Yu-Gi-Oh!: fixing Yubel Scaling + some additions

[Zencha9]

1-this is not an excuse when other translations translated the scene accurately
2-i know he used exodia when he fought the bandits but show me when he says that exodia is born from his heart because when he wanted to summon exodia he was talking to the key. also all the priest + Akhenamkhanen used the millennium items to summon their KAs so i highly doubt that those KAs are born from them
3-we are literally shown diabound getting sealed and his portrait being on the tablet this isn't up for debate a KA can have more than one tablet to say otherwise is literally headcanon

 

[SomebodyData]

1. It's not an excuse, I'm just pointing out you're assuming a translation error due to your own misunderstanding of how another language works. Also what other translations?
2. Again, it's his backstory. He used Exodia to battle an incoming army (not bandits, not sure where that came from) and afterwards sealed Exodia. It isn't like the other users, where they took other Kas and placed them into tablets to be used later.
3. We literally see that not working, showing its not possible. You're using your own headcanon to go against occam's razor here. Is it more likely:
   1. Kas can't be sealed in two tablets > Therefore the reason Seto's tablet failed is that Diabound already had a tablet
   2. Or Kas can be sealed in two tablets > Diabound has an unexplained resistance, that apparently even the Gods lack?
      

 

[Zencha9]

1- it's not my misunderstanding of how another language works when ********* unironically had better translation and translated it in the exact same way as i said
2-in the backstory he still used the millennium key to summon him. now prove it's his KA

3-what do you mean ? he got sealed for a brief bit and then he got out of the tablet how am i using my headcanon when it happened ??? you're the one using "likely" without any proof of it being so you're assuming that a KA can't have 2 tablets when it's never said to be the case
1- we literally see diabound get sealed and his portrait appearing on the tablet meaning that he was sealed succesfully and then he breaks out seto doesn't say that the seal failed or anything similar and bakura outright says it's useless on diabound you're assuming the seal failed with no basis
2-what are on about about ? apperantly resistance scales because they're both KA? diabound's resistance doesn't scale to the gods

 

[SomebodyData]

1. Again, you haven't proven it's a fallacious translation?
2. He hadn't sealed Exodia until after the battle. That alone shows its his ka, as they need to seal other people's kas in order to use them.
3. Did you consider the possibility that it being sealed temporarily (lit a couple of seconds) before breaking out doesn't prove that kas can be sealed in two tablets? Or that it only lasted a couple of seconds because it was already sealed elsewhere?
4. That fact that it broke is literally the seal breaking- Bakura says its useless because it is useless - on an already sealed Ka.
5. I'm saying that Diabound having resistance is completely your interpretation, and wouldn't even make sense for Diabound to have some weird resistance but the Gods, even with their divine hierarchy, not. Unless of course the divine hierarchy is card mechanics only.

 

[Zencha9]

1-how did i not prove that their translation is not accurate when other site translated the same clip better than them? do you want me to bring some scans ?
2-that doesn't mean anything the gods are sealed does that mean that they came from someone's heart ? you have to prove that it was his KA. sealing exodia before or after does not matter. also there are alot of things that contradicts KAs being summonable by tablets only
3-yes i consider that a KA can have 2 tablets because diabound was sealed for 16 seconds and because there's absolutely nothing that suggest that diabound broke the seal because he already has a tablet
4-prove that because it' already has a tablet it cannot be sealed. and if diabound's portrait wasn't in the tablet that seto sealed diabound in and if diabound just appeared behind bakura without breaking the tablet i would absolutely be on board with the "diabound already has a tablet" reasoning but as of right now the showings say otherise
5-bakura says otherwise. we have no idea how the gods's tablets came to be or where they came from so using them is out of the question it's like how diabound has a tablet even tho all the millennium items are in egypt

 

[SomebodyData]

1. You proved that ********* has a different translation- not that it was better than the CR one. If you want to prove it, you'd need an actual translator.
2. I don't think you understand- in order for the Millennium Item users to summon a Ka that does not belong to them, they need to seal it first. This is a basic principle in season 5. Exodia being sealed after the army attack but still used by Shimon before, completely proves this. We have no idea where the Gods came from, so that isn't a counterpoint.
3. Other than no other Kas having multiple tablets, ofc.
4. How does not breaking the tablet in the process prove either side??
5. ...The village where Diabound was sealed was the same where the Millennium Items was born...

