Removal of Infinite Attack Speed in Bleach

[HenshinIntervention]

Reading the discussion gives me the impression that while yes, the X Axis does have properties similar to Infinite Speed, it's not necessarily one to one with the definition (especially if you want to be more strict on it). This leads me to believe that (in the absence of good alternatives) there is no good Hax or stat that can index this well enough with no issues, and so I am neutral with this CRT.

 

[Cipher72]

Reading the discussion gives me the impression that while yes, the X Axis does have properties similar to Infinite Speed, it's not necessarily one to one with the definition (especially if you want to be more strict on it). This leads me to believe that (in the absence of good alternatives) there is no good Hax or stat that can index this well enough with no issues, and so I am neutral with this CRT.

I feel like that's a fine conclusion and ironically my opinion asw, strictly speaking it doesn't have a projectile but it does travel physically or well the effects happens to everything physically between the coordinates, it's not a proper hax to speak so in the absence of such hax Infinite speed is better as an alternative.

 

[Dalesean027]

Count me as disagree here

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Can we get CM-3 or maybe CM-2 for Ignoring the concept of Distance also isn't that just better ?

Ignoring concepts doesn’t really give anything ability wise

 

[Cipher72]

Ignoring concepts doesn’t really give anything ability wise

That was a joke.....

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

That was a joke.....

 

[Damage3245]

For infinite speed there would need to be movement of some projectile involved, which I don't think is what X-Axis does. It seems to rather just be manifesting the effect (erasure/penetration of something) on the thing, in my understanding.

Based on this I agree with removing Infinite attack speed.

 

[Hecky2222]

Just finished reading little debate between Cipher and Saq, Cipher makes more sense to me.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Ignoring concepts doesn’t really give anything ability wise

I think it's Unconventional Resistance or Immunity to Conceptual Type 3

 

[Cipher72]

Based on this I agree with removing Infinite attack speed.

Hello, If you don't think this qualifies for Infinite speed because of the inherent lack of Projectiles then how would you go about classifying this ability. As mentioned before the effect of the attack does physically travel through the coordinates in no time (inferred from making the idea of dodging useless) and isn't referred to as "manifesting a 5 cm Hole" like how else would you index this ? Just curious.

 

[Damage3245]

Hello, If you don't think this qualifies for Infinite speed because of the inherent lack of Projectiles then how would you go about classifying this ability. As mentioned before the effect of the attack does physically travel through the coordinates in no time (inferred from making the idea of dodging useless) and isn't referred to as "manifesting a 5 cm Hole" like how else would you index this ? Just curious.

I'd just make sure it is mentioned in his Spatial Manipulation & Durability Negation section. I don't think it applies to the speed ratings.

 

[Cipher72]

I'd just make sure it is mentioned in his Spatial Manipulation & Durability Negation section. I don't think it applies to the speed ratings

Alright, but what about the fact that the attack cannot be dodged, we get two explanations from Lille himself. The first time he says that his attack penetrates everything between his muzzle and the target at once and also the fact there's no projectile. As you know it's typically impossible for something with mass to actually reach the speed of light or go beyond to Infinite speed. Obviously Fiction doesn't have to subject itself to such restrictions that we can hopefully agree on but if the author goes out of his way to specify that something doesn't have mass for the sake of making it so that it can't be dodged, lend credence to said attack not being dodged (it has never been dodged) and even have the character say and I am quoting "The very concept of Dodging has no meaning" are we really going to straight up ignore that statement ?

Let's take a look at what we know,

• It penetrates anything and everything in between two coordinates
• You can't dodge it

I don't think it fits a 1:1 criterion with our standards for Infinite speed like you pointed out before with the absence of a projectile but if the author intended the absence of a projectile as a necessity for Infinite speed who are we to really dispute that ? I get its a matter of interpretation but I don't think there's any way to classify this attack, I do agree it's durability negation but it's not

• TELEPORTATION
• Subjective Reality (this needs more evidence)
• Some sort of Distance Manipulation or whatever
• Homing

If there are three descriptors of the ability with one being directly tied to speed, in the absence of a proper hax to index the ability I think Infinite Speed is a far better call. That's all I have to say on the matter, regardless I understand your point of view.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Alright, but what about the fact that the attack cannot be dodged, we get two explanations from Lille himself. The first time he says that his attack penetrates everything between his muzzle and the target at once and also the fact there's no projectile. As you know it's typically impossible for something with mass to actually reach the speed of light or go beyond to Infinite speed. Obviously Fiction doesn't have to subject itself to such restrictions that we can hopefully agree on but if the author goes out of his way to specify that something doesn't have mass for the sake of making it so that it can't be dodged, lend credence to said attack not being dodged (it has never been dodged) and even have the character say and I am quoting "The very concept of Dodging has no meaning" are we really going to straight up ignore that statement ?

