Rescaling the DBZ characters from Frieza's small star level feat?

[Celestial_Pegasus]

My point in all of this is the same thing as my point on the post about the original calc.
Accepting all of these retcon style feats in DBS COMPLETELY melts any sense of coherence in DBZ scaling. The previously used "Cell is NOT a Solar System Buster" post made sense before the retcon, but the retcon messes it up. All the other feats become nonsense.

Kid Buu's vanishing ball was calced twice and never exceeded Star Level . ( Corrected Versio got it at Dwarf Star) Yet Frieza in BASE is Small Star Level? This is insane.

On the contray i see super as being the impetus that lead to upgrading dbz character being more acceptable.Before super many wouldnt accept cell being solar sytem level because that level of power was never shown in the series before but with super it made the progression of power more logical.Dbz characters were more powerful than we thought/were willing to accept but with universal feats being shown solar system becomes more accepted and calcs and powerscaling make it obvious that it is correct.As for kid buu just because his calc came out to be star level doesnt mean its all he was capable of that .

 

[Kavpeny]

@Wade (and others): Respectfully, that is enough. You are, albeit unintentionally, severely derailing the topic. I would strongly prefer that your discussion be put to an end, or continued in another thread.

@topic: It seems most people are in agreement. I will wait a few hours, and then make the upgrades. Hopefully, there will be a larger consensus by then.

 

[Frenchie-123]

Even then, it is still contradictory and inconsistent. Also, I remember Toriyama saying once that the Anime was canon, which throws this into an even MORE ridiculous loop.

Hmm when did he say such a thing.

This image.
Panel 13, 14, and the End translate into this...

"13: For example, drawing an image of a movement in a manga is relatively simple, but to animate this image, you had to decompose the movement and draw all the intermediary movements. That demands a colossal amount of work. (Ok, the example of Kame-sennin might not be the most appropriate...) 14: Of course, those who have read Dragon Ball have noticed that certain stories which are found in the anime didn't existe in the manga. Oolong: What's this? I never saw that in the manga.... END: As one adventure in the manga corresponds to about 10 minutes of animation, and since one episode comprises on average 30 minutes, the entire series of Dragon Ball would have passed by very quickly. The team of animators therefore had to insert some original stories. I admire what they have done, that's a hell of a job! Toriyama: Dragon Ball, it's the anime and the manga""

He has said it on another occasion, if I can find the link I will send you it.

"dragon ball c'est l'animé et le manga " that was just a comercial way to buy dbz bluray in france at the time ..............

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

Cell being Solar System level doesn't make sense because even STRONGER characters never had feats of that level.

For you to say that Small Star Level, Semi-Casual, Base Frieza makes sense is to throw out every other feat past that point that we can quantify.

You are saying that Semi-Casual Base Frieza > Casual Kid Buu.

There are a list of reasons this doesn't make sense, but I don't want to gish-gallop too hard, so I'll keep it to just two, which are linked together.

1) Kid Buu is a character completely based off of the fact he doesn't hold back. He's a crazy and uncontrollable being that DOES NOT chill and hold off on his attacks. This would be a VERY rare occasion if he did hold back.

2) You are assuming that Kid Buu not only held back, but he held back to an INSANE degree. If we take your scaling, and simply assume that Buu is only equal to Perfect Cell, just to low ball and give you a bit of advantage, then that means that he should be Solar System Level.

Using his calced feat and dividing by LOW End Solar System Level, again to give you an advantage, we can get what percentage of his power he was using.

3.5*10^39/(2.24*10^45) = 0.0000015625 %

So, you MUST be assuming that a character who characteristically does not hold back was lowering himself to only 0.0000015625 % of his power, with NO other motivation to do so.

That is on the LOW end. Meaning he would have had to hold back MUCH more for you to be correct.

Occam's Razor; What is more likely? DBS retconned a feat and made it inconsistent, or ALL power scaling and feats in DBZ are innacurate?

 

[Frenchie-123]

oh gosh wade ......

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Wade drop the topic Lord Kavpeny as already told you to drop it go make a thread about if you want just dont derail this thread anymore.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

"dragon ball c'est l'animé et le manga " that was just a comercial way to buy dbz bluray in france at the time ..............

Okay, so what does that prove? Lol

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

@Wade (and others): Respectfully, that is enough. You are, albeit unintentionally, severely derailing the topic. I would strongly prefer that your discussion be put to an end, or continued in another thread.

I'm sorry if it appears that way. I am just trying to show that the results of this calc, by no faults witht he calc itself, should NOT be used to powerscale. It destroys all previous calcs and feats.

I just had multiple people to deal with and they kept harping on different points I made. I kinda went off on seperate rabbit trails. That wasn't my intention though.

 

[Salavtore]

please.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

@Wade drop the topic Lord Kavpeny as already told you to drop it go make a thread about if you want just dont derail this thread anymore.

I am on topic. That entire comment was about the way the power scaling everyone is agreeing on falls apart with feats like the ones from Buu.

 

[Frenchie-123]

"dragon ball c'est l'animé et le manga " that was just a comercial way to buy dbz bluray in france at the time ..............

Okay, so what does that prove? Lol
translation :

akira : " give me money , i need money goood yes buy the new dbz dvd "

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Wade Kali Strine- the scaling in Dragon Ball has been a mess since BoG came out, please make a separate thread to prove your points. We dont need to know about the retcons, every serious fan knows about it. Buu saga is absolutely not relevant here. This thread will only affect android and cell saga characters

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

Wade Kali Strine- the scaling in Dragon Ball has been a mess since BoG came out, please make a separate thread to prove your points. We dont need to know about the retcons, every serious fan knows about it. Buu saga is absolutely not relevant here. This thread will only affect android and cell saga characters

This thread is COMPLETELY based off of a retcon. They are going to up EVERY CHARACTER'S stats past Namek Saga based on a retcon.

