Why doesn't Superman have immeasurable speed?

[MilesTheMorales1]

My opinion hasn't changed on this, we shouldn't just make someone Immeasurable for running back in time. Although I would like to hear DontTalkDT's thoughts on this. This could affect other time travelling feats as well.

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

It seems like you have more of a grievence behind the speed page's explanation of immeasurable speed than any of my arguments here. The page describes the criteria as follows:

<bt />Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied."

As you can see, Superman's speed feat completely falls in line with this official definition. I strongly encourage you to make a separate CRT that combats this if you disagree, but for this thread I think we should drop it, since these concerns don't hold bearing as of now.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

So should we use this after all then?
Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Let's see what others have to say about it.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

If we decide to rate the feat as Immeasurable, we should no longer use FTL as Qawsedf234 has said.

I have no issue with the definition of Immeasurable speed, it's just that for time travel it's a special case, especially when authors (accurately) say that FTL is enough to time travel. Heck I've seen some shows say that you can time travel via running at Mach 2 (which also raises a good question about whether we should use more accurate values we calculated or the bullshit numbers the authors give us).

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

If we decide to rate the feat as Immeasurable, we should no longer use FTL as Qawsedf234 has said.

I'm fine with either option, but I'll wait for others to weigh in on this.

I have no issue with the definition of Immeasurable speed, it's just that for time travel it's a special case, especially when authors (accurately) say that FTL is enough to time travel. Heck I've seen some shows say that you can time travel via running at Mach 2 (which also raises a good question about whether we should use more accurate values we calculated or the bullshit numbers the authors give us).

I'm not an authority figure on that sort of thing, so I couldn't answer that. It's definitely a good question, so I think that's also something that should be addressed in another CRT, if you're willing to make one.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's wait for DontTalkDT then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As a note this is what the speed page has on FTL time travel feats

Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, travelling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case.

So even if we don't go for Immeasurable, we need to divide the speeds up anyways.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That is what I thought. We should preferably go with what I suggested earlier then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Time travel needs to be extremely casual in order for it to be Immeasurable. And it's more like they can move anywhere and any-when in an instant is true Immeasurable speed. Simply flying laps around the earth faster than the Earth rotates and traveling back in time over perceived time, is simply generate time travel as an ability and not speed on that level. It's not like Superman can travel through time just from casually walking or by not even moving by 3-D standards but just traveling through time like a spatial dimension.

 

[AKM sama]

See this is exactly why I wanted to remove the whole shtick of "Immeasurable speed by flying/running through time", and instead just assign them the ability of Time Travel. Because many times fiction portrays it as only requiring SoL/FTL speeds. We even make a note of this:

"However, travelling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case."

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we keep it as a separate statistic for Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis) and Superman (Pre-Crisis).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think AKM Sama is saying that those two should simply be Massively FTL+ with Time Travel listed as an ability for them rather than just Immeasurable travel speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that AKM sama has a point.

 

[Antvasima]

We preferably need more staff input before changing our standards though.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, it should preferably happen in the new forum. For now, I think in this case we should only list the calculated speed in the speed section, and simply add Time Travel in his abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That should probably be fine.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

I'm satisfied with this.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Time travel needs to be extremely casual in order for it to be Immeasurable. And it's more like they can move anywhere and any-when in an instant is true Immeasurable speed. Simply flying laps around the earth faster than the Earth rotates and traveling back in time over perceived time, is simply generate time travel as an ability and not speed on that level. It's not like Superman can travel through time just from casually walking or by not even moving by 3-D standards but just traveling through time like a spatial dimension.

Thanks for this explanation, it makes things a lot easier to grasp.

One thing I'm confused about is this "in an instant" thing. Do you mean this in the literal sense? Whereas time = 0?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Technically, time would be "Undefined" for Immeasurable speed characters. The amount of time it takes for an Immeasurable speed character do make a reaction would technically be a negative number. So "Faster than instantly" actually would be more literal.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I think AKM Sama is saying that those two should simply be Massively FTL+ with Time Travel listed as an ability for them rather than just Immeasurable travel speed.

Why MFTL+? Anyway I agree with AKM sama. Heck I've watched shows that say Mach 2 is enough to time travel.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Massively FTL+ for the Pre-Cirsis characters, not for Christopher Reeve's Superman. He's obviously much lower than that.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Technically, time would be "Undefined" for Immeasurable speed characters. The amount of time it takes for an Immeasurable speed character do make a reaction would technically be a negative number. So "Faster than instantly" actually would be more literal.

Ah, got it. I figured the number would have to be negative, so that's why I was confused about the instantaneality of the previous description. Thanks again for clarifying!

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah, it should preferably happen in the new forum. For now, I think in this case we should only list the calculated speed in the speed section, and simply add Time Travel in his abilities.

So should we do this then?

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, I checked the profile and it's fine. I'll close this.