 

[Zencha9]

1-i did prove in the other thread that they removed "okratsu" in the CR translation meanwhile ********* has it
2-ok then that literally disproves that it's his KA why would he use the millennium item to summon his own KA ?
3-not really it just means that they think that it's uncessary for a KA to have more than 1 tablet
4-if the reason is because diabound has a tablet already then the seal itself wouldn't have worked and y know seal him completely for 16 seconds staright
5- i know but bakura did not have any of the Millennium Items

 

[SomebodyData]

1. Again, all you did was show that ********* was an alternative translation, when CR just has "okratsu" applied to another sentence earlier.
2. All of them need a Millennium Item or equivalent to summon a sealed Ka; Exodia, now sealed, isn't an exception.
3. That's headcanon
4. You make it sound like 16 seconds matter- the point is that it failed as Diabound was already sealed.
5. Diabound was formed from the rage of the victims used to create the Millennium Items, sealing their souls as offerings. Bakura only gained access to Diabound after he was the sole survivor of the massacre.

 

[Zencha9]

1-i did prove that they outright remove "okratsu" from the translation and made the "white dragon is her BA" thing legitmate even tho it was speculation on aknadin's part no matter how you look at it it's bad translation there's also the whole "gain defense power" crap when shimon summons exodia that doesn't even make sense in context
2-that still doesn't prove that it's shimon's KA.
3-not really like i said diabound fully had 2 tablets when he was sealed and he was sealed successfully so a KA can have 2 tablets unless something contradicts it
4-yes i see 16 seconds as long time for being sealed. prove how it was failed due to diabound being already sealed
5- that still doesn't answer my question

 

[SomebodyData]

1. I already pointed out okratsu was still in the translation, just used in another sentence. I don't know how to find a Yu-Gi-Oh episode on *********, so I can't confirm "Gain defensive power" doesn't also exist there.
2. Because I was answering your counterargument? The main argument, that being Exodia was used by Shimon before being sealed, is safe because of it.
3. He was not sealed successfully, if he was, then he wouldn't have broken out. This is just like Pokemon- they may stay in the Pokeball for a couple of seconds but the capture isn't truly complete for a while.
4. It failed because Diabound broke through after only 16 seconds- I'm not sure how you can side-step that.
5. I'm not sure how it doesn't, Diabound was sealed in the village through the creation of the Millennium Items, as it required the souls of the villagers to be sealed (Which became Diabound). Bakura then stole the previous Pharaoh's disk thus allowing him to summon Diabound whenever he wanted. It's not that difficult.

 

[Overlord775]

ocram's razor

what requires less assumptions:

1. that it's the same character but in a different location since it: Looks the same, it's called the same, it's threated the same and has the same mechanics

2. It's a different character despite none of the characters or the commentator pointing out it's not the same despite both them and the viewers (as in the previous season we were reminded of how Yugi obliterate'd Kaiba in their first duel.) full well knowing what Exodia is and the fact it makes completly no sense for there to be two of it lore-wise

?

also, the argument of it being a different entit because Exodia was sealed his spirit can't be elsewhere is complete bullshit, as through the entire serie we see people summoning monsters that were bounded to stone tablets, so the only logical assuption is that they aren't just trapped in there forever, also we saw numerous times monsters in the spirit world that should have been in tablets

 

[Zencha9]

oh forgot this thing existed anyways
1-you did ? i forgot but can you say it again. i was saying that using CR translations doesn't make any sense in that context. why is shimon gaining defense power by summoning exodia ?
2-still doesn't prove that it's his KA though
3-prove it because you saying he was not sealed successfully is pure headcanon that was not mentioned nor implied in the show
4-like i said bakura mentioned that it is useless on diabound he didn't mentioned the seal not working. so again prove that the seal failed because it wasn't mentioned nor implied that the seal failed
5-the Millennium Items were created after the slaughter . also you know how far is Kul Elna from Egypt right ?

 

[SomebodyData]

Overlord The entire point of alt. dimension characters is that they are similar to their original counterpart in some degree, occam's razor completely changes when you include that simple fact. It'd be like saying Trunks and Future Trunks are the same character.

You're missing the point here, DM Exodia's Spirit is sealed in the stone tablets on Earth. GX Exodia legit comes from an alternative dimension.

