The best superman movie gets downgraded (Superman vs The Elite)

[Emirp sumitpo]

The reasons are simple for why High 4-C is bad. The casual tone of Cold Cast describing the feat as "That was like, 15 suns blowing up in his face" is textbook hyperbole, and secondly, the actual explosion itself is nowhere near any magnitude of High 4-C. Also weird how the profile writes Supernovas instead of suns when the latter is stated but whatever. The actual feat itself is only Small Country level+

Superman tanks Cold Cast's strongest attack (Superman vs The Elite)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Considering the value is so close to baseline Country level (A gap of 1.01x), and narratively Superman is shown to be stronger than the group and manhandled them once he got serious, I think it's safe to upscale Superman to Country level

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Makes sense to me.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Seems fine

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So is one staff fine or should I get one more?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So is one staff fine or should I get one more?

I'd be safe and get at least 2, maybe 3 if you want to be absolutely certain.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

DDM liked the post so I guess he agrees?

 

[Duedate8898]

Looks good.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Makes sense

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ok, I think I can make the changes.

 

[Chariot190]

Disagree because you made a minor spelling mistake.

and narratively he's much stronger then the entire group

It's "than", not "then", get ****** kiddo.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm done

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Disagree because you made a minor spelling mistake.

It's "than", not "then", get ****** kiddo.

Ah shit

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

I'm.. a bit skeptical on this, I feel like Cold would be able to gauge how strong his blasts are, and with how fiction works, the blast not actually being that size isn't really a good argument. DC is no stranger to having absurdly powerful beings wreck no more than a few buildings in fights, take All-Star Superman for example. They throw him to the moon from the fortress and it breaks the moon in half, they throw him back to Earth and he just messes up a city block or two.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm.. a bit skeptical on this, I feel like Cold would be able to gauge how strong his blasts are, and with how fiction works, the blast not actually being that size isn't really a good argument. DC is no stranger to having absurdly powerful beings wreck no more than a few buildings in fights, take All-Star Superman for example. They throw him to the moon from the fortress and it breaks the moon in half, they throw him back to Earth and he just messes up a city block or two.

One, we don't know whether cold is able to calculate how strong his own power is. It's not like he's a genius or super smart or something. Secondly, I could understand that argument if Cold Cast had other feats to back that up. The AOE argument doesn't work as no one in the film portrays anything remotely close to Tier 4. And it doesn't debunk that cold cast's statement is very hyperbolic in the way he phrases it.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

One, we don't know whether cold is able to calculate how strong his own power is. It's not like he's a genius or super smart or something. Secondly, I could understand that argument if Cold Cast had other feats to back that up. The AOE argument doesn't work as no one in the film portrays anything remotely close to Tier 4. And it doesn't debunk that cold cast's statement is very hyperbolic in the way he phrases it.

I guess that first argument is fair, I'm not quite sure what you mean with the 2nd though. My point was that the size of the blast shouldn't debunk that it may be '15 suns exploding in his face'. An attack being said to be this strong, yet not doing enough damage to the environment to be that strong, is just how its written sometimes. Or else that blast would have probably ruined a good chunk of the solar system.

With how specific he is in how strong it is, it makes me question the authors/directors intention with said feat. It wasn't in the comics, so I believe it was added to show just how strong and durable Superman is for surviving it, like "wow, Superman is nuts! He took 15 Supernovas and is still standing!?"

 

[Confluctor]

Never understood where the whole 4-C shit even came from, so aye, downgrade it away

Also this can't be the best when all star exist. Fake fan

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Also this can't be the best when all star exist. Fake fan

I saw Superman vs The Elite first so I have a bias. Plus seeing the whole edgy superhero genre getting wrecked is always good

My point was that the size of the blast shouldn't debunk that it may be '15 suns exploding in his face'. An attack being said to be this strong, yet not doing enough damage to the environment to be that strong, is just how its written sometimes. Or else that blast would have probably ruined a good chunk of the solar system.

Again, a statement like is unreliable when the character it's coming from isn't exactly reliable. It seems more like Cold Cast overestimating how strong he is.

 

[Planck69]

I guess that first argument is fair, I'm not quite sure what you mean with the 2nd though. My point was that the size of the blast shouldn't debunk that it may be '15 suns exploding in his face'. An attack being said to be this strong, yet not doing enough damage to the environment to be that strong, is just how its written sometimes. Or else that blast would have probably ruined a good chunk of the solar system.

Uh no, the size is a massive debunk for these sorts of feats. AoE fallacy arguments only work when separate feats or statements and scaling put a character at a tier that his attacks don't regularly showcase. You'd have a point if Superman like, tanks a nebula collapsing some other time and this statement is then made but outside of that, no.

With how specific he is in how strong it is, it makes me question the authors/directors intention with said feat. It wasn't in the comics, so I believe it was added to show just how strong and durable Superman is for surviving it, like "wow, Superman is nuts! He took 15 Supernovas and is still standing!?"

Yeah, I think it's Rule of Cool.

Edit: I agree with this btw.

 

[Stefano4444]

Attack Potency and AoE its a thing people, i don't see why Cold Cast wouldn't know how powerful are his attacks and he doesn't have reason to lie.

