Shadow Slave Low 1-A upgrade

[Seraphor12]

Hello, this CRT is for The Void from Shadow Slave which can be upgraded to Low 1-A based on BDE type 2 existence. All of the info about it is in the blog. For this scale @Lycenum_lycopersicum @Verezen @Super_Nova @BestMGQScalerEver @NITROMonkey1000 have helped me.

Shadow Slave Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

Spoiler: Summary

Void Beings exist within the Void, which is repeatedly described as boundless, endless, everlasting, and eternal, with no fixed structure or defined boundaries. It is also stated to be everchanging, not limited by space or time, existing in a pure state of chaos or emptiness with no frame of reference. The Void predates all reality and exists before and beyond the Flame of Desire, which later gave birth to the gods and the structured multiverse. As explicitly stated, even the very concept of infinity is inherently tied to the concept of space, and both of these were created by the gods alongside time and other Absolute Laws. In other words, the entire framework of dimensionality, including space, time, and even infinity itself, is something constructed after and beneath the Void. These laws did not originally exist meaning that the Void is not contained within them, but that they were made in response to its nature. Because of this, the Void can be understood as a realm that is too large and unstructured to be described using conventional dimensional systems. It contains no metrics or dimensionality, the very framework of space and time is a subsystem created after it. So, it matches with the Variant One of BDE type 2 definition so the Void should be Low 1-A with Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2.

Agree: Verezen, Lycenum_lycopersicum, BestMGQScalerEver, NITROMonkey1000, Robo432343
Neutral: Super_Nova
Disagree: LOTM_Historian

 

[LOTM_Historian]

So you're telling me that Mountain Level Sunny, who tanks Nothingness (the fog on the hollow mountains), the thing that sealed the Void (which you're saying is L1-A and the source of everything in the verse) is actually L1-A now?

Mountain Level Saint Sunny = L1-A

Anyways, the Void’s scaling is weird, it was sealed by a combination of nothingness, the universe and the laws the gods created (such as time, space directions etc).

I disagree with it being L1-A.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So you're telling me that Mountain Level Sunny, who tanks Nothingness (the fog on the hollow mountains), the thing that sealed the Void (which you're saying is L1-A and the source of everything in the verse) is actually L1-A now?

This is pretty much only an issue if it was 1-A. Plus this is just an extremely small "portion" of Nothingness that seeps into the world so there wouldn't be any low 1-A scaling there.

Anyways, the Void’s scaling is weird, it was sealed by a combination of nothingness, the universe and the laws the gods created (such as time, space directions etc).

This is already addressed by the blog no?

 

[Seraphor12]

This is already addressed by the blog no?

do you think he have read the blog

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

do you think he have read the blog

no because he had it (the post) on standby

 

[LOTM_Historian]

no because he had it (the post) on standby

I read the blog like hours ago

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I read the blog like hours ago

Ok but then you'd know that only Void beings were the ones only ever sealed and not the Void itself since the voids imprisonment seems to be in context to only actually be the isolation from the Flame through nothingness

 

[LOTM_Historian]

This is pretty much only an issue if it was 1-A. Plus this is just an extremely small "portion" of Nothingness that seeps into the world so there wouldn't be any low 1-A scaling there.

I mean, nothingness which is seemingly portrayed as 3D mist which flows on top of mountains binds the supposed boundless, endless, everlasting, and eternal L1-A void.

 

[Seraphor12]

So you're telling me that Mountain Level Sunny, who tanks Nothingness (the fog on the hollow mountains), the thing that sealed the Void (which you're saying is L1-A and the source of everything in the verse) is actually L1-A now?

Mountain Level Saint Sunny = L1-A

Anyways, the Void’s scaling is weird, it was sealed by a combination of nothingness, the universe and the laws the gods created (such as time, space directions etc).

I disagree with it being L1-A.

So you're telling me that "Mountain Level Sunny" = Low 1-A because he tanked some fog?
The fog =/= the actual Void. That fog is not even the original nothingness iirc. It’s like calling someone "Universal" because they survived rain made of particles from the Big Bang. And about the sealing part: The Void wasn’t “sealed” inside space and time, space and time were created to keep it out. The gods used “nothingness” as a buffer between Flame and Void (Source). That doesn’t mean the Void was contained it means they had to separate flame from it because it was too OP to handle.

