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Hi, it's me again, bringing y'all yet another Sonic the Hedgehog CRT. This one is primarily about the speed of Super Forms, and since Perfect Dark Gaia is relevant to this, I figured now's as good a time as any to bring up something relevant about it. Here we go.
To begin with, we know that the potency of the Chaos Emeralds is, well, chaotic - and can easily fluctuate depending on a variety of factors - such as the situation, usage, emotions, or aptitude. Currently, this only applies to AP, but given that the Chaos Emeralds amplify all the statistics of a Super Form user, this should naturally apply to speed as well.
(Note: Theoretically, it would apply to Lifting Strength too, but even the weakest usage of the 7 Chaos Emeralds is superior to the World Rings, which give Immeasurable LS, so it'd be wholly redundant)
With that established, we should take a look at the Immeasurable speed feats for the Super Forms:
As such, I propose that the speed of Super Forms be changed to: "Varies; Massively FTL+, up to Immeasurable at his/her peak"
The Massively FTL+ rating would come from being at minimum superior to the World Rings, which empower Darkspine Sonic. If the base form at the time has superior speed to that and the Super Form's speed isn't Immeasurable, then it'd upscale from that base form.
(As an aside, Adventure 1 Super Sonic could also scale up from Modern Base Sonic, as both keep up with Perfect Chaos)
Of course, this also means a number of characters will lose their Immeasurable speed due to having no such feats or scaling. The list of those that will be downgraded is as follows:
In the same clip about the Egg Reverie Zone, I noticed that the Klepto Mobile actually moves in the Egg Reverie Zone as well, despite Base Classic Sonic being unable to. This would actually scale the Klepto Mobile to Immeasurable speed, and not only that, it provides a baseline for the minimum for Super Forms. Despite having access to this level of tech, Dr. Eggman still seeks out the Chaos Emeralds for their "unimaginable power", which wouldn't make sense if he could just blitz past Chaos Emerald-amped beings like Super Forms so easily.
As such, Super Forms could at minimum scale above the Klepto Mobile, along with those that scale to minimum level Super Forms, allowing them to maintain their Immeasurable tier.
But, hang on... I was looking through those that might be downgraded, and it feels like I'm missing someone...
See, under our current scaling, Perfect Dark Gaia would also be downgraded. In fact, if my upcoming proposal and the Klepto Mobile scaling are both rejected, he will be. But, I'd like to propose something while I'm at it.
In Sonic Frontiers, Sonic and Tails see into the past and watch The End casually wipe out the Ancients. After this finishes, Tails remarks that this level of attack from The End was easily on par with Dark Gaia. Bearing in mind that even a casual version of The End would be Low 1-C and Immeasurable speed (as it easily kept up with and fought the Titans), this would place Perfect Dark Gaia in the upper echelon of Super Form scaling, upgrading him to Low 1-C and allowing him to maintain his Immeasurable speed rating.
If this is not accepted, Perfect Dark Gaia's speed will be downgraded to Massively FTL+ like the rest, unless the Klepto Mobile scaling is accepted, and his AP will remain unchanged.
And well, that's about it on my end. With that said, I leave it to all of you, and I ask that we keep things civil. Now...
DISCUSS!
Agree:
Neutral: 2 (@Eseseso [on speed], @Remus1998 [on Dark Gaia])
Super Form Speed
So, first things first is the matter of the speed of Super Forms. Currently, they're rated as outright Immeasurable. However, I don't think this is necessarily accurate for a number of reasons. In fact, I intend to return the speed of Super Forms to how it used to be: a variable rating.
To begin with, we know that the potency of the Chaos Emeralds is, well, chaotic - and can easily fluctuate depending on a variety of factors - such as the situation, usage, emotions, or aptitude. Currently, this only applies to AP, but given that the Chaos Emeralds amplify all the statistics of a Super Form user, this should naturally apply to speed as well.
