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Urashiki Upgrade

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Testarossa002

Testarossa002

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Breathes
This blog was accepted.
There’s not much to add as all the relevant contexts are in the blog itself. I’ll just be focusing on potential pushbacks.
C: Why is the assumption that he made the entire journey with just flight speed? After all, Otsutsuki have the innate ability to open portals and travel wherever they want. A technique Urashiki himself has demonstrated multiple times.
Yes, all that is true.
However, Space-Time techniques in the verse (whether ninja-made or otherwise) require something (usually chakra) to hone in on before it’s done. They can’t just teleport wherever they like.
  • Obito needs to “mark” foreign dimensions to teleport there
  • FTG users mark their intended destination beforehand before attempting to jump there
  • Summoning jutsu requires a preexisting contract before summoning
  • Sasuke can travel to other dimensions by:
  • Otsutsuki-based STN also works similarly to Sasuke’s version (no shit). They can teleport somewhere by:
Urashiki couldn’t have done any of the above because:
  • We see him land from a flight
  • He wasn’t tracking anyone’s chakra. If he did, he could have just shown up directly instead of searching throughout space
  • He didn’t even know anything about the planet as he had never been there before.
It was after he got there that Momoshiki and Kinshiki could get to earth via his portal.
Click to expand...

C: This is a huge upgrade that isn't replicated anywhere else. Textbook case for an outlier.
Not really
Let's look at the guidelines for determining outliers
  • Is it a big jump or drop in power?
    • No. I'll elaborate below
  • Is it a unique or exceptional incident?
    • No. I'll elaborate below
  • Is the event unexplained and unjustified?
    • No. Urashiki needed to find Kaguya's planet as the latter had failed to report back to her superiors. That was the reason for the feat and it's explained as much in the material itself.
  • Does the event break the previously established power-scaling?
    • This is where I'll explain point 1. This is a space travel speed feat. The first of its kind we see in the verse. It's not a massive jump in tiers because there isn't a jump in the first place. No reference to how fast these guys are in space. As a result, it doesn’t break previously established power-scaling because there isn't a power-scaling for this feat
  • Does the event break with the narrative of the work?
Click to expand...
Scaling
As mentioned above, it is a space travel speed feat as site standards prevent feats like this from being used if the character in question isn't depicted to be reacting to objects while moving at that speed. Planets don't count as they're big enough to be observed from far away, which can allow said character to decelerate before they get close enough to it.
However, there are avenues for other characters to scale off this feat, but that would be treated in a follow-up thread.
For now, though, Urashiki’s speed section would look similar to what can be found on Captain Marvel and Silver Surfer pages
That's all
Barcelona and Man City are playing at the same time. Don't burn the thread till I get back
Agree: @Nierre @FinePoint @LephyrTheRevanchist
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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Testarossa002 said:
Breathes
This blog was accepted.
There’s not much to add as all the relevant contexts are in the blog itself. I’ll just be focusing on potential pushbacks.
Scaling
As mentioned above, it is a space travel speed feat as site standards prevent feats like this from being used if the character in question isn't depicted to be reacting to objects while moving at that speed. Planets don't count as they're big enough to be observed from far away, which can allow said character to decelerate before they get close enough to it.
However, there are avenues for other characters to scale off this feat, but that would be treated in a follow-up thread.
For now, though, Urashiki’s speed section would look similar to what can be found on Captain Marvel and Silver Surfer pages
That's all
Barcelona and Man City are playing at the same time. Don't burn the thread till I get back
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Click to expand...
Agree

i didnt read anything on the OP
 
Testarossa002 said:
Breathes
This blog was accepted.
There’s not much to add as all the relevant contexts are in the blog itself. I’ll just be focusing on potential pushbacks.
Scaling
As mentioned above, it is a space travel speed feat as site standards prevent feats like this from being used if the character in question isn't depicted to be reacting to objects while moving at that speed. Planets don't count as they're big enough to be observed from far away, which can allow said character to decelerate before they get close enough to it.
However, there are avenues for other characters to scale off this feat, but that would be treated in a follow-up thread.
For now, though, Urashiki’s speed section would look similar to what can be found on Captain Marvel and Silver Surfer pages
That's all
Barcelona and Man City are playing at the same time. Don't burn the thread till I get back
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Click to expand...
Bro is on a 3 thread win streak.
 
I mostly agree but I have a small problem. You can "enter a constellation" from many different directions, not just from the side of the furthest star, it depends on where he started.

If Urashiki entered from the southern edge he'd be coming from the 10k+ light years distance but if he entered from the eastern or northern edge he'd be significantly closer to earth while still being considered to have "just entered the constellation".

