Versatility and Hax Tiering Attempts

[Mand21]

I know this is subjective as hell, but by about 2 am I got really bored and started making a tiering system for how versatile or haxxed a power is (so that maybe an entire character's versatility could get to be classed). What do you guys think of it? And how would you tier powers and abilities yourselves? Try your own tiering systems, I'd like to see what arises from this.

Mine:

F = Mostly cosmetic, combat useless powers

ex: acupuncture, longevity, multiple personalities, blessed


E = Haxless and yet low destructive powers which grant small advantages, or not a strength on their own

ex: accelerated development, adhesivity, nzt-like body control, cyborgization, pressure points, martial arts, stealth mastery, breath attack, enhanced senses (low key, like heat vision), extrasensory perception, forcefield creation, type 1 immortality, power bestowal, supernatural luck (weak&low key)


D = Powers which don't add that much to versatility unless very well used, haxless

ex: summoning, information analysis, afterimage creation, chain manipulation, danmaku, dimensional storage, dream manipulation, energy projection, aura, heat vision, invisibility, shapeshifting, size difference or changing, fire manipulation, shadow/darkness manipulation, metal manipulation, sand manipulation, thread manipulation, blood manipulation, bone manipulation, plant manipulation, chi manipulation (dbz level), density manipulation, duplication, enhanced senses (byakugan-level), homing attack, telekinesis, sound manipulation, Regenerationn (low types)


C = High versatile haxless powers or minor hax

ex: transformation, stat amping, reactive power level, ice manipulation, water manipulation, aura (hxh level), body control (full fledged autobiokinesis), fear inducement, light manipulation, electricity manipulation, air manipulation (full fledged), poison manipulation, cloth manipulation, corrosion inducement, disease manipulation, transmutation, gravity manipulation, teleportation, portal creation, status effect inducement, Regenerationn (mid types), genius intelligence


B = Extremely versatile or reasonable hax

ex: electromagnetism manipulation, space manipulation, matter manipulation, intangibility, invulnerability (to physical attacks only), life manipulation, death manipulation, one-hit-kill, illusion creation (fully explored), perception manipulation, paralysis inducement, pocket reality manipulation, durability negation, resistance negation, adaptation, sealing, soul manipulation, supernatural luck, reactive evolution, Regenerationn (high types), power nullification, power modification, existence erasure


A = Highly versatile and OP, objectively broken

ex: invulnerability (full), energy manipulation (all physical energies), probability manipulation, quantum manipulation, time manipulation, physics manipulation, Regenerationn (godly types), omnipresence, power creation, unlimited mind manipulation, vector manipulation


S = nigh-omnipotents

ex: probability manipulation (absolute), reality warping, law manipulation, logic manipulation, omniscience, conceptual manipulation, information manipulation (absolute)

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I definitely think that this is really good!

 

[Mand21]

Oh, you just agreed? :v Thought you'd have your own ideas on a tier list

 

[Mand21]

Darn, I could swear this would get at least some people to comment ><

 

[Jasonsith]

Kenshiro: Useless acupuncture (poke at Jotaro and we have Death Battle Season 5 Episode 3)

To be frank, tiering on the level of hax should be useful. Like all Jojo characters have some tiering of their hax and should be applied for all characters already but different level of hax are having different destructive powers. Like what I learn to keep myself sober versus what Ken did to make Jo explode. What different characters can do with one hax are different and should be tiered. No ideas on how to "equally" tier all hax.

IMHO speed should be tiered too.

 

[Mand21]

Speed is already tiered, lol. We have the Speed page.

But yeah, it's likely I should put different anime abilities in tiers, but how would I organize them? I think Kumagawa Misogi's All Fiction is a Tier A ability, meanwhile Beerus's Hakai is just Tier B and if Manga Hakai is really just pulverization then it's likely also Tier B but barely.

Giorno Giovanna's GER is obviously Tier A, Jotaro's time stop is like a mid to high end Tier B... But what else can we categorize here? It would be interesting to have a more comprehensive tier list.

 

[Jasonsith]

Will we have categories to bracket hax and speed? We have speeds tiered but not bracketed into categories

 

[Mand21]

What do you mean, categories? And this is a fun and games thread.

