Yor Briar vs The Helltaker

[Peppersalt43]

ALTERNATE TITLE: YEAH, DEMON GIRLS ARE COOL AND ALL BUT WHAT ABOUT MILFS?​

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I would have done Loid vs Judgement since they're both Supersonic+ and Judgement is really vulnerable to even basic Social Influencing which Loid being a former womanizer should be able to do. Only problem is, Loid is slightly slower and Judgement's attacks are mind-activated so that's a damn shame. Oh well, I can still do this

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Lucifer approached the couch, having awakened from a good night sleep for some breakfast. She instead found Azazel and the Helltaker there watching Judgement's current battle in the Vatican. Surprisingly it was still broadcasting meaning she had survived all this time...

"So, how's she doing?" Lucy asked, leaning over the back of the couch.
"Oh the forces of good have been defeated. Now the demons are turning on each other as they always do. She's fighting this Nacht Faust guy now" the angel replied.

"Say if you're here, who's cooking at the kitchen?" Lucifer asked, pointing at the kitchen, the lights turned on.
"So, is this how you make a pancake?" Yor asked, exiting the kitchen with a flaming pan, the bottom part melted off.

"She came here this morning. One of those portals opened up. She-" The Helltaker explained before being cut off.
"Kill her" Lucy interrupted, enraged by the defacing of her favorite dish.

"Finally, this I can do!" the thorn princess said, unsheathing a pair of blades hidden in her clothes

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• Speed equalized
• Place located in: Martin House

• Starting Range: 10 Meters
• Win via anything!!
• Good Mother : 0
• Good Spouse : 7
• Incon : 0

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VS

 

[Dinamic8000]

Following

 

[ElajRuengies]

In light of recent developments in the Spy Family CRT- this match is on hold

 

[Peppersalt43]

In light of recent developments in the Spy Family CRT- this match is on hold

The CRT went through, we can continue this normally now

 

[LaserPrecision]

Unless The Helltaker as a good AP advantage, I think he'll lose from what I've seen.

Yor's arguments seem to mostly consist of skill + poison. While admittedly, I don't think skill is always that important, if their AP's are close, it does play a lot more of a role considering her opponent has little fighting experience. Yor only needs to hit him with Poison and then wait for it to take affect.

If Helltaker had a sizeable AP advantage (Say, 4x and above), then I'd have given it to The Helltaker since a few hits alone would allow him to defeat Yor. And since he has Analytical Prediction of his own that allows him to predict and thus evade danmaku-like attacks around 50x faster than himself. So he'd actually be pretty damn hard to tag. However, in a match where he barely has an AP advantage, he can only evade for so long before he gets tagged inevitably. Which will be bad since Yor's poison would be lethal for him. Whereas if he had a sizeable AP advantage, he wouldn't need to worry about the match dragging on and "inevitably getting hit" as the fight would last a far shorter duration.

Because their AP is so close, I think I'll have to side with Yor on this one. If it were any of the other character's from Helltaker, I'd confidently say things would end very differently (Both due to upscaling and hax).

 

[Dinamic8000]

Yor FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

Unless The Helltaker as a good AP advantage, I think he'll lose from what I've seen.

So hey, Yor got nerfed down to 0.004 tons against Helltaker's 0.023 tons... Around 5x so not no-selling yet but that's a change

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Suprised that people knows about Faith existance

Yeah, I blame @EliminatorVenom for that. Now I've already watched the full playthroughs and made an entire tourney centered around the verse

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyway, bump

 

[LaserPrecision]

If Helltaker had a sizeable AP advantage (Say, 4x and above), then I'd have given it to The Helltaker since a few hits alone would allow him to defeat Yor.

Well given I said this and he now has a 5x AP advantage, I'd have to give it to Helltaker. It'd only take a few hits to knock her unconscious bare minimum. He'd likely also be too hard to tag in the same amount of time it'd take him to easily knock her out given his analytical prediction which allows him to dodge borderline danmaku projectiles 50x faster than himself.