(Note: Theoretically, it would apply to Lifting Strength too, but even the weakest usage of the 7 Chaos Emeralds is superior to the World Rings, which give Immeasurable LS, so it'd be wholly redundant)
With that established, we should take a look at the Immeasurable speed feats for the Super Forms:
- Scaling to the Time Eater, who flew through time with Classic and Modern Super Sonic
- Being able to react to and dodge attacks from Solaris, who exists across all of past, present, and future simultaneously
- Being able to traverse the Egg Reverie Zone, where time moves non-linearly. More specifically, in the scan shown, the in-game timer constantly moves back in forth rather than flowing in one direction.
As such, I propose that the speed of Super Forms be changed to: "Varies; Massively FTL+, up to Immeasurable at his/her peak"
The Massively FTL+ rating would come from being at minimum superior to the World Rings, which empower Darkspine Sonic. If the base form at the time has superior speed to that and the Super Form's speed isn't Immeasurable, then it'd upscale from that base form.
(As an aside, Adventure 1 Super Sonic could also scale up from Modern Base Sonic, as both keep up with Perfect Chaos)
Of course, this also means a number of characters will lose their Immeasurable speed due to having no such feats or scaling. The list of those that will be downgraded is as follows:
- Perfect Chaos
- Finalhazard
- Devil Doom
- Super Mecha Sonic Mk. II
- Final Weapon
- Super Egg Robot
- Ultimate Gemerl
- Super Neo Metal
- Master Overlord
- Mother Wisp
- Egg Salamander
- Twilight Ix
An Alternative Solution: The Klepto Mobile
As I was making this, I realized something.In the same clip about the Egg Reverie Zone, I noticed that the Klepto Mobile actually moves in the Egg Reverie Zone as well, despite Base Classic Sonic being unable to. This would actually scale the Klepto Mobile to Immeasurable speed, and not only that, it provides a baseline for the minimum for Super Forms. Despite having access to this level of tech, Dr. Eggman still seeks out the Chaos Emeralds for their "unimaginable power", which wouldn't make sense if he could just blitz past Chaos Emerald-amped beings like Super Forms so easily.
As such, Super Forms could at minimum scale above the Klepto Mobile, along with those that scale to minimum level Super Forms, allowing them to maintain their Immeasurable tier.
But, hang on... I was looking through those that might be downgraded, and it feels like I'm missing someone...
Perfect Dark Gaia
Oh yeah, this goober.See, under our current scaling, Perfect Dark Gaia would also be downgraded. In fact, if my upcoming proposal and the Klepto Mobile scaling are both rejected, he will be. But, I'd like to propose something while I'm at it.
In Sonic Frontiers, Sonic and Tails see into the past and watch The End casually wipe out the Ancients. After this finishes, Tails remarks that this level of attack from The End was easily on par with Dark Gaia. Bearing in mind that even a casual version of The End would be Low 1-C and Immeasurable speed (as it easily kept up with and fought the Titans), this would place Perfect Dark Gaia in the upper echelon of Super Form scaling, upgrading him to Low 1-C and allowing him to maintain his Immeasurable speed rating.
If this is not accepted, Perfect Dark Gaia's speed will be downgraded to Massively FTL+ like the rest, unless the Klepto Mobile scaling is accepted, and his AP will remain unchanged.
And well, that's about it on my end. With that said, I leave it to all of you, and I ask that we keep things civil. Now...
DISCUSS!
Agree:
- With changing Immeasurable speed to Massively FTL+ to Immeasurable: 9 (@Theuser789, @Maverick_Zero_X, @ShakeResounding, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Remus1998, @Ghengiroo115, @Accelerated_Evolution, @Elizhaa, @Qawsedf234)
- With using the Klepto Mobile for Immeasurable speed scaling: 1 (@omegabronic)
- With the Perfect Dark Gaia upgrade: 10 (@omegabronic, @Maverick_Zero_X, @ShakeResounding [prefers "at most"], @Theuser789 [prefers "at most"], @Ottavio_Merluzzo, @Eseseso, @Ghengiroo115, @Accelerated_Evolution ["at most Low 1-C"], @Elizhaa, @Qawsedf234)
Neutral: 2 (@Eseseso [on speed], @Remus1998 [on Dark Gaia])
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