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Ok but then you'd know that only Void beings were the ones only ever sealed and not the Void itself since the voids imprisonment seems to be in context to only actually be the isolation from the Flame through nothingness

What? The void itself was sealed, it was just imperfect bc of the dream god.

 

[Seraphor12]

What? The void itself was sealed, it was just imperfect bc of the dream god.

I mean, nothingness which is seemingly portrayed as 3D mist which flows on top of mountains binds the supposed boundless, endless, everlasting, and eternal L1-A void.

Idk who told you that but gods just separated flame from the void to end the conflict and surrounded it by nothingness which was just for stopping void beings from entering in.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

What? The void itself was sealed, it was just imperfect bc of the dream god.

"Our world was created by the gods, who were born from the Flame of Desire. But a flame does indeed need fuel to burn — it cannot exist in a vacuum. So, what fuel was there for the Flame of Desire to burn, all those eons ago, before time even existed?" He whispered: "The… Void?" Nephis nodded. "That would make sense. An everlasting, endless source of fuel for an immortal, inexhaustible flame." "But there was also an irrevocable conflict between the ever-changing Void and the eternally constant Desire. So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it… separating the Flame from the Void by nothing. Now, the Flame burns in a vacuum, deprived of its fuel... of its source. So, the Flame is waning, and at the same time, the Flame is sustaining itself, by itself... from itself." Cassie spoke at that moment, her voice sounding soft in the silence of the council chamber: "But it does sustain itself. It's a closed, self-sufficient cycle. We are all a part of the Flame, and our own desires fuel it. The Puppeteer tried its hardest to paint that truth as something vile and appalling, but I think it's the opposite. To me, it seems… it seems beautiful. A flame that ensures itself, burning brightly with human striving and longing..."

This scan literally just recontextualizes what we knew into it actually just being isolated by Nothingness. If the Flame was imposing itself unto the Void itself then it'd still have access to the Void, and not be isolated from it, and still have fuel source, etc.

 

[Pluto321]

following

 

[LOTM_Historian]

This scan literally just recontextualizes what we knew into it actually just being isolated by Nothingness. If the Flame was imposing itself unto the Void itself then it'd still have access to the Void, and not be isolated from it, and still have fuel source, etc.

So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it… separating the Flame from the Void by nothing. Now, the Flame burns in a vacuum, deprived of its fuel... of its source

So the gods sealed the void FIRST before separating the flame from it.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

This scan literally just recontextualizes what we knew into it actually just being isolated by Nothingness. If the Flame was imposing itself unto the Void itself then it'd still have access to the Void, and not be isolated from it, and still have fuel source, etc.

What exemplified the law of imperfection here was the fact that influences from the Void could still reach reality through the Dream God's dreams of the world seeping into reality.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

So the gods sealed the void FIRST before separating the flame from it.

So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it… separating the Flame from the Void by nothing.

This is saying the imprisonment IS the separation. It'saying that the Void was "imprisoned" and that it was nothing that did it. reading comprehension issue ngl

 

[LOTM_Historian]

What exemplified the law of imperfection here was the fact that influences from the Void could still reach reality through the Dream God's dreams of the world seeping into reality.

This is saying the imprisonment IS the separation. It'saying that the Void was "imprisoned" and that it was nothing that did it. reading comprehension issue ngl

Aren't these two statements contradictory?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Aren't these two statements contradictory?

Bro. The separation isn't perfect..? I mean that's why nightmare creatures and stuff like that exist in first place..

 

[LOTM_Historian]

So you're telling me that "Mountain Level Sunny" = Low 1-A because he tanked some fog?
The fog =/= the actual Void. That fog is not even the original nothingness iirc. It’s like calling someone "Universal" because they survived rain made of particles from the Big Bang. And about the sealing part: The Void wasn’t “sealed” inside space and time, space and time were created to keep it out. The gods used “nothingness” as a buffer between Flame and Void (Source). That doesn’t mean the Void was contained it means they had to separate flame from it because it was too OP to handle.

I'm a bit confused about how 3D mist is supposedly sealing BDE Type 2 realms. This mist is clearly being influenced by dimensionality and by objects within 3D space. Wouldn't the fact that the mist is affected by 3D objects imply that the void it's sealing is also influenced by 3D space?