 

[Doggo]

Well given I said this and he now has a 5x AP advantage, I'd have to give it to Helltaker. It'd only take a few hits to knock her unconscious bare minimum. He'd likely also be too hard to tag in the same amount of time it'd take him to easily knock her out given his analytical prediction which allows him to dodge borderline danmaku projectiles 50x faster than himself.

eh she can also one shot via poison

 

[Peppersalt43]

eh she can also one shot via poison

Yor's arguments seem to mostly consist of skill + poison. While admittedly, I don't think skill is always that important, if their AP's are close, it does play a lot more of a role considering her opponent has little fighting experience. Yor only needs to hit him with Poison and then wait for it to take affect.

@LaserPrecision already took that into consideration

 

[Doggo]

does helltaker have anything against yor steath(which is good enough that not even loid could sense her despite having enhance senses) and aura?

 

[Peppersalt43]

does helltaker have anything against yor steath(which is good enough that not even loid could sense her despite having enhance senses) and aura?

They start in each others' line of sight

 

[Doggo]

They start in each others' line of sight

And? The figth takes place on a house, a convient place filled with hiding spots

also her aura

 

[LaserPrecision]

And? The figth takes place on a house, a convient place filled with hiding spots

also her aura

I don't recall if Yor hides when trying to assassinate someone in canon. I think once she's confronted them, she attempts assassinating them.

 

[Doggo]

I don't recall if Yor hides when trying to assassinate someone in canon. I think once she's confronted them, she attempts assassinating them.

If she realizes she's outclassed physically, she will try to play it smart and use stealth

 

[LaserPrecision]

If she realizes she's outclassed physically, she will try to play it smart and use stealth

Will she? Is there a showing of this? From what I've seen on her profile (Won't speak off of what I've read since I'm only on volume 3), even when she was jumped and had to run a gauntlet of the worlds best fighters and she was injured, she still opted for fighting.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean, Yor the herself is also really good at dodging since she severely upscale above Fiona and is comparable to Loid, both characters who can do shit like this while playing tennis, and she have also her own feats showing that indeed she is quite acrobatic and able to dodge things that would kill her, and her dodging ability is even greater when considering her senses and instinctive action, so hitting her will be extremely hard.

Regarding the AP advantage is true that Helltaker have a considerably advantage, but that don't mean at all that Yor can't hurt hit since her main weapon are sharps stilettos, with poison able to kill an elephant, that she use in a really lethal way that go directly for vital points, and even without her weapons she have her pressure points to either kill or incapacitate, so she is more than perfectly capable of taking down Helltaker despite the AP gap with little problem.

She also have her fear hax that can either make the Helltaker give up everything and run away, or that can affect the enemy body causing a negative effect in their combat ability, so this would greatly affect Helltaker ability to face her.

And there more arguments to make for Yor (her general skill, stealth, marksmanship, after images, etc), so considering everything I'm voting for Yor quite confidently.

 

[Peppersalt43]

She also have her fear hax that can either make the Helltaker give up everything and run away, or that can affect the enemy body causing a negative effect in their combat ability, so this would greatly affect Helltaker ability to face her.

Just in case, is it layered? Because he does have Supernatural Willpower

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just in case, is it layered? Because he does have Supernatural Willpower

Not sure since I still don't reach the manga arcs were Yor is the star, though certainly his will should help him to resist the fear hax to some extent but not sure to what extent (like not sure if he would be able to resist the effects on the body).

 

[Doggo]

I think yor has more chances here tbh, Helltaker only advantage is ap while Yor has a lot more going for her

 

[Doggo]

Will she? Is there a showing of this? From what I've seen on her profile (Won't speak off of what I've read since I'm only on volume 3), even when she was jumped and had to run a gauntlet of the worlds best fighters and she was injured, she still opted for fighting.

It's not like those same fighters physically outclassed on the same level Helltaker does, Yor is a skilled fighter and will know the rigth thing to do to win the figth

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yeah the whole AP and Analytical Prediction advantage is nice.

It's just that Yor still has the poison and can technically overwhelm him. I will say that Yor doesn't really take advantage of her stealth that much tho

 

[Doggo]

Yeah the whole AP and Analytical Prediction advantage is nice.

