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Yu-Gi-Oh GX the 12 dimensions

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Not really. Even if he proves they are all in the same universe, it wouldn't disprove them getting an Tier 1 Upgrade due to the new translations. And if it doesn't disprove it, we have an Tier 2 Low end, Tier 1 high end.
 
The only thing that I think should be talked about is the Scaling Chain and who actively scales to the Cosmology of the Spirit World. I still think that shouldn't be delayed, because once we discuss this, after we figure out who scales to what, we can apply whatever needs to be applied in a timely manner.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
The only thing that I think should be talked about is the Scaling Chain and who actively scales to the Cosmology of the Spirit World. I still think that shouldn't be delayed, because once we discuss this, after we figure out who scales to what, we can apply whatever needs to be applied in a timely manner.
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Makes sense. Off the top of my head, I'd guess Season 4 Judai/Jaden, Yubel, and Nightshroud. Maaaybe Light of Destruction Plasma and Light of Destruction Saio/Sartorisu as well?
 
GoldenGangStar5 said:
Makes sense. Off the top of my head, I'd guess Season 4 Judai/Jaden, Yubel, and Nightshroud. Maaaybe Light of Destruction Plasma and Light of Destruction Saio/Sartorisu as well?
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Nah LoD doesn't scale and neither does Nightsroud. None of them have any feats close to that scale or interacted with Super Polymerization.
 
SagaTheLegend said:
Tier 1 wtf?
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You are now afflicted with the curse too .....hahaha 5D curse
tumblr_n40k08gu1g1smcbm7o1_500.gif

Your battle with Baldur will be legendary,
images_35.jpeg


Bye, i need to go to sleep now.😪😴
 
I mentioned it before. But the Gentle Darkness and the Light of Destruction literally encompass the whole Cosmollgy. They recreated it several times, the Light was confident of after it being destroyed it could be remade in its own image, Nightshroud scales > Light of Destruction since he is explicitly stated to be stronger than it by Satorious.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I mentioned it before. But the Gentle Darkness and the Light of Destruction literally encompass the whole Cosmollgy. They recreated it several times, the Light was confident of after it being destroyed it could be remade in its own image, Nightshroud scales > Light of Destruction since he is explicitly stated to be stronger than it by Satorious.
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Universe was stated to have created from nothing, then divided from into darknesd and light, gentle darkness only created life. LoD has never destroyed a single universe or anything on screen and has failed to destroy individual planets many times across the entirety of Season 2, it has poor piss Destructive Capacity.

Nightsroud would be just stronger than the LoD inside Sartorius which was featless.
 
Sorry Saga, but I vehemently disagree with your views.

So, I am going to ignore the fact that LoD said he would survive the Universe's destruction, remake creation in his own image, stated both by knowledgeable sources to be constantly fighting and destroying the universe, gives Destiny Hero enough power to do it, gave Satorious the power to affect the entire Cosmology, stated they save the Universe. Stated as soon as they destroyed the Earth he would destroy the rest of the Cosmology.

Literally the only thing stopping the LoD is the fact it's confronting Judai and confronting the GD on both fronts, so he can't just destroy the planet with Judai and the GD there, and the fact the Spirits have been stopping him years before Judai came about as their Savior. He focused on the satellites as once Judai was defeated, the GD would be defeated, and he'd be fee to do whatever he wanted to do.
 
Guys, can we not derail this thread from what it was supposed to be about? The topics already mixing in tier 1 talk, anything else should wait or be given its own thread to discuss.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Sorry Saga, but I vehemently disagree with your views.

So, I am going to ignore the fact that LoD said he would survive the Universe's destruction, remake creation in his own image, stated both by knowledgeable sources to be constantly fighting and destroying the universe, gives Destiny Hero enough power to do it, gave Satorious the power to affect the entire Cosmology, stated they save the Universe. Stated as soon as they destroyed the Earth he would destroy the rest of the Cosmology.

Literally the only thing stopping the LoD is the fact it's confronting Judai and confronting the GD on both fronts, so he can't just destroy the planet with Judai and the GD there, and the fact the Spirits have been stopping him years before Judai came about as their Savior. He focused on the satellites as once Judai was defeated, the GD would be defeated, and he'd be fee to do whatever he wanted to do.
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It was never stated to have survived the destruction of the universe, it was only said that the universe is a cycle of destruction of creation, of which he never stated he was a cause or part of, so there's no proof to say he survived that destruction. It is just a statement that we have no confirmation either too, since other sources stated that nothing or "complete darkness" was what the universe was prior to this. That's also the fact that the LoD that porsesses Sartorious originates from a white hole which originated after the universe was created.

