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Raiden (Metal Gear Solid) vs Adam Smasher (Cyberpunk 2077)

Interesting match, I don't really know who wins. Going to write out my train of thought here.

In close range, Raiden definitely seems to have the advantage. He's more skilled and has the quantum dura-negate sword, so I doubt Adam Smasher is winning if he gets too close, though he'd probably know to back away should he get hit with that sword even once.

I figure this match probably starts with Raiden closing the distance while Adam is firing at him from long range with guns and whatnot. He holds a significant AP advantage from the looks of it, so his bullets should do some damage to Raiden. Though Adam Smasher isn't one to back away so he'll probably engage in close-quarters combat early on and realize that Raiden is way too much at that distance. Probably losing a limb in the process.

From there, I think he tries to range him with all of his built-in weaponry and guns. It shouldn't be too difficult to escape Raiden given his movement speed advantage and 10x Sandevistan boost. And that's about where I am now. Not sure how well Raiden can handle that.
 
Going close range is pretty much a death sentence for Adam, as Raiden can pretty much instantly kill him, especially if raiden aims for the head and Adam tries to block it.

Adam can only play the range game, and the moment he goes into range, I honestly think more times than not he's gonna get instantly killed.

Though if he uses 10x Sandevistan boost, then idk tbh.

Currently leaning towards Raiden.
 
Rules of Nature vs "You look like a cut of fuckable meat"

But yeah I think I more or less agree with Phoenks' assessment, not to mention the potential boost Sandevistan provides once we're done fulling assessing the boost Sandevistan provides. We're still not quite done working that out but if I were to predict, it'd be more than 10x imo.
 
Wouldn't Raiden blitz since speed is unequal?

Also Raiden has godly skill so Adam ain't getting a hit on him in close quarters.

I believe that Adam wouldn't use his 10x+ boost from the get go and as he doesn't know Raiden's dura neg sword, Raiden gets close and slashes Adam to bits before he can use his boost.
 
It looks like Raiden is consistently Supersonic to HHS (Mach 30.8?) against Hypersonic with HHS+ (March 70??). That's at least what I'm reading. So honestly it feels like Raiden has the advantage in speed, but how many times can Adam spam his Sandevistan?

And does Raiden's first key have the durability negating sword? Wasn't aware of that
 
Yo, the Adam's profile is great.

Although I don't see this match working. Raiden is able to cut at the macro-quantum level
 
So:

AP
  • Raiden physically scales to 9.85221674876847e+10 Joules
  • Smasher scales to 3.09802995101e+11 Joules
Smasher is 3.1x Raiden in terms of AP

Speed
  • Raiden is scaled to have mach 2.93 running speed, Mach 30.88 combat speed and the ability to do a single action against a Mach 229 attack
  • Smasher is considered by the profile to be notably above mach 7.1 and his Sandevistan boosts his speed to Mach 71
So in general it goes: Raiden's reaction speed >(3.2x) Smasher's Sandevistan >(2.29x) Raiden's combat speed >(4.314x) Smasher's general speed >(2.42x) Raiden's movement speed.

Under this weird layer of speed scaling we have the following situation:
  • Smasher just walking backwards fast enough is enough to outrun Raiden for any period of time. So he cannot close the distance with just speed. He needs other things
  • Raiden being 4.3x Smasher's speed likely means that unless using the Sandevistan Adam isn't going to survive against Raiden without that implant in a prolonged engagement
  • Raiden could likely dodge one or two attacks from Smasher in the Sandevistan, but the 2x speed difference still would indicate that eventually Raiden would get tagged since his body can't keep up
Lifting Strength

Raiden is currently rated 6,471 times stronger than Smasher.

So.... yeah

Though there is an proposed calc that would scale to Smasher, which would make him 9.38x to 84x stronger than Raiden.

Equipment vs Equipment:

Raiden
  • Soliton Radar / Anti-personnel Sensor: Smasher in this incarnation doesn't have the ability to jam or disrupt these systems from detecting him
  • Solid Eye: The footprints don't really seem useful and the rest of the solid eye doesn't work when his enemy's only organic parts are part of his face and brain
  • Codec: Not useful for the fight
  • Chaff/Jam Grenade: Smasher's body is designed to handle electronic and nuclear warfare. So its unlikely that either grenade would significantly impair Adam's person
  • High-Frequency Blade: This is Raiden's biggest advantage. Now as a note the blade is mentioned canonically as not just outright ignoring strong material
    • Doktor:It is a high-frequency blade, Raiden, not a plasma sword. There are limits to what it can cut. The HF waves strengthen the metallic bonds in the blade, improving its cutting ability... But in terms of pure physics, no blade can, erm, cut it in every situation. Theoretically speaking, an HF blade can damage anything, no matter how tough. But thick ceramic or carbon nanotube armor does not simply split open like butter with a hot knife. You need to chip away at it first, before you can destroy such material.
    • This is important since Smasher's armor is made of thick laminated ceramic armor and foamed metal, items mentioned by Doktor as requiring more effort to cut. But in the end Smasher just has no resistance to being whittled down and the blade will eventually breach his armor
  • Other weapons: Raiden's guns seem like they can't penetrate Adam's armor, though his stinger missiles might be. But those missiles are also something Smasher can counter with his speed boosts or enhanced aim.
Smasher
  • Kyoshi Eye: Smasher scanning Raiden nullifies his stealth and gives him a far greater environmental awareness. This combined with the items ability to scan and a enemy and give Smasher his stats means that he'll know what Raiden is packing for this fight.
  • Smasher's Guns: While they're capable of harming people on Smasher's levels, so are relevant for the fight, the main issue here is that Smasher statues his own bullets, meaning that the only way he really can get a leg up on Raiden is to sneak hit him with a bullet (which would be absurdly difficult) or try to blast him with explosives or the arm cannon, which can work but require him to give up distance.
Ability vs Ability