It's just that Yor still has the poison and can technically overwhelm him. I will say that Yor doesn't really take advantage of her stealth that much tho

I will accept the stealth part, but her superior skill and poison kinda nets her the win

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I will accept the stealth part, but her superior skill and poison kinda nets her the win

Oh easily. That was my only issue

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I think yor has more chances here tbh, Helltaker only advantage is ap while Yor has a lot more going for her

Well, not the only since the Analytical Prediction is nice and help, but yeah she have more things that him.

I will say that Yor doesn't really take advantage of her stealth that much tho

Well, she certainly don't seem to abuse it but she seem to be able to use it in a nice combat way, (like this one where not only the surroundings but the enemy itself also didn't noticed the small attack), and since she was trained to be stealth is certainly an option that she can use if needed, though at the end this is more a secondary argument and the main points are those I mentioned previously

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mean, Yor the herself is also really good at dodging since she severely upscale above Fiona and is comparable to Loid, both characters who can do shit like this while playing tennis, and she have also her own feats showing that indeed she is quite acrobatic and able to dodge things that would kill her, and her dodging ability is even greater when considering her senses and instinctive action, so hitting her will be extremely hard.

I'd argue hitting the Helltaker would prove more difficult in physical confrontations (Or even ranged at that). His Analytical prediction allowed him to dodge danmaku chains that are all 50x faster than him without being hit a single time while constantly moving on a conveyor belt WITH spikes of deaths on end simultaneously.

So in just a face to face battle? He's not likely to get tagged anytime soon if danmaku projectiles 50x faster than him couldn't even with him having to frequently reposition himself on a moving track with death spikes on each side of him. However, Yor definitely is more acrobatic. I just think Helltaker is more likely to land a blow first than her due to his crazy analytical prediction.

Regarding the AP advantage is true that Helltaker have a considerably advantage, but that don't mean at all that Yor can't hurt hit since her main weapon are sharps stilettos, with poison able to kill an elephant, that she use in a really lethal way that go directly for vital points, and even without her weapons she have her pressure points to either kill or incapacitate, so she is more than perfectly capable of taking down Helltaker despite the AP gap with little problem.

I've acknowledged the poison. The pressure points and stilettos are effectively useless here too due to his analytical prediction. Until he tires anyway, which could be a while.

She also have her fear hax that can either make the Helltaker give up everything and run away, or that can affect the enemy body causing a negative effect in their combat ability, so this would greatly affect Helltaker ability to face her.

The first instance seems limited. Only the dog ran away, the guy stayed, but had to leave due to others closing in. The second instance doesn't even seem like fear manipulation, but him getting scared of her getting up close. Especially with her reputation he SHOULD be afraid. Helltaker tho? Doesn't know her and is pretty brave himself. Doesn't seem afraid to put his life on the line consistently. Heck, he's even fine with living a painful life.

Def sticking with Helltaker

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I'd argue hitting the Helltaker would prove more difficult in physical confrontations (Or even ranged at that). His Analytical prediction allowed him to dodge danmaku chains that are all 50x faster than him without being hit a single time while constantly moving on a conveyor belt WITH spikes of deaths on end simultaneously.

You know that that was specifically a no hit run in which the player had to practice a lot previously and learn the pattern before be able to do that, right? Literally in any game players can do no-hit runs with enough practice, that don't mean that canonically speaking the characters are never hit unless specified. The analytical prediction help in the case he can see the projectile yeah, but certainly don't mean that in a normal run the average player is never hit.

There is also the fact that they were some big chains almost the size of his body which are pretty hard to not see, so against small projectiles and attacks hard to see (or that he directly can't) he isn't going to be able to use his analytical prediction the same way, and those are things that Yor certainly do in combat.

I've acknowledged the poison. The pressure points and stilettos are effectively useless here too due to his analytical prediction. Until he tires anyway, which could be a while.

He don't even have the crazy mobility needed to dodge all the attacks of Yor with weapons and all her body parts (because yes, as showed in several of the scans until now she use all her limbs in combat).

