Speed Scaling for Post-Flashpoint Characters.

[Stefano4444]

This is a thread that i actually made a long time ago, which i was unable to continue due of the site's migrate, its time to rectify my mistake.

As the title suggest, i'm advocating for Post-Flashpoint Characters's Flying Speed to fully scale to their Combat Speed/Reactions.

There isn't seen to be any good reason for separating the two, not when Post-Crisis Characters's Combat Speed/Reactions scale to their Flying Speed.

 

[Stefano4444]

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[Stefano4444]

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[Bernkastelll]

Well, thats true, but do u have scans that can prove ur point? Like, characters reacting to others charactera flying in their direction or something?

 

[Stefano4444]

Well, thats true, but do u have scans that can prove ur point? Like, characters reacting to others charactera flying in their direction or something?

There are a few instances that could be used as a proof for MFTL+ scaling.

Superman react and somewhat tags the Barry Allen with a well-placed flick, and yeah while Barry was faster, he wasn't show to be so much faster.

Wonder Woman react and block Darkseid's Omega Beams, such beams where fast enough to tag and hit Superman, while he was flying.

Supergirl could react and keep up with Wonder Woman, same opposite can be apply as WW was able to catch Supergil, while she was flying.

 

[Stefano4444]

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[LordGriffin1000]

This seems fine to me unless someone has valid counter arguments?.

Given they can react to attacks that can catch them while they are flying, it should be fine to scale them at least to some degree to their flight speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Superman react and somewhat tags the Barry Allen with a well-placed flick, and yeah while Barry was faster, he wasn't show to be so much faster.

This is evidence for scaling, but not evidence for scaling flight speed to combat speed.

The other two are more valid, but you also have to deal with ther lower showings. Though we utterly ignore that for Post-Crisis and Rebirth so idk.

 

[Stefano4444]

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[Stefano4444]

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[Hellbeast]

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[Stefano4444]

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[Bernkastelll]

Well, after the scans, it seems good to me

 

[Stefano4444]

H'el (Post-Flashpoint)
Superman (Post-Flashpoint)
Cyborg (Post-Flashpoint)
Swamp Thing (Post-Flashpoint)
Aquaman (Post-Flashpoint)
Rao (Post-Flashpoint)
Supergirl (Post-Flashpoint)
Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)

In case the upgrade its accepted, this are all the profiles that i found that would have to be upgraded.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This checks out

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Darkseid's Omega beams were also catching up to Flash, yet Wonder Woman intercepted them.

Wonder Woman also intercepted the Reverse Flash and knocked him out, Reverse Flash is shown to be relative to Barry Allen in speed.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Imo, it's quite obvious Post Flashpoint / New 52 characters deserve an MFTL+ rating.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

This is evidence for scaling, but not evidence for scaling flight speed to combat speed.

The other two are more valid, but you also have to deal with ther lower showings. Though we utterly ignore that for Post-Crisis and Rebirth so idk.

Flight Speed and Combat Speed hardly differentiate, it's not like Superman and the other mftl+ characters don't need to maneuver and avoid crashing into stuff when they're flying into space, their reflexes and travel speed are clearly correlated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

it's not like Superman and the other mftl+ characters don't need to maneuver and avoid crashing into stuff when they're flying into space

This has always been a terrible example since space is so empty you can go in a straight line forever and still not hit anything. The reason Post-Crisis characters have their combat speed scale to their reactions is because they explicitly do maneuvers or throw punches while preforming those feats.

This can be used as a FTL feat, this not so much

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

This has always been a terrible example since space is so empty you can go in a straight line forever and still not hit anything. The reason Post-Crisis characters have their combat speed scale to their reactions is because they explicitly do maneuvers or throw punches while preforming those feats.

This can be used as a FTL feat, this not so much

Except it is not? There are nigh uncountable planets / stars / asteroids other celestial bodies in the universe, claiming that a character could fly from the edge of the universe all the way to the other, in a straight line, without anything at all getting in the way is rather silly.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Btw Aquaman in his 2011 run kept up with and defeated Grodd who can react to the Flash.

Superman also fought Mammoth who in incapped a speeding Wally West during the 2016 Titans run.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There are nigh uncountable planets / stars / asteroids other celestial bodies in the universe

That amount to a something akin to 0.00000001% of the volume of the universe. Its almost entirely empty space, and every single description about the absolute scale of nothingness in the universe made by scientist is very clear that matter is a rounding error in comparison to the nothing.

So yes. You could fly in a straight line forever and likely hit nothing.

Grodd who can react to the Flash.

That's scaling, not a feat

Superman also fought Mammoth who in incapped a speeding Wally West during the 2016 Titans run.

Also scaling and not a feat.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

That amount to a something akin to 0.00000001% of the volume of the universe. Its almost entirely empty space, and every single description about the absolute scale of nothingness in the universe made by scientist is very clear that matter is a rounding error in comparison to the nothing.

So yes. You could fly in a straight line forever and likely hit nothing.

That's scaling, not a feat

Also scaling and not a feat.