The feats you are mentioning literally don't exist

Sartorius never affected the entire cosmology, he only stated that his Light Barrier was supposedly affecting the entire universe which was never proven as we only saw it affecting spirits close to the duel.
Destiny Plasma never had the power to destroy the universe, its only feats are literally stealing the souls of humans and setting fire on a duel arena.
His threaten to destroy the Earth and the Universe was empty boasting. He was plotting the entire season to get keys to a advanced military satellite to destroy the Earth, a plot point everyone that debates Season 2 seems to ignore for the sole purpose of highball, in fact the duel he had with Jaden was a dispute for the keys to the SOLA satellite, which was stated to be crucial for his destruction of earth, many many times throught the series.
Other sources say he was going to destroy the universe via increase of entropy by causing disorder which is what we saw him do the entire season so there's that.
 
Okay I will stop. Lets leave it to another thread. I know it will be a great discussion on why Neos and all his forms are Universal and Composite Duel Monsters is only Large Planet LvL.
 
I will stop as well. I'll provide scans the next time, but I still very much disagree with that logic.

Luckily Yugioh DM Season 3 introduces the fact that an Individual was literally threatening the Spirit World and the Human World with their presence. Unfortunately even IF we all assume Judai scales to the Cosmology, he caps weaker than that individual by a significant margin.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I will stop as well. I'll provide scans the next time, but I still very much disagree with that logic.

Luckily Yugioh DM Season 3 introduces the fact that an Individual was literally threatening the Spirit World and the Human World with their presence. Unfortunately even IF we all assume Judai scales to the Cosmology, he caps weaker than that individual by a significant margin.
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I'm assuming you're talking about Zorc? or Holactie?
 
Apparently, you can't actually take screenshots on Crunchyroll. I'll have to stay with my current methodology of just pointing out the point in time when these sequences appear.

Episode 62: Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin reveals that Neo Space is one of Jupiter's moons (7:00). Then Jaden finds the satellite Kaiba sent out to space years ago proving it's the same Jupiter (10:15). He refers to Neo Space as a universe twice as well (21:00) and spatially divided. This proves that in GX, universes can also refer to small pocket dimensions that exist in the universe, but are sealed off dimensionally. Similar to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for example.

However, while I disagree, other users have argued that perhaps the definition of the universe changed in the show, or that Neo Space is unique. To rebuttal this, I point back to Episode 178.

Episode 178: It should also be mentioned that the World of Darkness briefly eclipses the Sun. In order to have eclipsed the sun while at that distance but not tear the Earth apart, it would have to be comparable to the moon at best. This is important, as the World is stated to be able to consume the other dimensions very quickly if left unchecked in Episode 160, meaning the other dimensions really are that small. And that's the highball, the tentacles of Darkness Seed, which you can see after 5:10ish for the rest of the duel are about the size of Jaden's opponent. Based on the fact that the World of Darkness is a celestial body, the other universes are probably smaller.

However, Zencha pointed out a lack of timeframe, which while irrelevant to the size of a post-consumption World of Darkness, can be argued to suggest that maybe it took forever to consume a 3-A universe (Low 2-C would be impossible to eat finitely), however:

Episode 160: Continuing off my previous point, by episode 160 the world of Darkness had already begun consuming the Waking the Dragons universe (5:58). This means that the timeframe is between 18 episodes from 160 to 178 (Darkness' Appearance). This matters as the next episode involve Duel Academy students having a party to celebrate before they leave (Plot Synopsis) and graduation occurring right after Darkness is defeated. Given this, the timeframe at maximum is a few weeks.

However, that's not all. Honest continues, pointing out the duel monster cards connect the Duel Spirit World with ours; with corrupted cards being gateways to the World of Darkness (6:40). This means that most of the time between 178 and 160 was more likely Darkness waiting to come to our world rather than actually being occupied with destroying another. Given this, the timeframe is likely tiny; especially considering the Waking the Dragons dimension couldn't get help despite showing that ability before.

Zencha

Idk what the comments above are talking about it being imaginary tbh, I just assumed they got caught up in trying to explain away Neo Space. We know it's real given, you know, that's where the entire Neos stuff from Jaden's deck comes from.

Dimensional travel doesn't really work when you're half the universe, not to mention it would mean the other side would immediately win in the time its gone.
 
