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Wasn't king piccolo stated to be omnipotent then he should be tier 1-A if not tier 0
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Upgrading the Great Sage Mitsuki and Yogiri to 1-A.
- Thread starter Azertyhuuh
- Start date
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Yeah.... This is an easy disagreement for me...
Also, when are you gonna start counting votes,or are you still only gonna count people who agree with you as you do with your other threads?
Also, when are you gonna start counting votes,
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No, you are the one who knows nothing about the series, yet unfortunately you keep embarrassing yourself. It is enough to know that Yogiri’s existence is what makes everything possible to exist—everything. If his existence were denied, no existence or phenomenon would be allowed to exist. The God himself explicitly stated that Yogiri’s existence is more important than the existence of the Great Sage himself. Also, existing everywhere differs depending on the series, smart one. If there are dimensions, worlds, stories, and narratives, and if a character exists everywhere, then that existence includes all of those narratives, stories, and dimensions—they exist everywhere, in short. Such an existence would be all-encompassing, extending across everything, including higher levels of existence such as 1-A and above, and so on. And it is not the case that every character who exists everywhere is classified as 1-A; that depends on the cosmology of the series in which the character exists. I will not waste any more of my time with you—say whatever you want. You have exhausted me.
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guys
where does the wolf from 3 little pigs scale?
where does the wolf from 3 little pigs scale?
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BoastJr
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Dawg Yogiri ain't Shallow Vernal
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I'll address the scans themselves firstn
Okay, and? An exception doesn't mean he dreams all worlds themselves.
Simply say, the "applicable in all worlds" just means the powers in question work in every world, not that it can encompass/destroy all worlds. They still can only destroy the local world they are in.
For example, there's this guy whose sword can destroy any world it's in, but that doesn't mean it can destroy the entire ultimate ensemble world, nor is it shown to do so:
Mitsuki also specifically says "this world is my dream" in context to the sword guy traveling to different worlds.
Sure, he questions if all those worlds were Mitsuki's dream, but that is merely a self question and nothing more, something that was never even answer as "yes" or "no" inside the novel. Afterwards without an answer, he just starts thinking "all those were Mitsuki's dream" but that's pretty much just an appeal to emotion. He's mentally shaken right now due to how surprising the situation is that he's making conclusions from his own self questions himself.
Whereas, if we go outside the novel and to the author's words himself, which you like to use all too well:
Refer to what I said above about the sword
This, btw, can also be done by just being, well, SUPERIOR quantitatively. Mitsuki's basically the strongest God (except the Ultimate God from Volume 15)
Now, on to your words rather than the scans
Nothing in the scans say that, so prove it. It just says he can cut anything, and examplified by him cutting some worlds. In fact, the very notion that when he slashes the sword, only a single world gets destroyed each time means he can't destroyed them all.
Again, you'd have to prove otherwise with scans if that's not the case.
Also, they aren't really even something that "doesn't belong to any world in particlar". The scan literally says that these "exceptions" are nothing special, with their ONLY special power being that their powers are applicable in all worlds.
Scans? (Cuz the ones you sent don't say that)
Though even if you do prove this part, doesn't mean anything as that'll just mean Gods can't resist spatial hax.
Well, as shown above, only this specific world they are in right now is Mitsuki's dream. The moment the sword guy enters this world, he's entering Mitsuki's "dream".
But the way, the "seeing everything as a dream" isn't even a state of being (Ontology) in this case, it's an "effect"
Which goes along perfectly with this scan:
Gyazo
gyazo.com
So it is blatantly stated that Mitsuki "turned" it into his dream, not "it was always his dream". This is just blatant subjective reality, not outright r>f
Whereas said "dream effect" (a.k.a. nigh omnipotence) is due to Alexia and 2 other goddesses giving the originally weak and normal Mitsuki their powers.
And, mind you, Mitsuki wasn't all "the world is my dream and I'm Omnipotent in it" from the start. Before he got empowered by the goddesses quantitatively (which, btw, is also an anti feat for r>f), he has just a normal boy that could be harmed simply by the rubble of the house falling on him.
So yeh, there's no "Mitsuki was always the dreamer" type thing.