 

[Seraphor12]

I'm a bit confused about how 3D mist is supposedly sealing BDE Type 2 realms. This mist is clearly being influenced by dimensionality and by objects within 3D space. Wouldn't the fact that the mist is affected by 3D objects imply that the void it's sealing is also influenced by 3D space?

Sealing? Dude that thing is just used to cover up the so called vaccum in which flame is burning as it's self sufficient cycle. Which just stops the void beings from seeking into the reality which they're alien to. the mist which isn't even entirety of nothingness btw so saying it disqualifies it is super disingenuous

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I'm a bit confused about how 3D mist is supposedly sealing BDE Type 2 realms. This mist is clearly being influenced by dimensionality and by objects within 3D space. Wouldn't the fact that the mist is affected by 3D objects imply that the void it's sealing is also influenced by 3D space?

Really this is just being way too hung up on small details by making it sound like something huge. This "3-D mist" is
1. Not actually mist just that it takes a mist-like form when slipping through. Plus hardly a disqualifier because even if it was low 1-A through isolating from the Void, low 1-A is divisible.
2. Just small slippages into reality
3. It's not the Void itself. Nothing is not affecting the Void itself. Nothing is ISOLATING the Flame from the Void. It is not actually changing its fundamental qualities.

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Really this is just being way too hung up on small details by making it sound like something huge. This "3-D mist" is
1. Not actually mist just that it takes a mist-like form when slipping through. Plus hardly a disqualifier because even if it was low 1-A through isolating from the Void, low 1-A is divisible.
2. Just small slippages into reality
3. It's not the Void itself. Nothing is not affecting the Void itself. Nothing is ISOLATING the Flame from the Void. It is not actually changing its fundamental qualities.

The problem is that you are arguing BDE type 2 via being "too large" specifically as the reason for L1-A

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The problem is that you are arguing BDE type 2 via being "too large" specifically as the reason for L1-A

You're entirely missing the point dude.

 

[Napoleondevious]

Following ig

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Really this is just being way too hung up on small details by making it sound like something huge. This "3-D mist" is
1. Not actually mist just that it takes a mist-like form when slipping through. Plus hardly a disqualifier because even if it was low 1-A through isolating from the Void, low 1-A is divisible.
2. Just small slippages into reality
3. It's not the Void itself. Nothing is not affecting the Void itself. Nothing is ISOLATING the Flame from the Void. It is not actually changing its fundamental qualities.

I went back and reviewed a lot of the scans, and honestly, I think you guys are being heavily influenced by framing bias. If “Nothing” truly isn’t affecting the Void, then why is it stopping the Void and Void creatures from reaching the Flame? That doesn’t even make sense, man.

Sealing? Dude that thing is just used to cover up the so called vaccum in which flame is burning as it's self sufficient cycle.

It's consistently referred to as "sealing" or "being bound." Even if you check G3’s Discord and read the author Q&A, he explicitly states that the Void is sealed.

For example, the author stating the void was sealed around the same time humans appeared

same with this one lol

Other examples of the void being sealed

another

i can keep going ig

so saying it disqualifies it is super disingenuous

For L1-A tiers, we need to be extra careful, so I'm just pointing out some glaring issues.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I went back and reviewed a lot of the scans, and honestly, I think you guys are being heavily influenced by framing bias. If “Nothing” truly isn’t affecting the Void, then why is it stopping the Void and Void creatures from reaching the Flame? That doesn’t even make sense, man.

Again you’re missing the damn point. Nothing is created by the Gods to isolate the Flame from the Void. It is not affecting the Void by making it dimensioned. It is just a wall or enclosed area so that the Flame can be mostly independent of barring limitations from law of imperfection. Maybe you’d have an actual argument for anti feats if 1-A was being argued for.

It's consistently referred to as "sealing" or "being bound." Even if you check G3’s Discord and read the author Q&A, he explicitly states that the Void is sealed.

For L1-A tiers, we need to be extra careful, so I'm just pointing out some glaring issues.

