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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Web Novel CRT

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Elizhaa

Elizhaa

VS Battles
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  • Treyni or Trainee is on an awakened demon lord level like Leon with Spirit King Fusion (Web Novel chapter 243) so she is 6-A with Spirit King Fusion.
    1. The addition should be in a second key that she will have as she obtained a stronger body in chapter 143 and there is no mentioned Spirit King Fusion prior from what I checked.
    2. From this thread, it is already accepted that Law manipulation is valid; So, I propose adding law manipulation for characters who were listed to have the ability but for specific elements:
      1. A list of characters affected can be found here:
        1. https://archive.ph/68MCi
        2. https://archive.ph/DpK1B
  • I think Conceptual Manipulation should be Type 1, in the verse (Web Novel).
    • From these quotes:
      • “"A spirit is…
        “In nothingness power finds its fill.
        That is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power.
        Among these, light and darkness, the two great spirits.
        Who came to exist at the same moment as the world.
        But, the world was without form, a ephemeral existence.
        Light and shadow, darkness and the light. Two existences that shall never interweave.
        One day, the great spirit time was born.
        The child of light and darkness.
        And thus the world began to move.
        The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself.
        Inside the flowing currents of life and death,
        Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky–these five great spirits were born.
        And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.        		„
        ~ Chapter 62
        The spirits are masses of energy:

        “"「In other words, first the holy spirit had existed, and it gave birth to the other eight!」
        Splendid… right? For a myth, it surprisingly lacks gods.
        Perhaps this is the truth of this world.
        By the way, great spirits did not have ego–they were masses of energy.        		„
        ~ Chapter 62
    • I think light and darkness could be type 1 concepts since they all predate time for the world and they seem unaffected when the world was without a form as an ephemeral existence (ephemeral means short lasting so it might the world was in such a state) which could qualify for the independence of reality aspect. The other Great Spirits would scale from having similar nature.
      • ''1. Independent Universal Concept: Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.'
 
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Treyni addition is fine, as for concept manipulation you will have to call someone who understands that.

Light and darkness came into existence the same time as the world, don't think predating time necessarily means they are type 1 existences, they would have to predate the world itself, maybe you can make that argument for the great holy spirit, since it existed in nothingness. But again not knowledgeable on this stuff so you can disregard what i say.

Don't see how this would change anything though, except Rimuru's concept resistance, would think arguments were gonna be made for Turn Null, but nothing about that's here.
 
Elizhaa said:
Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.„
~ Chapter 62
Click to expand...
Light and Darkness (Perhaps other Great Spirits too) will still exist even if the universe is destroyed. until Light consumes the world > erasing Darkness > until a new Spirit is born > erasing all

The new spirit that was born I think erased the remaining Great Spirits including itself into nothingness.


Elizhaa said:
One day, the great spirit time was born.
The child of light and darkness.
And thus the world began to move.
Click to expand...
Time is born of Light and Darkness. Destroying time will only stop the expansion of the world as Ciel stated in chapter 248. Destroying time will not affect Light and Darkness, because it is Light that consumes the world, then erasing darkness. this should make Light and Darkness a Independent Universal Concept

So, I think the Great Spirit of Time is a type 2 concept, while Light and Darkness is a type 1 concept
 
I think the Great Spirit of Sky is a Type 1 concept too

Feats :
"There were eight media cards that formed the basis.
These represented the eight great attributes of the power of spirits that made this world.
Light and shadow, time, and earth, water, fire, wind, and sky.
What Marsha had received, was seven of those eight.
Time alone could not be used by people, and so I had excluded it.
The light could purify, nurture and regenerate.
The shadow could conceal, was psychological, and could destroy.
The earth had the power to pull, break and condense.
The water could solidify, stop and be released.
The fire burned, accelerated and exploded.
The wind was in waves, had an impact and vibrated.
The sky was space, existence, and information."
(Web Novel, Chapter 260)

There it says that the Sky is Space, Existence, and Information. This is what makes up the world.

Destroying Space, Existence, and Information I don't think will destroy the Great Spirit of Sky. Why?

This is the reason
Elizhaa said:
Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.„
~ Chapter 62
Click to expand...
I think Great Spirit of Sky will still exist even if the universe is destroyed. until Light consumes the world > erasing Darkness > until a new Spirit is born > erasing all.

When the world is consumes by Light, Space, Existence, and Information should be destroyed with it.

Then, Light will erase the Darkness. Then, a new spirit is born and erasing all (including the Great Spirit of Sky and other Great Spirits that still exist). Turn the world into nothingness.

This will make the Great Spirit of Sky a type 1 concept because it is not affected by the destruction of Space, Existence, and Information.
 
Celestial Pegasus, there were no other things like space, existence, information, and other laws like gravity born from other concepts when the world first existed as light and darkness did; some association of concepts are listed in chapter 260 as posted by Thunderian above. Even so, the world was ephemeral or short-lasting (counterintuitive since the great spirits of sky and time didn't exist), the great spirits of light and darkness were fine.
Currently, there are two significant ways to prove a concept is independent of reality; one is if a concept predates reality or the other is that the concept is fine even if reality or all its associations are warped or destroyed.
I think great spirits of Light and Darkness are the latter cases, at least. If those spirits depended on reality, then like type 2 concepts, they would have been warped, affected, or destroyed by the ephemeral state of the world in which the lore doesn't support.
This point is circumferential evidence; the lore essentially implied it would be the spirits that will destroy everything, not the state of the world, which indirectly causes the spirit destructions.