I don't think it fits a 1:1 criterion with our standards for Infinite speed like you pointed out before with the absence of a projectile but if the author intended the absence of a projectile as a necessity for Infinite speed who are we to really dispute that ? I get its a matter of interpretation but I don't think there's any way to classify this attack, I do agree it's durability negation but it's not

• TELEPORTATION
• Subjective Reality (this needs more evidence)
• Some sort of Distance Manipulation or whatever
• Homing

If there are three descriptors of the ability with one being directly tied to speed, in the absence of a proper hax to index the ability I think Infinite Speed is a far better call. That's all I have to say on the matter, regardless I understand your point of view.

This is instantaneous transfer of attacks and spatial distance negation.

This could fall under spatial manipulation or instantaneous attack teleportation.

In any case, these are the current votes:
Agree: @DontTalkDT, @Damage3245
Disagree: @Dalesean027
Neutral:

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't think it fits a 1:1 criterion with our standards for Infinite speed like you pointed out before with the absence of a projectile but if the author intended the absence of a projectile as a necessity for Infinite speed who are we to really dispute that ? I get its a matter of interpretation but I don't think there's any way to classify this attack, I do agree it's durability negation but it's not

• TELEPORTATION
• Subjective Reality (this needs more evidence)
• Some sort of Distance Manipulation or whatever
• Homing

If there are three descriptors of the ability with one being directly tied to speed, in the absence of a proper hax to index the ability I think Infinite Speed is a far better call. That's all I have to say on the matter, regardless I understand your point of view.

Agreed here, every alternative that has been given contradicts what we're actually told the ability is and how it works and seems like a bandage trying to patch something that isn't broken. The ability is perfectly fine as is, concrete evidence in scans have yet to be provided that say the attack is infact not doing what Lille said it does. There's just been a lot of conjecture without much substance or good alternatives provided that make anything else seem more plausible


It quite literally can't be teleportation because it hits everything inbetween the muzzle and his target, its not bouncing around from one thing to another in a instant

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Alright, but what about the fact that the attack cannot be dodged, we get two explanations from Lille himself. The first time he says that his attack penetrates everything between his muzzle and the target at once and also the fact there's no projectile. As you know it's typically impossible for something with mass to actually reach the speed of light or go beyond to Infinite speed. Obviously Fiction doesn't have to subject itself to such restrictions that we can hopefully agree on but if the author goes out of his way to specify that something doesn't have mass for the sake of making it so that it can't be dodged, lend credence to said attack not being dodged (it has never been dodged) and even have the character say and I am quoting "The very concept of Dodging has no meaning" are we really going to straight up ignore that statement ?

I don't think it fits a 1:1 criterion with our standards for Infinite speed like you pointed out before with the absence of a projectile but if the author intended the absence of a projectile as a necessity for Infinite speed who are we to really dispute that ? I get its a matter of interpretation but I don't think there's any way to classify this attack, I do agree it's durability negation but it's not

• TELEPORTATION
• Subjective Reality (this needs more evidence)
• Some sort of Distance Manipulation or whatever
• Homing

If there are three descriptors of the ability with one being directly tied to speed, in the absence of a proper hax to index the ability I think Infinite Speed is a far better call. That's all I have to say on the matter, regardless I understand your point of view.

There is no contradiction.
This is spatial manipulation or instantaneous teleportation.

This ability allows it to pierce everything between the gun and the target directly, completely ignoring distance. It is strange that the manga never states that it is speed, nor that it even travels at all. In fact, the evidence shows that the projectile does not traverse distance; instead, it appears instantly on the body of whatever it targets, bypassing distance entirely.

If the projectile does not traverse distance, that alone is sufficient reason to classify it as non-speed, because infinite speed must still involve traversing distance. Otherwise, as Cipher72 and even you pointed out, it does not align with the requirements for infinite speed.

In short, you cannot claim this is “story logic” — it is not. It contradicts the criteria for speed here. It is also strange that the narrative never describes the attack as speed at all; no one is surprised, no one mentions it being fast, and there is not even a hint that it is moving. Instead, it is treated as directly bypassing everything between the muzzle and the target, ignoring distance entirely.