 

[Mand21]

So, just in case and to bump this a little, I'll make a cooler version of my tiering system, this time turning the focus towards characters. A character's versatility can be higher than that of one of their abilities, and an ability's tier can be nerfed if the ability is nerfed (time stop is much weaker than free form time manipulation).

Versatility Tiering System v0.4

Bottom Tier F — Characters of the versatility of normal humans who are unable to fight and powers which can nothing to a fight whatsoever.

Character Examples: Sakurajima Mai (Seishun Buta) and Erina Joestar (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure).

Ability Examples: Changing one's haircolor, acupuncture and longevity.

Low Tier E — Characters of the versatility of someone who is witty but not a fighter, or one who knows the basics of fighting or a master of a useless martial art, that is, way better than an untrained fighter, but not by any means a world champion or significantly close to that level. Also one with a power that isn't a notable strength on its own, but can influence on a fight.

Character Examples: Saitama (OPM), any magician with only few very basic spells like fireballs.

Ability Examples: Spell-like abilities restricted to one way of using them, adhesivity, control of the brain's involuntary parts, stealth mastery, martial arts, pressure points, heat vision, life detection and forcefield creation.

Mid-low Tier D — Characters of the versatility of a fighting champion, or someone with cliché use of a simple power which doesn't become strong without very good use, like manipulating one element, or very minor hax.

Character Examples: Jonathan Joestar, All Might and Inaho Kaizuka.

Ability Examples: Afterimage creation, elemental manipulation, danmaku, chain/thread manipulation, ki usage, Byakugan, basic Genjutsu, Regenerationn (Low~High-low) and telekinesis.

Mid Tier C — Characters of high versatility, such as those with significant amplitude of supernatural possibilities or mild hax.

Character Examples: Composite Human, Joseph Joestar, Gon Freecs and Scar (FMAB, end of series).

Ability Examples: Stat amping, fear inducement, poison/disease manipulation, well-used elemental powers, advanced genjutsu, teleportation/portal creation, Regenerationn (mid types) and genius intelligence.

Mid-high Tier B — Characters with a very high versatility or significant but medium hax.

Character Examples: Accelerator (Index), Kujo Jotaro, Voldemort, Meruem (post-rose), All For One and Goku (End of Super manga).

Ability Examples: Electromagnetism manipulation, space manipulation, matter manipulation, death manipulation, power nullification, existence erasure, reactive evolution, Regenerationn (high types) and extremely well used versions of abilities which are Tier D when cliché.

High Tier A — Characters with an extremely high versatility and/or powerful hax, objectively overpowered but not on a "free reality warper" level. They could be said to have a tiny portion of what omnipotence entails.

Character Examples: Giorno Giovanna w/ GER, Kumagawa Misogi and Alluka Zoldyck, as well as the less versatile characters in "Strongest Character for Every Tier" threads.

Ability Examples: Vector manipulation (unrestricted), invulnerability, matter and energy manipulation, time manipulation (unrestricted), physics manipulation, omnipresence and Regenerationn (godly types) and extremely buffed up and well used versions of powers which are Tier D when cliché.

Top Tier S — Characters who can be said to have a significant portion of omnipotence.

Character Examples: Othinus (Toaru), Amari (Log.in) and many of the lower tiered characters in "Strongest Character for Every Tier" threads.

Ability Examples: Reality warping, logic manipulation, information manipulation (unrestricted), conceptual manipulation (unrestricted), law manipulation and omniscience.

God Tier Z — Characters who can be said to really approach omnipotence, or would have it if it were a thing in this wiki.

Character Examples: Pretty much all Tier 0 characters, plus some of the strongest characters from "Strongest Character for Every Tier" threads.

Ability Examples: Omnilock and such packages.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Are OCs allowed?

Because, I think Chahan might be in tier B because even though he right now is only as strong as Ikaruga he does have an number of different nen based haxes and attacks. Some of the include nen menace, an attack to the receiver's neurons that can disrupt the receiver from using nen and paralyze them from using the limb in question, although he created the Hissatsu: Ren☆Sei Biggu Wēbu/Lotus☆Star Big Wave because Nen Menace is only really effective if contact is made to the head or heart, both spots that are hard to get at because shinobi attempt to avoid getting attacked at those locations. Lotus☆Star Big Wave though is meant to be done through contact to the spine, other wise the receiver will get immense pain possibly permanent paralysis if not treated. And to add insult to injury the attack practically incapacitates and even can kill the receiver, especially if not treated. Also even if the receiver is treat there is the possiblity that they would lose the ability of nen usage.