Is there any reason to believe he specifically entered from the direction of the furthest star? If not I'd say using either a median or (more accurately imo) an average distance between the stars in the constellation and earth instead would be the most accurate.
 
seen this and agree, so long as the calc is gtg.

Another thing about the outlier point is that, as far as long-distance travel speed, the Otsutsuki are extreme outliers to the rest of the verse.

The Otsutsuki are a small group of individuals in a verse where interstellar travel is otherwise largely impossible due to their physiology and the vast majority of people being incapable of flying.

The Otsutsuki is also a specific faction in Naruto/Boruto where this is important, Their entire purpose is to travel through space, find planets across the universe that can serve as potential God Trees, inform a superior Otsutsuki, and come back to terraform them.

99% of the verse doesn't have MFTL+ space flight or feats that imply such, but 99% of the verse also aren't planet-terraforming Alien Parasytes that can fly and breathe in space, with a pretty important part of their lore and narrative being the capacity and sole desire to freely travel the cosmos on a quest to become gods, Galactus style.

So they really can't be measured by a past precedent when this is territory that they themselves are setting.
 
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DavidTPPM said:
I mostly agree but I have a small problem. You can "enter a constellation" from many different directions, not just from the side of the furthest star, it depends on where he started.

If Urashiki entered from the southern edge he'd be coming from the 10k+ light years distance but if he entered from the eastern or northern edge he'd be significantly closer to earth while still being considered to have "just entered the constellation".

Is there any reason to believe he specifically entered from the direction of the furthest star? If not I'd say using either a median or (more accurately imo) an average distance between the stars in the constellation and earth instead would be the most accurate.
Click to expand...
This is a bit complicated. Centaurus has like 11 main stars in it (V766 not being one of them). And around 280 visible stars (even more if you consider stars under a certain magnitude). If you average out the distances of the main bright stars of Centaurus then it should be around 200 ly. However the issue is that V766 Centauri is not a main star. It is the farthest but not a main star. So if you take into account all the stars in the constellation then we likely have insufficient info to conclude a true mean. So the best we can do is take the closest and the farthest and avg them out. Which would be like 5870 ly. This is not a precise calc. But you get the idea.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
This is a bit complicated. Centaurus has like 11 main stars in it (V766 not being one of them). And around 280 visible stars (even more if you consider stars under a certain magnitude). If you average out the distances of the main bright stars of Centaurus then it should be around 200 ly. However the issue is that V766 Centauri is not a main star. It is the farthest but not a main star. So if you take into account all the stars in the constellation then we likely have insufficient info to conclude a true mean. So the best we can do is take the closest and the farthest and avg them out. Which would be like 5870 ly. This is not a precise calc. But you get the idea.
Click to expand...
I think the distance to be used is definitely up to discussion, I didn't exactly research the topic yet. All I'm really saying is that using the furthest or closest star would probably be inaccurate as there's a huge amount of possible entries (depending on interpretation up to like 280+) unless I'm missing something
 
DavidTPPM said:
I think the distance to be used is definitely up to discussion, I didn't exactly research the topic yet. All I'm really saying is that using the furthest or closest star would probably be inaccurate as there's a huge amount of possible entries (depending on interpretation up to like 280+) unless I'm missing something
Click to expand...
Yeah it would be inaccurate. I think the best we can do is take the mean of the furthest and closest star. Which is like half of the proposed speed. But the actual mean of all the stars would honestly be closer to the upper end (10K+ ly).
 
Wanted to tackle this at a later date but oh well might as well do this now, Lex helped.



image.png


In Boruto NNG Episode 8, Urashiki was stated to have entered the constellation of cancer, which means he reached from one of the furthest ends of the constellation (this doesn't necessarily have to be the furthest star), traversed a significant diameter of the cancer region and then reached Earth, for the time being the average distance from earth for each of the stars in Cancer should be a perfect (terrible) lowball figure to help validate a value, this way we don't have to worry about which angle they come from.

Avg Distance = 235.61 light-years
Timeframe = 1 year

Speed = D/T
= 235.61 ly / 1 yr
= 235.61c (Massively FTL)
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Wanted to tackle this at a later date but oh well might as well do this now, Lex helped.



image.png


In Boruto NNG Episode 8, Urashiki was stated to have entered the constellation of cancer, which means he reached from one of the furthest ends of the constellation (this doesn't necessarily have to be the furthest star), traversed a significant diameter of the cancer region and then reached Earth, for the time being the average distance from earth for each of the stars in Cancer should be a perfect (terrible) lowball figure to help validate a value, this way we don't have to worry about which angle they come from.

