Small Psykos/HE and BS Revision

[ByAsura]

I agree that it’s reasonable to say she was weakened, but she definitely shouldn’t be drastically weaker than her base self, and certainly not Gyoro Gyoro.

Basically, she should still be At least City level in attack potency and just City level in durability (because she could withstand some of Jet Drive Knight’s shots without much damage, and Jet Drive Knight downscales from her AP).

I have to disagree.

It could be true that she’s not significantly weaker, but what real evidence do we have? She dissipated DK’s Bishop and didn’t really harm Genos with one of her more powerful blasts, so we can confirm she’s stronger than Gums and Nyan (who currently scales to DK) to a large but not massive degree, and that’s about it.

The rest is her being stomped by heroes who are at least City level without any circular logic circular scaling and assumptions.

On this note, Genos only burned up Gums’ insides and was restrained by him, whereas one punch from the same Fuhrer Ugly that was curbstomped by Bang caused his back to explode. We can confirm with this that Genos is nowhere near Bang, inferior to Fuhrer Ugly and likely not that close to the EC who could cause pain to a somewhat weakened Bang.

So here’s my idea. Gums isn’t too far above TTM, Genos isn’t too far above Gums, and PsykoJet’s AP isn’t ludicrously above Genos’ durability.

 

[LordTracer]

Allow me to ask, is there any evidence that suggests Psykosjet is so massively weaker than her base self that she is now inferior to her literal meat puppet?

We’re making assumptions either way, but it seems like much more of an assumption to put Psykosjet that much lower without any statements from Psykos herself or anyone else.

 

[ByAsura]

Is there any reason why we should compare a fusion of a severely damaged Psykos who never uses TK and a tiny fragment of Orochi?

No, it’s a massive assumption to compare them at all, especially when feats and scaling suggests otherwise.

 

[LordTracer]

Is there any reason why we should compare a fusion of a severely damaged Psykos who never uses TK and a tiny fragment of Orochi?

A fusion would be superior to its parts, and to say that the fusion was weakened beneath a literal meat puppet without any evidence makes no sense whatsoever. Orochi suffered the majority of the damage, and we even see that Psykos can separate herself from Orochi just fine, so I see no reason why she would be so vastly weakened.

 

[ImposingTiger]

whereas one punch from the same Fuhrer Ugly that was curbstomped by Bang caused his back to explode.

To be honest, Bang can redirect punches with a much greater force than their original power, so FU isn't actually as strong as that punch that destroyed Gums.

 

[LordTracer]

Tbh this line of reasoning isn’t necessary, Gums should be City level since it can harm Fuhrer Ugly, who scales above Amai Mask, who scales above Fubuki, Genos scales to/above Gums, and Psykos scales to Genos.

 

[Damage3245]

Tbh this line of reasoning isn’t necessary, Gums should be City level since it can harm Fuhrer Ugly, who scales above Amai Mask, who scales above Fubuki, Genos scales to/above Gums, and Psykos scales to Genos.

Why would Amai Mask scale above Fubuki at her strongest? He hasn't done anything remotely comparable to one of Rover's energy blasts.

 

[ByAsura]

A fusion would be superior to its parts, and to say that the fusion was weakened beneath a literal meat puppet without any evidence makes no sense whatsoever. Orochi suffered the majority of the damage, and we even see that Psykos can separate herself from Orochi just fine, so I see no reason why she would be so vastly weakened.

You can make that claim at full power.

She does suffer damage because, even after the twist, we outright see that her body is half Orochi and she coughs up massive amounts of blood.

To be honest, Bang can redirect punches with a much greater force than their original power, so FU isn't actually as strong as that punch that destroyed Gums.

I’m not talking about the reflections, I’m talking about how Bang proceeded to grind him to a pulp right after that.

Tbh this line of reasoning isn’t necessary, Gums should be City level since it can harm Fuhrer Ugly, who scales above Amai Mask, who scales above Fubuki, Genos scales to/above Gums, and Psykos scales to Genos.