In the end his "dreaming the world" isn't a state but a power. Which falls under subjective reality, which is also what it's listed as on his profile at the moment
No. Even the author says otherwise:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.imgur.com
Actually no, only leading questions are prohibited, not "all words from author". Generally WoG is allowed as long as there's a reason to believe it's not a leading question or the questioner does not ask with the intention of powerscaling.
Questions regarding WoG (what is accepted and what is not)
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...vsbattles.com
If you don't want to read the entire thread you can just focus on this comment:
Questions regarding WoG (what is accepted and what is not)
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...
So yeah, this WoG would be allowed BECAUSE it's not a leading question or trying to get the verse to a higher tier. For example, the question about "is Yogiri beyond the concept of dimensions" is clearly a leading question because if the author answers yes, it'll get Yogiri to insta 1-A or Low 1-A. It has nothing relevant to do with the plot of the novel and is clearly only asked with powerscaling intentions.
On the other hand, the WoG I used is "does Mizuki dream the entire ensemble world or not?" is relevant to the plot, as it's something directly effecting the plot of the novel and not a powerscaling question to get the verse at a higher rating.
Eh, not really. Seeing an object as fiction isn't r>f but more so subjective reality, really. Otherwise you're have contraindications like the sword being less real than the world around if that it's effecting.
This is just plain wrong as shown above in the scans I sent. Before getting his powers, Mitsuki was just an utterly powerless pretty boy who could get hurt even from the rubble of destroying a house falling on him, lol
So count me in disagree, goat. My lowly self is too low to attempt to agree in your threads
Thank you for doing the Lord's work
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I love this type of people—the ones who don’t understand, don’t get convinced, and laugh behind the screen thinking they’re right, when they haven’t even followed the work at all. You find them arguing in every topic without actually knowing the series, just debating for the sake of it, throwing around tier scans and the like to look smart and wise, when in reality they’re only embarrassing themselves.
Done? First of all, the true form is the end of everything—the end of something called concepts and of something called existence itself. It is indescribable, impossible to define or delimit, and even the Absolute God cannot describe it or know what it truly is, referring to it only as “that.” He himself said it cannot be described except as “it is what it is,” just as I am me and you are you—there is simply no way to describe it.
Meanwhile, you keep ignoring that Yogiri’s very existence is higher than even that of the Great Sage, who sees the entire world as a dream. As Kuroyo himself said to him, Yogiri’s existence is more important and greater than yours to begin with. And when I tell you that his true form exists everywhere—do you even understand what that means? It simply means he exists everywhere. Even alongside the Great Sage, he exists throughout the entire story, here and there, on higher and lower levels alike. That is what omnipresence means, which makes his true form present even alongside the Great Sage and his dream, both of which are nothing more than parts of his end. So please, don’t tire me any further. Thank y
ou.
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Can you like stop attacking people who disagree with you?
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Ngl dude. The scans you used aren't even useful for proving they're 1-A. They're all just abilities that they can do. The scans you provided only show Space Manipulation, and while you argue that he can destroy ALL worlds, the scans aren't even showing it. Kyuuzaburou is just destroying one world after another, unlike what you're saying. @Astral_Trinity439 literally provided all the evidence that further disproves your reasoning, even using WOG that solidifies the debunk. Even @SweetDao has shown evidence that the Great Sage ain't even all that.
The scans you provided are nothing more than just OP hax.
The scans you provided are nothing more than just OP hax.
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Hey OP, you still have a problem, ur 1 thread about the 2B upgrade hasn’t been accepted. This means this thread itself can’t be used until the other one is accepted
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Hahaha, LOL.
First of all, the sword is rated 2-A, and it can also eliminate the higher gods, who are omnipotent and capable of destroying worlds and everything within the Final Ensemble and beyond. And honestly, why am I even arguing with you? The sword is currently rated 2-B and has now become 2-A, so your words have no importance at all.
No, no—please don’t defend people without knowing what you’re talking about. No, no, brother. Provide proof that it isn’t that powerful. Hahahahaha, I seriously can’t stop laughing. You’re talking seriously? Do you even know who the Great Sage is? Hahaha. He is the strongest person Yogiri has ever faced in his entire life, and the third strongest character in Instant Death, and you’re saying he isn’t strong?