Bringing up WoG is just poisoning the well dude. You know better than this. I know you know that G3 himself said that only what’s in the work is canon. Again this “seal” was recontextualized to be isolation from the Void and not the Flame imposing concepts of reality on the void. Like again the Flame doesn’t have access to the Void explicitly which would make no sense if it made the Void spatial and temporal (spatial and temporal things literally participate in the flame as it sustains all existence too and all that falls under its concepts)

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Again you’re missing the damn point. Nothing is created by the Gods to isolate the Flame from the Void. It is not affecting the Void by making it dimensioned. It is just a wall or enclosed area so that the Flame can be mostly independent of barring limitations from law of imperfection. Maybe you’d have an actual argument for anti feats if 1-A was being argued for.

Nothingness itself is literally dimensioned (by 3D), so it affecting the void means the void is dimensioned.

Bringing up WoG is just poisoning the well dude.

Again... this is on top of what the novel has said previously...

Again this “seal” was recontextualized to be isolation from the Void and not the Flame imposing concepts of reality on the void. Like again the Flame doesn’t have access to the Void explicitly which would make no sense if it made the Void spatial and temporal (spatial and temporal things literally participate in the flame as it sustains all existence too and all that falls under its concepts)

This is where your framing bias comes in. Nowhere in the scan you posted here does it say that isolation = imprisonment.

 

[Seraphor12]

I went back and reviewed a lot of the scans, and honestly, I think you guys are being heavily influenced by framing bias. If “Nothing” truly isn’t affecting the Void, then why is it stopping the Void and Void creatures from reaching the Flame? That doesn’t even make sense, man.

Because it's not about affecting or suppressing the Void, it's about preventing interaction. The Void remains unchanged.

It's consistently referred to as "sealing" or "being bound." Even if you check G3’s Discord and read the author Q&A, he explicitly states that the Void is sealed.

For example, the author stating the void was sealed around the same time humans appeared

same with this one lol

Other examples of the void being sealed

another

i can keep going ig

these comments are from 2022 or 2024, you missed the point that we never knew before in the story about the process of sealing or what exactly happened. It is recontextualized.

 

[Seraphor12]

Nothingness itself is literally dimensioned (by 3D), so it's affecting the void means the void is dimensioned.

Sorry what?

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Sorry what?

Nothingness is influenced by 3D mountains, terrain, and people, so it's clearly NOT BDE

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Nothingness itself is literally dimensioned (by 3D), so it's affecting the void means the void is dimensioned.

I'm actually gonna crash out dude. **** off with this, genuinely. This is like saying the entire verse caps at 3-D because Nothingness isolates the Flame (which encompasses space and time). Nothingness is NOT 3-D. What we see is a vague misty version of it that seeps into reality (without any stated dimensionality just "lel its portrayed as mist so therefore caps at 3-D"). It is NOT the entirety of nothingness.

Again... this is on top of what the novel has said previously...

So? Just dont use WoG.

This is where your framing bias comes in. Nowhere in the scan you posted here does it say that isolation = imprisonment.

Are you able to read? Do you not know what this is saying?

So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it… separating the Flame from the Void by nothing.

1. So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it…
2. separating the Flame from the Void by nothing.
This is very explicitly saying that the separation is a result of the imprisonment. It is not saying that the void was sealed first THEN it was isolated. It's saying it was "imprisoned" due to the separation that happened. The separation and imprisonment are inseparable to each other.

 

[Seraphor12]

Nothingness itself is literally dimensioned (by 3D), so it affecting the void means the void is dimensioned.

I think you are confusing low 1A with qualitative superiority. In tiering system faq it's said that
To better understand the concept, consider the fact that all tiers from [B]11-C[/B] to [B]Low 1-A[/B] can ultimately be bridged together by summing up smaller things, and can likewise be decomposed down into these smaller constituents. For example, a mathematical space with an inaccessible cardinal's worth of dimensions (Well into [B]High 1-B+[/B]) is reducible to the individual elements comprising it, each of which is a 0-dimensional point.
So low 1A even being touched by lower dimensional things shouldn't be a problem for it

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I think you are confusing low 1A with qualitative superiority. In tiering system faq it's said that
To better understand the concept, consider the fact that all tiers from [B]11-C[/B] to [B]Low 1-A[/B] can ultimately be bridged together by summing up smaller things, and can likewise be decomposed down into these smaller constituents. For example, a mathematical space with an inaccessible cardinal's worth of dimensions (Well into [B]High 1-B+[/B]) is reducible to the individual elements comprising it, each of which is a 0-dimensional point.
So low 1A even being touched by lower dimensional things shouldn't be a problem for it

And this ^. Nothingness is also first and foremost created by the Gods so even if it was dimensioned there's nothing contradicting it being created with low 1-A capability. You can have dimensioned things scaling to low 1-A without making the low 1-A thing it's scaling to dimensioned.