Personally i disagree with the downgrade, at worst it can be left as possibly if we really want but i'm fully against remove it completely.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Attack Potency and AoE its a thing people

Did you not read the arguments against that above?

i don't see why Cold Cast wouldn't know how powerful are his attacks and he doesn't have reason to lie.

But why do we assume he knows how strong it is, when in character it's not like he's a smart dude.

That and the way he phrases it and says it casually is very hyperbolic.

 

[Planck69]

Attack Potency and AoE its a thing people, i don't see why Cold Cast wouldn't know how powerful are his attacks and he doesn't have reason to lie.

Already addressed above. AoE fallacy is only an argument if Superman has other feats scaling him to his current tier that are independent of this one.

He doesn't need a reason to lie to be hyperbolic, especially when we see the effect of the attack and how it's clearly not Large Star level. The feat takes precedent over the statement.

 

[Stefano4444]

But why do we assume he knows how strong it is, when in character it's not like he's a smart dude.

Why do you assume that he doesn't know? Its not like he has never used his powers before his fight with Superman, he had already fought with other supervillains.

And since when a character has to be a genius for its statements to have any validity?

Do you want me to list how many statements have been accepted here from characters that aren't genius? Because there are plenty of examples i can list.

That and the way he phrases it and says it casually is very hyperbolic.

The guy was in a state of shock when he realize that Superman was still alive, and way the stated the quote didn't sound that hyperbolic.

He doesn't need a reason to lie to be hyperbolic, especially when we see the effect of the attack and how it's clearly not Large Star level. The feat takes precedent over the statement.

With that logic then neither Wally West or Alan Scott are 4-B, since they never show to destroy any solar system.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Disagree because you made a minor spelling mistake.

It's "than", not "then", get ****** kiddo.

disagree FRA

The reasons are simple for why High 4-C is bad. The casual tone of Cold Cast describing the feat as "That was like, 15 suns blowing up in his face" is textbook hyperbole, and secondly, the actual explosion itself is nowhere near any magnitude of High 4-C. Also weird how the profile writes Supernovas instead of suns when the latter is stated but whatever. The actual feat itself is only Small Country level+

Superman tanks Cold Cast's strongest attack (Superman vs The Elite)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Considering the value is so close to baseline Country level (A gap of 1.01x), and narratively Superman is shown to be stronger than the group and manhandled them once he got serious, I think it's safe to upscale Superman to Country level

agreed

 

[Confluctor]

Wally and Alan shouldn't be 4-B, yes.

Out of curiosity, can you list some character who aren't geniuses but we take their statements at face value?

 

[Stefano4444]

Out of curiosity, can you list some character who aren't geniuses but we take their statements at face value?

Cell (solar system busting), Vegeta (planet busting) and Borsalino (lightspeed movement).

 

[Confluctor]

I agree, their shit shouldn't be used

 

[Bernkastelll]

Out of curiosity, can you list some character who aren't geniuses but we take their statements at face value?

Elder Kai maybe, but he kinda is specialized in the universe, so....

Cell, but it have several official sources backing up his claims...

Garou

Yhwach

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Cell

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Cell_is_100%_Absolutely_Positively_4-B_Confirmation_Blog_And_More#Argument_6:_Cell_does_not_know_his_own_power In other words. No. And Cell has MANY other sources to back his statement. Cold Cast does not

Vegeta

I'm pretty sure vegeta has actually done it before

Borsalino.

What about this uses their own statements?

 

[Stefano4444]

I'm pretty sure vegeta has actually done it before

Only in the Anime, we never see him destroy a planet in the Manga.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What about this uses their own statements?

SoL statements that are back up by official sources

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

SoL statements that are back up by official sources

That is more proof then whatever Cold Cast has.

The only thing backing High 4-C is Cold Cast's statement.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Well, I don't disagree with statements, but a tier 6 feat being bumped to tier 4 due statements like ''as it was X suns blowing up'' indeed seems hyperbole....unless I have more context about the feat itself, I remove my ''agree'' vote, I shall watch the movie first

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The feat is literally the highest thing in the entire movie.

 

[Stefano4444]

Elder Kai maybe, but he kinda is specialized in the universe, so....

Cell, but it have several official sources backing up his claims...

Garou

Yhwach

You can also include a good chunck of JRPG and WRPG where their tiers quite often come from statements from lore, at least when it come to top tiers.

 

[Stefano4444]

Garou

You can also add Lord Boros with his statement of wiping out the surface of Earth.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You can also include a good chunck of JRPG and WRPG where their tiers quite often come from statements from lore, at least when it come to top tiers.

Can you give actual examples? Plus context matters.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You can also add Lord Boros with his statement of wiping out the surface of Earth.

His statement is backed up with Saitama's shocked expression, implying Boros's attack poses some form of threat and he ain't kidding, and multiple guidebook statements.

Does Cold Cast have that?

 

[Armorchompy]

Agree with the downgrade, with no other feats at this level a statement isn't enough

Also, Boros has wiped out planets in the past, that is a completely false equivalence. There's a huge difference between lore and "lol i just hit him with 15 suns"

 

[Stefano4444]

Boros has wiped out planets in the past

He never specifically say that he destroyed the surface of those planets with a single attack, it could have done it overtime.

And multiple guidebook statements.

The feat has been accepted when before the guidebooks.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The feat has been accepted when before the guidebooks.

Standards have changed overtime. Back then standards were much looser.