Alright then, brother, what did I say? First of all, what is the Great Sage? I told you that the Great Sage dreams the entire world. The whole world is nothing but a dream seen by the Great Sage, and the Great Sage himself said that even if this entire world were destroyed, you would never reach his core. It makes no sense for a mere character within my dream to destroy the dream itself, right? That is exactly what the Great Sage said. And Yogiri cut the connection between the dream and the dreamer—the relationship between them. The dreamer is the Great Sage, and the dream is the entire world he is dreaming.
Logically, the dreamer exists on a higher level of reality, while the dream he dreams is fiction, as he himself said—the dream is not reality, just imagination, and the dreamer is more “real.” So how about you go check the Reality–Fiction Transcendence page? If a character regards a single universe as fiction, along with all its characters, that qualifies for 1-A. And if a character regards a world as a dream, it qualifies for 1-A as well. That is exactly what happened here. And the sword, which is currently 2-B and capable of destroying even the higher gods, is nothing more than a part of the Great Sage’s imagination.
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isn’t all of the 2-A rating still gone? It’s still 4A
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- Thread starter
- #94
2-B??? I said an upgrade to 2-A, not 2-B.
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Mb, but it still isn’t accepted, so the verse is still 4A. Why don’t you go there first and make a summary so you get one more vote?
Astral_Trinity439
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Tbh, i'm currently taking a break so i decide to skim through the thread but
oke only these two things already blow up any argument for 1-A out of the water
Anyway, i disagree with the thread for now, now i'm going to sleep
Ayo what? This isn't 1-A R>F, just Subjective Reality, by this very logic, anyone who can project their dream into reality gonna have 1-A
Yikes,
oke only these two things already blow up any argument for 1-A out of the water
Anyway, i disagree with the thread for now, now i'm going to sleep
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You're gonna have to provide scans for that if you want to prove The Great Sage is actually dreaming the entire world.
Because if you're using this as evidence for the Great Sage dreaming all worlds, then no. The picture does not show The Great Sage dreaming all worlds, merely describing that those that have notable characteristics in THEIR world are not even impressive on their own, but because they are known for one thing, they are called the Exception (Basically, Mitsuki's charm). Literally says so in the picture itself.
@SweetDao even provided a part 2 of your first scan that was left out.
I'll address the scans themselves firstn
Okay, and? An exception doesn't mean he dreams all worlds themselves.
Simply say, the "applicable in all worlds" just means the powers in question work in every world, not that it can encompass/destroy all worlds. They still can only destroy the local world they are in.
For example, there's this guy whose sword can destroy any world it's in, but that doesn't mean it can destroy the entire ultimate ensemble world, nor is it shown to do so:
Mitsuki also specifically says "this world is my dream" in context to the sword guy traveling to different worlds.
Sure, he questions if all those worlds were Mitsuki's dream, but that is merely a self question and nothing more, something that was never even answer as "yes" or "no" inside the novel. Afterwards without an answer, he just starts thinking "all those were Mitsuki's dream" but that's pretty much just an appeal to emotion. He's mentally shaken right now due to how surprising the situation is that he's making conclusions from his own self questions himself.
Whereas, if we go outside the novel and to the author's words himself, which you like to use all too well:
Refer to what I said above about the sword
This, btw, can also be done by just being, well, SUPERIOR quantitatively. Mitsuki's basically the strongest God (except the Ultimate God from Volume 15)
Now, on to your words rather than the scans
Nothing in the scans say that, so prove it. It just says he can cut anything, and examplified by him cutting some worlds. In fact, the very notion that when he slashes the sword, only a single world gets destroyed each time means he can't destroyed them all.
Again, you'd have to prove otherwise with scans if that's not the case.
Also, they aren't really even something that "doesn't belong to any world in particlar". The scan literally says that these "exceptions" are nothing special, with their ONLY special power being that their powers are applicable in all worlds.
Scans? (Cuz the ones you sent don't say that)
Though even if you do prove this part, doesn't mean anything as that'll just mean Gods can't resist spatial hax.
Well, as shown above, only this specific world they are in right now is Mitsuki's dream. The moment the sword guy enters this world, he's entering Mitsuki's "dream".