Strym

To quote what I mentioned before about the translations:

"Twelve-dimensioned universe" Would indicate the 12 dimensions literally are in the universe, which is what Neo Space showed is possible (Even if you don't believe its one of the dimensions itself).

"i'll fill all the twelve universes that exists in different dimensions with me love for you, Judai."

If its geometrical, this would upgrade Yubel to tier 1 but is completely contradicted by the fact that regular humans can also live in these dimensions. If its spatial, it would entail the universes really are smaller than 'dimensions' ie actual universes. But it would give Yubel 2-C range, I guess.

Based on the fact that a Tier 1 universe doesn't make sense with the fact that the entirety of Duel Academy can exist in the Desert Dimension (Which wouldn't even have a desert), it is more consistent with what I mentioned.
 
SomebodyData said:
Strym

To quote what I mentioned before about the translations:

"Twelve-dimensioned universe" Would indicate the 12 dimensions literally are in the universe, which is what Neo Space showed is possible (Even if you don't believe its one of the dimensions itself).

"i'll fill all the twelve universes that exists in different dimensions with me love for you, Judai."

If its geometrical, this would upgrade Yubel to tier 1 but is completely contradicted by the fact that regular humans can also live in these dimensions. If its spatial, it would entail the universes really are smaller than 'dimensions' ie actual universes. But it would give Yubel 2-C range, I guess.

Based on the fact that a Tier 1 universe doesn't make sense with the fact that the entirety of Duel Academy can exist in the Desert Dimension (Which wouldn't even have a desert), it is more consistent with what I mentioned.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that make a thing like a 2-C Sized timeline like DBS ones? Tier 1 for them being "a space-time having more space-times in itself" was already proposed and rejected because that's just a bigger 4D. It should be the case even here.
 
Nah, that was rejected for DBS. It doesn't change anything unless its cosmology is like that of DBS where the universe and other dimensions are physically together (Ie like how heaven is physically on top the universe) in which case it's a higher 3-A. But you guys have been arguing against me the entire time on that point, and plus the size of the dimensions are really brought into question (Even if you disagree with the Neo Space comparison, the Waking the Dragons dimension and World of Darkness have been shown to be celestial at best) regardless.
 
SomebodyData said:
Nah, that was rejected for DBS. It doesn't change anything unless its cosmology is like that of DBS where the universe and other dimensions are physically together (Ie like how heaven is physically on top the universe) in which case it's a higher 3-A. But you guys have been arguing against me the entire time on that point, and plus the size of the dimensions are really brought into question (Even if you disagree with the Neo Space comparison, the Waking the Dragons dimension and World of Darkness have been shown to be celestial at best) regardless.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the 12 universes inside the timeline actually.
 
I didn't want to participate in this anymore, but I thought @SomebodyData's argument was very good to help the course of the thread. Especially the following line;

Episode 178: It should also be mentioned that the World of Darkness briefly eclipses the Sun. In order to have eclipsed the sun while at that distance but not tear the Earth apart, it would have to be comparable to the moon at best. This is important, as the World is stated to be able to consume the other dimensions very quickly if left unchecked in Episode 160, meaning the other dimensions really are that small. And that's the highball, the tentacles of Darkness Seed, which you can see after 5:10ish for the rest of the duel are about the size of Jaden's opponent. Based on the fact that the World of Darkness is a celestial body, the other universes are probably smaller.
Click to expand...
It did not cover the sun, it was actually a layer over the earth as we can see here in episode 177.

However note that this layer there does not refer to the original world/universe of the Darkness, in fact it is shown that his "universe" was a formless void of darkness that preceded the creation of the universe, before the big bang. Starting at 6:00 minutes of the episode 177 he starts to explain that the first card was born out of darkness, and then it created the universe, and for the act of that card all the stars and planets began as well.

If we are going to scale the world/universe of darkness, it is valid to remember that it is not that layer created by the heart of the human collective unconscious, but the original was big enough to support the current universe. So now we have that all the other 12 universes are at least the size of the universe of Darkness.
 
It is also worth noticing that this becomes more solid with the map that @Zencha9 presented of Dr. Zweinstein, where he showed the difference of each dimension/universe.

So, with the world of darkness being outside the universe, we have that each of the other worlds is outside the actual universe, and is separated by the darkness that precedes the act of creation of the first card, as it is said by Honest in episode 160.

by the way, this thread would have already been solved if it wasn't for the wrong translations by crunchy or other sites using sekai wrongly
 
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Alonik

That's an interesting point there.