That works, but let’s get rid of the at least.

Why would Amai Mask scale above Fubuki at her strongest? He hasn't done anything remotely comparable to one of Rover's energy blasts.

She considers him an absolute monster with impossible strength.

 

[LordTracer]

Why would Amai Mask scale above Fubuki at her strongest? He hasn't done anything remotely comparable to one of Rover's energy blasts.

Fubuki herself makes it pretty clear that she thinks Amai Mask is superior to her, even describing him as a monster that defies common understanding.

That works, but let’s get rid of the at least.

That’s fine.

 

[Damage3245]

She considers him an absolute monster with impossible strength.

Fubuki's self-confidence is a pretty big issue. Fubuki probably hasn't fought anything as strong as Rover before the MA Arc, so I doubt she's ever performed feats as impressive as she has while fighting Rover.

I think it's fair to scale Amai above Fubuki for anything prior to the Monster Association raid, but not during it.

 

[LordTracer]

I think it's fair to scale Amai above Fubuki for anything prior to the Monster Association raid, but not during it.

This logic would work if we still treated Fubuki as if she got stronger (and it’s why we didn’t scale Amai above her before)… but we don’t. Her City level statistic is simply the peak of her power, she thinks it’s impossible for her to even reach Amai Mask’s level, so he should be City level.

 

[ByAsura]

I strongly disagree Damage’s logic, but can Fubuki sense power like Psykos?

I remember her sensing Tats’ increased output, but it was portrayed as sensing espers.

 

[ImposingTiger]

I strongly disagree Damage’s logic, but can Fubuki sense power like Psykos?

I remember her sensing Tats’ increased output, but it was portrayed as sensing espers.

She also stated Bang and Bomb's powers were equal, so I guess she can.

 

[Damage3245]

She also stated Bang and Bomb's powers were equal, so I guess she can.

She only stated they were equal after she saw them in action. Until she saw Bomb kicking Overgrown Rover's ass, she thought he was an ordinary old man.

 

[ByAsura]

Maybe I should turn this into a scaling thread because there’s honestly a lot to talk about.

 

[LordTracer]

Until she saw Bomb kicking Overgrown Rover's ass, she thought he was an ordinary old man.

I feel like that’s an overstatement on what Bomb (and Bang) were doing tbh

 

[Worthless]

Homeless Emperor's power isn't his own to be fair. So power sensing from Gyoro-Gyoro might not reveal he can do blasts that powerful.

But why does she believe he had enough power that could beat tatsumaki?

 

[Kachon123]

But why does she believe he had enough power that could beat tatsumaki?

Based off of his showings possibly. His normal orbs are already pretty powerful.

 

[Worthless]

Based off of his showings possibly. His normal orbs are already pretty powerful.

You saying he can damage her with it? The same person who said capable of killing EC whose body is as big as an entire city? Or unless you sayin that small orb can do the same thing lol

 

[Kachon123]

You saying he can damage her with it? The same person who said capable of killing EC whose body is as big as an entire city? Or unless you sayin that small orb can do the same thing lol

I never said that HE could damage Psykos. All I'm saying is that Psykos probably gave HE based off of his normal orbs, like his fight against Zombieman for example. A simple fight. Speed and Power.

 

[Worthless]

I never said that HE could damage Psykos.

I'm talking about tasumaki sire

All I'm saying is that Psykos probably gave HE based off of his normal orbs, like his fight against Zombieman for example. A simple fight. Speed and Power.

So you are saying with that power it's enough to beat tatsumaki? I'll concede if the range/destruction of the orb you are talking is as big as EC. Since pyskos believe she had a power/range enough to destroy the whole body of EC assuming the size of his body is as big as an entire city that would make her city in AP and Durability as well with TK barrier.

 

[ByAsura]

Where does it mention destroying EC's entire body? All Psykos said is that they could fight.