This is spatial manipulation or instantaneous teleportation.
If there is no evidence that the projectile traverses distance or moves, then it should not be classified as infinite speed. It is also very strange that there is not a single indication supporting infinite speed, not even a minor implication, while the manga explicitly states that the projectile passes through everything between it and the target, ignoring distance. It is also strange that no one describes it as speed or even implies motion, which also explains why dodging becomes conceptually impossible.
That is my final comment on this matter.

 

[Mommyleona]

how about changing the rating from likely to possibly as a middle ground, as it does fit some criteria

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Just reword it to unconventional infinite speed.

 

[Cipher72]

Just reword it to unconventional infinite speed.

Fine with this.

how about changing the rating from likely to possibly as a middle ground, as it does fit some criteria

I don't think the speed is what's under contention here like why are we contending the possibility of the attack speed being Infinite ? I fail to understand the logic here. imo Yhwach shouldn't have this in the first place but it's only for VSB and if OP chooses to apply it For Lille "likely" already does a good job at hinting at the possibility that it isn't an exact 1:1
It even says in the literal description that it's not complete infinite speed in the sense it can traverse an Infinite distance

However this ability has a limited when it comes to its range, it doesn't/can't travel an infinite distance, rather it can only travel the known, effective range of Lille's Schrift, instantaneously)

Someone should re-word this to "has a limitation when it comes to its range" or "is limited when it comes to it's range"

As Dale said, "Why are we trying to patch something that isn't broken ?"

This is spatial manipulation or instantaneous teleportation.

Already addressed the teleportation now tell me how this is spatial manipulation,

Spatial Manipulation is the ability to warp, bend, flip, crush, and control space.

Also explain why said ability being spatial manipulation would result in a speed rating being mutually exclusive.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Alright, but what about the fact that the attack cannot be dodged, we get two explanations from Lille himself. The first time he says that his attack penetrates everything between his muzzle and the target at once and also the fact there's no projectile. As you know it's typically impossible for something with mass to actually reach the speed of light or go beyond to Infinite speed. Obviously Fiction doesn't have to subject itself to such restrictions that we can hopefully agree on but if the author goes out of his way to specify that something doesn't have mass for the sake of making it so that it can't be dodged, lend credence to said attack not being dodged (it has never been dodged) and even have the character say and I am quoting "The very concept of Dodging has no meaning" are we really going to straight up ignore that statement ?

I don't think it fits a 1:1 criterion with our standards for Infinite speed like you pointed out before with the absence of a projectile but if the author intended the absence of a projectile as a necessity for Infinite speed who are we to really dispute that ? I get its a matter of interpretation but I don't think there's any way to classify this attack, I do agree it's durability negation but it's not

• TELEPORTATION
• Subjective Reality (this needs more evidence)
• Some sort of Distance Manipulation or whatever
• Homing

If there are three descriptors of the ability with one being directly tied to speed, in the absence of a proper hax to index the ability I think Infinite Speed is a far better call. That's all I have to say on the matter, regardless I understand your point of view.

90% of reality warping and other abilities that just spawn effects on people don't travel. The ability really is not awfully special in that regard.
Quite frankly, if it weren't for the fact that the mechanism is of said 'just spawning the effect on people' type, but an attack that actually travels, it wouldn't even have sufficient support for actually infinite speed.

So yeah. This is just a weird case where an attribute many abilities have is currently listed in a weird way. Like some profiles in the past used to list infinite speed for teleportation.

 

[Cipher72]

90% of reality warping and other abilities that just spawn effects on people don't travel. The ability really is not awfully special in that regard.
Quite frankly, if it weren't for the fact that the mechanism is of said 'just spawning the effect on people' type, but an attack that actually travels, it wouldn't even have sufficient support for actually infinite speed.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I understand that completely, I even agree that it isn't 1:1 because like you and Damage pointed out it doesn't have a physical projectile that travels, I agree on that front.

So yeah. This is just a weird case where an attribute many abilities have is currently listed in a weird way. Like some profiles in the past used to list infinite speed for teleportation.