However, if the dimensions are separated by darkness, that would require it to be in our universe as Darkness composes half of the universe. I mentioned this earlier with Zencha, but this is consistent with what I mentioned while answering Zencha's inquiry of how Darkness can consume universes while physically being in the universe. Answer being, the universes are inside the GX universe.

Also this formless void, I'll be referring it to Layer of Darkness to differentiate between the original one, but since its size is equal to Earth and directly stated to mirror it. Wouldn't this prove the other universes are 5-B? Especially since, as you linked his world is a mirror the universe, yet the size of Earth. Even if you want to differentiate the Layer from the original World, its the Layer that has been destroying universes which would prove that the other universes are 5-B at most.

It'll upgrade Yubel to 5-A Environmental Destruction with Super Poly and Layer of Darkness to 5-B durability with 5-B AP over time (Although since Zencha argued it's over time destruction, the AP for Darkness would be lower).
 
SomebodyData said:
A timeline wouldn't (At least, not in terms of 2-D size; being a 3-D physically large universe wouldn't have an effect on how big a 4-D universe is).
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Pretty sure that's a little inconsistency which doesen't really matter here, since all the others are equally big as I can see.
 
Somebody

the great problem is that the use of 世界 is coming in as planet in the wrong sentences and as universe as well. So they're giving the illusion that we have dimensional planets or planets being called universes, as for example him calling the earth as universe, but at the same time and minutes before that he uses it to refer to the whole existence of the universe. It's a limited dialect confusion, because if they used different kanjis or the translator had at least separated world (planet) as world (planet) and universe as universe, then we wouldn't be having this problem.

What I recommend would be a deep analysis through all the quotes about sekai or uchu, to separate planet and universe, and remove the confusion that the official translation made.
 
SomebodyData said:
Episode 62: Neo-Spacian Aqua Dolphin reveals that Neo Space is one of Jupiter's moons (7:00). Then Jaden finds the satellite Kaiba sent out to space years ago proving it's the same Jupiter (10:15). He refers to Neo Space as a universe twice as well (21:00) and spatially divided. This proves that in GX, universes can also refer to small pocket dimensions that exist in the universe, but are sealed off dimensionally. Similar to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for example.
Click to expand...
That's not literal since a regular satellite was sent to neo space which contradicts them being spatially separated
And the main problem with me is that neo space literally contradicts everything we know about the 12 dimensions and that is
1- they are parallel worlds
2-they run on MWI
3-they are universal in size
4-they are spatially separated
Neo space doesn't fill any of these so i fail to see how the idea should be even entertained
SomebodyData said:
Episode 178: It should also be mentioned that the World of Darkness briefly eclipses the Sun. In order to have eclipsed the sun while at that distance but not tear the Earth apart, it would have to be comparable to the moon at best. This is important, as the World is stated to be able to consume the other dimensions very quickly if left unchecked in Episode 160, meaning the other dimensions really are that small. And that's the highball, the tentacles of Darkness Seed, which you can see after 5:10ish for the rest of the duel are about the size of Jaden's opponent. Based on the fact that the World of Darkness is a celestial body, the other universes are probably smaller.
Click to expand...
I fail to see how any of this matters since we don't know where darkness's consumtion begins the normal universe is also different Because of the darkness in people's hearts can either amp or weaken him so it shouldnt be used as an example and like i said darkness begins small then devours universes
SomebodyData said:
However, Zencha pointed out a lack of timeframe, which while irrelevant to the size of a post-consumption World of Darkness, can be argued to suggest that maybe it took forever to consume a 3-A universe (Low 2-C would be impossible to eat finitely), however:
Click to expand...
[[Headcanon]]
SomebodyData said:
However, that's not all. Honest continues, pointing out the duel monster cards connect the Duel Spirit World with ours; with corrupted cards being gateways to the World of Darkness (6:40). This means that most of the time between 178 and 160 was more likely Darkness waiting to come to our world rather than actually being occupied with destroying another. Given this, the timeframe is likely tiny; especially considering the Waking the Dragons dimension couldn't get help despite showing that ability before.
Click to expand...
Is there any reason why to take this literally? since honest described humans empowering spirit and vice versa the same thus it should be relatively the same in this context since like i said emotions can either amp or nerf darkness
SomebodyData said:
Dimensional travel doesn't really work when you're half the universe, not to mention it would mean the other side would immediately win in the time its gone.
Click to expand...
What? They don't need to leave the universe to reach alt dimensions
 
Alonik said:
@SomebodyData I just checked here on crunchyroll, but at this point it might just be flowery language, it would be for example Zod telling Superman "the Earthly universe with the Kryptonian universe".

