Small MG CRT

[Dereck03]

Hella, I'm forced to wake up from the slumbers from my bed to do a CRT and thus I'm back to being active here again, today I shall propose a very small and uncontroversial CRT.

Here's the proposal with the TL; DR at the end.

Infinite layers are postponed for another thread and only normal layers are left to evaluate.

That's all.

Agree. (3,10) Oblivion_Of_The_Endless, Reiner04, Catzlaflame EldemadeDityjon, Godsatoshi23, Thermor Dog3352 Orioreeem Glis Tatsumi504 Fixxed TheHyperGuy ROZAN-U

Disagree.

Neutral.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Someone's gonna cook you for this but that's definitely not Breeze

As we already discussed this, I Disagree with your CRT. Neutral on infinite layers.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Other than being neutral on infinite layers, everything else seems fine.

 

[BreezeHM]

Someone's gonna cook you for this but that's definitely not Breeze

 

[ZillionZeutron]

Is this CRT really considered small though?

 

[Dereck03]

Is this CRT really considered small though?

And uncontroversial.

 

[ZillionZeutron]

And uncontroversial.

Then i disagree with the thread fr.

Uncontroversial threads are boring. Currently neutral, waiting for staff input.

 

[Thermor]

Agree

 

[Dog3352]

Neutral with infinite layers, I agree with the rest.

 

[Orioreeem]

Seems fine

 

[Theglassman12]

Not really seeing infinite layers from this. The context here in regards to "infinite magic" is that they have an infinite supply of magic they can use without a worry, not that the power is being increased infinitely to bypass an infinite number of layers over.

 

[ZillionZeutron]

Not really seeing infinite layers from this. The context here in regards to "infinite magic" is that they have an infinite supply of magic they can use without a worry, not that the power is being increased infinitely to bypass an infinite number of layers over.

Besides infinite layers, what’s your evaluation of the finite layers in the blog?

 

[ZillionZeutron]

Not really seeing infinite layers from this. The context here in regards to "infinite magic" is that they have an infinite supply of magic they can use without a worry, not that the power is being increased infinitely to bypass an infinite number of layers over.

Also, hasn’t this already been addressed in the blog? IIRC It’s been addressed in the “High Ranking God’s” part.

It’s argued that even though Nousgalia has infinite magic power, he still couldn’t defend himself against a weakened Militia, which he normally should have been able to do quite easily considering he had infinite magic power and therefore should have resisted her attack, hence the “infinite layers” proposal.

At least, that’s what i understood after reading the blog.

 

[Theglassman12]

I'll look into the finite layers when I read through the blog. Also no the "infinite magic power" is in regards to their supply being inexhaustible akin to Android 17 and 18 having infinite energy reserves. It doesn't remotely translate to the layers. Also that sounds more like an anti feat for infinite layers if someone without infinite magic is able to resist that despite the argument being "more magic = stronger hax and resistances".

 

[ZillionZeutron]

I'll look into the finite layers when I read through the blog. Also no the "infinite magic power" is in regards to their supply being inexhaustible akin to Android 17 and 18 having infinite energy reserves. It doesn't remotely translate to the layers. Also that sounds more like an anti feat for infinite layers if someone without infinite magic is able to resist that despite the argument being "more magic = stronger hax and resistances".

Fair enough. But, i think i worded this poorly and that’s why you disagree. I’ll leave the argument to the ones who made the blog.

 

[Glis]

-->Roughly speaking, the power of the magic spell is determined by the limit value of the spell and the magic of the caster -- Shu

One thing that the OP forgot to mention is that a spell's power also depends on it's built in limit value(Grade). So it doesn't matter if the caster has nigh infinite - infinite pool of magic, though their spells would still have higher layers, but it wouldn't mean they can each infinite layers with those as the spells are still strictly bound by it's limit.

As for anti-magic and innate resistances, or those that don't require formula or abide by a specitic limit, I think the layers should comfortably be applied. Except for the infinite part, I don't really recall any mention of infinite magic for Gods.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Neutral on infinite layers for now.

The rest of the blog makes sense to me.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Also no the "infinite magic power" is in regards to their supply being inexhaustible akin to Android 17 and 18 having infinite energy reserves. It doesn't remotely translate to the layers.

I don't know the context surrounding those two neither do I wish to delve into other verses but going by your implication, they're not the same. Higher ranking gods have been shown to output nigh-infinite magic already and their magic power as well as physical strength is inexhaustible. I don't see how it's in regards to energy reserves when physical stamina is included. Magic power is also something that comes from and resides in the source and Nousgalia was said to be using all of his power at once but I'm not as interested in pushing for infinite layers with just this. It was something I threw in to see how it goes

Also that sounds more like an anti feat for infinite layers if someone without infinite magic is able to resist that despite the argument being "more magic = stronger hax and resistances".