I hope you realise this wiki has Post Flashpoint Barry Allen as MFTL+ for a direct reaction feat https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flash_(Post-Flashpoint)

And Wally is rated at MFTL+ by being literally faster than his Post Crisis self.

Your flight speed argument is also moot, because Superman and Green Lantern traverse places filled with celestial bodies and the fact they are literally scattered across the entirety of the universe completely nulls your argument.

Regardless, the fact Superman & other heroes can fight and scale to opponents who react to their travel speed indicate they should scale. This shouldn't even be a discussion unless there's deliberate lowballing here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I hope you realise this wiki has Post Flashpoint Barry Allen as MFTL+

Scaling people to the Flash is fine, even if its a bit questionable at times. The argument here is scaling people to Superman's universe spanning speed feats since they're much better than what the Flash has.

And Wally is rated at MFTL+ by being literally faster than his Post Crisis self.

Wally is Rebirth, not Post-Flashpoint.

because Superman and Green Lantern traverse places filled with celestial bodies and the fact they are literally scattered across the entirety of the universe completely nulls your argument.

I'm going to quote Wikipedia here for a second

The distance from Earth to the Sun is 1 astronomical unit [AU] (150,000,000 km; 93,000,000 mi). For comparison, the radius of the Sun is 0.0047 AU (700,000 km). Thus, the Sun occupies 0.00001% (10^−5 %) of the volume of a sphere with a radius the size of Earth's orbit, whereas Earth's volume is roughly one millionth (10^−6) that of the Sun. Jupiter, the largest planet, is 5.2 astronomical units (780,000,000 km) from the Sun and has a radius of 71,000 km (0.00047 AU), whereas the most distant planet, Neptune, is 30 AU (4.5×10^9 km) from the Sun.

So to reiterate, using just the distance from the Sun to the Earth, the Sun occupies 0.00001% of the volume of that sphere.

The universe is so large and so empty that all matter is a statistical rounding era in comparison to the void of empty space.

So unless you have a clear example of them throwing a punch or deliberating moving away from something its not really scalable.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Wally is Rebirth, not Post-Flashpoint.

Isnt Rebirth post-flashpoint?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Isnt Rebirth post-flashpoint?

by technicality yes, but Rebirth is after convergence where some characters were altered and the universes of previous eras returned

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Rebirth is Post Flashpoint, so again what's the argument here?
Again, Superman can fight characters who can tag him mid flight, so moot point, as shown earlier.

This is becoming redundant.
Superman clearly was in an area filled with debris and celestial bodies, simply assuming he flew in empty space is silly and contradicted by what's shown.

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[Qawsedf234]

Isnt Rebirth post-flashpoint?

A lot of characters got merged, histories changed, or powered up in some fashion. Making backscaling weird in my view.

Also the site itself separates the versions for a decent amount of profiles.

him mid flight, so moot point, as shown earlier.

This is implying he's always flying at a set top speed, when that isn't true.

If we want to scale people to Flash like, idk, this

Speed: Massively FTL+(Reacted to the Flash. Fought Doomsday from Earth to Venus)

I'm fine with it. I just don't think there's any solid evidence of scaling someone 1:1 to Superman's flight speed when it never happens.

 

[Bernkastelll]

A lot of characters got merged, histories changed, or powered up in some fashion. Making backscaling weird in my view.

Oh, yeah, so, basically are we making keys/profiles to their post flashpoint versions before the whole merging thing?

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Superman was heavily depowered when he crossed the universe? Why would he slower in combat than himself while affected by the aftermath of the doomsday virus & likely deprived of Sunlight?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh, yeah, so, basically are we making keys/profiles to their post flashpoint versions before the whole merging thing?

Yeah. Look at PF Barry Allen, Wonder Woman, or Superman. All have different keys

Superman was heavily depowered when he crossed the universe?

It was after he got the virus removed and was flying back. He wasn't depowered until the Truth Arc from my memory.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Also, the calc heavily lowballs the speed considering the DC universe is considerably larger than our normal one. New calcs should be made altogether imo.

 

[Qawsedf234]

DC universe is considerably larger than our normal one

Post-Crisis is the one with that statement. It was brought up before the forum move but rejected since the full reboot changed the franchise on a universal scale.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

The universes are the same, timelines are different, it's directly stated by Wally iirc and a universal reboot doesn't inherently change the size of the universe These are all random assumptions imo.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The universes are the same, timelines are different, it's directly stated by Wally iirc

If you have a statement saying just the timeline rather than the entire universe was changed, sure it can be used.

These are all random assumptions imo.

Its not random as much as if a massive in-universe change happens attempting to carry over previous minor lore isn't a valid reason.

 

[Teezar]

I don't even think wonder woman has any MFTL+ travel speed all are basically combat speeds.

 

[Hellbeast]

Isnt Rebirth post-flashpoint?

Post-Flashpoint more means New 52/DCYou (I definitely think we should use New 52)

 

[Stefano4444]

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[Stefano4444]

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[Stefano4444]

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