I wanted to know something related to Yubel's statement, not something that can be flowery language between Judai and the Aqua Dolphin, which is what I will argue next;

Here is episode 62 on Raw, and what Aqua-Dolphin says to Judai is this:




Here what Neo Aqua is talking about doesn't even refer to the planet where they crashed with Kaiba's capsule, but rather the imaginary universe that the child Judai longed for when he was just a child watching people duel, and which gave him the motivations to create the neos universe. In this way, when the cards became alive, the link between Judai's heart and that imaginary universe he longed for was created between him and the new spirits. That is just a flowery passage.

Of course that's not all that changes, the kanji used in that sentence is 宇宙 where the etymology is very manageable according to the context, it can be used in outer space even universe in its actual size, but it was not the universe in its actual size, but only the relationship between the Judai and the cards. So regardless of whether it's Neo-Space, or Neo-Universe he mentioned it's going to have a single meaning and totally different from Yubel's Statements.



Given that said let's move to Yubel's statements.




Basically the difference here is the use of dimensional with the previous kanji, being that 次元宇宙 and the last one being 別の次元.

  • We go with a 12-dimensional layered universe, which would still give us a Low 2-C, but depending on the size of each one of these bulks, it could lead to an even higher tier
  • Assume that these are spatially separated extradimensions, as for example the realms of Yggdrasil in the MCU, where the context is very similar to the one we are dealing with, portals for pocket and/or universally extradimensions through the Einstein-Rosen bridge i.e. a wormhole.
Something I almost forgot is that in episode 153 Yubel says the following line;

I think it is quite noticeable the spatiality of these extradimensions being separated that are even called universe in another context than the flowery one between jaden and his cards.
Click to expand...

Btw this was the post about neo space being imaginary
 
Alonik said:
What I recommend would be a deep analysis through all the quotes about sekai or uchu, to separate planet and universe, and remove the confusion that the official translation made
Click to expand...
I don't it needs to be looked that far since neo space doesn't fit any of the requirements about the 12 dimensions and should be ignored
 
Also i still fail to see how the universe is connected to the 12 dimensions
Like when yubel was going to fuse the 12 dimensions it was shown that there's still space between them in the radar and it also wouldn't make sense with yubel's motivation
Unless you're saying the universe encompess the main universe and the 12 dimensions which is kinda weird
 
StrymULTRA said:
Shouldn't that make a thing like a 2-C Sized timeline like DBS ones? Tier 1 for them being "a space-time having more space-times in itself" was already proposed and rejected because that's just a bigger 4D. It should be the case even here.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it's only tier 1 like that if the higher-timeline is strictly separate from the lower one, and is strictly a "higher" time flow.
 
I should thank you again for your amazing work! And yeah the number of time the word "uchuu" (universe in Japanese) is pronounced is way to high to be a coincidence and translation is correct: I heard the subbed version and when they say "uchuu" subtitle says "universe".

Also yeah in term of Hax for Yubel do you think we should talk about it here or in another thread? For example I noticed "image projection" was removed form Yubel's profile and replaced by "Astral projection" (and yeah it's true Yubel can definitely do Astral projection and I stupidly forgot about that ^^). But yeah we should add "image projection" once again: after she defeated Adrian Geck (AKA Amon Garam in the subbed version), when Judai and others arrived, Yubel was able to show images of the duel he/she did a few minutes ago. So yeah he/she definitely has "image projection" powers ^^

Also yeah there are a few other things like clairvoyance (when possessing that human body, Yubel was able to know what happened when he/she summoned monsters against Judai's team, seeing them even if they were kilometers and kilometers away and even when they were inside the submarine in the desert. So since Yubel can see not only from far distances but also behind matter it's not just some sort of enhanced vision: it's clear clairvoyance).

Ah also Zencha funny you mention that space between dimensions in the radar because that is explained in season 4: that space between dimensions is the world of darkness as explained here (on this pic one of the dimension is engulfed by the world of darkness).

142f4f502731425.png


And by the way, Darkness himself (last enemy of season 4) should also have his profile considering how OP his powers are!
 
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Yeah i agree with you but yubel stuff needs it's own thread im mainly doing the 12 dimensions being universes thing
Also darkness does have a profile as seen here
vsbattles.fandom.com

Nightshroud

Nightshroud, known as Darkness in the Japanese version, is a malicious spirit and the progenitor of the World of Darkness in GX. He has the ability to possess humans and is partially responsible for the Abandoned Dorm incident. He briefly appears as a minor adversary in the first season and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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