You probably missed it but Militia is a God and not just an ordinary one at that. The beginning of the blog also explains there are other ways to get layers that don't involve magic power so it wouldn't be an anti-feat.

 

[Tatsumi504]

One thing that the OP forgot to mention is that a spell's power also depends on it's built in limit value(Grade). So it doesn't matter if the caster has nigh infinite - infinite pool of magic, though their spells would still have higher layers, but it wouldn't mean they can each infinite layers with those as the spells are still strictly bound by it's limit.

Except I didn't leave it out, it's unimportant to the blog and not translated yet. That also doesn't apply for worlds in the same layer. God knows the wank would've been ungodly had that info been translated

As for anti-magic and innate resistances, or those that don't require formula or abide by a specitic limit, I think the layers should comfortably be applied. Except for the infinite part, I don't really recall any mention of infinite magic for Gods.

Then it's been a while since you read the story.

• Vol.1 Prologue: Militia and Reno nigh-infinite magic statement
• Vol. 6 Ch. 38: Gods inexhaustible magic and physical strength
• Somewhere in Vol. 10 Act 2: Base Equis infinite power (not translated yet)

Let's not forget even simplifying it, Anos source after offsetting it's power outputs infinite magic and peeps like Militia, Graham, Avernyu etc match and surpass that

 

[Fixxed]

I agree with more magic power=more layer

Vol.1 Prologue: Militia and Reno nigh-infinite magic statement

Well i think OT misstranslate that one. In raw text it say equal to infinity

無限にも等しき魔力の塊が

 

[TheHyperGuy]

Well i think OT misstranslate that one. In raw text it say equal to infinity

I think we'd need a translator on that one, because it can be either or depending on poetic or literal translation.

Spoiler: Raw

放たれたのは途方もなく真っ白な波動。 まるで間近で見る星のようだ。
無限にも等しき魔力の塊が、目映く輝いていた。
いくら魔力を注ぐためとはいえ、それだけの量を無防備に浴びれば魔王アノスの体とて、ただではすまないだろう。

As for the blog, I agree. I think the infinite layers need more context but if we follow the logic of the finite layers, then infinite layers makes sense considering Anos' evolution through his source and the other infinite statements.

However, the only issue I have is that i think the infinite layers would make more sense being withe difference between silver sea layers, but ofc thats yet to come.

-->Roughly speaking, the power of the magic spell is determined by the limit value of the spell and the magic of the caster -- Shu

Also if this is accurate, then it would sort of argue against infinite layers for spells. As for resistances, I dont see a reason to disagree for infinite layers.

EDIT: A cap on spells might actually make a cap on resistances due to that, so possibly arguing against both for infinity.

 

[Glis]

Except I didn't leave it out, it's unimportant to the blog and not translated yet. That also doesn't apply for worlds in the same layer. God knows the wank would've been ungodly had that info been translated

Nope, it applies to all worlds as it basically corresponds to every spells, not just by layers. This was the same natural limit value that Anos explained in volume 11 to be the basis for spell grading(reason why Grega was ranked lower than Gusgam, why Gusgam was below Gresde, and so on..)

Then it's been a while since you read the story.

• Vol.1 Prologue: Militia and Reno nigh-infinite magic statement
• Vol. 6 Ch. 38: Gods inexhaustible magic and physical strength
• Somewhere in Vol. 10 Act 2: Base Equis infinite power (not translated yet)

Let's not forget even simplifying it, Anos source after offsetting it's power outputs infinite magic and peeps like Militia, Graham, Avernyu etc match and surpass that

I never denied the idea of nigh-infinite magic power. What I doubted was infinite magic power being directly stated. Inexhaustible also doesn't always equate to infinite pool of energy, much more when you consider that it was Revarshned being the subject. And the only implication that Eques possessed infinite amounts magic power was when he went beyond the limits of order.


Regarding Anos though, I assume you're talking about the small analogy he did, but 'infinite' was never mentioned in the raws. Even assuming it did, he was still reffering to his total magic and not his output.

 

[Glis]

Also if this is accurate, then it would sort of argue against infinite layers for spells. As for resistances, I dont see a reason to disagree for infinite layers.

EDIT: A cap on spells might actually make a cap on resistances due to that, so possibly arguing against both for infinity.

Exactly, It means that spells, including those at world destruction level, are still outputing magic below or close to a specific limit value, denying any notion of infinite layers. I mean we have Anos saying that there is a limit of having enourmous amounts of firedew, magic power and order, so theoretically infinite magic power is unlikely.