Zencha

1. I thought it was referencing Exodia's status as the legendary defender of Egypt.
2. Has there ever been a point when one of the Pharaoh's counsel could summon another person's ka before sealing it in a stone tablet? I'm pretty sure they have to seal it first, especially considering how often that's happened.
3. He literally broke out of it a couple of seconds later- at this point this is just semantics on whether it counts if breaking out counts as unsuccessful sealing.
4. I think the fact that he called sealing Diabound useless is evidence of the sealing not working.
5. The items were created because of the slaughter, their rage trapped and turning into Diabound.
   Don't think the village was ever stated to be far from Egypt, especially considering Kul Elna is an Egyptian name and is part of the Kingdom of Egypt, which wasn't very expansionist during those times.

 

[Overlord775]

Overlord The entire point of alt. dimension characters is that they are similar to their original counterpart in some degree, occam's razor completely changes when you include that simple fact. It'd be like saying Trunks and Future Trunks are the same character.

You're missing the point here, DM Exodia's Spirit is sealed in the stone tablets on Earth. GX Exodia legit comes from an alternative dimension.

except that isn't just an alt. dimension, it's one of the 11 dimensions that make up the spirit world just like Neo Space, aka it wouldn't make any sense at all that it is an alternate Exodia as it isn't a full parralel reality

DM monsters that have stone tablets can be seen in the spirit world. Also, first nothing says GX Exodia originates from the alternate dimension, and second nothing says that DM Exodia doesn't come from it either

 

[Zencha9]

You're missing the point here, DM Exodia's Spirit is sealed in the stone tablets on Earth. GX Exodia legit comes from an alternative dimension.

literally false. i explained this multiple times, you have no proof of him being originating from the said dimension and the door thing is from the spell
1-still a pretty weird way of saying of it if it said "defend"or something like it would still make a little bit of sense
2-not necessarily the bandits aknadin tortured didn't have a tablet the Ka aknadin used to kill kisara doesn't have a tablet, and i fail to see how this answers my question
3-it's not semantics when you have no proof of it being unsuccessful sealing
4-you can interpret that way sure. but you have no evidence for your interpretation to be more accurate
5-i know diabound was created from their hatred but that still doesn't explain much well it is far enough for a fully grown adult to die from hunger while returning to Egypt

 

[SomebodyData]

Overlord

Well, assuming we treat BBT as canon, we already know that alternative versions of the same monster do exist. As Dark Magician Girl (Yugi's) is clearly the apprentice of the Dark Magician, but the Dark Magician Girl of Season 4 (Spirit World) is shown to not be connected to him and is instead the Guardian of the Dragons. And to further drive that point, Dark Magician Girl (Yugi's) was fighting alongside Yugi while the Spirit World version watched from the outside. Let's not even mention Kaibaman (an alternative version of Kaiba but as a monster) or two Dark Sages existing (One was Dark Magician when he was young, the other being Torunka).

GX Exodia is shown coming from an alt. dimension and DM Exodia's spirit is caught within the stone tablets.

Zencha

Adrian's entire character arc started with him getting Exodia from the third alt. dimension, what on Earth are you talking about?

2- It fails because you're deflecting my answer: I replied by pointing out they can't use the kas of other people before sealing their kas, as Exodia had not been sealed until later and therefore would have to be Shimon's. Your examples have people using their own kas.
3- It broke literally seconds later, that's an unsuccessful sealing.
4- How do you interpret "useless on Diabound" other than it being useless on Diabound?
5- I agree, but what is stated is what I'm using as a point.
Yeah, I guess? The Kingdom of Egypt (and most kingdoms for that matter) aren't something that anybody can just completely travel through with ease, much less within the Old World and a desert.

