might..."
This suggests she didn't push past her limits, she just isn't aware of her limits, & outside of "life-or-death struggles", she doesn't use her full powers, & this was an exception where, similar to a life-or-death struggle, she did use her full power.

Simply put, she was using her full power, & due to how uncommon it is for her to use that level of power, she misinterpreted it & mistakenly thought she was breaking her limits, which the narrator stated she was not doing so.
That is my assessment of that page.

You're confused. The argument is that Tatsumaki was already using her full power and heightened her output to levels beyond what she normally can handle. This is something that Tatsumaki has mentioned is possible in the past.

Hm. So Murata is saying that if Tatsumaki threw a rock with the force Geryuganshoop does, the rock would be instantly evaporated due to friction & pressure because Tatsumaki lacks the ability Geryuganshoop does to eliminate the friction between rocks & air, allow the rocks to tly at sub-light speed?

The higher output, the faster you go.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Perhaps this is an issue not affecting others, but I am not able to access the Imgur-hosted scan linked by the quoted part of the justification; It takes me to the home page, despite the link being formatted as if directing to an album.

Yeah I don't know what happened. It was just some old scans of Bang redirecting attacks. I'll try to find them later
Edit: fixed it

Regarding this part of the scan, it does support Attack Reflection & Damage Boost, though it doesn't sound like anything non-physical was being deflected.

The NPI isn't from that.

I might call this Limited Energy Manipulation, based on this quote from the EM page:

Possible Uses​

• Manipulation of different types of energies (spiritual, magical, thermal, kinetic, etc.)
• Manipulation of the energy of an opponent
• Energy conversion from one form to another (such as thermal to electrical, spiritual into kinetic, etc.)

Energy Manipulation

The ability to manipulate energy. One of the most ubiquitous and versatile abilities found throughout fiction. It allows use of energy for various purposes, particularly for attack, defense, or improvement of performance. Includes manipulation of both internal and external energy. Obtaining...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Assuming that what was Reflected/Deflected being things like Fire or Electricity does not disqualify it, at least.

If there are scans of it reflecting things like Fire or Electricity, that would put be more on board with Energy Manipulation, at least in a Limited sense, on the basis of the Attack Reflection manipulating energy through an application/technique of the WSRSF.
Being able to manipulate some types of energy through a technique, especially ones that are conventionally too non-physical for the user to interact with (Does SF lack NPI?) would seem to support that the WSRSF style does indeed manipulate energy, as indicated by the description of it taking knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents & tidal surges & recreating these within one's body, putting this into their fist.
For that matter, there is no water visible in the techniques, AFAIK, so while it could be only recreating the motions, the notion of it manipulating energy in a Limited fashion may be implausible, I'd say.

The Energy Manipulation is from the fact that he manipulates kinetic energy. That's how he is able to redirect attacks with 2x the force.

He simply has NPI. Skilled character's like Suiryu, Atomic, and a few others also have it.

For convenience & reference, I'm transcribing from the scans what seems like it could be pertinent text:
Genos: "After I let you aim for my hard head... ...and create an opening. NOW DIE!" (Was this part of the action taken for the justification? If so, it seemed to happen while Genos was in direct contact. If this wasn't relevant, I assume this was in the scan for some other revision's justification or something?)
"Only one monster is left... Genos cleaned up City C in no time!"
"Class-S Genos is incredibly powerful."
"Go two kilometers northwest... to join the other heroes... ...presently engaged in battle."
Crash "!?" "GWOH..."
Genos: "INCINERATE!!!"
"WAH" "HOT"
Genos: "I've melted him from the inside. He should not be able to move again. His gigantic body was his downfall..."



Contrary to your opposition based on that he is hitting the presumable weakness & more vulnerable area that is their insides, the Durability Negation page says:

Possible Mechanisms​

Characters might negate durability in many ways, including, but not limited to, the following:

• Attacking internal structures - An attack that somehow bypasses the upper layers of the body and attacks the internal organs or an equivalent. This can be done in a wide variety of ways. It is considered a limited form of negation due to the fact that internal structures and specifically parts whose function isn't to support the structure and stability of the body are much easier to injure or otherwise damage.
• Energy Manipulation - Unconventional use of energy attacks may be able to bypass the body's natural defenses.
• Temperature Manipulation - Heat and its manipulation, whether making things extremely cold or extremely hot often ignores durability.

This may qualify for Durability Negation precisely BECAUSE it attacks the insides, no?

Yeah, I agree. I should've probably crossed out Durability Negation

What indicates she's pushing past her limits? Saitama often acts oblivious, & his dialogue of "Don't push yourself" because he saw Tatsumaki staggering seemed to be the only indicator. To her credit, she is leaning over & "staggering", & then manages to surprise him by moving, but on the other hand, she's visibly straining more & is her comparison suggests both that this is a lot for her but also she's aware of how much it is; It'd be more likely she'd know how much it is so soon after outputting at that level if she had output at that level before.

Tatsumaki's own words indicate that she is using her full power here. The narrator didn't contradict her statement
The narrator said: "Outside of life-or-death struggles, Terrible Tornado has never hit an opponent with her full might..."
If anything, this is implying that she is using her full power within that moment. Now, its after that which she reaches her limit and starts to go beyond that

So it's like this: Tatsumaki was at her full power here and tried to "end It" -> She starts to push further, and slightly moves Saitama

As Kachon said, the argument isn't that she was actively fighting Saitama beyond her limits. It's that she was fighting at full power, and started to push beyond her limits at the end where she lifted him.

Aside from that though, her main reason for upscaling is due to her levels of holding back against Psykos, which was established in this thread, or more specifically, here, which doesn't even consider her surpassing her limit.

Also, what is the basis that her Psychic output affects her speed? Perhaps I overlooked something, but I failed to find a basis for it in this thread & on her current profile.

Her psychic power is what she uses to fly or do anything really. So the more she output, the stronger her capabilities.