But the way, the "seeing everything as a dream" isn't even a state of being (Ontology) in this case, it's an "effect"
Which goes along perfectly with this scan:
Gyazo
So it is blatantly stated that Mitsuki "turned" it into his dream, not "it was always his dream". This is just blatant subjective reality, not outright r>f
Whereas said "dream effect" (a.k.a. nigh omnipotence) is due to Alexia and 2 other goddesses giving the originally weak and normal Mitsuki their powers.
And, mind you, Mitsuki wasn't all "the world is my dream and I'm Omnipotent in it" from the start. Before he got empowered by the goddesses quantitatively (which, btw, is also an anti feat for r>f), he has just a normal boy that could be harmed simply by the rubble of the house falling on him.
So yeh, there's no "Mitsuki was always the dreamer" type thing.
In the end his "dreaming the world" isn't a state but a power. Which falls under subjective reality, which is also what it's listed as on his profile at the moment
No. Even the author says otherwise:
imgur.com
Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.
Actually no, only leading questions are prohibited, not "all words from author". Generally WoG is allowed as long as there's a reason to believe it's not a leading question or the questioner does not ask with the intention of powerscaling.
Questions regarding WoG (what is accepted and what is not)
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...
If you don't want to read the entire thread you can just focus on this comment:
Questions regarding WoG (what is accepted and what is not)
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. So I asked this question to some staff in discord but some is not enough, thus comes this question thread. So there's this review section on the Japanese site (syosetu) which allows author-reader interaction to an extent. Now the author of TenSura...
So yeah, this WoG would be allowed BECAUSE it's not a leading question or trying to get the verse to a higher tier. For example, the question about "is Yogiri beyond the concept of dimensions" is clearly a leading question because if the author answers yes, it'll get Yogiri to insta 1-A or Low 1-A. It has nothing relevant to do with the plot of the novel and is clearly only asked with powerscaling intentions.
On the other hand, the WoG I used is "does Mizuki dream the entire ensemble world or not?" is relevant to the plot, as it's something directly effecting the plot of the novel and not a powerscaling question to get the verse at a higher rating.
Eh, not really. Seeing an object as fiction isn't r>f but more so subjective reality, really. Otherwise you're have contraindications like the sword being less real than the world around if that it's effecting.
This is just plain wrong as shown above in the scans I sent. Before getting his powers, Mitsuki was just an utterly powerless pretty boy who could get hurt even from the rubble of destroying a house falling on him, lol
So count me in disagree, goat. My lowly self is too low to attempt to agree in your threads
@Astral_Trinity439 even provided more info about Mitsuki's dreaming.
Literally says by the author themselves that ASTRAL provided. So, yeah, Mitsuki is not dreaming ALL worlds, only his.
If only it were that easy, a lot of characters would be in 1-A.
Please, follow your own advice.
I'mma go to sleep peace
Astral_Trinity439
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Should also highlight this tbf, it's a pretty clear and good scan
Gyazo
gyazo.com
Turning something into your dream is pretty blatantly just subjective reality lol
Tierable R>F doesn't work like this
BoastJr
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Round 1
Azertyhuuh (Yogiri is 1-A) vs Sweetdao (Yogiri is not 1-A)
Winner = Azertyhuuh (Low Diff)
Justification: Dao didn't properly refute anything and was actively making arguments for the opposition. As well basically admitting Yogiri is actually 1-A
Judges : Boastjr, Hecker2222
Azertyhuuh (Yogiri is 1-A) vs Sweetdao (Yogiri is not 1-A)
Winner = Azertyhuuh (Low Diff)
Justification: Dao didn't properly refute anything and was actively making arguments for the opposition. As well basically admitting Yogiri is actually 1-A
Judges : Boastjr, Hecker2222
Last edited:
Astral_Trinity439
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Wdym low diff baosty
Should be NCOD
Afterall the opposition arguments were so afraid of Azertyhuuh GOAT that they refuted themselves without him having to do anything ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Undus approves
Astral_Trinity439
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Just like vergil and danteI am always involved in random BS that you made up bro
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The Great Sage dreams of the entire world; he does not turn imagination into reality. Rather, the whole world is nothing more than a dream he is dreaming. The dreamer always exists on a higher level of reality, while the dream is the imagination. The entire world and all its characters—even the sword that can destroy worlds and kill higher gods—are nothing more than parts of his imagination as well. ↓
The Great Sage mocks Koryu and tells him that all of this is just a dream and that it doesn’t matter if he dies in it because it’s only a dream. Would you get angry or sad if your character died in a game? Simply put, you exist in a higher reality and can return whenever you want ↓