The first instance seems limited. Only the dog ran away, the guy stayed, but had to leave due to others closing in. The second instance doesn't even seem like fear manipulation, but him getting scared of her getting up close. Especially with her reputation he SHOULD be afraid. Helltaker tho? Doesn't know her and is pretty brave himself. Doesn't seem afraid to put his life on the line consistently. Heck, he's even fine with living a painful life.

Def sticking with Helltaker

The guy and Anya, her daugther that know that her mother Yor would never truly hurt her and who came to save her, were scared (Anya was even crying). And in the case of the assassin you can clearly see how his body began to tremble far before he even saw Yor, the dude was even especifically dumbfounded by that until he finally recognized how scary as **** was Yor and began to display far more problems facing her than in the exchange they had before.


I'm still firmly vote for Yor.

 

[KobsterHope07]

The guy and Anya, her daugther that know that her mother Yor would never truly hurt her, were scared (Anya was even crying). And in the case of the assassin you can clearly see how his body began to tremble far before he even saw Yor, the dude was even especifically dumbfounded by that until he finally recognized how scary as **** was Yor and began to display far more problems facing her than in the exchange they had before.

I will add to this that the guy in the second instance doesn’t know Yor at all or her reputation. He doesn’t address her as the Thorn Princess during their encounter. All he know about her is that she is some crackerjack bodyguard protecting the target he was hired to kill

 

[Cimafranca133]

Yor FRA

 

[LaserPrecision]

You know that that was specifically a no hit run in which the player had to practice a lot previously and learn the pattern before be able to do that, right? Literally in any game players can do no-hit runs with enough practice, that don't mean that canonically speaking the characters are never hit unless specified. The analytical prediction help in the case he can see the projectile yeah, but certainly don't mean that in a normal run the average player is never hit.

He is canonically one-shot by the chains. If he were hit, he would be dead. Yet there was no mention of him dying in their battle (And yes, they do clarify when he DOES die. He actually died a thousand times before the fight). So yes, he does dodge danmaku projectiles 50x faster than him without being tagged once.

There is also the fact that they were some big chains almost the size of his body which are pretty hard to not see, so against small projectiles and attacks hard to see (or that he directly can't) he isn't going to be able to use his analytical prediction the same way, and those are things that Yor certainly do in combat.

There's also far LESS projectiles to keep track of, and they're also moving VASTLY slower (50x slower at bare minimum)

He don't even have the crazy mobility needed to dodge all the attacks of Yor with weapons and all her body parts (because yes, as showed in several of the scans until now she use all her limbs in combat).

He doesn't need crazy mobility. Simple weaving, ducking, or sliding is good enough. You don't need to be some super acrobatic ninja to dodge all her attacks. What he's dodged is definitely far harder to evade than anything Yor can dish out at equalized speeds.

The guy and Anya, her daugther that know that her mother Yor would never truly hurt her and who came to save her, were scared (Anya was even crying).

Anya has shown to be scared of her numerous times by simply reading her mind. She's scared of her quite often. And again, the guy standing there wanting to attack her didn't even bother running away in fear. Only the dog.

And in the case of the assassin you can clearly see how his body began to tremble far before he even saw Yor, the dude was even especifically dumbfounded by that until he finally recognized how scary as **** was Yor and began to display far more problems facing her than in the exchange they had before.

It looked like only after he saw her that he got scared, not before.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I will add to this that the guy in the second instance doesn’t know Yor at all or her reputation. He doesn’t address her as the Thorn Princess during their encounter. All he know about her is that she is some crackerjack bodyguard protecting the target he was hired to kill

Fair enough. Still seems limited in application and looked more like he was afraid because she had gotten in close.

 

[Doggo]

Can I know where it states the chains move 50x faster than him?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

He is canonically one-shot by the chains. If he were hit, he would be dead. Yet there was no mention of him dying in their battle (And yes, they do clarify when he DOES die. He actually died a thousand times before the fight). So yes, he does dodge danmaku projectiles 50x faster than him without being tagged once.

Searching in youtube it seems like he can get hit without dying though or the fight instantly ending.