 

[Tatsumi504]

We aren't having this conversation here, go to the discussion thread

 

[Tatsumi504]

Final thing on this, you are overfixating on the word "limit" and ignoring what that limit is. Spells having a limit to their power doesn't mean the limit is below infinite after all, the verse doesn't cap below High 3-A.

Nope, it applies to all worlds as it basically corresponds to every spells, not just by layers. This was the same natural limit value that Anos explained in volume 11 to be the basis for spell grading(reason why Grega was ranked lower than Gusgam,

They're ranked that way cause one is stronger than the other. There's a limit where grega cannot compete with Gusgam and Gusgam can't compete with grease and so on but give any of these spells enough magic and they'll burn the entire world down.
Not to mention that you're talking about abilities that can be measured in terms of their magnitude which doesn't apply to hax.

 

[Dereck03]

I think the best course of action here would be to leave aside the infinite layers thing and focus on the normal layers, that can be argued after we finish this thread and it will be less of a burden and easy for the rest to evaluate.

 

[Theglassman12]

Can I ask where does the 78-87 layers itself comes from? I count roughly 25-30 from the scaling chain and the square numbers on each isn't really telling me much.

 

[ROZAN-U]

Can I ask where does the 78-87 layers itself comes from? I count roughly 25-30 from the scaling chain and the square numbers on each isn't really telling me much.

The superscript indicates layers via being able to layer abilities continuously by increasing magic usage (increments in amount of magic used) and another by utilizing all their magic power at once.(<) represents an absolute layer that cannot be overcome by increasing the amount of magic power used because of the huge difference in amounts of magic.

From this.

Basically you have
-baseline
-layering with magic increment
and ,< which represents the absolute layer.

Magical Era Humans Resistance (baseline) 2 - 1 Layers (baseline, with magic power increment)
< Mythical Era Humans 2 - 4 layers ( Absolute gap, baseline and with magic increment)
< Zepes 2 - 7 layers
< Naya 2 - 10 layers
< Triangle Insignia 2 -13 layers
< Square Insignia 2 - 16 layers
< Pentagram 2 -19 layers
< Hexagram 2 - 22 layers
< Heptagram 2 - 25 layers
< Mythical Era Relics 2- 28 layers
< Demon Elders 2 - 31 layers
< Juvenile Dragons 2 - 34 layers
< Ancient Dragons 2 -37 layers
< Variant Dragons 2 -40 layers
< Mythical Era Demons (Low) 2- 43 layers
< Mythical Era Demons (Mid) 2 - 46 layers
< Mythical Era Demons (High)/Melheis/Commanders 2 - 49 layers
< Divine Beasts 2 - 52 layers
< Keepers 2 - 55 layers
< Evil Royals Weapon-58 layers
< Grysilis 2 - 61 layers
< Evil Royals 2 - 64 layers
< Proxy (partial Order) 2 - 67 layers
< Proxy (half Order) 2 -70 layers
< Gods 2 -73 layers
< God of Balance 2 - 76 layers
< Weakened Goddess of Creation 2 - Lastly you have < as 1 and weakened militia baseline as 2, totaling to 78 leading to weakened militia.

didn't expect this to be correct when I was writing this ,I thought I was gonna waste my time

 

[Reiner04]

Proposal seems fine

 

[Robo432343]

Proposal seems fine

 

[Glis]

Uh even if infinite layers can't get a pass, a nigh-infinite power output would still mean alot provided that the basis for layers are accepted, no? Or is nigh-infinite layers too ambigous?

 

[Dereck03]

We will discuss that in the next layer thread we have planned.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Uh even if infinite layers can't get a pass, a nigh-infinite power output would still mean alot provided that the basis for layers are accepted, no? Or is nigh-infinite layers too ambigous?

I agreed to drop that for now it'll be easier to deterimine once vol. 10 act 2 and vol. 11 are translated

 

[Fixxed]

How about aleph-infinity layers of ability and resistence

 

[Catzlaflame]

Obligatory don’t know the series, but the proposal seems fine

 

[Wesker018]

@Dereck03

 

[ZillionZeutron]

@Dereck03

Should probably wait for Glassman’s evaluation, just to avoid any nitpicking or unnecessary debate. That said, if the OP wants to move forward with this, that’s totally fine as well.

 

[Dereck03]

We already have 4 staff approval on the thread, so we are done here, I was just giving a bit more time for any counter argument or disagreement with the op but since there's none I'll close this.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Should probably wait for Glassman’s evaluation, just to avoid any nitpicking or unnecessary debate.

Judging by the last time he replied here and his recent activity, he doesn't seem to be interested.