My qualms aren't with that really, like I explained it isn't Teleportation because it effects the stuff inbetween coordinates so something like Subjective Reality would be more appropriate however there's simply insufficient proof to conclude the existence of such ability, as far my understanding abilities like Subjective Reality as limited as they might be require statements that back it up and said statements aren't simply present here. I think

"likely Unconventional Infinite Speed"

is the best however as I said I am open to an alternative.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

For infinite speed there would need to be movement of some projectile involved, which I don't think is what X-Axis does. It seems to rather just be manifesting the effect (erasure/penetration of something) on the thing, in my understanding.

Based on what has been said, I agree with removing infinite speed as well.

 

[ItsMeat]

Reading through this thread, this option makes the most sense to me

Just reword it to unconventional infinite speed.

because it DOES hit in 0 time from when Lille fires it, regardless of the distance

Anyway, while it does lack a projectile, that's just NEP and I believe it'd still quallify for a speed rating(since that's the arg against it). We accept that characters with NEP can still have speed ratings and Bleach is no difference as shown with Guanael who can move and may have a speciffic position even when he doesn't exist, just like X-Axis' projectile:

Anyway, disagree with the crt

 

[HelloThere1089]

I cannot read the entire thread rn, but if there is no travel, then there is no speed. Idk where the unconventional speed argument is coming from.

 

[Cipher72]

I cannot read the entire thread rn, but if there is no travel, then there is no speed

There's no projectile with a mass, however the attack does travel just in an instant

 

[MANOFGOD7]

in 0 time

in an instant

How sure are we that it happens in an instant or in 0 time??

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

There's no projectile with a mass, however the attack does travel just in an instant

We sure this isn’t glorified limited subjective gun reality

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

How does this even get to 3 pages? Most of the disagreement just feels like people disagreeing because the thread was made by Azerty. Which, don't get me wrong, can be goofy a lot of the time, but completely discrediting it because of that? The thread honestly isn't even THAT badly formatted (because a lot of people also using this kind of reasoning to discredit the thread). I can understand the point being made, and I'm pretty sure anyone with basic reading comprehension can grasp the idea behind it.

Anyway, this is pretty straightforward. Infinite speed requires a character to either travel a finite distance in zero timeframe, or travel an infinite distance in finite timeframe. The important part here is the actual act of traveling a distance. X-Axis isn't really “traveling” in the first place. Technically, it's more like it is already there because it ignores distance entirely. Sure, that results in a zero-timeframe interaction, but that still isn't movement in the conventional sense required for Infinite Speed.

We literally have Kumagawa with a very similar explanation. If it makes anyone feel better, X-Axis is basically just Spatial Hax and, at most, Conceptual shit. Same reason why Deltarune gets Ignore Distance (a form of Spatial hax) instead of actual Infinite Speed, is because the attack itself doesn't even travel at all as it doesn't even have distance to travel into. It's. Already. There. It cuts the distance, it deliberately ignore it, of course it's gonna be instantaneous.

 

[HelloThere1089]

There's no projectile with a mass, however the attack does travel just in an instant

I never mentioned a projectile. I'm just sticking to the definition of travelling. Can you link me to the comment that proves that the attack is actually moving as opposed to just spawning?

 

[Cipher72]

We sure this isn’t glorified limited subjective gun reality

I mean you can say so like I said we don't know, we have to make the least assumptions and none of the statements say something like "X axis materialises the idea of a 5cm hole between the muzzle and the target" like you need a statement for SR which is simply lacking here to support that conclusion. I am not against the alternatives I just feel like said alternatives aren't backed by anything it's all "Oh well instead of Infinite speed it could be X" without actually explaining how the story backs up said idea.
----

How sure are we that it happens in an instant or in 0 time??

It cannot be dodged or well the statement is "The very concept of Dodging has no meaning" and no character has ever dodged it including characters that speed blitzed Lille (the person with Infinite attack speed) previously which is why I said Likely Unconventional Infinite Speed is better.

X-Axis isn't really “traveling” in the first place. Technically, it's more like it is already there

It's already there because it travelled said distance to get there....
That's how it works if it skipped that distance or materialised the effect just on the target then we wouldn't have these.

X-axis penetrates (physically) anything between the muzzle and the target in no time, take the muzzle starting at coordinate (1,2,3) and the target is at (500,2,3) it physically travels that distance

but that still isn't movement in the conventional sense required for Infinite Speed.