 

[Zencha9]

wanted to say that dark magician girl wasn't a guardian she just existed in that world and just explained some stuff
and DS Torunka and DS Dark Magician have some differences in desgin. (DS=dark sage)
would like to know which episode did dark magician fight alongside yugi and and watch them in the spirit world at the same time

Adrian's entire character arc started with him getting Exodia from the third alt. dimension, what on Earth are you talking about?

except for the fact that you don't have any proof of exodia originating from that dimension, and you keep bushing it as a fact that he's from an alt dimension
2-it's their KA cool then . and my point was, the fact that Shimon uses the millennium key indicates that it's not his KA
3-you keep saying that because diabound broke from the seal in seconds it means that it's unsuccessful sealing but you still have no proof of it being unsuccessful no statemt no indication nothing. and btw diabound manualy broke the seal the seal didn't break by itself and if you want to give proof im more than happy to do so
4-i interpret it as the seal doesn't work on diabound, not that the seal has fault or the seal being unsuccessful
5-wait how i know diabound was formed but that doesn't answer the question about how the tablet was formed

 

[SomebodyData]

None of that really changes the fact they're alternative versions.
Also remembered that Season 5 Dark Magician Girl is another counterpart, as she lacks any relationship with Dark Magician and was purely Mana's Ka.
Spirit World DMG was watching over them the whole time, which would include the 3 appearances of DMG and her fusions.

For context, have you watched GX? This was a major plot point so it seems kinda weird that you keep pushing it aside as if you need prove, like asking me to prove Jaden has Winged Kuriboh or something. In case you haven't watched it, here is the episode. GX Exodia is shown from the third alt. dimension.
2- ?? If Shimon had Exodia before Exodia was sealed, then the same applies to him. Why are you separating them from the same circumstances? The item is only used to summon him after he had been sealed across five tablets.
3- That's why I'm pointing out this is semantics, especially considering you have nothing behind your point whereas we already know that Diabound had been sealed successfully before.
4- Except, again, we know Diabound has been sealed successfully before.
5- I don't know either, all we know is that he's sealed in the tablet. The origins of the tablet don't matter here.

 

[Overlord775]

Overlord

Well, assuming we treat BBT as canon, we already know that alternative versions of the same monster do exist. As Dark Magician Girl (Yugi's) is clearly the apprentice of the Dark Magician, but the Dark Magician Girl of Season 4 (Spirit World) is shown to not be connected to him and is instead the Guardian of the Dragons.

Headcanon, nothing states she's not the apprentice of him and her being the guardian of the dragon doesn't mean the other can't be a thing too

And to further drive that point, Dark Magician Girl (Yugi's) was fighting alongside Yugi while the Spirit World version watched from the outside.

No, we are stated that they are the same, as Dark Magician Girl (Character) stated she was fighting along Yugi/Yami all along

Let's not even mention Kaibaman (an alternative version of Kaiba but as a monster)

Kaiba appears in a dream of Jaiden, so he doesn't even exist

or two Dark Sages existing (One was Dark Magician when he was young, the other being Torunka).

GX Exodia is shown coming from an alt. dimension and DM Exodia's spirit is caught within the stone tablets.

It seem very more like to me that Dark Sage was retconned to be Torunka, beside Dark Sage/Dark Magician is not a named character, but Exodia IS a named character, so it would be like you saying that there are 2 Athems

GX Exodia is shown to be trappen in a dimension of the spirit world, NOTHING at all states he specifically come from there so it's headcanon on your part, and DM comes from the spirit world like other spirit monsters. Also, we litterally see Kuriboh's spirit moving around since season 1 and in episode 40 we have seen that he has a stone tablet, so the duel spirits aren't locked inside the tablets.

 

[Zencha9]

it does change things, we know that diffrent types of monsters exists like yugi's DM and arcana's DM but we don't know if they are alternative if you know what i mean
yes she was mana's Ka but they became the same entity after death
episode ?

yes i watched GX,it's simple you claimed that exodia is from that alt dimension i asked you about proof and you still didn't give any and just because exodia got summoned in that alt dimension doesn't mean that he originated from that alt dimension
2-because we have no direct proof of exodia being shimon's KA it's as ez as that and we have no proof of shimon sealing exodia after the battle that's why i im iffy on all of this
3-way to completely disregard all of my points fine i'll say it one more time . the fact that diabound's portrait appeared on the tablet for 16 seconds indicates that the seal was successful the fact that bakura says that it's useless on diabound indicates that the seal does not work on diabound the fact that the seal didn't break by itself means that the seal wasn't unsuccessful, the fact that it lasted 16 seconds until bakura orderds diabound to break from the seal means that the seal was successful and means that diabound would've been still been sealed if bakura didn't order him to do so , your whole point is it's already sealed and that's it
4-it doesn't matter diabound still got sealed successfully by P kaiba
5- so why did you debate about it if the origins of his tablet was unknown?