Raiden
Smasher
Conclusion

So here's what we got
  • Raiden demolishes Smasher's current lifting strength rating (he'll probably become Class G later on but that hasn't happened yet). A solid advantage, if Raiden actually grappled anyone.
  • Smasher can run backwards faster than Raiden can run forwards. Meaning that if Smasher choose to, he can just powerwalk backwards and Raiden could do nothing about it
  • None of Raiden's hax gear is taking down Smasher
  • Smasher's guns are mostly useless against Raiden. Smasher also can't break or shatter Raiden's sword, which can withstand High 7-C forces without breaking
This mostly comes down to how competent Smasher is at fighting. Since, theoretically, if he was perfectly ran (like say Batman was controlling him or something), Smasher could just backpedal and abuse his Sandevistan until he wins. The main issue is that Adam Smasher is not Batman he is Adam Smasher (plot twist I know). When David, a 17-18 year old, had the "audacity" to prevent Smasher from killing two people he went completely berserk and forgot about his mission to kill everyone. When Morgan Blackhand and Johnny challenged Adam's worldview, he dropped everything and went solely after them. When he fought V (and others), he was so focused on murdering V that another person could deal a critical blow to his systems.

Overall what I'm getting at is that Smasher's worst enemy in this fight is probably himself. Smasher won't back away from Raiden, he'll rush foreword. Smasher will abuse the Sandevistan but he'll abuse it in a way that places him in Raiden's threat zone.

Now lets assume the Class G revisions count for this thread. Smasher would be able to overpower Raiden, but that doesn't change that he's fighting a more skilled fighter and is fighting him in a way that will put him in a death zone.

Anyways overall here's my view
  • Current ratings: Smasher shoots Raiden, who blocks everything and closes the distance. While doing so Smasher scans Raiden and realizes he's carrying some sort of hyper advanced Mono-Blade. When Raiden closes the distances and begins to overwhelm Smasher with his speed, he'll trigger the Sandevistan to make up for it and begin to pound on Raiden, but at any moment if Smasher tries to grapple Raiden or if Raiden grabs Smasher the fight likely ends there. As Smasher will be overpowered physically and Raiden's extreme skill with his sword will eventually guarantee a hit.
  • Adjusted Lifting Strength: Adam's main win condition is honestly pretty easy. If the sword is removed from Raiden's hand and used by Smasher or just... chucked then Raiden just doesn't have anything relevant enough to harm Smasher and eventually loses.

So presumably since the lifting strength revisions will be applied before the thread will close, I feel like Smasher has a solid chance to brute force a win here. If not then I think Smasher's meat brain tactics will lead him to overestimate his own strength and get eventually cut down by Raiden.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
If the sword is removed from Raiden's hand and used by Smasher or just... chucked then Raiden just doesn't have anything relevant enough to harm Smasher and eventually loses.
Click to expand...
It’s incredibly difficult to actually catch a blade and hold on to it. Even if Raiden’s sword can’t immediately slice up Smasher into ribbons, the gauntlets (or in this case metallic frame) are usually lined up less than the main pieces, meaning it will take significantly less effort to hack them off if Smasher goes for the blade.

Sandevistan providing a two times speed boost isn’t enough for get control of Raiden’s wrists before his blade gets in the way as it’s very easy to change the trajectory of a normal blade (more easily at Raiden’s strength especially) and force Smasher back on the defensive.

Although Smasher does have weapons too (irrc his fists have a rocket launcher in them), so he could aim for his wrist.
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
It’s incredibly difficult to actually catch a blade and hold on to it.
Click to expand...
Under this circumstance Smasher is 10 to 98 time stronger than Raiden. He would be able to easily break his hold on the blade if he felt like it.

I also wasn't implying he would be able to catch the blade easily or anything like that, just that his win con would just be getting the sword away from Raiden. Since without the sword Raiden has nothing else to get through Adam's gear.
 
god Smasher being 98 times stronger than Raiden would be a beautiful thing. honestly.

please oh VSB gods make smasher be able to Supplex Raiden
 
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