So you are saying that despite his analytical prediction he have be hit before and died a thousand times, so why is that he suddenly would be dodging everything that Yor do when she is absurdly far more skilled that every character in his verse combined? At range I could still believe that he can dodge, but at cqc? Absolutely no unless he have feats showing that he have crazy dodging feats in cqc.

There's also far LESS projectiles to keep track of, and they're also moving VASTLY slower (50x slower at bare minimum)

They are small projectiles harder to see/perceive that the big chains, Yor would also be able to throw them at a considerably closer distance and while mixing cqc with it. Also, Yor projectiles are like 11x faster so they aren't exactly slow .

He doesn't need crazy mobility. Simple weaving, ducking, or sliding is good enough. You don't need to be some super acrobatic ninja to dodge all her attacks. What he's dodged is definitely far harder to evade than anything Yor can dish out at equalized speeds.

Be honest, you opened most of the scans I send or the ones in her profile? Because they clearly show how crazy agile Yor fighting style is and that to dodge said things you need a lot of mobility, she attack at angles that people can't see with parts of her body (or projectiles) that the opponent don't expect and while they are focused in something else. In her case to dodge all her attacks as you claim Helltaker will do then you certainly need ninja acrobatics, and they probably would need to be at least comparable or superior to Loid acrobatics.

And now that I mentioned Loid I remembered how is true that he also have analytical prediction (along with an information analysis and calculation ability far above Helltaker) so even with analytical prediction Helltaker is probably ******.

Anya has shown to be scared of her numerous times by simply reading her mind. She's scared of her quite often. And again, the guy standing there wanting to attack her didn't even bother running away in fear. Only the dog.

It looked like only after he saw her that he got scared, not before.

This time she didn't read her mind and instead was showing relief about how Yor came to save her. The guy didn't thought in trying to do anything to her, instead his only thought was trying to escape with the dog (or without it after see how he resisted).

I'm beginning to doubt we are seeing the same image because it was very clearly show how his body was trembling before he saw Yor (he even showed a ? for not underestanding what was happening) and how after see her face he ******* his pants.

Fair enough. Still seems limited in application and looked more like he was afraid because she had gotten in close.

That isn't the case at all but whatever.


The arguments are already made so people will just vote the side that convinced them more.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Searching in youtube it seems like he can get hit without dying though or the fight instantly ending.

In the game. As you said earlier, it's gameplay. In cutscenes, the chains are shown to instantly kill him. It's why he's not City Block level. Otherwise he would be.

So you are saying that despite his analytical prediction he have be hit before and died a thousand times, so why is that he suddenly would be dodging everything that Yor do when she is absurdly far more skilled that every character in his verse combined? At range I could still believe that he can dodge, but at cqc? Absolutely no unless he have feats showing that he have crazy dodging feats in cqc.

He was tortured to death a 1000 times after being caught off guard as he was about to leave hell by a chain that was summoned around him with no way to dodge. So yes, he was hit. Worst case, the opponent had analytical prediction negation or smth

If he was shown dodging hundreds of projectiles from EVERY direction around him 50x faster than him, it is not at all unbelievable to assume he can dodge kicks and punches. In fact, I think it's complete downplay to assume he can't dodge more obvious attacks that are equal in speed to him and very few in number.

They are small projectiles harder to see/perceive that the big chains, Yor would also be able to throw them at a considerably closer distance and while mixing cqc with it. Also, Yor projectiles are like 11x faster so they aren't exactly slow .

Harder to see than large chains sure. But far less numerous and sporatic/random like danmaku chains and also not 50x faster than Helltaker like the chains he dodged were. Which makes up for the advantage the projectiles she has. Thus it's not hard at all to believe he can evade them via his analytical prediction.

Be honest, you opened most of the scans I send or the ones in her profile? Because they clearly show how crazy agile Yor fighting style is and that to dodge said things you need a lot of mobility, she attack at angles that people can't see with parts of her body (or projectiles) that the opponent don't expect and while they are focused in something else. In her case to dodge all her attacks as you claim Helltaker will do then you certainly need ninja acrobatics, and they probably would need to be at least comparable or superior to Loid acrobatics.

I only looked at the ones you sent. But I did look at the scans on her profile months back for her skill. Took a while tho.

