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Self-evident intelligence revisions thread

It is mainly a listing of combat feats, but I would say that "At least Above Average, possibly Gifted" might work.

Also, I tried to clean up the quoted text structure quite a bit. The source should preferably be updated accordingly.
 
Huh, I believe we have many characters with similar supernatural combat feats that have Genius or plain Gifted ratings because of that. It's not like this is one of those characters that only relies on physical strength to win and have no brain, this one is all about strategy, preparation, abilities and strenght ofc. And given the description provided I don't think anything less than Gifted is warranted here. So i kinda disagree with your evaluation.
 
Well, the descriptions are mostly quite unspecific regarding the intelligence feats involved. Simply beating up hordes of powerful adversaties does not require particularly high general intelligence, even if combat skill is obviously necessary.
 
Yes, I agree that more intelligence feats in combat should be necessary, as far as I can see only the ability to analyze his enemies to find their weaknesses while facing other adversities could be guaranteed as intelligence, but it is not specified if all that was at the same time or how much it took him to find the weakness of his enemies and another feat could be the Presage that is more a prediction and possibly the preparation and not forgetting that there is clearly a great deal of combat strategy involved.
Maybe @SamanPatou can give more context.
 
Yes, that would be appreciated.
 
Genius. He has proven himself throughout the series to be an extremely skilled strategist in terms of his ability to analyse enemies and form plans on the fly to take them down. Yomi valued his input and thinking ability to such an extent that he desired his assistance even after learning that it was Kurama himself who hired the assassin who blinded him.
This is Gifted, there is nothing that implies a Genius rating here, and according to @Antvasima words "Being skilled strategist alone is enough for Gifted." And this is another case where you don't know how long it takes him to analyze his enemies and form plans against them. Although I doubt it would be quick or instantaneous as I think it would be clearly marked in the description. If Gifted is accepted, then Yu rating should be changed to Gifted as well and the 2 should be removed from the Genius examples of intelligence page.
 
Thank you. I removed their entries from our Intelligence page as well.
 
Dereck03 said:
Maybe @SamanPatou can give more context.
Click to expand...
As a platform videogame, there isn't much to evaluate in terms of specific feats, since everything is adapted to the gameplay, but basically we have a single man who journeyed 8/9 times through the aforementioned places fighting the aforementioned monsters all by himself, including areas where many monsters were coming at him while he had to deal with environmental hazards, moving platforms and such, with some impressive stuff like sailing a sea at storm on a raft while dealing with enemies and obstacles (something basically impossible for real life standards)
In every adventure he uses old and new weapons, spells and such, which is already quite impressive even for the sheer amount of things he can use with great skill.

In the near future, I will make two blogs detailing the monsters he fought and the locations he went through, but for the sake of saving space I tried to shorten the description to the most important elements, as other sections of the profile give an idea of his accomplishments.

But in shorts, we've got a lone knight pulled a one-man army thing by travelling through far away lands and dangerous places all alone, while everything around him was trying to murder him, from the dirtiest zombie to giant dragons, and he managed to do this about 6 times.

Figuring out weaknesses is quite unspecific by default, but basically the game requires you to learn the patterns of enemies and bosses, and the latter always have a weak spot to hit or smth else.
But the average situation is him entering a room, which is then locked behind him, and the monster pops out and starts the battle, so It's clearly a situation where he has to think and react accordingly very fast.

I think gifted is the very minimun, since that's clearly something a normal man wouldn't be able to achieve and I'd call it near impossible in real life.

Also, thank you Ant for the corrections.
 
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Then i'll go with Ant's suggestion "At least Above Average likely/possibly Gifted", leaning more towards likely.
 
I don't think anything less than gifted is warranted here, given the sheer amount of things they guy has.
For starters, he's very good at using 20+ different weapons, and is able to switch between them on the fly depending on the situation, and toss in other 15+ spells he also knows and uses in tag with said weapons.
We have crazy skills in acrobatics (which can be read in the draft I linked) and a mastery in seamanship that breaches the impossible (still according to what I've mentioned)
Then we have survivalism, quick thinking, adaptation and general cleverness for dealing with everything I've already mentioned, couples with a ton of experience.