Even if she does kill EC, it doesn't really require destroying his entire body. She could just cut EC in half, destroy his head, or blow a hole through him. We've only seen EC regen its carapace via molting cycles.

 

[LordTracer]

Just checking, I know Damage has issues with it, but does everyone else agree with scaling Amai above Fubuki?

 

[ByAsura]

I'm going neutral. Fubuki probably isn't the best source here, and we can't even confirm her ability to sense the power of anything other than espers.

 

[ImposingTiger]

We should consider whether her confidence had a boost during the MA arc or not. Since psychic power is related to one's character, it could be that Fubuki grew in power.
That or Rover's blast was way less powerful, given that his energy balls vary greatly in power. Btw, didn't that feat get retconned?

 

[ByAsura]

Where's that stated?

Didn't what get retconned?

 

[ImposingTiger]

Where's that stated?

It's related to will, isn't it? I don't remember where was that statement.

Didn't what get retconned?

Fubuki blocking a ball from Rover. In the redraw it's Bang+Bomb+Fubuki who are deflecting it.

 

[ByAsura]

Fubuki still blocks a ball. Bang and Bomb blocked another later. Also, the redraw where Fubuki has a rematch against Do-S shows her blocking another.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Fubuki still blocks a ball. Bang and Bomb blocked another later. Also, the redraw where Fubuki has a rematch against Do-S shows her blocking another.

scan? or chapter?

 

[ByAsura]

I was misremembering, Bang and Bomb also blocked that one, while the speed lines suggest they diverted it as well.

And, yeah, they diverted it in the redraws.

So her feat is invalid.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

I was misremembering, Bang and Bomb also blocked that one, while the speed lines suggest they diverted it as well.

And, yeah, they diverted it in the redraws.

So her feat is invalid.

Excuse my cutting in out of the blue, but.

Unless I missed some redraws and also cannot see them somehow, Fubuki's feat still happened. She blocks one of the blasts in the pages coming just after your 2nd link.

She is also helping when they divert the first one, for what that's worth.

 

[ByAsura]

You missed nothing, it's just that those are meaningless.

She doesn't block it, they stand in front of her and reflect it. Fubuki just thinks she deflected it. At best, she assisted to an unknown extent (an extent that caused her to bleed) in repelling it.

As for her assisting in the other panel, that strongly depends on how much she helped. They could be blocking 99% while she's only putting in 1%. And, as I said before, you can see Bang and Bomb are the ones diverting it because their bodies and speed lines are in the same direction as the orb's new position.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

She doesn't block it, they stand in front of her and reflect it. At best, she assisted to an unknown extent.

As for her assisting in the other panel, that strongly depends on how much power she put into it. They could be blocking 99% while she's only putting in 1%. And, as I said before, you can see Bang and Bomb are the ones diverting it.

Bang is surprised to be unscathed, and she straight up says "Without my protection there would be nothing left of you.", and she takes all the toll of pushing her psychic output to its limits from blocking it.

I do agree it's likely they helped much more than she did in diverting the first one. If she could have diverted the 2nd one, I'd think she would have, so she probably wouldn't have been able to divert that first one on her own either.

 

[ByAsura]

I thought that was from the debris falling on him given that they're completely unscathed after doing the same thing to the next blast (albeit after Fubuki heals them, which shouldn't really change their durability too much). Taking a toll on her powers doesn't mean a lot, it could just mean that diverting a tiny fraction of the attack took all of her power.

 

[ImposingTiger]

"Without my protection there would be nothing left of you."

She later is surprised that they are so strong, so she wasn't aware of their true strength.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

I would like to argue that Rover may have broken Bang and Bomb's defense with that first blast. It's much, much bigger than the one that they manage to divert first, and I'm fairly certain the power in Rovers blasts is depicted with their size.
More than that, Bang manages to divert the blasts that come after being healed and claims that "the sharpness has returned to his fists".
I think that him saying that could imply that he was unable to defend against the first one, coupled with the surprise at being unscathed.
His comment could be related to the fact that he managed to divert the blasts that time, and if he had managed to defend against that big one, saying it in that context wouldn't have made sense.
It's entirely possible that he is just saying something along the lines of "I feel much better", but he could have said that line sooner if it was about how he felt, and not about his performance.