Sure, the great holy spirit could be a type 1 concept. I will ask for inputs from someone knowledgeable.
 
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Orioreeem said:
Would a concept that creats a reality qualify then?
Click to expand...
It would be Type 1 or Type 2, depending on the context. If you want more clarifications you can ask me on my profile post or make a question thread on the matter.
 
I agree,seems great
Though cm isn't really for me as its hard to understand but i will agree with who ever seems to be most accurate later on

Also thanks for doing the crt

Edit :I also agree with concept manipulation
 
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I honestly don't think its anything beyond Type 2 because I even made a CRT in the past to get Type 1 (was Type 2 back then) Conceptual Manipulation based on the Concepts predating Existence and was firmly told that only statements of actual transcendence and independence of Reality were appliable as evidence and that merely predating existence was not enough. (But clearly, that has changed without anyone telling me)
 
Everything12 said:
I honestly don't think its anything beyond Type 2 because I even made a CRT in the past to get Type 1 (was Type 2 back then) Conceptual Manipulation based on the Concepts predating Existence and was firmly told that only statements of actual transcendence and independence of Reality were appliable as evidence and that merely predating existence was not enough. (But clearly, that has changed without anyone telling me)
Click to expand...
Old staff (Kaltias and Assaltwaffle) familiar with conceptual manipulation and helped revise the page before the recent revisions basically summarised the two significant ways of concepts being transcendent of reality that I mentioned above; it is largely their definitions that I am using.

Edit:
The standard for evidence mainly was evidence like scans or quotes similar to now from the current discussion rules in 2020; a few years ago, CRTs could have been made without evidence which gives perspective to how low standards of evidence generally were.
Transcendence mainly was a misnomer, and honestly, the page should have clarified independence for a while. In any case, I think the new definition makes the case more precise.
 
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Everything12 said:
I honestly don't think its anything beyond Type 2 because I even made a CRT in the past to get Type 1 (was Type 2 back then) Conceptual Manipulation based on the Concepts predating Existence and was firmly told that only statements of actual transcendence and independence of Reality were appliable as evidence and that merely predating existence was not enough. (But clearly, that has changed without anyone telling me)
Click to expand...
Conceptual Manipulation changed, yes. Transcendence isn't a factor anymore too.
 
Agree with everything, I had some doubts about Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, but re-reading the Op and opinions it seems clear that it can be considered a Type 1.
 
Metalballrun said:
That would definitely be CM Type 1. And it predates Spirit of Light and Darkness which is currently being agreed to be also ones.
The question is if the same treatment would be done for the other Great Spirits or if they would remain as CM Type 2.
Click to expand...
Great Spirits? Can you elaborate like who? I forgot, haven’t read the WN in a while.
 
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Planck69 said:
What do you even mean by "above baseline"?
Click to expand...
Because the Spirit of Light and Spirit of Darkness are going to be CM1 here, but the Great Holy Spirit is what gave birth to the Spirit of Light, Darkness and others Spirit
"A spirit is…
“In nothingness power finds its fill.
That is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power.
Among these, light and darkness, the two great spirits.
Who came to exist at the same moment as the world.
But, the world was without form, a ephemeral existence.
Light and shadow, darkness and the light. Two existences that shall never interweave.
One day, the great spirit time was born.
The child of light and darkness.
And thus the world began to move.
The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself.
Inside the flowing currents of life and death,
Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky–these five great spirits were born.
And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world.		„
~ Chapter 62
by that logic, the Holy Spirit is more complex than others CM1
 
I don't think we give superiority over concepts like that at all, if all they do is create others.
 
Yuri, Planck, and others who didn't comment on these yet, what are your opinions on topics like law manipulation addition, the tiers upgrade, and the other spirits scaling to type 1?
 
Tier upgrades and Law Manipulation addition looks good. Neutral on the spirits.
 
Elizhaa said:
Treyni or Trainee is on an awakened demon lord level like Leon with Spirit King Fusion (Web Novel chapter 243) so she is 6-A with Spirit King Fusion.
  1. The addition should be in a second key that she will have as she obtained a stronger body in chapter 143 and there is no mentioned Spirit King Fusion prior from what I checked.
Click to expand...
Don't know anything about the verse, so I don't know why Spirt King Fusion would be the same level as that guy. So I can't comment on this.
Elizhaa said:
From this thread, it is already accepted that Law manipulation is valid; So, I propose adding law manipulation for characters who were listed to have the ability but for specific elements:
  1. A list of characters affected can be found here:
    1. https://archive.ph/68MCi
    2. https://archive.ph/DpK1B
Click to expand...
This linked to whole chapters, and I'll be honest, I can't read through all of that. So I can't comment to this either.
Elizhaa said:
I think Conceptual Manipulation should be Type 1, in the verse (Web Novel).
Click to expand...
I think it does qualify for Conceptual Manipulation, though it's way too vague for which type. I'm fine with defaulting to type 1 because it makes more sense in general, and type 2 is kind of specific, I doubt most writers would actually think it through enough to default to that.
 
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