We give gifted to people with far less abilities and less impressive feats, my guy is basically a polymath and his accomplishments are most likely impossible for realistic standards.
 
SamanPatou said:
I don't think anything less than gifted is warranted here,
Click to expand...
Dereck03 said:
I don't think anything less than Gifted is warranted here.
Click to expand...
SamanPatou said:
We give gifted to people with far less abilities and less impressive feats,
Click to expand...
Dereck03 said:
I believe we have many characters with similar supernatural combat feats that have Genius or plain Gifted ratings because of that
Click to expand...
I share the same opinion as you, at first i was fine with rating him as Genius, but after analyzing him more I'm more inclined to keep him in Gifted. Although I don't rule out an "At least Gifted, possibly Genius."
 
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The problem is that virtually all of his feats are combat-related, and we tend to separate fighting skill from general intelligence. Just look at Goku for example.

Maybe "At least Above Average in general. At least Gifted, likely Genius in combat." would work?
 
We tend to be generous in regards to gifted ratings, and we give it to characters who stand out only in specific academic fields, reasoning abilities or such, while being average or above average in everything else.
I don't think we should consider combat as anything different, unless the character underperforms in general intelligence, considering all the mental skills that come from being a great warrior.

Like, in this case Arthur isn't just good with weapons, magic and combat, but is also a survivalist, an exceptional sailor and has gathered more traveling and battling experience than most real life adventurers or warriors could ever achieve in one or two lifetimes, without even considering the oddities and supernatural elements.
The fact that he was all alone shouldn't also be underestimated, given what he went through without outside support, and nothing hints at him lacking in general intelligence.
 
I definitely think that we should continue to make a distinction between combat skills and general academic intelligence, or we would end up with tons of extremely exaggerated statistics, including Genius-level Luffy, Naruto, and Goku.

We cannot mess up our entire system just because somebody likes a specific character.

Also, when there is a blatant dichotomy between academic intelligence and common sense, we rate them separately as well. Just look at Lum and Doctor Doofenschmirtz for example.
 
I agree when it comes to either genius or above ratings, or when a character blatantly underperforms in general intelligence, but so far we've handled gifted ratings differently, giving characters such rating overall when they stand out in something specific and are average or above average intelligent in everything else.

Like, this guy has other qualities that aren't inherent to a skilled warrior, such as seamanship, survivalism, the ability and cleverness to explore wild and dangerous places of all kind on his own, planning and preparing ahead of the time, all things which require more than just being a good warriorñ.
And still, being a gifted warrior requires as many mental skills and flexibility as being a gifted lawyer, detective, leader, businessman, conman etc.., all kind of people for which we don't make a fuss over being plain gifted if their feats grant so, because, again, I'm not talking about strictly genius or anything.
 
A dichotomy in intelligence should be proved, not be the default assumption. We don't rate all scientist characters as "Average, Genius in regards to (field)" unless they have actual showings of the opposite. Arthur in fact has shown a great deal of versatility in things he should by all reason have barely any experience in as a knight and there is absolutely no reason to think he's an idiot or someone of middling intelligence who just happens to be really good at fighting. That is very much unlike those shonen protagonists.
 
If a character does not remarkably stand out in terms of general intelligence, but is supernaturally talented in martial arts only, such as Kenshiro, which is a very common plot convention within fiction, we should not rate them as Extraordinary Genius in general intelligence. Explicitly proving that they are not Extraordinary Geniuses or Geniuses, due to failing a math test for example, is not necessary in that regard.

However, given that this character seems to be skilled in general going by Saman's latest above description, not just in swinging a sword, I suppose that we can rate him as Gifted, yes, but good explanations for this need to be provided.
 