Avg Distance = 235.61 light-years
Timeframe = 1 year

Speed = D/T
= 235.61 ly / 1 yr
= 235.61c (Massively FTL)
Click to expand...
Goated reply.. I agree👌
 
Samlex1234 said:
Actually we have the specific constellation he entered we don’t need to use Centaurus

Click to expand...

Ghostimuscrime said:
Wanted to tackle this at a later date but oh well might as well do this now, Lex helped.



image.png


In Boruto NNG Episode 8, Urashiki was stated to have entered the constellation of cancer, which means he reached from one of the furthest ends of the constellation (this doesn't necessarily have to be the furthest star), traversed a significant diameter of the cancer region and then reached Earth, for the time being the average distance from earth for each of the stars in Cancer should be a perfect (terrible) lowball figure to help validate a value, this way we don't have to worry about which angle they come from.

Avg Distance = 235.61 light-years
Timeframe = 1 year

Speed = D/T
= 235.61 ly / 1 yr
= 235.61c (Massively FTL)
Click to expand...
I'd have to heavily disagree. That's something the dub took the liberty of adding themselves. In the sub, the original Japanese, cancer
was never mentioned anywhere.

The exact Japanese phrase was,
Suisei ga seiza ni haitta .
Meaning : “The comet has entered the constellation.”

I'm pretty sure cancer is "Kaniza" or something and that appears nowhere
 
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Found the Japanese transcript for that particular episode, the sentence in use says;
鬼宿にほうき星が入った。星辰のさだめ、収穫のときは近い。鍵となるのはやはり彼か。
Click to expand...
Reference here
which when translated reads;
“A comet has entered Kishuku (the Ghost Inn constellation or Cancer). The fate of the stars… the time of harvest is near. And as I thought, the key to it all is him.”

• 鬼宿 (Kishuku): literally “Demon’s Inn,” a star mansion/constellation in Chinese and Japanese astrology.
• ほうき星: comet.
• 星辰のさだめ: destiny/fate of the stars.
• 収穫のとき: the time of harvest, implying a coming event or reckoning

Of course, It can be further checked/confirmed by our translators just to be on the safe side.
 
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Lex did tell me the translation was valid after he’s looked into it and looking at Kaydee’s post and the anime scene (he literally starts out with the word Kishuku if you listen) the sources circle us back to Cancer (The Ghost / Demon’s Lodge’s western equivalent is Theta Cancri which is a subset of Cancer)

So the translation was correct, from now on let’s not immediately point fingers and accuse the dub team of making things up especially when the difference in experience & skill between you and them are enormous. Karo’s response didn’t even do the proper research and omitted the name of the Celestial Sector

Now it would seem like this feat would get upgraded with the new info since Theta Cancri is 432 LY away from us the feat would become 432c

KaydeeX said:
This averages the distance of stars within the Cancer constellation. Toneri was just entering the constellation so it’s preferable if you average the furthest stars in the constellation. Considering open clusters at the edge like M67 which is ~3000 light year away exists, you can take the median no?
Click to expand...
We don't have the data to justify a median and nor is median usable this given how star arrangements are random, a much further star than what Urashiki needed to have reached can end up as the 'middle star', as much as I'd like the MFTL+ numbers, accuracy comes first, Mean really is the ideal and least assumptive method for this.
 
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Ghostimuscrime said:
We don't have the data to justify a median and nor is median usable this given how star arrangements are random, a much further star than what Urashiki needed to have reached can end up as the 'middle star', as much as I'd like the MFTL+ numbers, accuracy comes first, Mean really is the ideal and least assumptive method for this.
Click to expand...
Random numbers do not refute the application of median, you can still arrange it hierarchically. And i’m using the distance for clusters within Cancer not individual stars. Though, i agree mean will be more accurate due to low sample size. The observable clusters within Cancer are Messier 44 (towards the edge) and Messier 67 (towards the centre) which are 610 and 2770 lys away respectively. Taking the mean of this gives us 1690 lys.
 