In short, the entire world is nothing more than a dream dreamed by the Great Sage. Even if the world were completely destroyed, it would not reach his core. It is illogical for a character inside a dream to be able to destroy the dream itself, isn’t it? The Great Sage clearly fulfills R > F, because he sees the entire world as mere fiction, and the world itself is his dream↓
If the Great Sage dies, the entire world will also collapse, because it is merely the Great Sage’s dream. Everything within it will disappear from existence, since he is the dreamer. If the Great Sage dies, the dream ends, and with it the entire world, because the world and everyone in it are parts of his dream and imagination. On top of that, the Great Sage says to him: how could a character in my dream kill me? And even if that were possible, it would destroy this world ↓
Yogiri here severed the connection between the dreamer and the dream itself, causing the dreamer to lose the ability to control his dream. After this, the Great Sage did not understand what had happened, so the god Kouryou explained it to him: Yogiri had destroyed the link between the dream and the dreamer, making him unable to control his dream. He gave an analogy using a game as well.
Yogiri did this because the Great Sage is the one who dreams the entire world, and if he were to die, the whole dream would vanish from existence. That is why Yogiri severed the connection between the dream and the dreamer, turning him into merely a being existing to support the world—that is, to maintain the dream and observe it—without being able to intervene in it or act from his higher realit
y↓
If a character is considered a single universe or spacetime as mere fiction, along with all its characters, that alone is enough to qualify them for this level and make them qualitatively superior to that universe or spacetime. This means the author’s statement that it does not affect the entire Ultimate Ensemble does not negate anything. It is not necessary for the character to consider the entire Ultimate Ensemble as their imagination; it is sufficient that they encompass at least one universe or one spacetime fabric and be qualitatively superior to it for the character to qualify for this level.
The Great Sage has indeed achieved this, because the Kyuuzaburou Sword—which can cut through the Supreme Gods, destroy any world in the Ensemble Universe, and annihilate entire worlds—was classified as 2B and will become 2A after revision. That sword itself is only a part of the Great Sage’s imagination, and even the Supreme Gods are also just parts of his dream. Therefore, the Great Sage fulfills this criterion ↓
Note: This sword will become 2A after the revision because I won a discussion on this matter, and the cosmology ranking will be adjusted to reach 2A since we resolved the issue regarding the concept of infinity. Therefore, this sword will soon be 2A.
Volume 14, Chapter 17
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Following
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Bump, also MODS WE NEED YOU, OP HAS TOO MUCH AURA
Shiraito983
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disagree FRA
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really using chatgpt with that — bro is not slick
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Thats a very misleading generalization. Some People do infact use that dash and dont use chatgpt.
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Very unlikely but sure
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ARCHIVE YOUR DAMN IMAGES.
Imgbb will delete images even if you select it not to. Use archive.li to take a snapshot.
Imgbb will delete images even if you select it not to. Use archive.li to take a snapshot.
Astral_Trinity439
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Or just use a better site,
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dissagree fr
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Bump
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this should be closed, as it has like 3 staff disagrees already, gonna send it to all purpose so someone checks it out, also bump
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There is only one tho, no?
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mb nvm, still sended to mods to check
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he's indirectly affected by yogiri. people are dying: passively affected by yogiri xD
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There is one moderator who objected and did not provide any reasons for his objection, so his objection is as if it does not exist, so I will not even put him on the list of opponents until he provides his reason, and also the topic has just started and it will never be closed without my permission, and I have not finished working here or presenting all the arguments, and anyone who objects, whether staff or a member, must provide reasons and also respond to the arguments, and this morning I edited this topic and added new information to it, so the discussion is still ongoing until now and no one has refuted anything so far, and please review the topic again because I have just edited it.
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