 

[Zencha9]

wait you think the spirits are trapped within the tablets?

 

[SomebodyData]

Overlord

The fact that Dark Magician doesn't appear and Dark Magician Girl is the head of explaining the Dragons instead goes against you. Not to mention, Season 5 Dark Magician Girl isn't the apprentice of the Dark Magician anyways, so you could replace Season 4 DMG with Season 5 and still get the same results.

Link? I find that hard to believe since DMG would then know Yami's real name.

Kaiba exists.

It's your headcanon that Exodia GX isn't from the third dimension. Your argument is the equivalent of "Well nothing specifically states Jaden is from Earth, so he isn't from Earth", especially considering the third dimension is where some of the strongest monsters supposedly come from.

I doubt it, they could have easily just made a new card if that was the case, considering Konami would love an excuse to create a card.

Kuriboh or Winged Kuriboh? Can't say I remember a stone tablet in episode 40 of either GX or DM. Regardless, I think you're confusing what I'm saying, DM Exodia's spirit is clearly trapped within the 5 tablets as stated by Shimon and GX Exodia's is clearly trapped within the third dimension. The latter also tries to get out, but fails until Adrian broke him out. Spirit Partners don't seem to be as easily restricted.

Zencha

It's literally the same thing in this context; it'd still prove my point even if it wasn't.

He got summoned from the alternative dimension. GX Exodia was sealed within it, as the link showed.

2 Shimon stated he sealed Exodia after seeing his power as it vanquished an army in a single night (18:00 ish), so the sealing was after Shimon used it. Not to mention, Shimon lacks his disk to summon others' kas.

3 I already pointed out that 16 seconds doesn't prove anything when it breaks anyways and my Pokeball comparison. Not to mention, your argument extremely relies on A to B to A logic.

4 It literally disproves Diabound resists sealing.

5 Because, as I said, the origins of the tablet don't matter. The fact that Diabound is sealed is the only thing that matters.

...Yeah?

 

[Zencha9]

your points are not ordered which kinda confuses me

 

[SomebodyData]

added numbers

 

[Zencha9]

if you can prove that they're alternative sure go ahead, but you didn't give me the episode for when DMG watching thingy
yeah but we never know how he was sealed and if he even originates from that dimension
1-shimon said that because of his great power he sealed him, but he never said that it's after the battle with the army
2-sure 16 secs don't mean much of their own but the fact that he was sealed for 16 seconds without even budging except for when bakura orders him to so means that diabound would've been still sealed if he did nothing and it proves that the seal was successful
3-how exactly ?
4-this whole point was about was diabound sealed...
5-if you believe a tablet traps a KA inside it then it breaks some plot points like the dark magician one on top of my head
i see it as a way to summon monsters because it doesn't make much sense for dark magician to train in the afterlife while trapped in a tablet lol
and also the translations are done shimon does refer to exodia as a protector of the city
but he does say and "But now the time has come to unbind its shackles!" so the seal is the tablets

 

[SomebodyData]

If you're planning to focus on the alternative semantics; let me stress once again, it doesn't even have to be alternative universe forms of characters to prove my point- the fact that any alternative version exists alone shows there is variation. DMG appears rather often in that arc, here's a list.

Again, it doesn't matter. We know DM Exodia is sealed in Egypt, whereas GX Exodia is sealed an alt. dimension, that alone prevents them from being the same character.

1- Well for one he immediately mentions this after mentioning the battle, and secondly he doesn't even have his disk when he summoned it, which is what they used to summon others' kas after they're sealed.
2- That seems like a stretch.
3- Because Diabound being sealed proves Diabound can't resist?
4- Yes? He got sealed... in the village and later by Seto but the latter failed whereas the former didn't.
5- Exodia breaks his shackles a few seconds when Shimon told him, they were chains. (I don't think the tablets are even shown damaged?)

Actually, the latter point just reminded me that Pegasus got the inspiration for cards from on the tablets, meaning we know for a fact that the DM Exodia is still sealed within the tablets to the present day.