Antvasima said:
f a character does not remarkably stand out in terms of general intelligence, but is supernaturally talented in martial arts only, such as Kenshiro
Click to expand...
It's not that simple with Kenshiro, I've read 54 chapters so far and it is evident that he also has some medical knowledge as well with using Hokuto Shinken, one such example would be restoring Rin's voice. His mentor also uses it for medical purposes too
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
It's not that simple with Kenshiro, I've read 54 chapters so far and it is evident that he also has some medical knowledge as well with using Hokuto Shinken, one such example would be restoring Rin's voice. His mentor also uses it for medical purposes too
Click to expand...
Well, I have no problem with him being listed with Gifted general intelligence or somesuch.

Speaking of which, was the revision for the Fist of the North Star characters' intelligence sections ever applied in this regard?
 
So, does anyone know what level this would place the Ogdru Hem at in terms of intelligence?

Despite their animalistic nature, the Ogdru Hem are deceptively intelligent. They have vastly powerful wills, easily capable of crushing a human mind, and often show a grasp of psychology and neurology which they use to manipulate and control mortals, evident where one of them was able to puppeteer a Spetsnaz soldier (even going so far as to replicate his accent) and use him to probe Johann Kraus for something to use as emotional leverage. In addition to biology, they additionally show excellent aptitude in scientific and magical disciplines (their very language is a pure expression of higher mathematics) and they seem to have an understanding of machinery, as Sadu-Hem brought down a helicopter and disabled the cameras and power in a building through unknown means while another Ogdru Hem was able to remotely destroy a computer console. They can fool humans by disguising themselves as such and some of them are even capable of competently fighting beings of similar size and strength. Once they attain full size though, they typically abandon subtlety.
Click to expand...
 
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You can't ping staff, just wait a few hours till Ant came online so he can evualuate, no need to hurry.
 
Rigby

Below Average (Rigby's intelligence is in sharp contrast to Mordecai's laid-back and smarter personality. He is highly immature, impulsive, arrogant, and lazy, causing him to act younger than his age, and almost all of his plans end up backfiring, usually nearly destroying his friends' lives or his own. More Smarter shows Rigby never finished high school, to the point where he kept misspelling "diploma". However, as the series progressed, Rigby became more responsible and thoughtful to an extent, sometimes even doing his work without having to be told). Above Average concerning video games. Genius with BrainMAX (could make walls of advanced math), Extraordinary Genius with sufficient BrainMAX (Skips was a caveman compared to him; developed a new language in moments, which only someone of similar intellect could comprehend).
Click to expand...
 
Armorchompy said:
The expression of higher mathematics could get them to Genius, it's kinda hard to determine just from that, but I think Gifted minimum works here.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but scans should be attached to the description, is they aren't already featured on the profile in some way.
 
SamanPatou said:
I agree with this, but scans should be attached to the description, is they aren't already featured on the profile in some way.
Click to expand...
Right, here we go:

Gifted, possibly Genius. Despite their animalistic nature, the Ogdru Hem are deceptively intelligent. They have vastly powerful wills, easily capable of crushing a human mind, and often show a grasp of psychology and neurology which they use to manipulate and control mortals, evident where one of them was able to puppeteer a Spetsnaz soldier (even going so far as to replicate his accent) and use him to probe Johann Kraus for something to use as emotional leverage. In addition to biology, they additionally show excellent aptitude in scientific and magical disciplines (their very language is a pure expression of higher mathematics) and they seem to have an understanding of machinery, as Sadu-Hem brought down a helicopter and disabled the cameras and power in a building through unknown means while another Ogdru Hem was able to remotely destroy a computer console. They can fool humans by disguising themselves as such and some of them are even capable of competently fighting beings of similar size and strength. Once they attain full size though, they typically abandon subtlety.
 
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For some reason these links don't work.
Also, do you have scans of the higher matematics thing?
 
The intelligence ratings suggested above for the Ogdru Hem and Rigby seem fine to me.
 
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