He also created Torate which are electric nen claws for when he gets in sticky situations in which he will attempt to slash at is oppenent's face, and to also add insult to injury the receiver would get some voltage from the attack which can disorient their nervous system.

Now Chahan knows how dangerous his bare handed abilities, and because he isn't exactly one for killing he placed the restriction that for if he may or may not use his bare attacks to kill, "Only those who need to be killed do so." Which really is up for interpretation.

His main weapon is the kusari gama which on one side he has a really heavy spike over a weighted ball, in which we come to Chahan's other restriction, which is that "the spike will go to any area but the head." And that restriction can kinda get scary because as long as it's not the head and the user can use it properly, they can definitely impale you through the heart and can also take out any vital organs. There is more I can say but I'll leave it here for now.

Although where would Kurapika be? Because Chahan is basically Kurapika and Killua in a fusion based on ability.

Galactus for Tier A

 

[Mand21]

They definitely are, I'm using this to analyse mine and some of my friends's. I have one OC on rank D, one on rank A, several on rank C and a few on B.

I think Kurapika is like a low end B when fighting Phantom Troupe members, while Killua is a higher end of C. Indeed fusing both gets a solid B.

That OC I told you, Charles, the metal mymetist who is the most dangerous Outlier alive in my verse, is a high end B, though his strategies, tatics and gimmicks can take out people from A or even S if they are sufficiently dumber and/or less experienced than him. My main character in RPs, Anna Abramovna Bystrova, is a low end of B who can take out A-ranks, but would only be able to take out an S-rank if they really aren't very smart. Taking out a Z-rank is obviously nigh-impossible for anyone below S-rank.

A friend of mine made an OC who starts at D-rank and goes all the way to Z-rank. Its power? Illusion creation, but the power system my friend uses for that ("Psyche Energy", no, not psychic energy like from telekinesis, literally the energy of the psyche like in Jung's libido) is so hyperversatile it opens up the possibility of B-rank illusionists just by exploring it appropriately, and then there's the "illusion trinity" which are three types of illusions that are a notch above the rest and so hard to use that they may overload your body with the excess of power. They're the "Truly Real Illusions" (literal RW through illusions, though it's limited in many ways if you have a normal, human amount of psyche energy), the "Perfect Illusions" (inescapable illusions which because illusionists in RPs I frequent have made a vow to never use absolutes, are actually inescapable not because of some "this illusion cannot be evaded owo" assertion but because the very idea of escaping them does not make sense, which he managed to do with his "The Paradoxal Night" technique which uses real illusions in conjunction with psychological and field illusions to create an illusion that kinda isn't escaped even if it is) and the "Abstract Illusions" (the possibility to illude concepts themselves, up to the point where metaphysics can be manipulated by an illusionist with a great enough intellect), not to mention that "there is no such thing as immunity to illusions" (arguments are made so that the idea of being truly invulnerable to illusions doesn't make sense unless you're either completely irrational and unable to perceive stuff, or fully omniscient to begin with and don't need perception, and even then...). That OC basically began as a normal illusionist who lost his girlfriend and vowed to ressurrect her, gathering more and more power and knowledge in order to one day bring her back, but he was never able to. When he finally got that power, it didn't make sense because he was barely human anymore, his body had been destroyed by the power he had obtained and he lived within the Collective Subconsciousness of humanity, being sort of undead. He ultimately fools the world to become human again, abandoning all of his power and leaving some remainders of it to bless the universe and protect it, and then kills himself.

 

[Mand21]

Yeah, I didn't expect this to be that ignored.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It's okay

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Which tier would she be in?

 

[Andykhang]

I don't think hax should be ranked just based on combat alone. Lot of hax are just plain better in other job, and some are antithesis to the idea of fighting, such as creating a non-aggression zone. Instead you could rank them based on the amount of freedom it give the user. Here's the rough idea.

Extremely Limited: Hax that can only work with extreme limited condition. Ex: Making water by shedding blood of a sheep, being able to sleep 4 hours a day by sleeping 12 hours a day before, being super smart by removing limb, etc...