If Urashiki is heading for earth and has entered Cancer, then accounting for the closest stars makes no sense unfortunately. Imagine a sphere. If a line goes through the sphere and reaches your eye, then it has to have entered from the farther half of the sphere. If you know what I mean.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Lex did tell me the translation was valid after he’s looked into it and looking at Kaydee’s post and the anime scene (he literally starts out with the word Kishuku if you listen) the sources circle us back to Cancer (The Ghost / Demon’s Lodge’s western equivalent is Theta Cancri which is a subset of Cancer)

So the translation was correct, from now on let’s not immediately point fingers and accuse the dub team of making things up especially when the difference in experience & skill between you and them are enormous. Karo’s response didn’t even do the proper research and omitted the name of the Celestial Sector

Now it would seem like this feat would get upgraded with the new info since Theta Cancri is 432 LY away from us the feat would become 432c


We don't have the data to justify a median and nor is median usable this given how star arrangements are random, a much further star than what Urashiki needed to have reached can end up as the 'middle star', as much as I'd like the MFTL+ numbers, accuracy comes first, Mean really is the ideal and least assumptive method for this.
Click to expand...
I still think we should have a wiki translator check this. Coz I think we're treating it hyper literally.
 
KaydeeX said:
Random numbers do not refute the application of median, you can still arrange it hierarchically. And i’m using the distance for clusters within Cancer not individual stars. Though, i agree mean will be more accurate due to low sample size. The observable clusters within Cancer are Messier 44 (towards the edge) and Messier 67 (towards the centre) which are 610 and 2770 lys away respectively. Taking the mean of this gives us 1690 lys.
Click to expand...
Using the entire cancer as a basis for your mean between clusters when we have the mention of Urashiki entering the theta region within Cancer where no individual component is much farther away from each other in a meaningful manner kinda doesnt work and ends up inflating the value, I'd be fine with it with if the statement only mentioned cancer and nothing else.
karo_senpaii said:
I still think we should have a wiki translator check this. Coz I think we're treating it hyper literally.
Click to expand...
this doesn't require rocket science levels of translation skills, you can explicitly hear Toneri saying it as the very first word in that episode and arguing this is hyperbole or whatever is your burden, until you can justify that it's a useless comment. You're free to consult for professional input tho
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
this doesn't require rocket science levels of translation skills, you can explicitly hear Toneri saying it as the very first word in that episode and arguing this is hyperbole or whatever is your burden, until you can justify that it's a useless comment. You're free to consult for professional input tho
Click to expand...
Calling what someone says a useless comment is just uncalled for and leaves a sour taste. Do what you like
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I'm curious. Would the new approach need to be approved by CGMs before this thread passes? The math is the same tho. But the blog has to change.
Click to expand...
yeah the OP either creates another thread or just update this with another calc (when accepted)
 
400C seems reasonable. I should also mention that averaging out distances is far too arbitrary and doesn't really make much sense here. The sphere analogy is incorrect, as a secant line too can travel through and still reach your eyes and it wouldn't come from the "farthest point" of the sphere. For that it would have to connect with the center of the sphere as well. Yet it meets the requirement of having "entered" the sphere as well.
 
MeiouHades said:
400C seems reasonable. I should also mention that averaging out distances is far too arbitrary and doesn't really make much sense here. The sphere analogy is incorrect, as a secant line too can travel through and still reach your eyes and it wouldn't come from the "farthest point" of the sphere. For that it would have to connect with the center of the sphere as well. Yet it meets the requirement of having "entered" the sphere as well.
Click to expand...
My analogy didn't say farthest point at all. It said farther half of the sphere. A secant line would be included in that. With a tangent being the shortest possible distance.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
My analogy didn't say farthest point at all. It said farther half of the sphere. A secant line would be included in that. With a tangent being the shortest possible distance.
Click to expand...
Right, and my point is that not every secant halves a sphere or a circle, only those going through the center (which is an extra claim), so you can't use that imperfect analogy.
 
MeiouHades said:
Right, and my point is that not every secant halves a sphere or a circle, only those going through the center (which is an extra claim), so you can't use that imperfect analogy.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood my point. By half I mean how when you look straight at the moon you only see the area that's lit up. There's still the back half of the moon that we can't see. So if a ray has to enter the moon and reach our eyes, it'll need to enter the moon from behind and come out of it from the side we can see and then reach our eyes. The shortest distance being if the ray just goes tangent with the moon and reaches us. Does that make more sense?
 
HelloThere1089 said:
I'm curious. Would the new approach need to be approved by CGMs before this thread passes? The math is the same tho. But the blog has to change.
Click to expand...
really there is no such need for this, i don’t think CGMs are used for minor maths esp for a simple use of the speed = distance / time (you also gotta factor in they take ages to evaluate due to the low staff count AND they hate big 3 stuff, we can respect their time and bother with them stuff that actually requires their expertise like px calcs)

Since there hasn’t been any new arguments Test can just update his blog with newer stuff if he doesn’t wish to defend his old material and then have it get checked by Thread mods /admins here and that should be good to go
 
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"horny alien travels really slowly" 😭 good bait but not for me! disagree fra! jk, seems fine from a glance i will follow prob.
 
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