However, I will say:
He may not have been able to tell the "sharpness" of his fists until he used them, like to divert the blasts he did, he may just have needed to feel them in action.
And also, the fact that he was able to divert one before does at least somewhat disprove my above argument, but again Rover's blast may have just been much stronger.

I bring up the toll on her powers to suggest that she took the most of the attack with her defense. Had Bang and Bomb been the ones responsible for the majority of their defense there, she shouldn't have had to take so much toll.

I'm not sure what to say about the debris falling on them, that could make sense but I can't imagine thats what was being implied. I think we should see what more people think.

She later is surprised that they are so strong, so she wasn't aware of their true strength.

That's true. That does debunk her statement at least somewhat, however if what I said above about the blast breaking the martial artists' defense is true, she may believe what she said based off the fact that she managed to keep them safe when their defenses failed.

 

[ByAsura]

Fair point on the scale of the blasts.

I don't see why the sharpness returning to his fist would mean either of those. He's just talking about his healing improving his overall condition so he can use martial arts better.

Also, if you want to claim he's referring his boosted performance since he supposedly needed Fubuki, that could be accounted for by him deflecting blasts without Bomb's help. But, Bang and Bomb's reflection abilities aren't even that reliant on strength since human Garou blocked attacks from Metal Bat that would have incapacitated him.

That logic doesn't work. Espers bleed when they push their limits, so she could easily be pushing her limits just trying and failing to divert the attack, while Bang and Bomb actually are diverting it.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

I don't see why the sharpness returning to his fist would mean either of those. He's just talking about his healing improving his overall condition so he can use martial arts better.

That's basically what I mean by "I feel much better", I just didn't detail it.
I say it could mean he didn't manage to defend because him failing to defend could have given him the feeling that the sharpness was missing from his fists, and then when he managed to do so once again, he felt it returned. I understand that's not certain to be what it means though, this interpretation requires you to use what he says very strictly within the context of the situation, I suppose it would need more evidence to be supported.

That logic doesn't work. Espers bleed when they push their limits, so she could easily be pushing her limits just trying and failing to divert the attack, while Bang and Bomb actually are.

Assuming she just raised her power up to the level necessary to defend against it and yet wasn't a significant help in the defense and didn't even need to do so, yes.
I don't see why that would make sense though. I know Espers bleed when they push their limits but I don't think she would be pushing her limits if Bang and Bomb successfully defended against the blast.

 

[ByAsura]

I say it could mean he didn't manage to defend because him failing to defend could have given him the feeling that the sharpness was missing from his fists, and then when he managed to do so once again, he felt it returned. I understand that's not certain to be what it means though.

I get your point, all I'm saying is that he could just be referring to his increased abilities rather than the inability you purport. The fact that they all previously reflected an attack also makes this kind of weird.

I don't see why that would make sense though. I know Espers bleed when they push their limits but I don't think she would be pushing her limits if Bang and Bomb successfully defended against the blast.

Because she's still pushing her limits trying to defend against it and didn't realise they deflected it because she has no grasp on their power. She can still add all her power to a combined move.

 

[Rockymountainjammer]

Because she's still pushing her limits trying to defend against it and didn't realise they deflected it because she has no grasp on their power. She can still add all her power to a combined move.

I get that, but if she was JUST pushing her power to the maximum, and the burden of the defense was on Bang and Bomb still, I don't think she would have been pushed to the point of bleeding. That's saying she can't handle the output of her maximum power at all. She's not as skilled as Tatsumaki with her powers yeah, but she's definitely not Gearsper. I think she should be able to handle herself at least for a little bit with her maximum output before getting pushed to the point of bleeding.