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Post-Crisis Superman and the Mageddon Revision

Firestorm808

Firestorm808

VS Battles
Administrator
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Currently, Superman (Post-Crisis) has the following description:

Lifting Strength: Multi-Stellar (Pushed back Mageddon, a mechanism that greatly dwarfs the su and has millions of times greater mass)

However, this statement and calculation is false and taken out of context. I will be going over two main points to justify this.

The Mageddon is smaller than previously thought
Currently, people judge Mageddon's size based on his first appearance in JLA #37 .

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/nqCO7kayN...PK6YyPnsFFcEbYFhBUfeA4HsQZjeKDeuzdWVN5T2Rc=s0

The caption reads that Mageddon is 12 light years away from Earth, and people believe that the star between its eyes is our sun. This is not the case.

As seen in JLA #15

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/xiJ1LnxDz...m61KkiA7H5CutizzNxcnCKQknywrbcNBJc2de-Kv4O=s0

and JLA #36,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GQ4QNJT08...FEUmqEV2SBWzQLfot-mQNhgX3iFWvDj89nPoMWXY6A=s0


the star between its eyes was there since its creation.


In JLA #39,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/yzIIh9Gm3...G6oRC1q0uMN8-06TNyi1WHESm5JWuP379PmNJp9FVT=s0

Mageddon is right next to Earth. The size of the star between its eyes is comparable to the size of the Earth. There are several scenes later on that support my claim of its true size.

In JLA #40 ,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3ztDk8JFl...M_lqziwQNQ840cv4ewVnLRi6BdbmfSfz5zmhpLLt33=s0

Mageddon is next to Earth.

In JLA #41,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/R-0I-mhGG...Mv5Rv4FGy5_x9oZ3nXJOXYhuBvv-86jBbb4JSDZh83=s0

Mageddon is next to Earth.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/4vGSYbBXn...3jhgDcjYPkKM621M0WyOzB15-W3fYF4UKxUhpC5K13=s0

Mageddon is above Earth.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dZKvXReq...gmE2xDgq87QPahOQVDIwB2EMyiJGzXysrHURkX6Ukl=s0

Mageddon is above Earth.

Superman neither pushed back the Mageddon nor moved it a significant distance
In JLA #39 ,

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/AU0q7CADc...tI0nNjBfg8zhS4cizSlDUVSlgJjCt2M9siFV1g334u=s0

Superman is currently in the Ghost Zone.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GsWquz6d1...VSApPZeng2kelSbFWDaxCRhQEXlrBmY2cRRKcoGgm4=s0

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VEvWHE3o0...pIt7QdNccAYgzdF6h6gsNJNnL8BxjnpKnE3iIxCiSZ=s0

Later, Superman and Orion Boom Tube to Mageddon just as the Mageddon arrives at the solar system.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/yzIIh9Gm3...G6oRC1q0uMN8-06TNyi1WHESm5JWuP379PmNJp9FVT=s0

A short time passes before Mageddon is next to Earth.

JLA #40

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/oMIQji7zr...Khqgjc0DAOW4wrjXt6ELErIONCNTOnftRVJyhvRoCd=s0

The Mageddon is right next to Earth. Martian Manhunter Searches inside Mageddon.

"A great suffering presence there. Chained and despairing. Mah-geh-dun. Turning the endless millwheels."

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/heR69Suld...TMFv869Mf904bck2U1vAchLrWgwS4qyA0qyotdUt3l=s0

It's Superman.

JLA #41

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/lt--eQVAI...QJKoVzTRLe5-aStMa4bGwwCv68n_mxs19AA3El5qMH=s0

"Mageddon has Superman. He is a component now. It will use his strength to destroy us. Great Gods of Mars."

Conclusion
The Mageddon is not a Multi-Stellar feat. Completed

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firestorm808/Post-Crisis_Superman_and_the_Mageddo

Pre-Stellar
 
I was wondering about that feat, but this makes sense to me. He does still have Stellar class lifting strength feat that would scale to WM, MM, Shazam, ect, but I agree on Multi-Stellar being a bit too high.

I agree with this. Though, Matt would be the best guy to ask about this; though, MrSandman, Azathoth, and a few others would also do.
 
Hope you don't mind Firestorm808

I got a possible speed upgrade for Superman:

His speed should be infinite:

He was able to rival Zoom in speed, Zoom is able to move outside of the regular flow of time, where time stands still:

https://imgur.com/VQuZn8z

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/124784/2985163-3057329229-zoom_.jpg

Superman was able to move in the Phantom Zone, which is a timeless dimension:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...5617/b69820b0-ce1f-445e-9531-29b898b5cf51.jpg
 
I talked with Endless Mike on NarutoForums and he agreed that the Mageddon calc was whack. I agree with the Mageddon revision.
 
@ABoogieYesSir

I'm confused. The Phantom Zone is a prison. Does that mean lesser criminals are frozen there and can't move at all? I think the definition of timeless used is different.
 
It's a prison dimension.

Another dimension. The ultimate purgatory of punishment and exile. A timeless sensory deprivation tank that, in time... will drive any prisoner mad.

--Eradicator
 
In the above comic JLA #39, both Batman and Martian Manhunter are moving freely about the Ghost Zone aka the Phantom Zone.
 
Criminals expelled to the Phantom Zone also do not age or require sustenance. This allowed all of its current prisoners to survive the destruction of Krypton and to eventually travel toward Earth to attempt escape or to find revenge on Jor-El's son. Superman also possessed a Phantom Zone Projector in his Fortress of Solitude that allowed him to return prisoners to the Phantom Zone or to add new villains to its stasis.
 
Zoom and Wally West are considered MFTL+ normally. It is only when they run through time where they are given immeasurable speed. PC Superman has not shown to do the same.
 
Superman keeping up with Zoom was probably a massive outlier or Zoom was holding back. Superman Post-Crisis Superman will not be upgraded to Infinite or above speed under any circumstances. And as for Phantom Zone, that's not an Infinite speed feat at all; more like a resistance to time freezing at best.

Anyway, that's off topic; this thread is focused on the legitimacy of the Magedon feat. Which still needs more staff input, but I agree with the downgrade so far.
 
I agree that Superman keeping up with Zoom is a plot-induced stupidity outlier, that Zoom is MFTL+ normally, and that anybody can move in the Phantom Zone. However, that is derailment. Let's return to the main topic of Mageddon.

For the record, I think that the first post seems to make sense. We need to find something else to scale Superman's lifting strength from.
 
Superman does have plenty of casual Class Y feats, and he did throw a compressed solar system before; so I think Stellar Class seems reasonable. But would like to hear more staff input regarding that though.
 
I think that Medeus makes sense. However, you should preferably ask for more staff input, as all the profiles scaled from Superman would need to be updated from Multi-Stellar to Stellar lifting strength.
 
That calc looks pretty good; though, not a calc group member.
 
Thank you. You can ask here for evaluations: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2516175
 
You can ask Matthew Schroeder, Azathoth, Sera Ex, Mr Sandman31 ect via message walls if you like.
 
Here are all of the people that you should ask to contribute here:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23.
 
Thank you.

So should we scale them all to Stellar lifting strength instead, based on Superman throwing a compressed solar system? Or should we scale them to Pre-Stellar based on the Mageddon feat instead?

Also, would anybody experienced be willing to update all of the affected pages?
 
Okay. Thanks. So should we scale to Stellar from the Superman and Lobo feats then?

Also, is somebody willing to apply the changes to the DC profiles scaled from Superman? I am far too overworked to handle it myself.
 
Okay. Thank you. That seems useful as a basis for the new scaling.
 
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