 

[LOTM_Historian]

Before I address your other points I do want to bring up another issue that the L1-A Void has:

Void Beings and the Void have the same ontology but some Void Beings can resist the supposed concept of space by powerlevel which implies that the void most likely not BDE type 2 via size.

The issue is that the laws affect the specific qualities that both the Void and the Beings both share the same. They can't restrain those qualities because of the Void’s vastness. But it seems like some Void Beings not only get affected, but can also break out, resist and negate the effects through seemingly powerlevel alone.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Before I address your other points I do want to bring up another issue that the L1-A Void has:

Void Beings and the Void have the same ontology but some Void Beings can resist the supposed concept of space by powerlevel which implies that the void most likely not BDE type 2 via size.

The issue is that the laws affect the specific qualities that both the Void and the Beings both share the same. They can't restrain those qualities because of the Void’s vastness. But it seems like some Void Beings not only get affected, but can also break out, resist and negate the effects through seemingly powerlevel alone.

Scans please.

 

[LOTM_Historian]

I'm actually gonna crash out dude. **** off with this, genuinely.

Bro calm down

This is like saying the entire verse caps at 3-D because Nothingness isolates the Flame (which encompasses space and time). Nothingness is NOT 3-D. What we see is a vague misty version of it that seeps into reality (without any stated dimensionality just "lel its portrayed as mist so therefore caps at 3-D"). It is NOT the entirety of nothingness.

No, I'm not saying the verse caps at 3D. I'm saying, since Nothingness clearly has 3D properties, it's not BDE. (so it cant affect things that are aspatial and atemporal)

So? Just dont use WoG.

I mean it's just supporting evidence bruh.

Are you able to read? Do you not know what this is saying?
1. So, the gods waged a war against the Void and eventually imprisoned it…
2. separating the Flame from the Void by nothing.
This is very explicitly saying that the separation is a result of the imprisonment. It is not saying that the void was sealed first THEN it was isolated. It's saying it was "imprisoned" due to the separation that happened. The separation and imprisonment are inseparable to each other.

You're misreading the sentence. It says the gods "waged war… and eventually imprisoned [the Void], separating the Flame from the Void by nothing." Grammatically, "separating" is a result of the imprisonment, not its cause.

Example: "He closed the door, locking the noise outside." So no, the separation didn’t cause the imprisonment, the imprisonment caused the separation. They’re linked, but not simultaneous or inseparable in origin. You're reversing the cause and effect

 

[Seraphor12]

Void Beings and the Void have the same ontology but some Void Beings can resist the supposed concept of space by powerlevel which implies that the void most likely not BDE type 2 via size.

ah, resisting the concept of space is a supporting feat for BDE type 2? Also void beings are ontologically dependent on void.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

You're misreading the sentence. It says the gods "waged war… and eventually imprisoned [the Void], separating the Flame from the Void by nothing." Grammatically, "separating" is a result of the imprisonment, not its cause.

Example: "He closed the door, locking the noise outside." So no, the separation didn’t cause the imprisonment, the imprisonment caused the separation. They’re linked, but not simultaneous or inseparable in origin. You're reversing the cause and effect

I wonder hmm? If the Flame was separated from the Void, why continue to argue that it was bound by absolute laws of space and time? Is that not fundamentally contradictory? I mean all spatial and temporal things participate in and are sustained by the flame itself as it is existence itself. Why not just have the Void as a fuel source if it still had access to it? If the Void is supposedly sealed by spatial and temporal characteristics then how do you reconcile the fact that these attributes participate in the Flame? Does your argument not invalidate the entire idea of separation from the Void which the story seemingly requires?

I mean it's just supporting evidence bruh.

Non-canon is non-canon. There is no supporting evidence with WoG for this verse.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Might as well put this out here for everyone to see.

 

[Seraphor12]

Might as well put this out here for everyone to see.

this is the reason why i haven't used this and this as supporting evidence.