This is interesting because how exactly does one define "Conventional movement for Infinite speed" by convention something with mass can't be moving at SOL or beyond now if you are going to say "Well most Characters with Infinite speed are characters with mass that actually physically travel the distance" in that case sure but we are literally arguing for unconventional infinite attack speed with the un prefix before conventional so like....
Again no disrespect but c'mon,

We literally have Kumagawa with a very similar explanation

No we don't ???
Kumagawa uses All Fiction to erase the very cause behind his movements meaning he takes no time to move in the sense that he does something like
[Cause] (I walk 5 metres to reach X) ---> [Effect](I reach X) and he erases that cause to reach X instantly thus travelling 5 metres which is completely different, he does a similar thing with Jakago where he spawns in screws by either seemingly Spawning them in or removing the cause behind or wtv, point is Kumagawa and X-axis is completely different.

Not sure on the delatrune one but I am also fine with something like

[[Space Manipulation]] (Can ignore distance making the concept of dodging useless, however this is limited by range....)

However at this point we are really arguing on how to index something that effectively does the same thing...
Like it's still a matter of speed, you can't really dodge it with higher speed. So whatever.

I never mentioned a projectile. I'm just sticking to the definition of travelling. Can you link me to the comment that proves that the attack is actually moving as opposed to just spawning?

Already did

 

[Azertyhuuh]

How does this even get to 3 pages? Most of the disagreement just feels like people disagreeing because the thread was made by Azerty. Which, don't get me wrong, can be goofy a lot of the time, but completely discrediting it because of that? The thread honestly isn't even THAT badly formatted (because a lot of people also using this kind of reasoning to discredit the thread). I can understand the point being made, and I'm pretty sure anyone with basic reading comprehension can grasp the idea behind it.

Anyway, this is pretty straightforward. Infinite speed requires a character to either travel a finite distance in zero timeframe, or travel an infinite distance in finite timeframe. The important part here is the actual act of traveling a distance. X-Axis isn't really “traveling” in the first place. Technically, it's more like it is already there because it ignores distance entirely. Sure, that results in a zero-timeframe interaction, but that still isn't movement in the conventional sense required for Infinite Speed.

We literally have Kumagawa with a very similar explanation. If it makes anyone feel better, X-Axis is basically just Spatial Hax and, at most, Conceptual shit. Same reason why Deltarune gets Ignore Distance (a form of Spatial hax) instead of actual Infinite Speed, is because the attack itself doesn't even travel at all as it doesn't even have distance to travel into. It's. Already. There. It cuts the distance, it deliberately ignore it, of course it's gonna be instantaneous.

Yes, that's correct. In any case, the thread has already received approval from two staff members, and only one more approval is needed for the removal. Most people there also agree with removing Infinite Speed.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Already did

Can you reply to me specifically. I got confused because of all the people you replied to. In the scans you provided, none of them mentioned any movement.

 

[Cipher72]

Can you reply to me specifically. I got confused because of all the people you replied to. In the scans you provided, none of them mentioned any movement.

Edit: I will shove the remainder of my arguments here, I think we can all agree that regardless of how we choose to index this (SR, Space hax or anything that isn't Teleportation) no character with a finite speed value can dodge this you can't say that a character moving at 1C or 50C or 50000C or 99999999999⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹C will be able to dodge this attack, I hope everyone agrees with that so either way we are essentially indexing an attack that can't be dodged but is however limited by range so why are we semantically arguing on indexing it as something the source material gives no credence to. I mean I don't mind it because it virtually does the same thing like you are still going to say it's an attack that functions similar to Infinite Speed Attacks so like why bother ? Just go with the simplest example, unless someone makes a hax named "Undodgeable attacks" then be my guest ig.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I believe this is a demonstration of the ability. How does it prove travel?

 

[Cipher72]

I believe this is a demonstration of the ability. How does it prove travel?

Can you define travel for me, like what exactly do you think travel entails for an Infinite speed character just so that we are on the same page.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Can you define travel for me

Sure why not. I would define travel as movement from point A to point B. As in, the object in question needs to actually move the distance as opposed to just spawning in point B. My issue with the categorization of X axis as infinite speed is because of how the ability is defined. There is no bullet, the attack uniformly penetrates every point between point A and point B. Meaning there is no travel whatsoever. It never says something moves from the muzzle to the target. It just spawns penetration between the muzzle and the target. Similar to how Amaterasu can be spawned by Sasuke at any opponent of his. It is not travelling or teleporting, it just appears directly at the target. Similarly X axis just spawns its attack on all the points between the muzzle and target. That's the gist of how it seems to me.