 

[Zencha9]

wasn't you whole point is that they're from an alt universe thus they don't scale ?, this doesn't help much because i want the exact episode do you remeber who yugi was dueling with at the time?

you argument revolves around shimon's seal and exodia being sealed in as the portector of the city where we know that spirits can be summoned if if they have tablets so that debunks your argument that they're 2 different entities
1-still doesn't specify that he sealed right after,yeah none of them used duel disk when the city was attacked i fail to see how that supports your point
2-is it really? how so
3-it was sealing magic and when diabound tried he broke the sealing magic
4-my whole point is about how we don't know how diabound was sealed and how we shouldn't use that as a point when we have no idea what happened
5-just talked about the translator about this and we both had an agreement that the seal is the 5 tablets not the chains really

 

[SomebodyData]

Exodia GX specifically is, other versions of monsters exist in-universe too which just helps with the argument. Can't say I remember other than DMG the Dragon Knight was in the duel, though DMG (Spirit World) is shown to be within the Spirt World at all times whereas Yugi's is clearly on the field on any of those occasions. Another thing is that Spirit World monsters are depicted as having an aura when they're on Earth, whereas Yugi's isn't (Pardon the AMV).

I don't want to strawman you here, so Imma ask, are you arguing because Exodia DM can be summoned from his seal, Exodia GX can still be the same Exodia; even though they're both sealed in different locations?

1. The disks are specifically for monsters that aren't their own. That's why the monsters they did summon were only the ones directly connected to them.
2. You're arguing a sealing worked because it lasted 16 seconds, that seems like a stretch, especially when that sealing is supposed to last thousands of years.
3. Yet, he was sealed earlier (tablet in the village) and can't break out of that, needing Bakura to summon it to get his revenge instead.
4. My point is that it doesn't matter- the fact that he was sealed is issue enough.
5. This also seems like a bit unneeded- whether his seal is the tablets or the chains don't really matter- the fact that Pegasus managed to discover Exodia and therefore his tablets mean the seal persists even to the present.

 

[Zencha9]

you still can't prove exodia originates from that an alt universe , then don't use it as point unless you know the full context or the episode number , the aura really ? the legendary dragons when summoned didn't have the same aura even though they were shown to be in same worlds as the other spirits and we have no idea what that aura means and what created it so all of it is speculation

yeah pretty much i think exodia having a tablet is unnecessary because tablets don't seal spirits forever
1-i know but but the millennium items are also used the exact same way when used for summoning, also characters also get hurt when using duel disk to summon monster so they are connected

(this is just one top of my head)
2-i argued that sealing worked because diabound did nothing for 16 seconds and when he tried he broke the tablet
3-my point was is the fact that it's unknown to who and how he was sealed so it shouldn't be mentioned but you keep ignoring that so fine i guess , can you prove all of that ?
4-why doesn't it matter ? when we have no idea what or how diabound was sealed so why use him as a point ?
5-but that's not how tablets work just because you have a tablet doesn't mean you're sealed forever referring back to my DM point

 

[SomebodyData]

He is everything but confirmed outright, we don't need verbal confirmation when he is sealed within an entirely different location and appears from said alt. dimension. This is the equivalent of saying we can't confirm Future Trunks is from a different timeline, just because it's never stated outright (With the most being that he's from the future) with Z.

Yeah, the aura, literally every single one of the fairy creatures / DMG had it. The only exception, as you mentioned, were the Dragons, but we're not talking about the Dragons here (Not to mention they're Earthlings anyways). Another comparative issue is that Spirt World DMG can communicate extensively with the cast, whereas Yugi's DMG can't.

They don't seal them forever but Pegasus managed to copy Exodia from his tablets so we know Exodia's at the very least stood the test of time.
1 - Bakura actually did it once without an item (When he first confronted them in Egypt with the Ka of the former Pharaoh), proving the more important part is the disk.
2 - I get that, but it'd be like saying you did an essay when you only finished the first sentence or again the Pokemon comparsion. To say the sealing worked would be innaccurate.
3 - I know. Again, this isn't anything but a red herring.
4 - Because we know he was sealed in a tablet, that's all that's relevant. Unless you want to argue he only has resistance to specifically sealing from the items or something.
5 - Mahad training in the afterlife before becoming the Dark Magician doesn't prove anything. Even if it did, Exodia GX was in an alternative dimension, not the afterlife.