Limited: Hax that only work in limited condition, or capacity. Ex: Making people slightly smarter, Enhance people by +1 stat, making fire by having matches.

Conditional: Hax that work with reasonable condition. Ex: Making gen from mud, disguise yourself with dye, curse people with bad luck on rainy day, or sacrificing precious stuff.

Normal: Hax that doesn't need condition, or it can merely be done with hard work, within a given setting. Ex: Martial Art, using magic, Enhance physical characteristics, etc...

Gifted: Hax that you naturally got, through a special condition you Naturally have within yourself. Ex: Having wings, Genius Intellect, Mutant, Quirk, etc...

Super: Hax that is above Gifted, that give you major advantages in most cases. Ex: Supernatural Physical Characteristic, Elemental Manipulation, Psychokinesis, etc...

Broken: Hax that's above Super, usually very versatile, and very exploitable with too many application to boot. Ex: Vector Manipulation, Energy-Matter conversion, Real Illusion, etc...

Law: Hax that's above Broken, mess with the fundamentals rule of the verse itself, to give extremely unfair advantage. Ex: Boundary Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Concept Manipulation, etc...

Omni: Omnipotent, Omnipresence, Omniscience, etc... Self-explanatory

 

[Mand21]

I think there's a huge gap between "Super" and "Broken" there, as many superpowers have a much more intermediate level of versatility and hax and few characters on this wiki are on the lower ranks, the vast majority lying in Conditional and above. Also, your system goes from how limited a hax is in terms of usage to how powerful it is. Besides, "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" are merely a term for how high your statistics are, and this doesn't change versatility all that much in many cases. Also, isn't a no-aggression zone kinda broken in fights due to instantly stalemating them? But you do have a point, I think we should discuss this a little more to refine the tier lists. owo

Which tier would she be in?

From what I'm reading, "Reality Warping" is a nice word to get you an almost immediate S-tier on my list, but her power seems rather limited. It will depend on how skilled at it she is and if she can't actually do a lot with her power due to its restraints to doubling probability, she'd be A-tier. But if she can create and destroy universes and do pretty much whatever she wants with them, she should have a neat S-tier as such an advanced probability manipulation that reaches the level of reality warping is Tier S.

Also, you kinda wrote her intellect wrong. Knowing every species that has or could ever exist is an instant Extraordinary Genius, no way she's just "gifted". Not to mention we classify people as geniuses even if they're only that to one area. Being a genius in everything means you're like Composite Human.

 

[Eva132]

This thread i cool. Godzilla (Composite) in which level would be?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I made some changes.

 

[Andykhang]

@Mand21 Like I said, this is a pretty rough list, and I just list whatever I have in my mind at the times. Also though, non-aggression zone is still antithesis to fight, as it also doesn't give you any chance to fight either. The rest is true though

 

[Jasonsith]

Now I wonder if this would be applied here solely because it would largely increase the workload of the admins here.

Given they are unwilling or too busy to even tag speed into categories for characters (like a 9-B character with transonic reactions will have categories under tier 9-B and transonic instead of just tier 9) even though we have all characters' sub-tier and speed tiered.

 

[Mand21]

Nah, it's just a fun categorization thingie. XD At most, you could use it for match-making as not to put characters against someone wiyh a differwnce of two tiers or more unless there is a large difference on another statistic.

Like, 3 tiers is a stomp, 2 tiers is almost always a decisive win and with 1 tier there is competition with a large advantage to the more versatile fighter. Same tier and they're equally matched, 4 tier and it's a joke battle unless there's serious shit going on.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

It just works.
I made some changes to her power-set, how dose she fair now?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Would Giorno Giovanna be a B up there?

 

[Mand21]

This thread i cool. Godzilla (Composite) in which level would be?

That being seems relatively on A-tier, dude. o-o

Hagane no Saiyajin"]
Would Giorno Giovanna be a B up there?

Giorno Giovanna without GER is just a C, I think.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

>acupuncture useless

Jin Mo-Ri wants to know your location.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Reactive Evolution is based on taking a form that resists the thing.

 

[Mand21]

Meh, seems to be at the top of C-tier. :v Nerf her down to 9-B and Composite Human could take her down.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Where would an 8-A be if she is able to change the animation style just for s**ts and giddles.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Meh, seems to be at the top of C-tier. :v Nerf her down to 9-B and Composite Human could take her down.