 

[Cipher72]

Sure why not. I would define travel as movement from point A to point B. As in, the object in question needs to actually move the distance as opposed to just spawning in point B. My issue with the categorization of X axis as infinite speed is because of how the ability is defined. There is no bullet, the attack uniformly penetrates every point between point A and point B. Meaning there is no travel whatsoever. It never says something moves from the muzzle to the target. It just spawns penetration between the muzzle and the target. Similar to how Amaterasu can be spawned by Sasuke at any opponent of his. It is not travelling or teleporting, it just appears directly at the target. Similarly X axis just spawns its attack on all the points between the muzzle and target. That's the gist of how it seems to me.

Alright so let me break it down, Travel is movement from point A to point B which is elaborated on by moving the entire distance from point A to point B instead of spawning in at point B (that's what you wrote)
_____

My issue with the categorization of X axis as infinite speed is because of how the ability is defined. There is no bullet, the attack uniformly penetrates every point between point A and point B.

So it's travelling through every point between Point A and Point B......

Re-read what you sent,
If you are defining movement as "traversing every point in between the starting point and the finishing point instead of spawning in/arriving at the finish point and as such bypassing the points in between" then as per your own explanation you concede that X-axis doesn't do that instead it uniformly penetrates every point between point A and point B. or in other words it goes through every point between A & B the start and the finish and doesn't skip any points in between.

Meaning there is no travel whatsoever.

....
That's contradictory to your own explanation of travel and X-axis. If something traverses the space in between the two points Muzzle and the target (Oetsu) denoted by it punching a hole in the weapons of Hikifune and Kirinji (The other girl and the guy) that means it travels said coordinates instead of ignoring the stuff in between.
____

It never says something moves from the muzzle to the target. It just spawns penetration between the muzzle and the target.

What does this even mean ?
You are essentially saying "X doesn't walk from point A to point B and every single coordinate in between said points instead X spawns in the effect of walk in every single cordinate between point A and B" like what ???
I am not genuinely not understanding what you are attempting to convey with this line of reasoning, you are dismissing the idea of it traversing through the space in between and arguing it skips said space and only spawns at the target whilst simultaneously saying that it spawns the effect on everything in the space between the muzzle and the target and doesn't skip the space....
____

Similarly X axis just spawns its attack on all the points between the muzzle and target. That's the gist of how it seems to me.

I don't know jack about Amatersasu so I won't larp or comment on that but that's movement....

 

[HelloThere1089]

Alright so let me break it down, Travel is movement from point A to point B which is elaborated on by moving the entire distance from point A to point B instead of spawning in at point B (that's what you wrote)
_____

So it's travelling through every point between Point A and Point B......

Re-read what you sent,
If you are defining movement as "traversing every point in between the starting point and the finishing point instead of spawning in/arriving at the finish point and as such bypassing the points in between" then as per your own explanation you concede that X-axis doesn't do that instead it uniformly penetrates every point between point A and point B. or in other words it goes through every point between A & B the start and the finish and doesn't skip any points in between.

....
That's contradictory to your own explanation of travel and X-axis
____

What does this even mean ?
You are essentially saying "X doesn't walk from point A to point B and every single coordinate in between said points instead X spawns in the effect of walk in every single cordinate between point A and B" like what ???
I am not genuinely not understanding what you are attempting to convey with this line of reasoning, you are dismissing the idea of it traversing through the space in between and arguing it skips said space and only spawns at the target whilst simultaneously saying that it spawns the effect on everything in the space between the muzzle and the target and doesn't skip the space....
____

I don't know jack about Amatersasu so I won't larp or comment on that but that's movement....

I won't address every part of this because I think that's pointless. You seem to be misunderstanding me fundamentally here. I never once said that X axis is spawning at the finish point aka point B aka the target. X axis is spawning a line that is the length of the distance between the muzzle and the target. Because of which all points between them are penetrated. Imagine if you will, there are infinite points between the muzzle and the target. X axis has the ability to materialize a line/rod that covers each one of those points. Which is why nothing can stop it, because it is not moving at all.

There is a distinct difference between an object traversing all the points between A and B, and an object that is so long that it automatically covers all such points just by materializing. That is how the definition of X axis looks like to me. Uniform penetration.