 

[Zencha9]

imm gonna go over this later i have some IRL stuff but i hope that you're joking when you compare spirits to future trunks please tell me it's a joke

 

[SomebodyData]

I would say it's a joke, but the future trunks part isn't talking about the spirits? Spirits are the next sentences below that. You should probably read a point before you call it a joke lol

 

[Zencha9]

i know that, we absolutely need confirmation because spirits are wonky and can appear at different worlds in the spirit world,
key mace is one of the examples that appear on the top of my head

also they're not really aura they're just barriers like the ones human had inside the orichalcos god they just have different colors, also it doesn't matter the legendary dragons are spirits and even if they are Earthlings spirits or whatever many duel spirits are Earthlings too, what do you mean by that exactly?
rainbow dragon and the crystal beasts are the exact same as exodia yet they existed in different worlds while still having one tablet
1-i didn't deny that duel disks summons can summon a KA besides one's own KA what's your point ?
2-don't get what you mean, also pretty sure pokemon are physical and their spirits don't go around into other worlds so that comparison is false
3-cool, so you concede on this point?
4-the same could be said to the gods and crystal beasts/rainbow dragon if we don't know how they're sealed then why even bring them up
5-it proves that spirits aren't sealed forever while they have tablets same with crystal beasts/rainbow dragon they appear as in a different worlds while their tablet still exist in modern day(GX)

 

[SomebodyData]

There's a rather large difference between spirits appearing in other worlds occasionally and a being who is explicitly trapped within one (Both Exodias in this case)

That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the spirit world creatures had it on Earth where regular duel spirits didn't. Well, what I mean is that duel spirits (Or specifically born from human hearts) are different than the Spirit World spirits.
I don't believe the crystal beasts had a tablet and Rainbow Dragon's shtick was about making the card to summon him.
1- So you concede on the idea that Shimon's Exodia is his original ka?
2- I think you're starting to confuse the points- this was just about the sealing of Diabound and whether he should get resistance.
3- No, what red herring means is that it's a distraction from the main point. How Diabound was sealed is irrelevant to the fact that he got sealed as it being used to disprove resistance.
4- ^ Same response here.
5- Again, I acknowledge that. However, Exodia's tablet in particular still worked as Pegasus managed to make cards about him. Hell, most of DM and Rainbow Dragon are proof of that too.

 

[Zencha9]

my points about crystal beasts/rainbow dragon/DM was about how spirits aren't trapped in the tablets so no exodia is not sealed in 2 places simultaneously also can you remind me where exodia's tablet is shown in GX ? my memory is kinda fuzzy and this whole debate heavily relies on that

DMG and DM are from earth DM didn't have the pink barrier stuff meanwhile DMG has one it's also really vauge like it appears once in the entire series(DM-5D's)
1-no lol i also said that the millennium items can be used to summon other KAs beside one's own
2-i don't think i'm confusing points but eh i just wanted you to elaborate further because i didn't understand your first point
3-it is not red herring because we don't know anything about how he's sealed he may have let himself be sealed because of sensing bakura's hate
4-again same as above
5- i don't get this point tbh because rainbow dragon is the same pegasus was able to create his card ,my point is that the souls of the crystal beasts/rainbow dragon are in the tablet but they are still able to communicate with johan and they live in a completly different world while still having a tablet

 

[SomebodyData]

Crystal Beasts aren't in a tablet / Rainbow Dragon needed a card to manifest, it was an entire subplot for Jesse & Pegasus / DM goes against you. I agree, Exodia hasn't been sealed in 2 places simultaneously because there are two different Exodias. Exodia GX isn't sealed in a tablet, but sealed behind a gate in GX. Heck, even the name of the episode is "he who breaks the seal, martin"; it's just denial to say Exodia GX isn't clearly sealed in the third alt. dimension, especially since Echo had to die just so he Adrian can take Exodia's spirit back to Earth.

That's because DMG (Spirit World) is from the Spirit World and DMG (Mana's Ka / Yugi's Card) isn't.
1- And I pointed out that in all those occasions the disk was present. It was explicitly needed for example, when Marik summoned the Ka of the late Pharaoh.
2- So then you concede on the original #2 point, not #1?
3- While we don't know how Diabound was sealed, we do know that Bakura survived but in fear, his hate only came later so like I said it doesn't matter. (Not to mention, kid Bakura can't seal Diabound so that's already off the table).
4- I'm dropping this one since its basically merged with #3. (Less to read)
4- My point is that Rainbow Dragon needed Pegasus to first make the card then he could manifest in the real world. Not to mention, Rainbow Dragon isn't actually sealed. The Roman tablet only depicts the rainbow dragon, which Caesar just planned to place the gemstones he found within. Pegasus explains this in ep 127.