Bare it mind that she has access to all the abilities of this, and then some.

 

[Mand21]

Bare it mind that she has access to all the abilities of this, and then some.

But she can never access it at once, can she? Take all the infinite possible forms she can take in a perfect composite. Unless she just doesn't give a damn about any limitations to her own power, attempting it would overload her to such a degree she would die without reaching a trillionth of completion.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

No, but she can come close, as she can ignore gravity if she wants to.

 

[Mand21]

No, but she can come close, as she can ignore gravity if she wants to.

Huh. Composite Existence seems like an A-tier, and a relatively high one at that. She can probably get to B-tier or a lower end of A-tier by approaching that power.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Where would an 8-A be if she is able to change the animation style just for s**ts and giddles.

 

[Mand21]

Animation style? Like, fourth wall breaking, but merely cosmetic stuff? Seems like an F-tier power.

 

[Mand21]

Since OC pages from the fc-oc wiki are also being looked at, what do you people think of this one, my main? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mand21/Anna_Abramovna_Bystrova

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

She appears to be rather similar to Shigeo Kageyama who could go for a C or B

 

[Mand21]

She has a page, now.

What do you mean, in terms of similarities? OwO Although Shigeo does indeed seem to have the power to face her head on and not die easily. Problem is she can't be ragdolled and has too great air mobility to be kept at bay through danmaku.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

She's done!

 

[SauceSorcery]

Wow, the wiki ate my reply... Here's a short and modified version of what I was writing.

I tried my own hand at making a hax tiering system years before joining the wiki in order to rank the placement of powers and abilities in my fantasy setting. They're based on their degree of transcendence over mortal limitations and how close they come to operating on a level of true platonic concepts. To put it simply, killing a human is easier than killing a regenerating ghost, so the latter inherently requires a higher tier of abilities to be put down.

The first tier consists of purely physical, non-magical abilities such as punches and kicks.

The second tier consists of abilities that still have purely tangible effects and aren't directly applied to the opponent, such as all forms of elemental magic, thread manipulation and such, but not matter manipulation, creation or teleportation. Basically these abilities should be able to kill generic humans easily.

The third tier consists of abilities that can be directly applied to the opponent and also possess an intangible, more conceptual effect. Including inducing death, mind hax, inducing a paralysis that works on ghosts, polymorphing, petrification, soul manipulation. Things that can put down tough forms of undead, ghosts, elementals, constructs, beings with strong regen and beings of living energy.

The fourth tier consists of abilities that manipulate concepts that are experienced, broad and identifiable, common limitations to mortal life. Including space, time and reality, lending itself to reality warpers, but not reality creators... My setting may have a bias against this though, as resistance to reality warping is common. Then again, low enough forms of reality warping aren't that OP. You can beat a time dilating human with lesser tiers of hax, while full on time/space manipulation often has a considerable amount of overlooked potency.

The fifth tier consists of abilities that are effectively functions of logic themselves and thus, they can be infinitely scaled up without losing logical sense. This includes nullifying, negation, bypassing, sealing, banishing, rewriting, erasure and suspending something non-temporally. These abilities can have analogues at all levels and are often used to make abilities that don't normally work on opponents, start working again, ex: Fire manipulation with a high level of erasure infused into it.

The next tiers are kinda vague, hard to explain and I don't really remember them too well. The sixth tier is about countering the previous tier of hax or applying hax that inherently bundles up multiples of the previous hax, since the previous tier can already be infinitely scaled up, including stuff like power reflection, creating a stronger version of your opponent, being able to transcend the attack being thrown at you (basically really good adaption). The seventh tier is finally about beings who can create all of the laws to reality including logic and possibility itself. The eigth tier consists of beings that transcend everything, including all of the previous and more, basically where the outerversals are at alongside true platonic concepts. And the ninth tier is full on omnipotence where if you beat it, you simply proved that your foe was not ninth tier.

Lets just say. I have both made and played with a lot of really haxed characters in roleplays. Though generally, I prefer swinging lower towards the first two tiers, unless the thing I'm aiming to do is to annoy the heck out of a power player.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Nice. One power that I thought of would be the power to ignore hierarchy, meaning that they can fight higher-dimensional creatures, but lower-dimensional creatures can fight them.

If you take too long, then it stops you from commenting.