What does this even mean ?
You are essentially saying "X doesn't walk from point A to point B and every single coordinate in between said points instead X spawns in the effect of walk in every single cordinate between point A and B" like what ???
I am not genuinely not understanding what you are attempting to convey with this line of reasoning, you are dismissing the idea of it traversing through the space in between and arguing it skips said space and only spawns at the target whilst simultaneously saying that it spawns the effect on everything in the space between the muzzle and the target and doesn't skip the space....

The effect of penetration doesn't require movement at all. If I have a creation hax for example and create a knife in the middle of a man's guts, that man is penetrated without the knife ever being moved. X axis does that because it's attack's length automatically covers the entire length between the muzzle and the target because that's just how long it is. The beam never moves, it is just created right where the user wants the hole to be.

Like if a wheel of cheese exists with a diameter of 0.5 m. One end of the diameter is a muzzle, and the other end is the target. I can create a 0.5 m metal rod in the middle of the wheel of cheese, then the hole created will cover both the muzzle, the target, and all the points between without ever travelling at all.

 

[Cipher72]

Glad that was an misunderstanding anyways,

X axis is spawning a line that is the length of the distance between the muzzle and the target. Because of which all points between them are penetrated. Imagine if you will, there are infinite points between the muzzle and the target. X axis has the ability to materialize a line/rod that covers each one of those points. Which is why nothing can stop it, because it is not moving at all.

I think I already explained this in a prior comment with an edit, what you are describing by all means is still unconventional Infinite Speed if you can materialise say a 5 metres hole across all coordinates from Point A to Point B in an instant by all means that's an attack that can't be dodged.

Edit: I will shove the remainder of my arguments here, I think we can all agree that regardless of how we choose to index this (SR, Space hax or anything that isn't Teleportation) no character with a finite speed value can dodge this you can't say that a character moving at 1C or 50C or 50000C or 99999999999⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹C will be able to dodge this attack, I hope everyone agrees with that so either way we are essentially indexing an attack that can't be dodged but is however limited by range so why are we semantically arguing on indexing it as something the source material gives no credence to. I mean I don't mind it because it virtually does the same thing like you are still going to say it's an attack that functions similar to Infinite Speed Attacks so like why bother ? Just go with the simplest example, unless someone makes a hax named "Undodgeable attacks" then be my guest ig.

There is a distinct difference between an object traversing all the points between A and B, and an object that is so long that it automatically covers all such points just by materializing. That is how the definition of X axis looks like to me. Uniform penetration.

Again if you think that X axis shoots out something with no mass but a finite length that bridges the gap between Point A and Point B instantly it's still unconventional Infinite Attack Speed like in practice you aren't changing anything also this kinda contradicts the statement of "There's no bullet" if you are arguing that it's one long abstract bullet embodying the idea of uniform penetration or whatever.

Like we are just presenting alternatives to something that doesn't need alternatives in the first place.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Glad that was an misunderstanding anyways,

I think I already explained this in a prior comment with an edit, what you are describing by all means is still unconventional Infinite Speed if you can materialise say a 5 metres hole across all coordinates from Point A to Point B in an instant by all means that's an attack that can't be dodged.

Look I'll be completely honest here. I'm not up to date with all the vs battle lingo rn, but it is odd to me that if something doesn't move it can still be considered speed. Just because something can't be dodged, doesn't mean it needs to have infinite speed. Calling it unconventional speed is the same as calling a massless object as having unconventional mass. It just doesn't exist. It's up to the mods atp.

Again if you think that X axis shoots out something with no mass but a finite length that bridges the gap between Point A and Point B it's still unconventional Infinite Attack Speed like in practice you aren't changing anything also this kinda contradicts the statement of "There's no bullet" if you are arguing that it's one long abstract bullet embodying the idea of uniform penetration or whatever.

Like we are just presenting alternatives to something that doesn't need alternatives in the first place.

But there's no evidence of it "shooting out" anything. That's the issue. It's just a materialization of a long beam that is the length of the distance between the muzzle and the target. Because of this, everything is uniformly penetrated.

In any case, I'm too old for this unconventional speed mumbo jumbo, so I'll let the mods decide. Nice talking to ya tho.

 

[Cipher72]

But there's no evidence of it "shooting out" anything. That's the issue. It's just a materialization of a long beam that is the length of the distance between the muzzle and the target. Because of this, everything is uniformly penetrated.

I mean we see him shooting both in the manga and anime and a long beam technically needs to be shot asw but yea it's weird like I said the alternatives are worse imo but yea it's up to the mods either way.

Nice talking to ya tho

Likewise, have a good day/night.