 

[Zencha9]

literally contradicted by the scan i posted above the souls of crystals beasts are in the tablet this isn't up for debate also even if he needed a card to manifest how does that contradict anything i said ?. how does that go against me ?. i know exodia was sealed behind the gate i'm asking about the tablet becuase with your interpretation the the tablet needs to exist in GX in order for 2 exodias to exist

you need to prove that because yugi refers to her as the same DMG as the one in spirits world

1-when bakura attacked he didn't have any millennium item
2-no i need you to be more clear
3-fear can also be mixed with hate but whatever it's not really important,which goes back to my original point that it doesn't make sense for diabound to be sealed because when the millennium item were completed zorc killed aknadin's men except for one and in the same day they got back to egypt only for one of his men to die
4-ye
5-rainbow dragon manifesting doesn't matter to my point , how is he not sealed ? can you prove that?, checked the episode didn't see any of that get mentioned

 

[SomebodyData]

Sorry, I don't see the scans of the Crystal Beasts in a tablet? If Rainbow Dragon needs to be summoned, it counters your point that can freely leave the tablet on Earth (Ignoring Rainbow Dragon isn't sealed in one of the Egyptian tablets anyways but a Roman lithograph). Well, A- again, we know they exist in the modern era since Pegasus made cards after Exodia B- Exodia GX is in a completely different place / sealed in an alt. dimension, even if Exodia DM was freed.

... To which DMG (DM) has no reaction, something especially different considering DMG (DM) has shown the ability to communicate and react but acts completely differently (Like in GX).
1- Which proves my point, since he only needed the disk.
2- I mean, I stated it was regarding sealing diabound, not sure what else to say.
3- Yeah but this goes back to my point: it doesn't matter how he was sealed. It only matters that he is sealed.
4- It isn't? Well its the episode where they go into the backstory of rainbow dragon and julius caesar, though they call it a roman lithograph in 127 at the very least.

 

[Zencha9]

it says their souls in tablet and it says it multiple times later on i can give more scans if you want, my point wasn't about earth nor manifestation it was about monsters existing in other worlds despite having tablets , we have no idea if the tablets still exists in GX and if DM exodia is freed what to say that he isn't the same exodia in GX

this is you against the narrative why would atem have flashback about a different DMG that didn't participate in what happened in said flashback when looking at DMG and why would yugi remind atem about the promise he made with DMG in spirit world and tell him not to tribute her if she wasn't the same DMG that he made a promise with him it doesn't make any sense narratively also yugi wasn't really trying to communicate with DMG he's just remembering his promise also she does react when she gets tributed and she reacts multiple times in duels but i'm too lazy to list all of them right now maybe i will if you really want proof

1-no it does not because most KAs are inferior to diabound bakura says that mutliple times throughout the story and he only uses more KAs for either more options or when he's getting trouble
2-well you can elaborate more ? or reword your point because like i said i don't understand what were trying to say
3-and i am saying that it doesn't make sense in story for diabound to be sealed so it should be dismissed (also the reason for why it doesn't make sense is not related to diabnound having resistance or not)
4-no it is being referred to as a tablet in that ep

 

[SomebodyData]

I see where the problem is coming from- when I asked for when it was stated they were sealed in a tablet, I mean ala the type of tablets seen in Season 5 DM; not the jewels that encrust Caesar's lithograph. Exodia was released in Season 5, which took place thousands of years before the main events of DM- so by extension he would have to still be sealed.

Narratively speaking, she's a stand-in for the DMG (Spirit World) version. I think it should have been most evident by the fact that this DMG can't talk to Yugi, despite Spirit World DMG clearly can...

1- ...That has nothing to do with Bakura having the ability to summon other kas. I just needed to prove he only needs the disk.
2- Okay: To say that the sealing on Diabound worked is like saying you completed an essay by just writing the first sentence- it isn't finished.
3- What? Just because it doesn't make sense (with your opinion) or isn't being elaborated on (the actual issue) doesn't mean it should be ignored.
4- Strange, most references I found called it a lithograph. Though regardless, it's not like it changes much. Julius Caesar didn't have a Millennium Item so he didn't seal them within, anyways.