Anyway, I have a hard time believing her attacks are harder to dodge than danmaku giant chains coming from every single direction at 50x your own speed (Instant blitzing speed) while double tasking other things on TOP of that.

I also made it clear earlier before he had a big AP advantage that eventually Yor would be able to tag him. I just don't think she could tag him more reliably than vice verca.

And now that I mentioned Loid I remembered how is true that he also have analytical prediction (along with an information analysis and calculation ability far above Helltaker) so even with analytical prediction Helltaker is probably ******.

Has Loid been shown to analytically predict projectiles rapidly coming at him from every direction at 50x his own speed while double tasking trying to live on something else completely different? If so, then sure, she can def get around it. Assuming she negged his.

This time she didn't read her mind and instead was showing relief about how Yor came to save her. The guy didn't thought in trying to do anything to her, instead his only thought was trying to escape with the dog (or without it after see how he resisted).

I mean, the guy didn't seem like he planned to attack and was going to let the dog do the work to begin with. I can buy into her have maybe minor fear manip, but that's all it looks like to me. It doesn't seem like she has some passive aura that instantly makes people lose their will to fight out of pure fear. I think we can at least agree with that.

I'm beginning to doubt we are seeing the same image because it was very clearly show how his body was trembling before he saw Yor (he even showed a ? for not underestanding what was happening) and how after see her face he ******* his pants.

Mmmm, I guess I can see it. But it didn't seem to hinder his fighting capabilities at all. He was still able to swing at her pretty easily. The fear really seemed to fully kick in once he saw her tho.


To summarize the points:

"Yor's projectiles are smaller and thus would be harder to dodge due to how hard they are to see"

Yes, that is very much true. However, they also lack a lot that the chains had that would still allow Helltaker to dodge them reliably. Such as the chains being 50x faster than Helltaker, them also heading towards him from every direction danmaku style while ALSO double tasking not falling off the the conveyor belt or into the spikes of death.

Basically

Yor's projectile advantages: Being smaller and thus harder to see

Judgement's chains advantages: Far faster, far FAR more numerous (Can be summoned in mass quantities), and targeting The Helltaker WHILE he's also running for his life on the Sin Machine

I'd argue Judgement's chains are far harder to dodge than Yor's CQC capabilities AND projectiles due to how much they had going for her when she was fighting The Helltaker.

"Yor has fear manipulation"

I suppose, but it doesn't seem to be anything game ending. It seems to affect less sentient life such as dogs more than grown adults as shown when she scared a dog away, and said dogs trainer still stood there, only running after seeing people at the end of the block. Also caused a guy to twitch a little, tho was still able to fight (tho outmatched by Yor obviously).

"Yor is more skilled"

Yep. I kinda cover why that isn't a super big deal tho. His analytical prediction would be good for evading a lot of her attacks (not EVERY attack). On top of this, he also has an advantage in MOST stats, so getting in close isn't even the best idea. One hit alone could probably cripple her, let alone multiple. I think he also has greater LS, so if Helltaker for some reason opted to grab her, he could quickly dispatch of her that way. Though I think he'd opt for kicking and punching and maybe throwing the opponent if we go by the official twitter comics.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Can I know where it states the chains move 50x faster than him?

Its on Judgement's profile. Her chains move at supersonic speeds as shown in a calculation. The Helltaker moves at Superhuman speeds as calculated on his page. He can only dodge he chains by predicting where they go in advance (The chains move across the entire screen in 1 frame. He only moves a small distance in SEVERAL frames, so yes, it's impossible to dodge unless you use the indicators of where the chains will appear in gameplay).

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's not exactly 50x faster tho

He's calc'd to move at 23.38 m/s. Judgements chains are 1,221.6 m/s

1,221.6/23.38 = 52.249x difference

Eh, was close enough.

 

[azontr]

I'm voting Helltaker.

I've seen no convincing argument as to how Yor can reliably hit him barring "lol skill" or "lol acrobatics". Meanwhile, his analytical prediction has allowed him to dodge attacks MUCH faster than himself and that are MUCH more numerous than anything Yor can dish out.