 

[Salavtore]

Problem?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

This thread is COMPLETELY based off of a retcon. They are going to up EVERY CHARACTER'S stats past Namek Saga based on a retcon.

Why does it matter if it's a retcon? This isn't a forum about quality of writing in manga/anime. We only care about powers and stats here. If you have issues with scaling, please create a new thread. We will take it seriously. But not here

 

[Elvis_Adika]

I predict that Wade will suddenly create a huge argument in this thread.

LOL XD

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

This thread is COMPLETELY based off of a retcon. They are going to up EVERY CHARACTER'S stats past Namek Saga based on a retcon.

Why does it matter if it's a retcon? This isn't a forum about quality of writing in manga/anime. We only care about powers and stats here. If you have issues with scaling, please create a new thread. We will take it seriously. But not here
The retcon is inconsistent and forces an outlier into the series. That outlier/retcon is literally the entire reason these new scalings are being made. I thought that would be relevant enough, since it is literally the basis for this post.

Sorry.

 

[Salavtore]

Your prediction is true.

Also, to point out something to people who may complain. DBS is the new "canon" of the DB universe. Toryiama said it himself and its best that we use the updated canon for our calculations. It make sesnse to use this new frieza star level calc because there were characters after his saga way stronger than him.

(Not sure by what extent though, leave that to the wiki's calculators.)

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Wade Kali Strine- the scaling in Dragon Ball has been a mess since BoG came out, please make a separate thread to prove your points. We dont need to know about the retcons, every serious fan knows about it. Buu saga is absolutely not relevant here. This thread will only affect android and cell saga characters

This thread is COMPLETELY based off of a retcon. They are going to up EVERY CHARACTER'S stats past Namek Saga based on a retcon.

In the manga they said Kid buu destroyed lots of celestial objects over a few years which could be galaxies, stars and planets and then there is the anime(DB kai) where Kid Buu destroy a galaxy over a few years. Which is a multi-solar system Feat. Cell solar system level statement was backed up BY OFFICAL GUIDEBOOKS, anime and manga if someone lied about there power i don't think a guidebook will be made to prove a lie. In the Bardock Manga i believe their was also a Frieza busting Planet Vegeta feat which would mean we are going to complete ignore someone feat just to be consistant and it doesn't retcon any feat at all it just keep going higher and higher in strength from planet level, small star to Large Star, Solar system level, Multi-solar system level, Multi-galaxy level, Universal and so on. But yea i agree some stuff in DBZ can be inconsistant.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

A bunch of nonsense

Statements and guidebooks are not accepted when they are far above feats.

The Bardock Manga version wasn't Star Level.

K.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

A bunch of nonsense

Statements and guidebooks are not accepted when they are far above feats.
The Bardock Manga version wasn't Star Level.

K.

Wasn't you the one who said Anime>Manga and Guidebooks are allowed if it does not contradict Stuff anyways i am done.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

A bunch of nonsense

Statements and guidebooks are not accepted when they are far above feats.
The Bardock Manga version wasn't Star Level.

K.

You're derailing the thread dude, please create another one. You will receive warning if you persist.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Wade why are you still arguing about inconsistencies and outliers it isnt relevant to this thread if you want to discuss that create another thread your derailing this one.You have been told to drop it yet you still persist you are basically asking for a warning.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I agree on the changes for the DBZ profiles outlined by Lord Kavpeny, it sounds accurate to me.

 

[Minstry_of_pain]

What about tien holding back semi perfect cell are we leaving where it is or do s he get scaled to base freiza's supernova. Just was wondering about the feat itself.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

Wasn't you the one who said Anime>Manga and Guidebooks are allowed if it does not contradict Stuff anyways i am done.

What a disgusting Straw Man.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

I get it guys. Showing that the scalings on this post are fallacious is not relevant to this post. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Sheoth]

I get it guys. Showing that the scalings on this post are fallacious is not relevant to this post. Makes perfect sense.

Lord Kavpeny already asked to take this up in another thread. Anything not pertaining to Small Star level Frieza (SS level Cell, Multi-Galaxy level Goku) is irrelevant and is considered derailment.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If we implement this, I'm totally on board with Kav's list.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

I WAS talking about Small Star Level Frieza, buuuuuuuut K.

Even if I did make another thread, you wouldn't change shit anyways. It wouldn't matter what I said. You guys get stuck on stuff and there is nothing I could do to change that.

 

[Sheoth]

Suit yourself...

 

[Tzula]

Can someone explain/link me the whole Scaleing idea or whatever?

Im confused..

 

[Salavtore]

Kav's list is pretty spot on imo too.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i dont think anyone other than wade disagrees with the list so far

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Everything looks in order to me.

Damn DB has been getting a lot of upgrades lately.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Well...this certainly exceeds all of my expectatives, but the calc is legit and it does scale well with the consequent feats and statements (SPC being SS, and Kid Buu being M-SS). So, I agree with Kav's suggestion.

 

[Kavpeny]

All right, so there is a larger consensus.

I'll make the upgrades then.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hold on guys, now that piccolo is at least large star level by buu saga (and likely a bit above by ROF), shud taagoma's tier be broadened to at least High 4-C, likely/ possibly 4-B?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

hold on guys, now that piccolo is at least large star level by buu saga (and likely a bit above by ROF), shud taagoma's tier be broadened to at least High 4-C, likely/ possibly 4-B?

Probably? He did curb Piccolo, pretty hard.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Finally we got this implemented.