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The Current Ruling on YouTube profiles and other issues 2

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"As for the overall issue. Just imagine the youtube videos are self published books or indie games or something and apply similar but not exact standards. I honestly believe it's that simple"

My opinion from the previous thread
 
I'm for having stricter standards, as long as we are clear that getting rid of every profile that comes from youtube shouldn't be a thing. Because I was getting that vibe from Cal. Regardless, I feel like verses that do more skit, or review related content should not be allowed on the wiki. Short stories like Who Killed Markiplier, or Don't Hug Me I'm Scared should be fine.
 
I don't know about that. The point is that there needs to be fictional characters and setting, actual continuity, internal logic etc. I don't think it matters much what the content is if all these conditions are followed
 
Just a few notes.

Here are the current, updated, versions of the Editing Rules that we came up with after a long discussion in the previous thread:

  • The VS Battles Wiki is, first and foremost, a fictional character indexing site. All featured characters in our profiles should originate within actual stories, from notable or popular works. A story includes a plot, a fictional setting, and having a defined canon. At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.
  • Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki.
  • Do not create any joke profiles, as they do not fit into our tiering system. Also avoid creating profiles for fan characters, advertisement characters, memes, YouTube personalities, reality television, talk shows, music videos, stage personas, and the like. If you wish to create such profiles, feel free to do so in the Joke Battles wiki instead. Take note that there is obviously a difference between a profile written as a joke, and the character itself being automatically funny.
  • Take note that we are not experienced lawyers, so it is hard to precisely cover every angle, but to explain further, we are trying to keep the wiki reasonably streamlined and focused, to not allow in real people. Stage personas, such as YouTube and TV show hosts, tend to lack a 4th wall between them and the audience, and are not explicitly fictional in nature, as part of an actual story with a plot, regardless of special effects. They are real people who are affecting a behavioural change/acting out of character relative to their true personalities, but the setting is otherwise unchanged from reality and not fictional in nature. Characters are separate from the real actors portraying them, and are not just variations of themselves.
  • It is also prohibited to create profiles for fictionalised stage personas for other reasons, whether these have their origins in music videos, educational programs, or otherwise: For one thing, it is inappropriate for largely underage wiki members to discuss which real people that would hypothetically be most capable of killing each other, and for another, a vast majority of these artists are extremely willing to file lawsuits against anybody who uses their brand for which they own intellectual property rights, regardless whether or not these are meant to be used for commercial or fair use purposes. It would be recommended and preferable to avoid adding such profiles to Joke Battles as well.
  • Corporate mascots and advertisement characters are not part of fictional storylines, regardless of feats in commercials and similar. It is preferable to not allow any incoherent figments without substance to be featured here. However, if they have officially published comicbooks, games, etcetera to scale from, they can probably be included.
  • The only exception to these rules is Real Life, which serves as more of a reference for feats and common weapons, events, and animals, rather than being an actual verse.
  • Characters that originate from fictional canons or franchises, and share the same names as their real world counterparts are allowed, on the condition that they fulfill the requirements mentioned above.
  • Preferably avoid adding character profiles that may be inappropriate or perceived to be in poor taste. This may include characters, weapons, etcetera, that are ill-suited for a statistics-indexing wiki, due to having no reliable feats, or ones from media which may be too controversial or otherwise unnecessary to be featured. This includes pages that would strictly be written as a joke, and as such more suitably belong in the Joke Battles wiki. Although pages for mature verses like Berserk and Demonbane are allowed, they must have coherent stories that are not strictly focused on sex, and the pages have to be kept clean, without erotic images.
Sir Ovens also wrote a draft page for more elaborate new regulations here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Sir_Ovens/sandbox/Profile_Addition_Standards
 
Well, I will probably have to clean up the structure and language flow a bit.

Anyway, does anybody have any comments about the new rules that we wrote up?
 
I think this issue really epitomizes the state of the wiki currently, and overcoming it is tantamount to overcoming all the problems we currently face.

In the past (at least, during the time when most of the organization took root), the Wiki might've been overly strict, with it's standards being set to the highest degree possible (although ironically giving birth to below optimal quality profiles by today's standards due to us perfecting the template over the years).

Now, the wiki is becoming more and more free and people are exploring new avenues that wouldn't even be considered in ye old days. But that newly gained freedom has led to the potential of opening the flood gates for a whole slew of chaos.

The wiki is at a crossroads here, and the way forward I think is by always picking and judging every case on it's own merits. General guidelines of course will continue to be a thing and for good reason, but you know...just wanted to get that out of the way since it's relevant.
 
The content does not matter, the structure does. I had a conversation with The Everlasting and according to him:

"Not like it's wrong to have profiles from stuff that originated from YouTube, but it feels like people are taking advantage of that to make profiles for what amounts to collections of gags."

"Like, one guy tried making profiles for ASDF, which is basically just one long series of skits, because it's a YouTube thing. This also runs into the issue of "its a gag series so we don't have to worry about consistency" that we once had with cartoons like Looney Tunes, which the ASDF guy was also abusing. People are taking what's honestly just a mess of inconsistent gags and stringing them together into a profile with the explanation of "well it's not against the rules"

"IMO, the thing should be that the YouTube series has a narrative. We obviously shouldn't disallow an otherwise legitimate series just because of the platform it was released on. Red vs. Blue originally started as just a series on YouTube using Halo models, but it has a massive narrative and a cast of entirely original characters. It wouldn't be any different if it were released on, I dunno, HBO or something."

"It's not about the content itself, it's how it can be structured into a profile. If a verse has a complete, consistent narrative and cast of characters that just happens to be on YT, it shouldn't make a difference. But this rule should be clearly defined, or else we get people trying to make profiles for what are basically just gags, just because YT stuff is allowed."

"So I don't think it's really about reevaluating our standards, but looking into what it's resulted in and trying to clarify them to others more."

I completely agree with him, btw.
 
I also think that The Everlasting makes sense.

Do you have any ideas for how we should reword the regulations that I posted above to adapt to his suggestions?
 
I also agree with Everlasting, and I too don't think we should just disallow characters or verses just for being gag feats and I didn't mean to come out that way. I just meant that we do need to use common sense in distinguishing concrete feats from feats that aren't so concrete. It is often difficult to grasp as gag feats, outliers, and PIS tend to be very inconsistent topics as they are. Not sure how to reword it entirely, but I can give it a try.

"Characters and Verses who originate from a YouTube series are allowed, but they should be taken into consideration about having some form of narrative. Being a gag franchise with inconsistent feats and powers callings shouldn't automatically excuse the verse of not being allowed; however, the original YouTube characters should only scale from feats demonstrated within their own continuity rather than cross scale from any notable cameo characters. For more information, see Crossovers, Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles, Outlier, and Plot-Induced Stupidity."

I'm open for better wording, but this will hopefully be a good start.
 
Should I highlight this thread so we get more responses?
 
Okay. So how should we update our rules based on The Everlasting's suggestions, or are they fine as they are?
 
Updating the rules based on Everlasting's suggestions sounds good.

Verses like ASDF should certainly not be on this wiki, anyways.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. So how should we update our rules based on The Everlasting's suggestions, or are they fine as they are?
Click to expand...
Updating the rules based on Everlasting's suggestions is fine with me.
 
I wrote my summary based on Everlasting's suggestion quoted by Sera above, but said I was open for better wording.
 
Which rule section did you rewrite?

(Sorry. I am extremely overworked right now.)
 
"Characters and Verses who originate from a YouTube series are allowed, but they should be taken into consideration about having some form of narrative. Being a gag franchise with inconsistent feats and powers callings shouldn't automatically excuse the verse of not being allowed; however, the original YouTube characters should only scale from feats demonstrated within their own continuity rather than cross scale from any notable cameo characters. For more information, see Crossovers, Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles, Outlier, and Plot-Induced Stupidity."

This, was my suggestion. And as I said, I'm open for better wording.
 
Antvasima said:
Which rule section did you rewrite?
(Sorry. I am extremely overworked right now.)
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus basically made a new rule based on The Everlasting's suggestion, @Antvasima
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I wrote my summary based on Everlasting's suggestion quoted by Sera above, but said I was open for better wording.
Click to expand...
It seems about fine. I was thinking that fictional setting should be stated as requirement but I think this Editing Rules below take care of it:

  • The VS Battles Wiki is, first and foremost, a fictional character indexing site. All featured characters in our profiles should originate within actual stories, from notable or popular works. A story includes a plot, a fictional setting, and having a defined canon. At the very least, the setting should be entirely fictional in nature, with no true bearing over the real world.
I think I can make a update text for improvements to help:

  • Characters and Verses who originate from a YouTube series are allowed, but they should be taken into consideration about having some form of narrative. Being a gag franchise with inconsistent feats and powerscalings shouldn't automatically excuse the verse of not being allowed; however, the original YouTube characters should only scale from feats demonstrated within their own continuity rather than cross scale from any notable cameo characters. For more informations, see Crossovers, Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles, Outlier, and Plot-Induced Stupidity.
 
Bump. I can see about cleaning up the wording a bit tomorrow, but right now I think we should go through the verses we already have from YouTube stuff and decide what can stay and what goes.
 
Mr King said he was fine with ASDF, but simply felt the scaling sucked. And DMUA said something about being fine with them as well.
 
I'm strongly against CalebCity (Verse).
 
I don't think a narrative is actually needed. Just lore and a coherent setting
 
I cleaned up the structure of Elizhaa's suggestion a bit:

"Characters and verses that originate from a YouTube series are allowed, but they should have a reasonably coherent narrative. Being a joke franchise with inconsistent feats and powerscaling should not automatically disallow the verse. However, the original YouTube characters should only scale from feats demonstrated within their own continuity rather than cross-scale from any notable cameo characters. For further information, read the following information pages: Crossovers, Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles, Outlier, and Plot-Induced Stupidity."
 
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